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View Full Version : Any tips for setting up a Chamonix 4x5 quickly/painlessly?



engl
15-Jun-2011, 20:14
I got my Chamonix 4x5 recently. I've been taking a bunch of photos over the last two weeks and have found a lot to like about the camera.

However, I'm not entirely happy about how long it takes to set up and "zero out". It seems like the only real zero detent is back tilt. There are tabs supposed to keep front tilt at zero, but there is considerable play in this mechanism.

Anyway, tilt is the least of my concerns, since I'll be aligning this using bubble levels. The front shift is not really a problem either, one millimeter one way or the other does not matter. The problem is back and front swing.

Back swing could be aligned once and left in place, but since I sometimes use a 75mm lens I need to move the back standard forward. Doing this often introduces back swing since the position on the left and right rails can differ by millimeters.

Aligning it requires lining up dots, which is the same way the front is aligned. Doing this on both standards is not easy in the dark, as I've been finding out over the last week.

Does anyone have suggestions for speeding up setup of this camera? I could very well be missing something, as there is no manual included with the camera.

Edit: I realize this is an inexpensive camera designed around low weight, it is amazing with or without the problems described above.

tautatis
15-Jun-2011, 21:33
Use it frequently and you will get the hang of it.

T.

Kirk Gittings
15-Jun-2011, 21:49
Just practice. I use a Phillips-similar design. You should be able to anticipate what lens and filter you need and be framed, set up and metering in a couple of minutes.

Brian Ellis
15-Jun-2011, 22:32
I never photographed in complete darkness so I don't know about lining up the dots in the dark, I can see where that would be a problem. But working in light I didn't find the Chamonix any more time-consuming to set up than most other LF cameras I've owned. Some have been a little faster - Linhof Master Technika for example. Some have been a lot slower - Linhof Technikardan for example. But compared to other wood field cameras, I thought the Chamonix was about average. Like others have said, if you do it enough it should become second-nature.

engl
16-Jun-2011, 01:29
Thanks for the replies. I have probably been a bit spoiled by working with press and technical type cameras in the past (Crown Graphic, MPP Mk7) which set up very fast.

I find the Chamonix sets up quickly enough in the comfort and light of my home. In the dark, 10 stories high, in a cramped stairway on the side of a building, it took a quite a bit more time. The dots are hard to see. Also, since the front swings even when "locked down", I find that I want to confirm that it has stayed put while I've been adjusting tilt/rise. Easy enough at home, more difficult when forced to stand behind the camera in the dark :)

As I use the camera more I'm sure I'll get more comfortable with it.

Noah A
16-Jun-2011, 05:30
I was going to suggest trading it for a technical camera since frankly it sounds like a pain in the neck to work with, but since you're happy with the camera otherwise, I would say the best thing to do is practice. Sounds like you have it mastered in good conditions, so maybe practice in the dark or practice setting it up from behind the camera (as you may have to do in a tight spot).

Perhaps if you need to set up in a tight or awkward situation, you can set up and zero the camera beforehand and walk to the spot with the camera already set up?

Bob McCarthy
16-Jun-2011, 07:40
I too am one of the new owners from the last batch.

Up until now I've only owned metal cameras.

When I first got it, I immediately thought, this sure seems delicate. But after 3 shooting sessions, I'm starting to get the camera. It is a matter of practice.

Initial thoughts,

the camera is perfectly square. all the set points are perfect. This is not the case with most field cameras, metal excluded. Don't worry about detents and markings, use your bubbles. I can feel when the front end is square and dont really need the markings, if you practice, by feel will be close to square on the front, close enough anyway..

the camera is a carbon camera with wood trim, not really a wood camera. I'm very impressed with the latest design. I've been looking for a Phillips Compact II, being a built in USA kind of guy, but this camera is nicely done. I see the latest 8x10 model follows this pattern (a change from the design on Utube) so it may be where I go next.

Gotta figure out the dark cloth issue. I use a 5x7 blackjacket. it's overkill and I can get away with something smaller/lighter.


Best part, I use a photo rucksack and with the camera, 3 lenses (90/6.8, 135/5.6 (the old fuji W not the latest=tiny) and a Nik 200M), with 3 film holders, meter etc, etc. Everything I need......

it only weights = (drum roll) 14 lbs.

Wow

bob

lilmsmaggie
16-Jun-2011, 08:13
Thanks for the replies. I have probably been a bit spoiled by working with press and technical type cameras in the past (Crown Graphic, MPP Mk7) which set up very fast.

I find the Chamonix sets up quickly enough in the comfort and light of my home. In the dark, 10 stories high, in a cramped stairway on the side of a building, it took a quite a bit more time. The dots are hard to see. Also, since the front swings even when "locked down", I find that I want to confirm that it has stayed put while I've been adjusting tilt/rise. Easy enough at home, more difficult when forced to stand behind the camera in the dark :)

As I use the camera more I'm sure I'll get more comfortable with it.

I'm a relative newb to LF and the Chamonix 45n-2 is my first LF camera. I've been shooting now for about a year and I have no trouble setting up the camera quickly.

As Kirk and others suggest: Just practice.

In terms of shooting in the dark/low-light. Take a tip from amatuer astronomer's toolkit: Get yourself one of those mini-LED flashlights and do one of two things:

1: Purchase the LED flashlight with Red LED's, or
2. Use rubylith film over the original lens.

There are many LED's to choose from. This link may help you decide:

http://www.photonlight.com/pages/Photon-LED-Beam-Colors.html

Jeffrey Sipress
16-Jun-2011, 11:44
Swing? All you need to do is align the standard to be parallel to the frame with your thumbs before you tighten. It's rather easy.

Jim Galli
16-Jun-2011, 11:51
Nikon D3

Kuzano
16-Jun-2011, 12:06
Aligning it requires lining up dots, which is the same way the front is aligned. Doing this on both standards is not easy in the dark, as I've been finding out over the last week.

Go to REI...(camping outfitters) and get one of those little headband lights with the LED beams in them. Not much output, except for closeup. That would solve your dark problem. I use one to work on the insides of computers.

Jamie123
16-Jun-2011, 12:49
One thing I did in order to facilitate setting up was to add pencil markings on the side of the front rise/fall rail at the height of the tilt interlocks in zero position. That way I can quickly set up the camera up from behind.

Bob McCarthy
16-Jun-2011, 13:59
One thing I did in order to facilitate setting up was to add pencil markings on the side of the front rise/fall rail at the height of the tilt interlocks in zero position. That way I can quickly set up the camera up from behind.

Just raise the front so the top of the lens panel is in line with the vertical uprights. Depending on whether you have a center drilled or offset, of course. It will be close anyway.

bob

tautatis
16-Jun-2011, 17:20
I have own my Chamonix for exactly a year now. Between spring last year and early winter I shot almost 4 boxes of film (Efke and Adox). There were many reasons for that, but most important ones were:

1. Get used to a select film (Adox CHS 25)
2. Get used to movements and setting up the camera
3. I wanted to make sure that, at the end of summer when I taking a cross country road trip (New Mexico to Seattle via Glacial national Park), I had mastered or felt assured and comfortable with the film and camera.

I think it worked well.

#1&2 made me go to the same area every month and photograph the place. I think I got most interesting photographs during that exercise and got encouraged. This year I will be driving from LA to Seattle. I am looking forward and excited about it as my skills are a notch above last summer.

All what I can tell you is practice, practice, practice. There is no short cut. I personally do not like manuals - hard to dicern and poorly illustrated for someone to learn.

In short, AAA was not crazy when he linked photography to music!

Enjoy,

T

Louie Powell
16-Jun-2011, 17:21
The answer is - - - practice.

Ray Van Nes
16-Jun-2011, 17:25
If you are working in the dark or low light - how about using a headlamp? A littel petzal led unit which are inexpensive will do the job.

Frank Petronio
16-Jun-2011, 18:02
Just thinking, it is kind of goofy of them not to at least put on some reference marks to help out. You could always use some paint and do it yourself....

Bob McCarthy
16-Jun-2011, 20:46
Just thinking, it is kind of goofy of them not to at least put on some reference marks to help out. You could always use some paint and do it yourself....

There are reference marks, a pair on the base to align swing, and a pair on the base of the front standard to align shift.

Bob

Jamie123
17-Jun-2011, 00:16
Just raise the front so the top of the lens panel is in line with the vertical uprights. Depending on whether you have a center drilled or offset, of course. It will be close anyway.

bob

That's still about 8mm off from zero position which is not really close in my opinion.

engl
17-Jun-2011, 03:06
Thanks to all who have replied. The red LED idea is good, I'll look into getting one. I have used a strong white LED mini light before but as noted, they pretty quickly affect night vision. Using a 75mm lens at night, the GG is dark enough already :)

About squaring the front swing by feel, that works with my 240mm but not 125mm or 75mm as they mount in holes further back.

And of course, I'll keep practicing. I was out shooting again last night, setup still taking longer than I'd like, but it is getting smoother.

Noah:
Indeed I first considered going with a technical camera, more specifically the Wista 45VX/SP. I ended up going for the Chamonix for a number of reasons, including universal bellows, front fall and weight. I also considered the Shen Hao XPO, a camera I'd probably have looked at even closer today.

Noah A
17-Jun-2011, 05:34
...
Indeed I first considered going with a technical camera, more specifically the Wista 45VX/SP. I ended up going for the Chamonix for a number of reasons, including universal bellows, front fall and weight. I also considered the Shen Hao XPO, a camera I'd probably have looked at even closer today. ...

All good points. My problem with the Wista VX was getting enough front rise out of it without the camera body (the rear 'box' part) interfering with the bellows. Though I'm talking about extreme movements with large-coverage lenses. The lack of front fall was also annoying. My solution was a TK45S, but it's quite a bit heavier than your Chamonix.

I dislike wooden cameras but I was looking at the Chamonix for the reasons you mentioned. I was wondering if it would be possible to modify the camera to have some detents for the back swing and front shift/swing, but I never saw the camera in person so I don't know if it's possible or how complicated it would be.

Bob McCarthy
17-Jun-2011, 05:43
That's still about 8mm off from zero position which is not really close in my opinion.

If thats an issue for you, then my feeling is, your not using lenses with enough coverage. Unless your shooting your large format like a medium format. Ie. just aiming the camera at the subject.

My way is I square my camera up all nice and level. The approach is, what's on the ground glass is all that matters, what's 8mm, less than a quarter of an inch. Do you shoot Linhof offset boards, or center drilled? That will also impact your number.

Anyway, I never shoot with the GG perfectly centered, unless by accident. I always have some rise or fall dialed in, so the top alignment method is more than close enough.

Bob

Jamie123
18-Jun-2011, 15:32
If thats an issue for you, then my feeling is, your not using lenses with enough coverage. Unless your shooting your large format like a medium format. Ie. just aiming the camera at the subject.

My way is I square my camera up all nice and level. The approach is, what's on the ground glass is all that matters, what's 8mm, less than a quarter of an inch. Do you shoot Linhof offset boards, or center drilled? That will also impact your number.

Anyway, I never shoot with the GG perfectly centered, unless by accident. I always have some rise or fall dialed in, so the top alignment method is more than close enough.

Bob

Who said I'm having any issues? My lenses have plenty of coverage and I'm using center drilled boards. The point is that when I want to zero out the camera then obviously I don't want 8mm fall. I will decide what movements I want once I've looked at the ground glass with everything zeroed out. Adding some lines with a pencil is simple enough and I can now quickly get the front standard in zero position within a 0.5mm margin.