sump pump dangers?

[lenser]

I've read the other sump pump posts here, but didn't find the answer to my biggest question.

Here's the situation. A good friend and I are considering renting a very small house/office together. She will have a two chair salon upstairs and, except for space for a washer and dryer, I will have the entire basement, about 400 square feet for a combined production darkroom and separate assembly/workroom and storage.

The one drawback is that the basement will require the use of the existing sump pump for for about a four foot lift for all drainage. I'm not too worried about exiting the chemistry itself since it will outflow into the city sewer system, but I am concerned about health problems from any mixtures of chemicals left in the open sump which would produce gasses in the room. The sump is in what would be the open workroom part of this set up.

I use the basic Kodak or Ilford processing chemicals (B&W only) plus Selenium toner.

Anyone have any knowledge of possible health concerns from off-gassing of any standing chemicals in the sump? If so, any solutions other than the lid I already plan to install plus the normal wash water that will obviously dilute and flush most chemicals out through the system?

[cyrus]

Any darkroom has to have good ventilation. Gases from "normal" BW darkroom chemicals can cause discomfort to your eyes and throat but are not really dangerous. The real problem will be with the Selenium solution -- because of the ammonia which stinks to high heaven. (Naturally you should't drink or come into skin contact with it either).
A simple solution I guess would be to run some fresh water through the pump at the end of each printing session.

[lenser]

Cyrus,

Thanks for the reply. I should have also mentioned that there will be thorough ventilation in both the darkroom and workroom areas. Also, I should have been much more specific about usage. I'm not concerned about normal processing runs nearly so much as when it is time to dump exhausted chemistry which would be in much larger (full tray and up to 20x24) quantities.

Are there any potentials for either explosive or poisonous vapor combinations in this process? My two earlier darkrooms had direct to sewer drainage, so these issues never came up.

[D. Bryant]

Cyrus,

Thanks for the reply. I should have also mentioned that there will be thorough ventilation in both the darkroom and workroom areas. Also, I should have been much more specific about usage. I'm not concerned about normal processing runs nearly so much as when it is time to dump exhausted chemistry which would be in much larger (full tray and up to 20x24) quantities.

Are there any potentials for either explosive or poisonous vapor combinations in this process? My two earlier darkrooms had direct to sewer drainage, so these issues never came up.

No. Just make sure you have a J-Bend in your sink drain and I would probably put one in line with the pump drain. Make sure you have vent pipe in the drain plumbing to prevent a reverse vacuum pulling effluent backwards. A properly installed sump pump poses no dangerof fumes.

Search the threads for Jay Decker's post on sump pumps. He has it all figured out.

Don Bryant

[Jim Jones]

You might disgard questionable chemicals into a bucket and dump that directly down a drain, bypassing the sump pump. The only potentially explosive chemicals I've encountered in a traditional B&W darkroom have been film cleaner and alcohol. Some household chemicals, like Clorox, can do nasty things when mixed with some photo chemicals.

[Doremus Scudder]

Lenser,

Do a search on my name to find one of my posts regarding replenishing and re-using selenium toner. You do not ever need to discard large quantities of it. and you shouldn't anyway if it is still active, since then it still contains a relatively larger amount of dangerous selenium, which should not be discarded into the sewer.

My jugs of selenium toner have been going for years. The solutions do not have a strong ammonia odor. If you do discard your selenium toner, make sure you use it to exhaustion and then leave a few scrap prints in it overnight to get as much selenium out of the solution as possible before discarding it.

Best,

Doremus Scudder

[Louie Powell]

An 'open sump"? I would think that there would be some kind of cover. Having an open sump could be a safety issue, especially in a darkroom.

For years, I used an open container with a sump pump to deal with effluent in my darkroom. The issue that I encountered was not from darkroom chemicals, but rather from bacterial growth during periods when the darkroom was idle. There were times when the odor was pretty rank. I found that I had to periodically dump some ordinary household bleach into the drain to kill whatever was growing.

Subsequently, I replaced the open container with a 'laundry tray' - which is basically a plastic container with a cover. There is still obnoxious stuff growing in there, but there is no odor in the darkroom.

Selenium toner has an ammonia odor because it contains ammonium thiosulfate, ie, 'rapid fixer'. Selenium toner is normally used to exhaustion - most people don't throw it out after a single use.

So as a practical matter, if you detect an ammonia odor, it is far more likely to be fixer than toner.

[Rick A]

I used to live in a house that required the same situation as the OP's. My solution was a 50gal. plastic barrel with a lid for a sump, and vented it outside. I also installed a back-flow preventer in the line after the pump for insurance.

[Jim Graves]

Here's the link to the Jay Decker sink and sump thread: Link (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=67638)

[lenser]

As usual, fantastic resources and responses. I appreciated it folks and please keep them coming.

[Pawlowski6132]

Just run the water on your way out to dilute the standing "mixture" and pump out the remaining water. The goal is to have just water standing at the end.

[bob carnie]

this makes sense to me, just flush with water.

Any darkroom has to have good ventilation. Gases from "normal" BW darkroom chemicals can cause discomfort to your eyes and throat but are not really dangerous. The real problem will be with the Selenium solution -- because of the ammonia which stinks to high heaven. (Naturally you should't drink or come into skin contact with it either).
A simple solution I guess would be to run some fresh water through the pump at the end of each printing session.