Suitable QR head for 8x10 Deardorff

[Michael W]

I recently bought an 8x10 Deardorff & also picked up a sturdy Foba tripod from the seller. The tripod is the Alfae/Alfea type with a centre column. It has a two way tilt head, looks like this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/247458-REG/Foba_31_0118_ASMIA_Double_Pan_Tilt.html) but probably a slightly older model Asmia. It's a decent sturdy head however its not suitable for the Deardorff because one of the knobs controlling the tilt fouls on the bottom plate of the camera so that I can't turn it. Also it doesn't have a quick release plate so I have to carefully mount the camera on the head each time I use it, which is a pain. I might be able to add a quick release unit to the head however I've no idea which parts to get & received no response to a query I sent to Foba.

So now I'm thinking I'll just replace this head with a decent quick release ball head that will support the camera. One model that looks interesting is this Manfrotto 468MGRC4 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/368327-REG/Manfrotto_468MGRC4_468MGRC4_Magnesium_Hydrostatic_Ballhead.html) which has a large base plate. Wondering if anyone has experience with one of these on a Deardorff or similar camera & has any pro or con remarks. Also interested in other suggestions.

[Brian Ellis]

I've owned two 8x10 Deardorffs. I think you'll find it difficult to align the camera left-right and front-back with any degree of precision using a 12 lb camera on a ball head. I like ball heads for smaller formats but for 4x5 and up I prefer some version of a three-way head. The one I used and liked with my Deardorffs was the Bogen Manfrotto 3057. It weighs 4 lbs so it's no light-weight but it's solid as a rock and the QR plate is 4"x4". I don't think they're made any more but they show up on ebay pretty often. However, I have no experience with the head you mention, it looks interesting.

[Ari]

I have the same QR plate as Brian (4" x 4" hex), and a similar tripod head, the 3039.
It holds my 22lb 8x10 beautifully, and removing/putting the camera on the tripod is an easy, if delicate job.
It helps to have a solid, reliable 3-way head for these kinds of things.
You MUST stay away from ball heads when dealing with a monorail or a camera of substantial weight; get a 3-way head and everything will line up nicely.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

So now I'm thinking I'll just replace this head with a decent quick release ball head that will support the camera. One model that looks interesting is this Manfrotto 468MGRC4 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/368327-REG/Manfrotto_468MGRC4_468MGRC4_Magnesium_Hydrostatic_Ballhead.html) which has a large base plate. Wondering if anyone has experience with one of these on a Deardorff or similar camera & has any pro or con remarks. Also interested in other suggestions.

That is one heavy ballhead. There are much better ballheads available for less money that weigh less and are smoother to operate. I'd recommend looking for one with an ARCA-SWISS compatible quick release clamp. The Manfrotto uses a proprietary quick release. So, you are locked into a single style of plate from a single manufacturer. The ARCA-SWISS style quick release system is a defacto industry standard and hundreds of compatible plates are available from dozens of manufacturers. For example, for your 8x10 Deadorff, you could get something like this SunwayFoto DP-813 (http://www.sunwayfoto.com/html/products/201004/190.html). It's 80mm wide by 130mm long (about 3.1" x 5.1").

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

You MUST stay away from ball heads when dealing with a monorail or a camera of substantial weight; get a 3-way head and everything will line up nicely.

I disagree with that statement. It's a matter of personal preference, shooting style and other requirements. While many large format shooters prefer a 3-axis, or geared head, a good, properly adjusted ballhead has it's own advantages (smaller, lighter, with no long handles or levers to hit you in the back of the head or get caught on vegetation when you hike). I used an ARCA-SWISS B1 with my 7x17 monorail and preferred it for that particular camera over a much bigger, heavier Gitzo 1570M 3-axis head. With that particular camera, the ARCA-SWISS B1 with the friction preset set at maximum was smoother, sturdier, faster and easier to use than the much larger Gitzo 3-axis head. The OP specifically asked about ballheads. So, he must have some reason for that preference.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying a ballhead is THE best solution, in general, for an 8x10 Deardorff. It really is a matter of personal preference. I just objected to the statement "You MUST stay away from ball heads when dealing with a monorail or a camera of substantial weight" (especially the all-caps MUST). My 7x17 ARCA-SWISS based camera is a monorail that weighs about a pound more than the OP's 8x10 Deardorff. And, for that camera and this user, a ballhead was preferrable to a large 3-axis head. So, there are exceptions - and the OP specifically asked about ballheads.

Kerry

[mandoman7]

In my own experience, stability and ease of use take on more important roles with 8x10 as versus 4x5. It takes a pretty large commitment to go distances from the car with an 8x10. I have a lightweight set-up for the 4x5, with a carbon fiber tripod, etc. when I want to do some trekking.

But for my Deardorff I'm currently using a manfrotto 3058/57 (?) head (with a studex pro Gitzo, and others). I have had a slew of other bogen heads that never worked to my satisfaction, but this one has served well for many shoots. I like it better than my Gitzo 1348 or whatever, or my Ries head. With the large QR plate and nicely placed bubble levels, this manfrotto head is stable and quick, and not pricey either. Not a fan of the smaller ones though.

[mandoman7]

In my own experience, stability and ease of use take on more important roles with 8x10 as versus 4x5. It takes a pretty large commitment to go distances from the car with an 8x10. I have a lightweight set-up for the 4x5, with a carbon fiber tripod, etc.. But for my Deardorff I'm currently using a manfrotto 3058/57 (?) head (with studex pro Gitzo legs, and Ries legs). I have a slew of other bogen heads that never worked to my satisfaction, but this one has served well for many shoots. I like it better than my Gitzo 1348 or whatever, or my Ries head. With the large QR plate and nicely placed bubble levels, manfrotto head is stable and quick, and not pricey either.

[Bob Salomon]

A Linhof Profi 3 Universal Pan/Tilt Head will easily handle any camera up to about 25 pounds.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

A Linhof Profi 3 Universal Pan/Tilt Head will easily handle any camera up to about 25 pounds.

And, it's only $1962.50 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/31507-REG/Linhof_003669_Profi_3_Pan_Tilt_Head.html).

Kerry

[sanking]

I disagree with that statement. It's a matter of personal preference, shooting style and other requirements. While many large format shooters prefer a 3-axis, or geared head, a good, properly adjusted ballhead has it's own advantages (smaller, lighter, with no long handles or levers to hit you in the back of the head or get caught on vegetation when you hike).
Kerry


Almost everything about photography boils down to personal preference. My personal preference by far for view cameras is a 3-way pan level head compared to a ball head, and I have tried several of the good ball heads. No question but that the ball head has advantages in terms of weight and size, but it seems to me that a 3 way pan head, with good readable levels on all three axis, has almost all of the other advantages.

But I do prefer ball heads on MF cameras.

Sandy

[Daniel Stone]

one answer:

FLUID HEAD.

a good one makes life MUCH easier IMO. Super smooth, and with a QR plate, very quick in the field(or from the car)

watch ebay carefully, I just snagged one for $40 shipped

http://cgi.ebay.com/ITE-H50E-BROADCAST-VIDEO-FLUID-HEAD-W-2-ARMS-PERFECT-/180682041119?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a117d271f

-Dan

[Bob Salomon]

And, it's only $1962.50 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/31507-REG/Linhof_003669_Profi_3_Pan_Tilt_Head.html).

Kerry

Strange, the OP did not say anything about costs. Just needs. And that Foba tripod is also expensive. But then most things made in Germany and Switzerland are expensive, aren't they?

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Strange, the OP did not say anything about costs. Just needs. And that Foba tripod is also expensive. But then most things made in Germany and Switzerland are expensive, aren't they?

No he didn't, but he specifically asked about ballheads, in particular one that costs $329. Yet, you recommended a 3-axis head costing nearly 6x as much. I wonder why.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Almost everything about photography boils down to personal preference. My personal preference by far for view cameras is a 3-way pan level head compared to a ball head, and I have tried several of the good ball heads. No question but that the ball head has advantages in terms of weight and size, but it seems to me that a 3 way pan head, with good readable levels on all three axis, has almost all of the other advantages.

But I do prefer ball heads on MF cameras.

Sandy

Sandy,

I don't disagree with anything you wrote. However, the OP asked specifically about ballheads. He already has an expensive 3-axis head and doesn't like it. He could probably sell it to someone on this forum, buy a great new, top quality ballhead and still have money left over to buy some 8x10 film.

I also took exception with the statement that the OP MUST stay away from ballheads when using monorails or exceptionally heavy cameras. So, I cited a specific example. My 7x17 Franken-ARCA is a monorail that weighs more than the OP's 8x10 Deardorrf, and I found the ARCA-SWISS B1 ballhead vastly superior to a much bigger, much heavier Gitzo G1570 3-axis head. In this case, the ballhead wasn't just smaller and lighter, it was more stable and much easier to use -with that particular camera.

And, just for the record, while I found the ARCA-SWISS B1 superior for use with my 7x17 Franken-ARCA, I found the big Gitzo G1570 a better match for my 14x17 Canham. Better still, for both cameras was the ARCA-SWISS B2 - which is a 3-axis head that masquerades as a ballhead. But, it weighs as much as the big Gitzo. So, I ended up using the B1 with the relatively small 7x17.

That doesn't mean the B1 is the ideal head for the OP and his 8x10 Deardorff. Only he can decide that. I was just providing a different point of view that I thought was more inline with the OP's specific request. He specifically asked about ballheads, not 3-axis heads. There must be a reason he prefers ballheads and excluded 3-axis heads from his query.

Kerry

[Michael W]

Catching up with all the replies - I posted this at 2am just before I went to bed. Thanks to everyone for the responses - it does show there is no one correct answer. Also, I tried to word my question carefully so as to not mislead anyone but I can see that perhaps i could have done better. So, to clarify a little

I'm definitely not in the market for anything terribly expensive, eg Linhof. Although I do have an expensive Foba tripod and head, I got it for a decent price as I had bought the Deardorff from the same guy. He's a commercial photographer who has gone digital & has another Foba tripod so he was getting rid of a spare. My budget is $300 maximum for new or less for second hand.

Also, the reason I mentioned ball head is that's what I use for MF and 4x5, however I am not set on the head having to be a ball, happy to consider a 3 way. (Apologies to Kerry for that confusion.) In fact I like the look of the Bogen/Manfrotto 3057 that was mentioned here a couple of times. It looks quite compact & has a wide base plate. I'm slightly kicking myself as I saw one available here 2nd hand a couple of weeks ago but I wasn't yet committed to getting another head at that time. It seems the 3057 is no longer made - is there an updated version or do I have to find one second hand?

Anyway, I want a solid, reliable QR system that might sit on either a ball or 3 way head.

[Ari]

Sandy,

I don't disagree with anything you wrote. However, the OP asked specifically about ballheads. He already has an expensive 3-axis head and doesn't like it. He could probably sell it to someone on this forum, buy a great new, top quality ballhead and still have money left over to buy some 8x10 film.

I also took exception with the statement that the OP MUST stay away from ballheads when using monorails or exceptionally heavy cameras. So, I cited a specific example. My 7x17 Franken-ARCA is a monorail that weighs more than the OP's 8x10 Deardorrf, and I found the ARCA-SWISS B1 ballhead vastly superior to a much bigger, much heavier Gitzo G1570 3-axis head. In this case, the ballhead wasn't just smaller and lighter, it was more stable and much easier to use -with that particular camera.

And, just for the record, while I found the ARCA-SWISS B1 superior for use with my 7x17 Franken-ARCA, I found the big Gitzo G1570 a better match for my 14x17 Canham. Better still, for both cameras was the ARCA-SWISS B2 - which is a 3-axis head that masquerades as a ballhead. But, it weighs as much as the big Gitzo. So, I ended up using the B1 with the relatively small 7x17.

That doesn't mean the B1 is the ideal head for the OP and his 8x10 Deardorff. Only he can decide that. I was just providing a different point of view that I thought was more inline with the OP's specific request. He specifically asked about ballheads, not 3-axis heads. There must be a reason he prefers ballheads and excluded 3-axis heads from his query.

Kerry

Kerry,
You MUST understand that I was stressing for effect, and what MUST have sounded like a hard&fast rule (my fault) was only stated that way to warn the young man of the potential perils involved in using a ballhead on a heavy monorail.
I MUST remember to use a smiley for these kinds of things :)
Your point is well-taken, however, I'll stand by a modified version of my statement:
In general, you should not mate a ballhead with a heavy, or monorail, camera.
There are exceptions to this rule, but you might spend a lot of money discovering them.

[john biskupski]

Arca stuff is great for all the reasons given above, but if you want to use a QR system, I would advise against the Arca-style slide-in plates if using 8x10 and above. With a big camera like a Deardorff, you have physically difficulty seeing under the camera, it is near impossible to slide it in by touch alone, and it becomes almost a 2-man job to attach the camera. With a QR system, you ideally need a snap-in system like Manfrotto (Bogen) or Linhof. The Linhof 3663 pan/tilt head with QR works well like this for up to 5x7, you may need their bigger pro head for bigger cameras (much more expensive). I don't know the Manfrotto range. As you know, with the big pan/tilt heads, the usual procedure is to place the top plate in an upright position, hold the camera sideways so you can see the mounting hole, and screw in the head screw.

[Frank Petronio]

A two-axis head like the ones from Ries are traditionally the nicest heads for Deardorffs and the like for good reason. Not ideal for other cameras but then everything is a compromise.

Quick Releases quickly release your camera, they are often just as hard to mount as a simple screw with a flatbed camera. Buy a head with a good screw. Literally.

Mnafrotto stuff isn't made as well as Foba, it would be an awkward pairing....

[Michael W]

Updating this thread in case it's of any use to someone else looking for a suitable head for a large, heavy camera. I picked up a Bogen 3057 and have been using that for a few months. It came with the large square plate & a medium size hex plate. I use the 4" plate for the Deardorff and the system works well. It solved the problems I was having with the other head & now I have a camera/tripod system that works with no annoyances. Thanks again for the answers.

[cdholden]

Should you decide you want precision movements, the Bogen/Manfrotto 405 pairs nicely with your Deadorff V8. I had that combo on a set of 3036 legs. While I don't regret selling the legs, I would not be opposed to picking up another V8 or 405 some day.