Lens for Graflex RB--Componon or Tele-Raptar?

[toolbox]

Hey guys,
Looking to put a lens on my Graflex RB after I get the bellows replaced (the original lens is long gone). I've got a Schneider Componon 240mm that I can probably make work...I'm guessing this is an 8x10 enlarging lens. I've never used it...anyone ever shoot one? Thoughts? Needs a cleaning internally, but otherwise looks pretty good.

Also looking at the 15" Raptar Telephoto...I'd mainly use this camera for portraits, and these seem to go relatively cheap. The weight isn't a problem...my RB was modified with a big support bed for the front standard (I believe it was originally modified to use an Aero Ektar some time in the past). AE would be nice, but probably out of my budget (also not a fan of Gamma rays...)

Any other suggestions on a long/relatively inexpensive lens? Doesn't need a shutter obviously, and I'm going to have to make a mount for pretty much any lens...
Cheers,
Scott

[Michael E]

Since LF cameras of East German origin had built in shutters, Carl Zeiss Jena made a lot of fine barrel lenses. There was a line of Tessars with a maximum aperture of 4.5 (I know of 50, 75, 105, 120, 135, 180, 210, 250, 300, and 360mm). The 50mm is tiny, the 360mm is a real chunk of glass. They are good lenses, appear frequently on ebay, and they are pretty cheap.

I happen to own most of the above lenses unused in their original box and plastic wrapping :-)

Michael

[Michael E]

By the way: Have you checked the bellows extension on your camera? Using a long lens at close range requires a lot of bellows.

[Jim Noel]

Hey guys,
Looking to put a lens on my Graflex RB after I get the bellows replaced (the original lens is long gone). I've got a Schneider Componon 240mm that I can probably make work...I'm guessing this is an 8x10 enlarging lens. I've never used it...anyone ever shoot one? Thoughts? Needs a cleaning internally, but otherwise looks pretty good.

Also looking at the 15" Raptar Telephoto...I'd mainly use this camera for portraits, and these seem to go relatively cheap. The weight isn't a problem...my RB was modified with a big support bed for the front standard (I believe it was originally modified to use an Aero Ektar some time in the past). AE would be nice, but probably out of my budget (also not a fan of Gamma rays...)

Any other suggestions on a long/relatively inexpensive lens? Doesn't need a shutter obviously, and I'm going to have to make a mount for pretty much any lens...
Cheers,
Scott

For portraits go with the 15" Tele-raptar. Good length for perspective, and a litte soft wide open..

[Dan Fromm]

According to the http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/wollensak_5.html, the 15"/5.6 TeleRaptar in Alphax #4 needs 9 5/16" extension at infinity. Does y'r 4x5 RB have that little?

[johnielvis]

I tried it (15")---although it can be done, it's tough---the rear element pokes through a LOT and crashes with the mirror when the bellows is retracted---you can't get that close with bellows all the way extended either---and the H O L E in that tiny board---it's very little material left--for real security you'll need a special metal board--but metal board will dig in your wood camera---it's a dilemma---i solved it by mounting a 360 tele-xenar---it works better--can focus closer (get say a 16" or so square on the GG at bellows all the way out)...it's a smaller lens too--it too is hard to mount on the tiny board.

I also did a frankenstein looking rig for another 15" with shutter that gives longer extension--also works very good and is a way to mount the regular long lenses--see pic

HOWEVER--that being said, you'll notice a LINE on your pics--look through the camera from the back through the lensboard opening and you'll see a ledge on the bottom---when you have longer angle lenses like this cranked out, the ledge obscures some of the image to the film....so you're screwed there in portrait orientation.....

I gave up and mounted the 360 tele-xenar on the slr

tried to upload pic...can't preview so I don't know if its up...here goes

[jnantz]

i'd use the tele-raptar
it was made to use with your camera
and works well. ... there's a 10" as well
that is also suited for the slr ...

[johnielvis]

I posted this pic before--this is the size of the hole for the 15" wolly---that other pic is a 15" wolly tele-raptar too--but with shutter--itt's even BI:GGER in the barrel---it's wide enought to JUST fit in the shade cloth width---the hole in the board is the much smaller rear cell section--just enough room for the retaining ring---the wood was just about breaking with the hole this big--you need a special strengthing flange made for a tiny b-board for that lens-

AND, remember--the bellows don't give you that much draw for the 15" lens--you can't get that close--to get close you have to front mount like I have above--but then you get the shadow band at the top of your pics (bottom of the film)---it's where the mirror meets with the bottom of the camera--there's a hump there--you need a tele lens for sure with a diverging rear element to get over the hump with little bellows draw---the 360 tele xenar just makes it...anyways--here's the hole

[Sirius Glass]

Let me jump in. I would like recommendations for a 15" lens for my 1928 4"x5" Graflex Model D.

Steve

[Dan Fromm]

Steve, the Bible, tenth edition, says that the 4x5 RB Series D produced from 1928 - 1947 takes 14", 15", and 17" f/5.6 telephotos. There's a strong hint. You might want to spend some time looking at lens catalogs on www.cameraeccentric.com

If I were you I'd look for a 15"/5.6 TeleOptar/TeleRaptar in barrel or a 360/5.5 TeleArton or TeleXenar.

[Sirius Glass]

Thanx Dan!

[Fotoguy20d]

If anyone's looking for a 15" tele, I have three of them (one cleaned and properly reassembled today - see my misadventures on apug). Two are quite respectable, the third shows evidence of former fungus, but should be quite usable.

Dan

[johnielvis]

I"d second the tele-arton--I mounted one of them too, it has the least back focus, so you can get the closest without the black line showing up at the top....however, I couldn't mount it with the copal 3 INSIDE where I could get infinity focus--I had to mount it outside like the other monster in the pic---couldn't get infinity but it WAS the best for portrait work.

Although the cameras didd state they were made to take them (that's why I tried it) there are practical considerations--I put mine together for portraits, but found the black line will limit it's use---you can use landscape mode perfectly with all lenses.

also--that b. board...there's a lot of meat missing with the 15".

voice of experience---you'll see

[toolbox]

Thanks for all the great input, guys! My RB has been pretty heavily modified at some point in the past...here's a shot of the front of it--

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n259/toolbox007/My%20Stuff/Graflex%20RB%20Auction%20Photos/DSC08271.jpg

The front standard is a piece of wood about an inch thick covered with an aluminum plate, with hole about 4 1/2" in diameter. The bottom of it sits on rails, and is supported by an aluminum bed that it slides back and forth on. It's pretty beat up now, but whoever did it knew what they were doing--the work is actually really well done. I'd bet money this was done to support an Aero Ektar... At any rate, it should easily support pretty much anything I want to put on it :D. I couldn't get infinity focus with any standard 4x5 lenses I have...I'd have to make a recessed "cup" to mount them on if I wanted to. Not that it matters much...like I said, I'd like to set this up for portraits. I'm also going to sand the metal down and paint it again...it's pretty ugly right now LOL.
So, seeing how it's set up, any other thoughts on what to mount on it? Sounds like the 15" tele should be pretty workable...

[rjmeyer314]

I use a Componon 210mm on my 4x5 Graflex RB Auto. With the long bellows it's possible to remove the front element and use it as a convertible (360mm?). I don't know if you will have enough bellows to use the 240mm Componon as a convertible, but you will have plenty to use it at 240mm. I used this rig to shoot our company picnic a few years ago when the hired photographer didn't show up.

[Fotoguy20d]

I just went through the exercise of mounting a 15" Tele-optar onto a 4x5 Series D and can share the following observations:

1. Yes, there is a shadow band along the bottom of the negative, which gets worse the more bellows extension is used.

2. Closest focusing distance is around 15'

3. A wooden lens board does just fine. This one is 1/4" birch plywood, routed to around 1/8" on the perimeter. Because I was too lazy to route a c'bore for the retaining ring, the lens is just threaded into the wood (I drilled the hole at 2.5", which just clears the body, but not the threads, and then used a dremel to crudely enlarge it enough to get the threads to start. it's a very tight fit). Maybe not something I'd do permanently but its getting the job done.

Dan

[Sirius Glass]

I just went through the exercise of mounting a 15" Tele-optar onto a 4x5 Series D and can share the following observations:

1. Yes, there is a shadow band along the bottom of the negative, which gets worse the more bellows extension is used.



Please tell me about the shadow band. Does anyone know where it comes from or how to prevent it?

Steve

Edit: I see this in post number 8

AND, remember--the bellows don't give you that much draw for the 15" lens--you can't get that close--to get close you have to front mount like I have above--but then you get the shadow band at the top of your pics (bottom of the film)---it's where the mirror meets with the bottom of the camera--there's a hump there

So is there anyway to avoid the bump obscuration other than not use it for close ups?

[Fotoguy20d]

Steve,

I think its due to the raised lip on the bottom of the case where the seal against the mirror is made (raise the mirror and you will notice the raised surface about an inch and a half back). I thought the black in these was due to the grafmatic but from re-reading this thread this morning, I realize it must be that shadowing. You can see it at the top of each of these frames. These are using progressively more bellows extension and you can see that the shadow gets bigger. It's really not much of a problem if you use the telephoto at distance.

Dan

[Sirius Glass]

Dan,

Thanks. I wondered why the dark bar but I did not think to ask in our discussions.

I see from above that it is not a problem in the landscape configuration.

Would this show up with an 11" lens?

Steve

[Fotoguy20d]

Steve,

It wasn't very obvious to me either until I saw all three side by side.

I think one of the experts will need to answer. The issue, as I see it, is that if you use a non-tele 11" lens (I think the shorter Tele-Optar is 10"), you will need a lot of bellows extension (can the D even provide that much?) and will have the same issue. Whether there will be a problem with the 10" tele-optar, I don't know.

Dan

[Lightbender]

wow thats a really big issue with the rb/super d cameras that i did not realize.
I had to bring mine out to check. That mirror bumper does indeed cause vignetting.

I have a 15 inch tele-optar mounted on an rb board (never used it though=)

What is a photographer to do?

[Sirius Glass]

wow thats a really big issue with the rb/super d cameras that i did not realize.
I had to bring mine out to check. That mirror bumper does indeed cause vignetting.

I have a 15 inch tele-optar mounted on an rb board (never used it though=)

What is a photographer to do?


Use the Landscape format
For Portrait, rotate the camera 90 degrees

Steve

[toolbox]

Interesting... When I was digging around the innards of my RB trying to figure out how the bellows is attached, I was saw that bar the mirror sits on and was wondering if it would do exactly that... Oh well, you work with what ya' got :).