Advice on Speed Graphic

[psychoanalyst]

Hello,

I am facing a bit of dilemna so thought I'd seek your advice.

I recently made the foray into LF and purchased my first camera from the Adorama used department. It was advertised in "G" condition and I got the camera with a 135 mm Optar lens in Graphex shutter for $210.

I am fairly happy with the camera itself. It is a bit worn, but definitely usable. Don't know if the shutter speeds (focal plane and lens shutter) have been tested, but at least the focal plane shutter is operational at all speeds.

There are 2 issues that were not pointed out to me before I bought the item.

1. The Kalart rangefinder seems off to me. When the image on the ground glass is in focus, I can still see a split image through the rangefinder. I have the rangefinder manual and I think I can re-calibrate it.
2. 1/400, B and T speeds on the graphex shutter are not operational.

Adorama has given me the choice of sending it back at their cost (I love Adorama because they are great this way) and a full refund.

But I wonder if its something that I can fix? I have seen the Graphics on the auction site, but its near impossible to figure out in what condition they are in and besides, I have seen what look like good ones goes for way higher than what Adorama gave it to me for.

I don't really have too much money to spare and I still need to buy supplies for my tray development, a light meter and a focusing loupe.

I am hoping to hear your advice.

Thanks a lot!

Avi

[BarryS]

I think you did ok and I'd keep the camera. It's rare for old cameras not to have a couple of issues and yours aren't show-stoppers. The rangefinder can easily be adjusted and at some point, you can get the shutter cleaned, lubed and adjusted. It sounds like the price you paid was fair.

[Asher Kelman]

I think you did ok and I'd keep the camera. It's rare for old cameras not to have a couple of issues and yours aren't show-stoppers. The rangefinder can easily be adjusted and at some point, you can get the shutter cleaned, lubed and adjusted. It sounds like the price you paid was fair.


Barry,

Are there technicians who can service or even rebuild the shutters?

Asher

[BrianShaw]

I'm with Barry -- neither are show stoppers. In fact, both are somewhat to be expected.


The shutter(s) are old and who knows when last overhauled. I'd suggest having the between-the-lens shutter overhauled and you'll probably be good for a long, long time. The focal plane shutter is less useful in my opinion and I would not mes with it.


The reangefinder may have been set up for another lens. First, though, verify that the ground glass and fresnel, if your camera has one, is installed correctly. Once verified then recalibrate the rangefinder.

[Roger Thoms]

I'd keep it and have the shutter CLA'ed. I bought my speed for $250 and had to do the same thing. One of these days I need to address the range finder, it's accurate but very dim. In the mean time I either use the ground glass or the focusing scale on the front rail.

Roger

[BrianShaw]

Having no idea where Asher is... look at this:

http://www.stevecamera.com/

Steve has overhauled a couple of shutters. He's not the cheapest but his work is 100% and his turnaround is reasonable.

The Graphex (or Supermatic) shutter should be easily overhaulable by any competent tech who works on LF shutters.

[Sirius Glass]

If you need to repair the focal plane shutter contact Bert Saunders at graflex.org and he will walk you through it via emails step by step. I did that with him and learned a lot.

I use both shutters about equally.

Enjoy!

Welcome to Large Format Photography Forum.

Steve

[James E Galvin]

First go to graflex.org. All sorts of graphlex info.
Check that the infinity stops on the rail are in the right place. Pull the front standard out against the stops. Focus on a distant object on the ground glass. The distance scale should read infinity. If not, move the stops till it does. Now the rangefinder should match up. If not, it needs adjusting. This can be set up for only one lens, the one you would use hand held. For other lenses focus on the ground glass and ignore the rangefinder and distance scale, and fold the stops out of the way, unless you want to readjust both stops and rangefinder each time you change lenses.
The shutter needs a CLA.

[Michael Roberts]

Your shutter problem is very common. See the thread below:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=64490&page=2&highlight=%22radio+shack%22

see posts #13 and 14

Best,
Michael

[jp]

I bought a speed graphic elsewhere and ended up needing a CLA on the lens as well. It's been great since, and such work is likely due or overdue for the majority of the ones on sale. You have to figure most of these cameras showing up on the used market have been sitting in attics or storage for decades and some end up at Adorama, some at antique shops, some on craigslist, some on ebay, some of keh. Very rare is the camera in perfect working order that gets traded by enthusiasts who simply want a different toy to get bored with.

You might end up paying $100 for the CLA, or you could spend $150 for a new used lens which might or might not need a CLA. For keeping on a budget, just send it somewhere for a CLA. Prices range tremendously for the service.

I don't think a focusing loupe is super important, nor is rangefinder operation. My speed graphic has a metal flip-up hood on the back which makes focusing in bright light a little easier. I focusing like an enlarger, racking it back and forth a little bit to see the ideal focus, then stop it down.

With other supplies, don't forget storage for your resulting negatives, such as printfile pages or whatever system you prefer. Also antistatic and/or ziplock bags for the film holders. Dust is easiest dealt with by prevention.

[Sirius Glass]

This can be set up for only one lens, the one you would use hand held. For other lenses focus on the ground glass and ignore the rangefinder and distance scale, and fold the stops out of the way, unless you want to readjust both stops and rangefinder each time you change lenses.


For example my range finder is set up for my 135mm lens. I can use the range finder or the distance scales. The tubular view finder with the mask gives approximate framing as does the sport finder. To really know the framing use the ground glass.

With the 90mm lens that I just use the ground glass. The front has to be dropped so that it is not in the photograph and the lens does not even get to the end of the internal tracks. The view finders are useless for this lens.

For a 210mm lens, I would not trust my estimate of the distance for focus and who would be able to accurately know what the framing is. Therefore, open the back for focusing and framing.

Steve

[John Koehrer]

repairs: Paul Ebel in Wisconsin or Flutot's in Ca.
Neither will come near $100. more like $50-60. Flutot's is backed up pretty often so email first.

[IanG]

I'd second Steve (Sirius Glass) on rebuilding the Speed Graphic shutter yourself. It's not as difficult as it sounds.

But take Steve's advice and contact Bert or look up how to do it. Tomassy has a Chapter in his Camera Restoration book, I found this after figuring out & rebuild mine. I also make new shutter cloths for roller blind shutters I've posted details on Graflex.org.

Ian

[psychoanalyst]

If you need to repair the focal plane shutter contact Bert Saunders at graflex.org and he will walk you through it via emails step by step. I did that with him and learned a lot.

I use both shutters about equally.

Enjoy!

Welcome to Large Format Photography Forum.

Steve

Steve,

Thanks! I think the focal plane shutter seems to be fine, though I have no idea how to test if the speeds are accurate.

So, for the time being I am might just cock the Graphex shutter open and use the focal plane shutter.

Avi

[psychoanalyst]

All,

Thank you so much for all your responses. I am sold and am keeping the camera!

I am going to try and fix the rangefinder myself and I will see if I can shoot without using B, T and 1/400. If it is too much of a bother, I will get it CLA'd.

A word about Adorama. They have been fantastic. I brought these issues to their notice and they immediately apologized and offered me a choice of a full return and refund or a $25 gift certificate from them.

I kept the camera and took the gift certificate that will help me purchase my development equipment.

Thanks once again.

Avi

[Nathan Smith]

Another vote for Paul Ebel for the graphex shutter. Here's his contact info:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=26495

He'll probably be able to fix it up for a very reasonable price. Bear in mind however that it's likely that the 400 speed may never be quite what it should be, this is a common issue with older shutters of this type, but not a big problem as long as the other speeds are accurate. In any case, Paul will send a list of the actual speeds so you'll know what you're dealing with.

[Sirius Glass]

Steve,

Thanks! I think the focal plane shutter seems to be fine, though I have no idea how to test if the speeds are accurate.

So, for the time being I am might just cock the Graphex shutter open and use the focal plane shutter.

Avi

Load it with ISO 400 film. Use Sunny 16 and adjust for 1/200 or 1/250 second. If the negative is too thin then the shutter is too fast. If it is too dense the shutter is too slow.

If it is either come back and we can tell you how to adjust the tension in the focal plane shutter.

One step at a time.

Steve

[psychoanalyst]

Load it with ISO 400 film. Use Sunny 16 and adjust for 1/200 or 1/250 second. If the negative is too thin then the shutter is too fast. If it is too dense the shutter is too slow.

If it is either come back and we can tell you how to adjust the tension in the focal plane shutter.

One step at a time.

Steve

Steve,

That is a great suggestion. I already have my Ilford HP+ 400 film. I am waiting for my 4x5 holders and development trays to arrive. Once those are here, I will be able to shoot and post the results.

Avi

[psychoanalyst]

By the way....what kind of Copal or Compur (or any shutters other than Graphex) would be compatible with my 135 Optar and the Speed Graphic board?

Thanks!

Avi

[Jon Shiu]

Wollensak Rapax would fit.

Jon

[psychoanalyst]

Another vote for Paul Ebel for the graphex shutter. Here's his contact info:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=26495

He'll probably be able to fix it up for a very reasonable price. Bear in mind however that it's likely that the 400 speed may never be quite what it should be, this is a common issue with older shutters of this type, but not a big problem as long as the other speeds are accurate. In any case, Paul will send a list of the actual speeds so you'll know what you're dealing with.

Contacted Paul. The total cost runs into $86 for CLA and recalibration of speeds+shipping additional. I wonder if I could buy a shutter for that cost?

[Sirius Glass]

Contacted Paul. The total cost runs into $86 for CLA and recalibration of speeds+shipping additional. I wonder if I could buy a shutter for that cost?

Yes, if you went out a bought another one, it too could need a CLA or be defective. Any camera or shutter that has sat for years will need a CLA. Contact Carol Flutots at http://www.flutotscamerarepair.com/ She is usually less expensive and really quite good, I have used her, but she has a long backlog typically.

Steve

[Jim Graves]

A Speed Graphic at this price with a 135mm Optar should have a lens working on all speeds ... not guaranteed accurate on all speeds ... but one working on all speeds.

There is no way for you to tell if a CLA will fix this lens ... it's not just a matter of being off time ... it is NOT WORKING on 3 different settings. That is unacceptable ... you may well ship ($$) and spend an additional $60-$70 (so now you're over 1/3 of your purchase price) ... and end up being told the lens can't be fixed.

I'd send it back to Adorama and find another one. There is no way a vendor of the size and experience of Adorama should deliver a lens with these undisclosed flaws.

[Asher Kelman]

Having no idea where Asher is... look at this:

http://www.stevecamera.com/

Steve has overhauled a couple of shutters. He's not the cheapest but his work is 100% and his turnaround is reasonable.

The Graphex (or Supermatic) shutter should be easily overhaulable by any competent tech who works on LF shutters.

Brian,

I live 15 minutes away, LOL! This is a great piece of info! Out comes by Crown Graphic, Busch and Bronica!

Thanks,

Asher

[Kuzano]

I didn't see anything in your posts indicating the style you intend to shoot. For me, the issue of the rangefinder is extremely simple.

I have never, and never intend to shoot large format hand held. For me personally, that amounts to wasted film. Secondly, I don't personally find the focal plane shutter to my liking. Consequently, I tend toward fixer upper Graflex bodies. The first item removed is any form of rangefinder. Second, out with the focal plane shutter. But keep in mind that I lean toward cameras that are weak in these areas. I would never cripple a camera in good form, but it's a waste of time for me to seek out perfectly good specimens.

I have had 3(and still have two) Graflex Super Graphic bodies from which I have stripped all rangefinder circuitry, linkage, cams, cam mechanisms, etc. Everything that would be needed for anything other than ground glass work is gone from the body.

Stripped in this way, these cameras weigh about 2/3 of their usual weight, which is my goal. Decent field camera usage, on a tripod. With the extra and somewhat unknown movements in the Super Graphic, they offer as much movement as most dedicated field view cameras.

If you keep looking for camera's that are excellent plus in all functions, you should expect to pay at least three times what you did. Otherwise, you will simply be looking, buying, selling and looking again. You will hardly ever be assured of the operation of all the critical function unless you pay to have it done yourself. There are plenty of sources for the work. I would say that you got your Graflex for a fair price. Plan to double that to get it right for you, particularly if hand held work is something you want to try.

And, I didn't see him mentioned, but don't overlook Fred Lustig in Reno Nevada. He's a master of all these Graflex cameras, rebuilding all aspect of them, including the notorious 1000 speed shutter for the Super Speed.

[psychoanalyst]

Kuzano,

I agree with you.

I don't intend to shoot hand held at all. A big reason behind my shooting film with the Speed is learning composition.

The focal plane shutter is important to me since I eventually want to shoot with barrel lenses.

I am ok with the rangefinder not working well, but I am a bit more concerned about the shutter, now that Jim has pointed out that I overpaid.

Hopefully I will find a solution that works for me.

Avi

[Michael Roberts]

Avi,
how about a little more info on the shutter. When you say it doesn't work on B and T, what do you mean--does the shutter not open at all? Does it open, but not close? Does it open and close, but very, very slowly? Does it open and close sometimes but not other times? Does it work when you press the shutter release but not with a cable?

In my experience, the more common problem is the shutter will open--slowly--and close--slowly--and/or hang up sometimes more than others. It's more rare--and more serious--if it does not open at all on B or T.

[Michael Roberts]

Also, you might consider buying Mike's 135 Optar:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=76742

Less than the cost of a CLA, solves your immediate problem, and then you can deal with your current shutter issue at your leisure...

[Nathan Smith]

Contacted Paul. The total cost runs into $86 for CLA and recalibration of speeds+shipping additional. I wonder if I could buy a shutter for that cost?

You could not buy one that had a recent CLA and recalibration. Keep in mind that ALL of these shutters are old, and all of them will need a CLA.

You can however buy one that has not been cleaned recently fairly cheaply. If you buy it from someone who has used and/or properly tested it, and you trust that person, then maybe you could put off having it cleaned. But eventually you're going to need to talk to Carol, Steve, Paul, or whomever. Old oil & grease gets gummed up over time.

[Jim Noel]

If the FP shutter is functioning at all spring tensions,it is likely fairly accurate. Run it a few times at each speed, starting with the fastest, and chances are it will be OK. As for the Graphex shutter, there are still a few competent repair people scattered around the country. Also, it is not too expensive to replace.

[EdWorkman]

I bought a Graflex decades ago and got a new curtain installed. It never worked right, although I feel i can get it to do so.
then i got two speeds. Having no money at the time I got them out to use, I googled for info.
The curtains are fine, no rips cracks or major issues. But the curtains obviously were hanging up and moving slooooowly.
I found a tidbit about how and what to lube, without requiring any disassembly, so i did and after a little excercise the shutters seemd very OK. [L ook for a little hole on a round thingy on the bottom- it leads to the bearing of one of the curtain spools. i used sewing machine oil, fearing the water in WD40 would be a bad thing]
Being a gaziliion [well, over 120] miles from any known repair I figured speed checking was going to involve more pain than i was up for, so i took the camera out on a Sunny 16 day and tried some shots. BTW this is about an Anniversary and a pre-Anniv- Graflex FP shutters are heel-for-stout. The negs came out well, and I'm happy.
I do find my eyeballs are very inadequate for focussing, so I've resigned myself to a lot of tripod, and loupe, and a homemade hood for the groundglass- should be illegal for a Speed.
So I say the fast speeds of the leaf shutter can be addressed later and use the FP for those after you have had some fun of actual pictures

[psychoanalyst]

Avi,
how about a little more info on the shutter. When you say it doesn't work on B and T, what do you mean--does the shutter not open at all? Does it open, but not close? Does it open and close, but very, very slowly? Does it open and close sometimes but not other times? Does it work when you press the shutter release but not with a cable?

In my experience, the more common problem is the shutter will open--slowly--and close--slowly--and/or hang up sometimes more than others. It's more rare--and more serious--if it does not open at all on B or T.

Mike,

I will go home tonight and check whatever you mentioned and get back with my detailed observations.

Thanks.

Avi

[psychoanalyst]

So I say the fast speeds of the leaf shutter can be addressed later and use the FP for those after you have had some fun of actual pictures

Ed,

Thanks. That is exactly what I am going to do for the time being while I try and sort out the issue with the leaf shutter.

Avi

[psychoanalyst]

Avi,
how about a little more info on the shutter. When you say it doesn't work on B and T, what do you mean--does the shutter not open at all? Does it open, but not close? Does it open and close, but very, very slowly? Does it open and close sometimes but not other times? Does it work when you press the shutter release but not with a cable?

In my experience, the more common problem is the shutter will open--slowly--and close--slowly--and/or hang up sometimes more than others. It's more rare--and more serious--if it does not open at all on B or T.

Mike,

Here are my detailed observations:

1. at the 1/400 setting: I try and cock the lever, but it won't remain cocked. That is, if I release it, it snaps back into position, but I can see the leaves open and close. No touching the trip lever at any point.

2. At the B setting: I cock the lever, but it gradually snaps back into its original position all on its own without me ever tripping the shutter. Almost the same problem as 1/400, but its a more gradual release.

3. T setting: It half works. That is when I cock the lever and press down on the trip lever, the leaves open. But the second part where the leaves are supposed to close when I press down on the trip lever does not work. I have to physically push the cock lever to close the shutter.

The other speeds at least open and close when I cock and trip.....don't know about speeds.

One of the users on this forum kindly offered me a Rapax shutter for $40...so I am thinking of taking him up on his offer.

Thanks!

Avi

[Michael Roberts]

Avi, this certainly sounds like a situation you could fix using the aerosol electronic contact cleaner that I referenced in my earlier post. It sounds like a classic case of dried or semi-dried lubricant that is clogging up the works. The aerosol spray is a $10 investment and there is no risk of causing additional damage as far as I am aware.
Michael

[psychoanalyst]

Avi, this certainly sounds like a situation you could fix using the aerosol electronic contact cleaner that I referenced in my earlier post. It sounds like a classic case of dried or semi-dried lubricant that is clogging up the works. The aerosol spray is a $10 investment and there is no risk of causing additional damage as far as I am aware.
Michael

Mike,

Thanks for the tip. I will try that.

I had another question (and maybe a stupid one at that). When focusing on GG, I see that the image is brightest in the center and fades away at the edges. When I checked the LF page on the Crown Graphic

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/cameras/pacemaker/

the section of Focusing mentions that the GG is evenly illuminated.

I have no experience using GG focusing, so thought I'd confirm before I load up my first sheet of film (EVER!).

Quite excited to start this weekend. Got pretty much everything. Waiting for for chemicals and my Toyo 3.6X loupe.

Thanks!

Avi

[Michael Roberts]

Check to see if this is simply a result of your angle of view--i.e., if you move your head to the corner of the gg, does the brightness follow your line of sight? If so, you don't have a problem with light fall-off from the lens. You shouldn't have a problem with the 135mm.

Note: this may be impossible unless you remove the metal focus hood. Try removing it and using a black t-shirt, jacket or towel as a dark cloth so you can move around more behind the camera. You will probably want to experiment with using the hood or not and see which you are most comfortable with. Personally, I find it gets in my way, and I don't use it. I wear glasses, and that's one reason I find the hood awkward to use. To remove the hood, open it up first, then press on the catches on the sides. To replace it, close it up and just press it back into place.

If you acquire a wider angle lens--like the Optar 90mm--you will definitely notice light fall-off-about one stop.

You may find that you rarely need the loupe; I only use mine in low light conditions. In bright light I can focus just fine without it.

Excitement is a good thing...feels like...life! I've been looking forward to the Summer Solstice for several months to get to a couple of locations where I expect the angle of the sun will be optimal for what I want; can't wait to get out again.

[Jack Dahlgren]

I had another question (and maybe a stupid one at that). When focusing on GG, I see that the image is brightest in the center and fades away at the edges. When I checked the LF page on the Crown Graphic

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/cameras/pacemaker/

the section of Focusing mentions that the GG is evenly illuminated.



More or less evenly. There will almost always be fall-off at the edges as the light is at a more of an angle to your eye there. Move your head side to side and you will see the brighter area shift. This is just physics, so get used to it.

[psychoanalyst]

Check to see if this is simply a result of your angle of view--i.e., if you move your head to the corner of the gg, does the brightness follow your line of sight? If so, you don't have a problem with light fall-off from the lens. You shouldn't have a problem with the 135mm.

Note: this may be impossible unless you remove the metal focus hood. Try removing it and using a black t-shirt, jacket or towel as a dark cloth so you can move around more behind the camera. You will probably want to experiment with using the hood or not and see which you are most comfortable with. Personally, I find it gets in my way, and I don't use it. I wear glasses, and that's one reason I find the hood awkward to use. To remove the hood, open it up first, then press on the catches on the sides. To replace it, close it up and just press it back into place.

Mike....did all the tests you suggested. The viewing hood sucks!:) After removing it, I realized that it was an angle of viewing problem you mentioned. With the hood on, it is difficult to tell. I will probably remove the hood and go the dark cloth route.


You may find that you rarely need the loupe; I only use mine in low light conditions. In bright light I can focus just fine without it.

I did notice that focusing on the GG is a far cry from the pathetic viewfinders on my DX camera. But, I have the chance of buying a Toyo 3.6X for ~$35-40, so I thought why not?


Excitement is a good thing...feels like...life! I've been looking forward to the Summer Solstice for several months to get to a couple of locations where I expect the angle of the sun will be optimal for what I want; can't wait to get out again.

I might go back to Alaska this winter to catch the Northern Lights again.....don't know if the lights can be captured on 4x5.....that would be cool.

But my first goal is shoot my first sheets of color by the time the fall colors set in.

Thanks!

Avi

[Michael Roberts]

It would be cool, but I think even really fast LF lenses are way too slow for the Northern Lights. By really fast, I mean 4.5. But there are some faster 4x5 lenses, such as the Aero Ektars that might work, though with color 4x5 film topping out at 100 ISO, I think it will still be too slow for the Northern Lights.

Tried the aerosol electronic contact cleaner yet?

[Dan Fromm]

Michael, you forgot Portra 400, still available in 4x5 and 8x10.

There are lenses in barrel faster than the 7"/2.5 AeroEktar that will cover 4x5. All rare and hard to use. Around f/2.

[Michael Roberts]

Good to know--thanks Dan!

[psychoanalyst]

It would be cool, but I think even really fast LF lenses are way too slow for the Northern Lights. By really fast, I mean 4.5. But there are some faster 4x5 lenses, such as the Aero Ektars that might work, though with color 4x5 film topping out at 100 ISO, I think it will still be too slow for the Northern Lights.

Tried the aerosol electronic contact cleaner yet?

Mike...let me think about that.

About the contact cleaner. I have placed on order on Amazon. Should be here on Monday. In the mean time, I caved and purchased Mike's lens+shutter recommended by another user in this post. He was giving me the Optar+Graphex shutter+board for $50 shipped.....could not resist.

But I can sell my assembly if the contact cleaner fixes it.

Avi

[tom thomas]

Avi, don't forget to remove both the front and rear lens elements before trying to clean the grease out of the shutter. Mess otherwise. Getting the gunk in the glass/glue holding it can ruin the glass.

Front element usually easy to remove with fingers, rear element can be a challenge. Dont be tempted to use pliers to "wrench" it out. Visit ACE Hardware store, get a hard rubber bottle stopper larger in diameter than your rear lens.

ACE usually has a section devoted to odd screws, and rubber bottle stoppers, among a thousand other things. The stoppers do work great. Get one large enough that the center isn't pushed down to contact the glass surface as you apply push pressure to turn the lens in its mount. You can scratch the lens even with the rubber plug. I try to get one at least 1/2 inch larger diameter than the lens mount.

If you don't have an ACE Hardware store locally, check online. Rubber stoppers are used in chemistry to seal beakers, etc. Try ACE Hardware online too.

Good luck, welcome to LF. The Speed can give you some beautiful shots.

Tom

[psychoanalyst]

Tom,

Thank you so much for the tip.

I have an ACE very close to my place. Rubber stopper added to shopping list.

Avi

[Michael Roberts]

I've never tried a rubber stopper. However, I've had good luck unscrewing lenses from shutters using gloves that have rubber coating on the palms and fingers. Seems easier than searching for just the right size stopper to fit a lens, but, hey, whatever works...

[Michael Cienfuegos]

The rubber gloves work well for me. I had a fresh can of naphtha, so I used it. It will still need to be lubed in the future, but at least it isn't sticking anymore. :)

[Ole Tjugen]

... I might go back to Alaska this winter to catch the Northern Lights again.....don't know if the lights can be captured on 4x5.....that would be cool. ...

For Northern Lights, it's generally recommended to keep the shutter speed at or below 30 seconds since any longer times are likely to get "blotchy" as the light flickers and changes. Shorter times are better, but that is balanced by the need for sufficient exposure.

The need for speed also governs the lens choice. A good old Tessar-type at f:4.5 could do it, if the light is good that night. Or a fast wide angle might be better, but that costs a lot of money compared to an elderly 180mm or 210mm/4.5 Xenar or similar.

There aren't many LF lenses much faster than f:4.5, and even fewer that deliver decent coverage wide open. If it were me, I think I would try a 180 Xenar first and then a 120 Angulon...