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Jim Campbell
12-Jun-2011, 22:25
Hello,

I am inexperienced in LF Photography and would appreciate answers to a few questions Ive been unable to find.

1) Goerz 24 f/11 Low Distortion Artar
a. What shutter would be most compatible?
b. Can it act as a long lens covering 5X7 film for landscape work?
2) Goerz 180mm f/5.6 Elgor I can find no mention on Internet.
a. Again, what would be a good shutter?
b. Is this a rare bird or perhaps a bummer line?

Both lenses are in the 80 000 series. And I assume relatively late production.

I would like to use these on an old Agfa 5x7 (with 4x5 reducing back) Studio Camera someone gave me.

Thanks in advance for any information you can give.

Jim Campbell

Pittsburgh, PA

Dan Fromm
13-Jun-2011, 04:16
Not directly relevant but encouraging, there are tests of two 14" LD Artars here: http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/testing.html They're good lenses.

The f/# is entrance pupil/focal length. We have f/11 and 24" so the entrance pupil with the diaphragm wide open has to be 24"/11 = 2.18" = 55.4 mm. If you get a shutter whose diaphragm will open somewhat more you should be fine.

Look here http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/pratique/Les_obturateurs_centraux.html and here http://www.skgrimes.com/lensmount/24art/index.htm to get an idea of what's possible and what will have to be done.

A 24" lens has to cover around 20 degrees to cover 5x7 at infinity. Artars cover at least 40. You're home free if your 5x7 Agfa has enough extension to focus the lens to infinity.

Jim Jones
13-Jun-2011, 07:09
Older studio cameras often had a Packard or similar shutter behind the lens. If yours doesn't, one might be installed. This would permit you to use lenses that are not mounted on their own shutters.

Paul Fitzgerald
14-Jun-2011, 21:41
"I would like to use these on an old Agfa 5x7 (with 4x5 reducing back) Studio Camera someone gave me."

the Agfa/ansco Studio 5x7 only has 14" of travel, a 24" lens needs 24" minimum to focus. the 180 should work IF it covers.

eBay item 160603434829 is a CP Goerz Berlin 'Telegor' telephoto lens, may be related to your elgor, or it could be an enlarging lens.

Good luck with the hunt.

Jim Jones
15-Jun-2011, 06:09
The Goerz Telegor was an old telephoto design. In 180mm it was probably for movie cameras, and would not nearly cover large format film. Goerz serial numbers in the 80,000 range are about a hundred years old.

Jim Campbell
15-Jun-2011, 12:02
My understanding is that Goerz announced a new lens called ELGOR in 1970. Later press releases announced a production delay and that the production would begin 1n 1971. The 1970 release said it was to be an enlarging lens and I assume it was EL (enlarging lens) as in EL-Nikkor. HOWEVER the lens looks much more like a taking lens.
It is similar in appearance to a Schneider 210 Symmar-S I have. Seems too large for enlarging :). It could be that the Elgor was never produced because the lens came from the company that distributed Goerz in that and later time frames. It might have been a prototype?

David Lindquist
15-Jun-2011, 13:15
My understanding is that Goerz announced a new lens called ELGOR in 1970. Later press releases announced a production delay and that the production would begin 1n 1971. The 1970 release said it was to be an enlarging lens and I assume it was EL (enlarging lens) as in EL-Nikkor. HOWEVER the lens looks much more like a taking lens.
It is similar in appearance to a Schneider 210 Symmar-S I have. Seems too large for enlarging :). It could be that the Elgor was never produced because the lens came from the company that distributed Goerz in that and later time frames. It might have been a prototype?

Could you post some pictures of your Elgor? I, and I expect others, would like to see what it looks like.

In my posting on this subject of yours in the Camera and Accessories section I cited a 1969 article in Modern Photography by Art Kramer in which he reported a planned new line of enlarging lenses from Goerz Optical Co. to be called the "Elgor". I mis-stated that he said the Elgor was to be offered in five focal lengths. In fact there were to be six and I just made that correction in my posting in Cameras and Accessories. The focal lengths were to be 50, 80, 105, 135, 150 and 180 mm. Kramer did not report what the maximum aperture was to be in this line of enlarging lenses.

And since that posting of mine I also came across a listing of the Elgors in my 1969 Burke & James catalog, headed "New! Goerz Enlarging Lenses" A small photograph, too small to see any details like focal length or maximum aperture, is shown. So it would be nice to see some pictures of yours. This catalog lists only five focal lengths: 50, 80, 105, 135 and 150 (but not 180) mm. Maximum aperture given for these five focal lengths is f/4.5 rather than the f/5.6 you report for your 180 mm Elgor. I have a hunch that if one had tried to order an Elgor from Burke & James in 1969 (or 1970 or even later), they would not have been able to deliver.

I suspect you are right, that what you have is a protoype (or "near prototype") Contemporaneous to their announcements regarding the Elgor, Goerz Optical Company also described a new line of taking lenses to be called the Dagor SV and the Dagor SL. I've never seen evidence these really made it in to production either. I think I saw an SL or an SV offered by Lens & Repro a few years ago.

Did I mention I'd like to see some pictures of your Elgor? :-).

O.K., so I'm a Goerz freak.
David