KEH quality

[uphereinmytree]

So in my opinion, based on recent purchases, Keh.com has gone downhill. I know longer rely on the condition ratings and expect to be less than satisfied. Today I received an order minus one item (sold to another 1 minute before I checked out). The refund is being held by paypal for lack of funds?! The other items are missing parts and not as nice as described. My last purchase from a month ago was equally disappointing. Hundreds of dollars type purchases. Now I might have to pay expensive shipping to return large items. Am I the only unlucky customer?

[Peter De Smidt]

Did you take it up with them?

[Michael Graves]

I received an order from them just last week that was very well packed and conservatively rated. There was nothing about my experience that would lead me to suspect they are going down hill. I am not surprised at all about the refund being held. How many people actually use their primary account to fund Paypal? Why would we expect any less of a business?

[sully75]

when I had a problem last year, they exchanged the camera (I had had it for like 4 weeks) and paid postage both ways.

What were you buying? I bought a Mamiya C330...I have to cut them some slack because in my experience these cameras got used HARD.

[Sirius Glass]

I have not found KEH.com going down. When the rear mistakes occur, they pay for the return postage and ship the correct item at no charge. Why don't you call them before blasting them over the internet?

Steve

[Leigh]

I've purchased a whole bunch of stuff from them, mostly LF lenses, as recently as a month ago, and have always been very pleased.

I've never had any issue with their quality grading. If anything I thought it was quite conservative.

When you say "Now I might have to pay expensive shipping to return large items." it indicates that you've not yet contacted them about the problem. So why are you slandering them on the internet?

- Leigh aka "Happy KEH Customer"

[Noah A]

I've always had good luck with them until this year.

Earlier in the year I bought a Pentax 67 and lens in EX+. They were both beat up and in poor cosmetic shape. Not only that the lens mount was bent so much that there was no way the lens would mount on the camera.

I then tried a BGN Master Technika. It was in decent cosmetic shape actually, but the front standard didn't lock in place, the bellows had large holes in it (not pinholes, you could see them from looking at it from the outside) and the groundglass was replaced with a wista fresnel/gg combo, which had no shims and almost definitely wasn't properly calibrated or installed. BGN is still supposed to be in operational condition, which this camera clearly wasn't.

Both times I got no-hassle returns and they actually paid for the return shipping since the items were non-operational. But I'm starting to wonder if it's worth the trouble.

A few years back I bought a bunch of Hassy gear and it was all wonderful. Lately the quality does seem to have dropped off, though to be fair I'm basing this on a small sample size of only a few orders.

[Sirius Glass]

Why don't you call them before blasting them over the internet?

Steve

When you say "Now I might have to pay expensive shipping to return large items." it indicates that you've not yet contacted them about the problem. So why are you slandering them on the internet?

- Leigh aka "Happy KEH Customer"

I do not know for sure, but it looks like a pattern is forming that is not providing the sympathy that the OP is looking for. :eek:

[Tony Evans]

Received today Contax RTS II, delivered o/night, beautifully packed and an immaculate copy, rated Ex. I have purchased a lot from them & have always received better than I expected. The roughly +20% over auction & other-type prices pays for itself.

[Drew Wiley]

Have a pal that just got in quite a variety of MF stuff from them very reasonably and
it hardly looked used. Whenever I've gotten something they rate EX+ it resembles what
other people call Mint. One lens they sold to me EX+ looked positively new except for a
tiny scratch on the accessory lens hood. Might be a new employee in the system or a
problem like that from time to time, just like any other business, but I see no evidence
of a general slide.

[Sirius Glass]

If you order a lens and the order is accepted, when they go to pick it off the shelf and that level quality is not available, they will then pick one from the next higher quality rather than inconvenience the customer.

[Helen Bach]

If you order a lens and the order is accepted, when they go to pick it off the shelf and that level quality is not available, they will then pick one from the next higher quality rather than inconvenience the customer.

I had a similar experience recently - except that they offered a lower grade lens at a lower price. I accepted the offer, but they charged me for both lenses, the one I received and the non-existent one. I complained, so they reversed both charges and then re-charged me for the non-existent more expensive lens.

They would not believe that I was telling the truth and asked for my credit card statement. I sent it to them, reluctantly. They have just ignored me after that, so I am now waiting for the credit card company to resolve the issue. Frustratingly bad customer service, especially as they caused the problem to begin with. I don't mind them having made a mistake, but they really should make an effort to resolve it.

Best,
Helen

[Don Dudenbostel]

I purchased an 80mm planar CF for my Hasselblad and they sent a C T* old design. The CF was pictured but the wrong lens sent. They paid return shipping and refunded r
The money. I re ordered the 80 CF in EX condition but when it arrived the focusing was broken completely through in three placed. Again money refunded and return shipping provided. At this point I gave up on the 80 and kept my old C T*. I then ordered a 50 Distagon CF FLE in EX condition which arrived and was in near new condition. I then ordered a 40 Distagon CF FLE in EX condition but the focusing helix was ver wobbly. I contacted keh and the offered return shipping with either a full refund or a repair at no cost. I opted for the repair and shipped it back. I had the lens back in my hands working perfectly in about a week.

Ive been a customer of KEH since their early days. I've never had a problem other than these two items which I woul say was no real problem and things were resolved very quickly.

I've bought from B&H used gear too and Calumet. Both have sent clunkers but no more frequently than KEH. One item I purchased from B&H was a 180 Sonnar CF in 8+ condition. The cosmetics were more like a7 and it had been dropped and the barrel was so out of round that you coul hardly get a lens cap on. Putting the cap on shaved plastic from the cap. Of course they made good on the return.

None of the companies are perfect but I think it's worth the chance to search out bargains given their excellent warranty and return policies.
KEH seems to be missing important details lately but they've always made good on them.

[urs0polar]

To the OP, If you call them for a return, they issue you a fedex return #, and you pack it up and ship it back free. I've always done just fine by them. They sell *used* stuff. If the condition isn't what you expected, then just send it back. No two used examples of an item are exactly the same, there's a range, and if it's not good just return it and they'll be happy to refund you. No need to get bent out of shape about it. Film cameras seem to be making a bit of a resurgence, so the stock is just a bit more picked over, IMO.

I'm sorry to hear Helen's experience however; hope it works itself out.

[uphereinmytree]

I'm not really 'bent out of shape' nor am I looking for sympathy. I just wanted others' experiences before I discount them as a source. I've had to return parts of my last two orders and would rather be out shooting. I still feel they are a good place to find things and will likely buy again from them. I brought this up because if I wanted to take chances and wait on returns, I would go to an auction. I used to feel that they were absolutly solid and reliable, but not any more. As far as return shipping, I have not been offered a fedex return # for free in the past. The back of the invoice says to return the package prepaid. I will contact them and if they pay the return shipping, I will have no issue. I'm glad most are happy with their purchases and maybe some are content to let go of hard earned money AND time without their expectations being filled, but I am not.

[Roger Cole]

Everything I've bought from them has been as described or better. So far that was a Pentax LX, 50mm f/1.7 Pentax lens, a few filters, and a spot meter. On one of the filters *I* made a mistake and ordered the wrong size - I was ordering from memory for a lens I hadn't used since 1998 (just as I got back into photography this time) and foolishly didn't check it. I'd have sworn it took a 72mm filter but it's a 67. I paid the return shipping, wouldn't have asked otherwise for my error, and they took it back no problems. They didn't have the same filter in 67 so I ordered a different one right away and they just refunded.

The LX was supposedly in EX shape. It was at least that. The leather started coming loose a few months later but was fine then. I glued it back down of course. The camera still looks almost new and works like new.

The only thing *I* find frustrating about KEH is the fact that they are just over on the other side of Atlanta from me, but they want a $5 "pick up charge" I think they called it if I drive over and get my item. I could drive over and get it cheaper than they will ship it, but by the time I pay the pick up charge AND gas to get over there and back, it's cheaper to just FedEx it across town.

Of course I also have to pay sales tax, but that's not their fault.

[David R Munson]

I've been buying from KEH since I bought my first medium format camera (a Mamiya C220) back in 1997 when I was 15. They've been my primary source when buying new equipment ever since. They've always had great service, in my experience, and the two times I've had a problem with something I purchased from them (once with a Mamiya RB67 lens, once with a Leica M3), they did an exceptional job of resolving the problem, to my satisfaction and with very favorable speed and positive attitude. Not everyone is going to be equally satisfied. Sometimes mistakes are made and people do occasionally get screwed. As a whole, though, I do believe in KEH and remain a loyal customer. They do a great job and, despite the occasional problem, do seem to have the desire to do right by the customer.

[John Jarosz]

I've been buying from them since 1981 or so when I got my Hass SWC. I have never had an issue with anything they have sent me, it's always been better than I expected.

OTOH, they are a big company which makes them an exciting target for scammers who try to play their customer policy. So regular customers must occasionally get caught up in their procedures designed to foil the bad guys even if those customers are 100% innocent. They're never going to tell you that your problem was caused by some arcane internal security issue as they don't want that info out there. Sometimes, it just "happens".

john

[dsphotog]

Buying from KEH since about 1983, I've never had a problem.

[jnantz]

i've been buying things from keh since the early/mid 1990s.
i never buy anything but items listed in "bargain" condition.
the last thing i bought was a few years ago, and it arrived in 2 days
unused, new and in the original box (with the original plastic wrapping on the box).

[patrickjames]

I typically bottom feed KEH because I use the stuff I buy and they have historically had some great deals. Last year I picked up a 90mm SA for only $109 and a Fuji 210mm for $119. Both were rated as BGN. The SA had a fixed rim ding but the glass was perfect and the Fuji was in amazing shape. I also picked up a Contax ST with the grip for a measly $160. Unfortunately earlier this year their prices went way up. They now have a ton of inventory too because of the higher prices I assume.

[Preston]

I have bought medium format and 35mm lenses from KEH. In all cases they were in better condition than their ratings indicated.

I also had their repair facility calibrate a Pentax Spotmeter V and a bellows replacement on my Tachihara 4x5. In both cases the repairs were done accurately, in short order, and at a reasonable price.

--P

[Roger Cole]

I typically bottom feed KEH because I use the stuff I buy and they have historically had some great deals. Last year I picked up a 90mm SA for only $109 and a Fuji 210mm for $119. Both were rated as BGN. The SA had a fixed rim ding but the glass was perfect and the Fuji was in amazing shape. I also picked up a Contax ST with the grip for a measly $160. Unfortunately earlier this year their prices went way up. They now have a ton of inventory too because of the higher prices I assume.

I noticed the prices when I recently checked and compared to what I'd bought before. I paid $364 for my Pentax LX in EX condition. Now they list the same price for one in BGN condition and an EX they show for a whopping $569. I can't believe the market value increased THAT much in that time period. Maybe mine was just barely EX by their rating - it looked new except for a very tiny raised piece of covering that later came "looser" - a dab of glue took care of that. They also list it with the FA-2 finder for even more, $665. Since the difference as far as I know is just that the FA-2 lacks the hotshoe of the FA-1, I can't imagine why that one is more rather than less.

[Sirius Glass]

Yes, the prices at KEH have been rising as the inventory of available used equipment diminishes. That has been happening for at least several months, so I do not think that it is a "dead cat bounce".

Steve

[Gem Singer]

The original discussion that was started by the OP was about the quality of the items and service at KEH.

The discussion has now switched to the quantity (price) of the items that KEH sells.

High quality at a low price is a thing of the past in photography.

The old adage: "You only get what you pay for", certainly holds true here.

[Greg Blank]

Gem;
When has it ever been high quality at a low price? I can not remember one piece of new photo gear that was fairly priced - Not one. Photo is the one profession- hobby that glamourizes it self in ways that lead the professional- hobbist into the mind set that success is just a heartbeat away. That if you buy all this and that you will be famous- or successful. Every year there are new faces in the photo community that are up and coming "stars."

In 1986? Elite paper was close to 200 a box for 16x20. My first Jobo set cost over $2600 in the 80's, My first Color enlarger was over 2,000 with lenses etc....and the list goes on and on. The problem is people sell thier used equipment too cheap wanting simply to rid themselves of something and make back a little money. Keh has overhead, so if the economy is slow the prices go down, if things get better the price goes up to account for the sluggish time...its just practical business.

I would rather spend more money though for some thing of quality, used or new, than buy something merely to have it and have it break- so with that part I do agree.


The original discussion that was started by the OP was about the quality of the items and service at KEH.

The discussion has now switched to the quantity (price) of the items that KEH sells.

High quality at a low price is a thing of the past in photography.

The old adage: "You only get what you pay for", certainly holds true here.

[darr]

Hmm, I have been buying from KEH since you could walk in off of 14the Street and pick through their bins. The only problem gear I have had was receiving the wrong item. I have never had an issue with them in 25+ years.

Darr

[Greg Blank]

I might add that I have not had really any bad experiences with KEH, The items bought:Multiple MF lenses, MF backs, 35mm lenses have all been excellent quality related to the condition stated. I never buy bargain grade though. My only recent experience two years ago was that they had a difficult time with one particular 300mm 2.8 lens....that is finding it, and confirming the sale. Took a few more phone calls than I would have wished.

[uphereinmytree]

First I would like to say that I have bought lenses from them that far exceeded the rating, but I'll give some examples from my last 2 purchases. 2 months ago I bought 3 metz 70mz-5 flash units. 2 of them had mismatched control units and the highest rated (LN-) had a zoom motor that sounded like it had sand in it. I returned that one for trade and received back the same head (recorded serial #) with a different control unit?! returned for money back with no issue except lost time and shipping cost. recently, I received an EX+ cambo bellows that is very dry, stiff and cracking. It won't extend without damaging the material. Maybe it sat on a shelf for so long that it was nice when originally inspected? Also, a tenba case EX+ described as 'with dividers' but included only one divider out of 3. bellows returned and case kept. none of which is really a big issue except the metz flash, but i received a refund. overall I still consider them a good source, but am leary now.

[eduardtoader]

A friend mine bought from Keh a Nikon 600mm MF from Keh. He is very pleased with the lens description, shiping to Europe and all.

[EdWorkman]

I just received a Fuji 180 and have had it just long enough to try a few shutter speeds. B&T work, the rest sound relatively in order.
It was listed at a very good price and BGN.
With bare eyeballs the glass looks clean and scratch-free. The only blemish i've found is a scratch in the enamel of the ring around the rear element. It looks like a spanner popped out of the slot. and I care not one whit. [ I spose I will if it turns out the element spacing was badly adjusted, but no reason to think it has].
i did buy a very cheap Pentax 6x7 body whose shutter failed- the second curtain apparently follows the first erratically and too closely. Then in testing all my bodies i discovered another had the same problem- so erratic that I had had no clue except an occasional bad frame over several years, so i consider the problematical one from KEH a good investment just to identify the glitch in the other body, which had been "CLA'd " for more than I paid to KEH.

[Daniel Moore]

A Nikon 120 f/8 I purchased last month from KEH which was rated EX+ arrived without lens caps (watch those descriptions closely) and there were very visible cleaning marks on the front element. The swirl of the marks indicates it was not abrasion during shipping as the wrapping was taped securely. Their EX+ rating allows for imperfection in the form of dust, not glass damage of any kind. I've had no previous experience with buying from them other than a compendium hood at the same time, which was missing a locking screw which was easy enough to replace. They did process the lens refund without fuss but that was a surprise and of course a disappointment.

[Sirius Glass]

Daniel,

They did take care of it for you. If you had bought it on eBay from with 'no return', 'as is' or the classic "I do not know ...", you would have been SOOL! [$#!+ out of luck]

Steve

[Daniel Moore]

I've been burnt several times by misrepresented items sold at auction with all types of finality clauses and not once been unable to resolve it, i.e., return the item for a refund, typically minus return shipping. In this regard my experience with KEH was no different than buying at auction. I did expect with KEH to avoid the nuissance of wasted time and energy. I will likely try them again as I will just as likely try auctions again, but only when I'm ready to spend more than I would like for immediacy.

[Sirius Glass]

If you ask them to reimburse you for the return postage before you ship it back, they will, but you must put a copy of the receipt with a note inside the package.

[Corran]

This thread worries me...just bought my first lens from KEH. Hope it turns out well. I normally buy from various fora or ebay.

[Sirius Glass]

I have bought over five lenses from them, maybe more and I have found that the lenses were equal to or better than described. Usually the latter.

If there is a problem, they take care of it.

Steve

[dasBlute]

I've bought rolleis, lenses and light meters, from KEH,
never a problem, items were beautiful, better than
the description.

[BradS]

The way I see it, KEH have a great inventory of used gear - maybe the best in the US. They generally rate grade used gear pretty conservatively. Their prices are not bad.

I bet the probably ship several hundred items each business day. They're bound to make a mistake now and then. As far as I can tell from reading many threads like this over the years and from my own experience buying from them, they always make it right for the customer.

The way I see it, even though they make mistakes now and then, they're still a pretty good source of used gear.

[ImSoNegative]

I have been buying from keh for several years, and had a problem one time, it was with a LF lens that the piece that controls the aperature setting was broken off, no big deal i sent it back and they sent me another one. i have bought alot of bgn grade lenses from them that i thought was much better than bgn grade and they worked perfectly, the lens above with the broke aperature thingy was like ex+, i still have the lens they sent me and it works great, i wont sell to them though because they hurt my ego : ). btw there customer service imo is second to none . especially Dan, he is great.

[photobymike]

So in my opinion, based on recent purchases, Keh.com has gone downhill. I know longer rely on the condition ratings and expect to be less than satisfied. Today I received an order minus one item (sold to another 1 minute before I checked out). The refund is being held by paypal for lack of funds?! The other items are missing parts and not as nice as described. My last purchase from a month ago was equally disappointing. Hundreds of dollars type purchases. Now I might have to pay expensive shipping to return large items. Am I the only unlucky customer?

Since when does KEH take paypal... thats a new one on me.... i buy from them all the time. Really great people to deal with. You really will not find many people dissatisfied with them. In fact if there is another one besides you, i would be in total shock.... "They jake in my book" In my many years of sellin camera stuff i have had a few times where i could not make a customer happy. They just seem not to be able to kick the wife and kids hard enough. Life must be really treatin them hard.....

http://www.mikepic.com

[Leigh]

I just got another expensive lens from them today.

Although it was only rated EX (not EX+), I can find no issue of any kind. It looks absolutely brand new right out of the box.

- Leigh

[Cornelius]

The last lens I purchased from them was exactly as Leigh has noted, and it was also rated as EX. Like new condition, without a mark to be found on it. Only once have I received an item I wasn't pleased with, and KEH gladly accepted the return. Hard to argue with that!

[natek83]

I only tried ordering there once and never will again. I ordered a bronica 6x7 in exc condition w/ 110mm lens. It arrived and didn't wind properly so it obviously never was checked at all because this was apparent right when I first tried to use it. To make matter worse I sent it in for a refund and they kept telling me for weeks they were processing the refund but it never came. I had to finally dispute it with my credit card company.

[ki6mf]

Always had good luck on Lenses. my last was a BGN 105 Nikkor for 6X9 that was new and unused. I always figure BGN bodies are well beaten and its buyer beware for BGN bodies!

[Barry Kirsten]

I bought a 210 Sinaron-S from them recently, rated Ex+. I can't fault it; shutter seems accurate and the glass is the cleanest I've seen. The whole thing is like new - can't wait to get to use it! Other small bits and pieces I've bought from them in the last year have all been conservatively rated. I'll definitely deal with KEH again.

Barry.

[Michael Graves]

They have a high degree of honor as well. A little over a year ago, they listed a BGN Mamiya 7 with an 80mm lens for $650.00. I called and asked if they still had it, and the guy that answered the phone said yes. I said I'd take it and in the process of creating the order he found that his paperwork showed that it was supposed to be body only for $650.00. When I pointed out what the web listing said, he put me on hold for about two minutes, then came back and asked for my credit card information. Three days later a body with lens showed up via Fed Ex that you couldn't tell from new.

[Corran]

Wow, nice deal...

Just ordered another BGN item, a Nikon rangefinder viewfinder. I hope it's as good as the last BGN item.

[aduncanson]

I am unhappy with them just now. I recently ordered an EX+ used Samsung NX10 body from KEH but called first to see if the manual and software were included. I was plainly (and too quickly, I thought) told that only the battery and charger are included. The camera came today missing the battery and charger. The person who took my complaint this afternoon quickly looked up my invoice and said "It just says body. No battery or charger are included."

The camera's condition seems pristine. I hope it works well since I have now ordered the battery and charger from another source.

I with that their snappy answers were more consistent and more accurate.

[Greg Blank]

I have not been dissatisfied with KEH, a specific sales rep per say at one point related to my Nikon 2.8 300mm they could not find for week & which I had to really pursue to get. But it was pristine as advertised when I did get it. Over the years have bought lots of MF and SF gear including this super awesome telephoto lens. I would not hesitate to buy from them.

[Denise Dognini]

I couldn't be more satisfied with them. I bought several lenses, all of them rated "BGN" or even "UGL". None of them have any problem at al!

[Rayt]

Even UG lenses are a good risk. I recommend them highly.

[sanking]

I have purchased many items over the years from KEH and have never been disappointed with their rating system. In fact, many items turned out to be in much better condition than their rating system suggested.

If I need an item I check the prices on ebay (Buy it Now) and KEH. If there is not much difference between ebay Buy it Now price and KEH I purchase from KEH. Course, I would much prefer to buy from someone I know here on th LF forum if the item is available when I want it.

Sandy King

[Ed Kelsey]

They have treated me well. I was going to replace my Contax 645 45-90 Vario Sonnar with a 45mm and an 80mm.

So I bought the 45mm from them then compared it to my Vario. It was actually softer in the corners than the zoom. They took it back and refunded no problem. They even paid return shipping and accepted my reason for return as valid.

[stradibarrius]

My many experiences with KEH are super. I bought a lens board from the this week. It arrived and looked almost new. but it did not fit my camera correctly. They promptly issued me an RMA and FedEx postage to send it back.
I have never had a bad experience with them.
Any business will occasionally have a problem.

[John Conway]

I have been dealing with them for a long time. Never had a disappointing experience. My most recent purchases have been large format lenses, all of them bgn grade. Every one of the lenses were in really nice shape and worked perfectly. The only thing that bugs me about them is the lack of images. Sometimes I would like to see what I am buying.

[David Solow]

I, too, have had great experiences with them. I've bought two cameras, six lenses, and loads of other stuff. Twice, I had problems with lenses. One a 75mm rodenstock, the other a hasselblad 120mm. Both times it was a shutter problem. I sent them back. The 75mm they fixed, and I got it back within a week. The 120mm they switched out for another they had in stock. Prompt and friendly service. Everything I ended up with was in great shape. For lenses, I'v bought only EX or EX+, so I can't speak to their other quality ratings.

I highly recommend them.

David

[polyglot]

I too am a huge fan of KEH and I've spent a couple grand there over the last couple years.

One thing to be aware of though is that if you buy a BGN item and they've run out, they will just send an EX version instead. Which is awesome... except you get a bunch of people saying on the internet that they bought a BGN item that they couldn't tell it wasn't brand new.

I tend to get their BGN stuff and the only issue I've had is that the filter thread on one lens is a bit worn (hard to put a filter on, but it does work); I didn't try to return it.

[DrTang]

just received a 5x7 tech from them - they rated it as 'UG' (ugly I guess)


and boy was I surprised...I would have rated it VG++ to EX minus

some tape residue and the leather was loose in one place that rubber cement fixed in 20 minutes

I had only sold to them (at various camera shows) in the past..but yeah..I'm a happy camper

[Oren Grad]

Well, after some good experiences with KEH I just got a dud - a LF lens graded "EX" which came with a big flat spot on the front rim. The lens must have taken a good whack at some point.

EX "Excellent" 80-89% of original condition. Shows moderate wear for the age of the item. May have small dents and/or dings and slight finish wear. Glass may have slight marks, anomalies and/or blemishes that will not affect picture quality.*

"Small dents and/or dings". Right.

Back it goes.

< sigh >

[Roger Cole]

Is it possible it got whacked in shipment?

[vinny]

I've only bought from them once. Last month. A bronica gs-1 a la carte. The ae prism (rated ex) wouldn't allow me to view through it. I sent it back, they said it couldn't be fixed or replaced since they didn't have any more in stock. Apparently they didn't put it on the camera and actually look through it before sending it to me. I sent it all back. Bummer.

[David Solow]

I have bought a number of things at KEH over the past year. I have had nothing but great experiences with them. Almost everything I bought was as it was advertised. I did buy two lenses (each at a different time) that had shutter problems. One was repaired and returned promptly at KEH's expense including shipping both ways. The other was replaced immediately with another lens without any costs to me. I would highly recommend them.

[Oren Grad]

Is it possible it got whacked in shipment?

The package was pristine - neither the box nor any of the internal packaging appeared disturbed in any way.

I just spoke with someone at KEH. Once I explained what my concern was, he gave me an authorization code for free return FedEx shipping and apologized for the hassle. I do have to drop it off at a FedEx location myself, which makes it still more of a time-sink for me.

I think that if there's a true picture of KEH, it's conveyed by this thread as a whole. A lot of good experiences, but also a non-negligible number of annoying lapses. On the plus side, you won't get horribly ripped off because of the strong return policy. Just figure that there's a fair chance you'll need to spend some of your time serving as one of their QC inspectors.

[uphereinmytree]

I agree with Oren. I've not been 100% satisfied, but I would buy from them again.

[John Koehrer]

If you consider the fact that they repair or replace a defective item without question, how can that be a bad transaction? You get what you want in the end.
There are places where you get a hard time or no satisfaction at all. Which would you rather have?

[Leigh]

Hey guys...

You're buying used stuff because you're too cheap to buy new stuff.

Stop complaining that you received used stuff. It's USED, capiche?

Stop bad-mouthing a company that has extremely high business ethics just because you don't agree with their evaluations.

- Leigh

[photobymike]

Another successful transaction completed with KEH ... those guys are golden.....

michael

[polyglot]

Another vote for "KEH are as good as you can possibly expect a second-hand vendor to be". They grade conservatively, sometimes they will apparently send a better grade if they run out of the lower grades and while that can lead to inflated expectations later on it's hardly poor service.

Given the quantity of gear they churn, I can easily forgive them the occasional unnoticed "feature" on an item (never happened to me though and I've bought probably 10 things there) and their return policy quite makes up for it.

In other words, I'm not sure how or where you would find a better second-hand vendor at this scale.

[Steve Hamley]

Just bought a "bargain" Linhof tripod head - absolutely mint.

Cheers, Steve

[John Conway]

Keh is also one of the best places to find fair prices for large format lenses. I do get a good deal on ebay every so often, but lately I have seen some ridiculous prices on ebay.

[uphereinmytree]

So, Once again I have to return items to KEH. 2 of 4 items have to go back. The first is an EX condition fuji lens cap. It looks as if it was run over by a truck and has a big crack that prevents it from even staying on the lens. The other is a cambo bellows support that is absolutly not a cambo bellows support. I've double checked and am certain it is wrong.( no photo of it in the listing) No fedex location near me for easy return. Time wasted. I'm even less inclined to consider them a reliable resource.

[photobymike]

another successful transaction with KEH .. all companies should be this good....

[John Schneider]

I don't think their grading is that far off "standard" on average, and often I think it's conservative. It's more that there isn't much consistency among those doing the grading. I've gotten "UG" gear that was indeed UGLY, but far more often things are better than I expected. Same with "BG" grade items.

[Brian Ellis]

The only purchase I remember from KEH was the meter/viewfinder for a Pentax 67. It was graded BGN and that was probably right, it had a big dent in it though it worked o.k. I was mildly disappointed only because I've read so often about how conservative KEH's ratings are and that their BGNs are like other people's EXs. Cosmetically this thing was a BGN or worse by anyone's standards.

[Leszek Vogt]

I don't have a track record with KEH, but I just received a Minolta F meter and it's in better condition than they claimed it. You betcha, I'm a returning customer.

Les

[rdenney]

The only purchase I remember from KEH was the meter/viewfinder for a Pentax 67. It was graded BGN and that was probably right, it had a big dent in it though it worked o.k. I was mildly disappointed only because I've read so often about how conservative KEH's ratings are and that their BGNs are like other people's EXs. Cosmetically this thing was a BGN or worse by anyone's standards.

I've seen lots of dented 6x7 TTL housings rated in EX condition, go figure.

But "Bargain" by KEH's standard means bad appearance that doesn't affect good function. From their description of "bargain": Shows more than average wear for the age of the item. May have dents, dings and/or brassing and finish loss. That's as opposed to "ugly", which is bad appearance, possibly affecting function. Most 6x7's seem to have brassing and dents--these were workshorse not showhorse cameras--so "average" for an earlier 6x7 probably includes brassing and some dents.

I've bought a number of items from KEH, and when I buy a "bargain" lens, it usually shows brassing and finish loss. But the filter ring will not be dented or other functional defect. That sort of damage gets it rated "ugly".

It's actually pretty easy to remove the shell from the top of a 6x7 TTL housing, and push dents back out. It takes a lot of skill (and some touching up of the lacquer) to make them invisible, but I have significantly improved the appearance of one that I bought in Houston last November. I used the rounted handle of a small brass repair technician's rawhide mallet as a pusher, and a smooth hard surface to push against. Took about 15 minutes.

Sometimes the dents distort the shell enough to pull the shutter dial interlock up off the shutter dial a bit. Pushing the dent out resolves that.

Rick "noting that the TTL ring often costs as much as the prism" Denney

[John Rodriguez]

I've bought three EX condition lenses from them, and I'd rate them all as practically new.

[Songyun]

So, Once again I have to return items to KEH. 2 of 4 items have to go back. The first is an EX condition fuji lens cap. It looks as if it was run over by a truck and has a big crack that prevents it from even staying on the lens. The other is a cambo bellows support that is absolutly not a cambo bellows support. I've double checked and am certain it is wrong.( no photo of it in the listing) No fedex location near me for easy return. Time wasted. I'm even less inclined to consider them a reliable resource.

Agree with you. I had two items returned lately.

1. Bought an arca lens board adapter, received an arca lensboard. -->fedex return
2. Bought a Sinar F, the screen has been modified, with fresnel installed in front of ground glass. I paid the shipping to return it.

The latter one, KEH refuses to reimburse the returning shipping cost. "This is an used item, we do not
guarantee that all parts will be original supplied by original manufacturer"

My biggest concern with them is that, they do not provide adequate description on each item. Sometimes it is just simply wrong (the first case). Their rating usually is fine, but it doesnt mean anything is some cases. Sometimes they can get away with a good return policy, but I am not happy with the recent case.

Besides, if you try to order via phone, their CSR is away from their warehouse, if you have any questions regarding the item, the question usually wont be answered. The experience is totally different from other used LF stores like MPEX. If you have questions, Jim will pick up the item and answer your question.

[Barry Kirsten]

I've previously written positively about KEH quality, and a recent purchase a few weeks ago continued this positive experience - a BGN convertible Symmar which I would rate at least as EX.

But it only takes one bad experience to change an attitude. I've just received an 8/65 Super Angulon which KEH described as EX. The photo showed a lens that looked indeed very good, and I noted its serial number, 10,0xx,xxx. It arrived today and on first impressions I was pleased to see that it appeared to be like new. The shutter and outer chrome surfaces showed barely a mark, the glass was pristine, and the shutter sounded very sweet. Then I noticed a ding on the filter thread. It could not have happened in transit as the item was securely pack and padded, AND there had previously been an attempt to repair it. This damage was obviously missed when the lens was rated. And the serial number of the lens that arrived is 9,7xx,xxx - obviously not the lens in the photograph.

I've written to claim a return, but have not yet had a reply due to the time difference. Once happy, now unimpressed, but open to forgiveness depending on their response.

[SergeiR]

I've previously written positively about KEH quality, and a recent purchase a few weeks ago continued this positive experience - a BGN convertible Symmar which I would rate at least as EX.

But it only takes one bad experience to change an attitude. I've just received an 8/65 Super Angulon which KEH described as EX. The photo showed a lens that looked indeed very good, and I noted its serial number, 10,0xx,xxx. It arrived today and on first impressions I was pleased to see that it appeared to be like new. The shutter and outer chrome surfaces showed barely a mark, the glass was pristine, and the shutter sounded very sweet. Then I noticed a ding on the filter thread. It could not have happened in transit as the item was securely pack and padded, AND there had previously been an attempt to repair it. This damage was obviously missed when the lens was rated. And the serial number of the lens that arrived is 9,7xx,xxx - obviously not the lens in the photograph.

I've written to claim a return, but have not yet had a reply due to the time difference. Once happy, now unimpressed, but open to forgiveness depending on their response.

Well image could be different from what you getting - they do warn about it. But dinged ring is kinda iffy. They do miss things every now and then. All the way to sending wrong items entirely (had this happening , wrong focal ,RB lens instead of RZ lens, or wrong caps & etc). Normally they are pretty much ok about eating their mistakes back. But it doesn't help if you were expecting something by particular time.

[Frank Petronio]

Just bought an excellent Nikon F3 that looks mint other than the illumination for the prism is gone, which is common. And the excellent lens is also what I would call mint minus, no defects, just older. The BGN lens I bought looks and feels like something I would use everyday, no issues at all.

In the past I bought a BGN 180mm APO-Symmar that was also at least excellent. The one time I needed to return something it was easy and seamless. Of course if I lived in Australia it would be a hassle and if they rated it excellent then they are at fault here and should help with the shipping.

My take on BGN is that it can be a gamble, some things are truly beat-up bargains, others are simply good users with a few minor signs of use. Excellent should be professional grade and operate perfectly.

Knowing they have a good return policy and a large inventory is so much nicer than buying from some unknown online, it is worth a premium. And oftentimes they are selling for less than the questionable sellers so it's silly to risk dealing with eBay or forums when you have the option.

[SamReeves]

Seconded. I had a problem with a Canon zoom from them, and needed to return it. They took it back no questions asked, and posted the refund. Very easy!