My Century 10A Restoration

[akfreak]

Well If you dont know no you do, I am restoring a Century 10A Graflex Master Studio. It is a Huge Turd. I got it fr the lens, ad a good lens was had indeed. I just could not see myself being so wasteful and letting this camera end up in a land fill or a fire place.

I, being handy with wood working and such decided to restore said turd to former glory.
It came to me with the sliding carriage and an awesome 5x7 back. Seems the 8x10 was costly back in the day so lots of studios down sized to 5x7.

On with the show. I am making some head way, plugging away a little each night. At this rate I should be ready to make a picture when film is no longer available.

Here is the turn in question.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2041/5765990721_a41924e59f_z.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2479/5766007403_bb75916bff_z.jpg

Here is the sliding carriage getting ready for disassembly and stripping of the wonderful Grey paint.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5062/5775401708_91a80df8d2_z.jpg
I found some stripper that will eat to the bone, Have to be real careful this stuff is nasteee.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2095/5775402174_bede22069e_z.jpg

[akfreak]

Here we have the SC torn down, paint stripped and ready to refinished. From research the metal is all a crinkle brown, I will find it and refinish with the correct color. I dont see any brown, I see crinkle black under the grey.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2383/5775403628_c5f79b1eb6_z.jpg

The metal pieces with all the pins finished up real nice, everything is there on the camera. The stand is beat to heck. Need to source the table adjustment screw and handle as well as the pole.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5028/5774866503_285b1cab76_z.jpg

Here is the front part I am going to do first.
Before
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2680/5803880836_440767915b_z.jpg

[akfreak]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/5803324745_263642875a_z.jpg
The front lens board hold a Packard #8 and a beef-up board for the heavy lens. The Beefup sucks.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2176/5803882744_046ef2d1c2_z.jpg

I plan to work piece by piece real slow. I masked off the bellows, The guy who painted it didn't take it it apart to pain it. I can get at all of the Grey with stripper. I plan to do a nice hand rub finish so I dont have to tear it all the way down.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2112/5803884798_d02e0f7fb2_z.jpg


Man that stripper is Mean.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3101/5803884230_1a4861c112_z.jpg

[akfreak]

The great thing is the paint come off and leaves some of the old varnish in place. I wont have to try and re stain it. I will recondition it, the colors will be perfect, like new.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5145/5803885350_91c4d54bf9_z.jpg
Look at that wonderful color under the Crappy paint
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2723/5803892380_921c066e95_z.jpg


It is going to be Swheet!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2326/5803334313_f6ec52b48f_z.jpg

I have all the lens boards, and back pieces done, I need to so the camera frame rear and center, Repair the bellows. In a few decades I will have it already to go. I know Eddie you have 20 in your basement, and others here give these away with a stand when you buy a lens, so they say. I am just the hard headed one saving an old junker. Main reason it is my old junker, and I love this stuff.

[eddie]

Nice work. Maybe I should send u some of mine to keep u busy.

[jp]

Good work! the bellow probably come off by unscrewing a small wooden frame inside, if that makes the stripping/refinishing easier.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Nice to see this beauty getting refinished. Great work!!

[akfreak]

Good work! the bellow probably come off by unscrewing a small wooden frame inside, if that makes the stripping/refinishing easier.

The person that painted it only pained the portion he could reach. I thought of removing the bellows, I read somewhere that one side is screwed on and the other nailed and an glued. I didn't want to risk a tear, this would really set back the time in restoration. I will look again, I could not see the screws at the font of the camera holding the bellows.

[eddie]

The bellows are screwed in. BUT it is a bit of a PITA to reinstall. Much easier with two people.

[akfreak]

I will be leaving the bellows intact. The painted area is on the visible surfaces only, I think it will be easiest to refinish left intact. However If it needs to come off then I'll take it off. Thanks for the heads up eddie. When are you back home, I need some partts for my stand if you have them.

[akfreak]

More Resto work tonight. I would say I am 75% done on the camera. I bought some materials to fix my stand, I need to find the table tilt assembly bad. I guess I will make a notched system on my table pole until I find the table tilter.

I also need to make one focus knob, brass ring and a pin. If I had a lathe it would be easy. I will rough it in with a belt sander and finish it with a file sand paper. PITA but you know someone has to do it.

Some shots of where we made it to tonight.
Missing one knob
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2760/5807339447_0e1451138a_z.jpg

Here you see all wood baby and enough of the old finish to blend in with a nice mild chemical conditioner ans elbow grease with fine steel wool.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5279/5807338749_6b378af4ec_z.jpg

I need to buy a can of Famowood wood filler (the best stuff in the world)
The front lens board and hardware is ready. Also the sliding carriage is ready for my 8x10 spring back, that is on the way (A Kodak,Folmer & Schwing). I had to really pull out the stops to find that puppy. I owe someone big time. I bet it will be here tomorrow.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3508/5807337687_031e4a03d4_z.jpg

The bellows is in pretty good over all condition. A few corners have holes and I need to add some stiffeners so it will fold up perfetly (like new). I plan to overlap some rigid stiffeners with contact adhesive then spray the inside with a black paint. I heard someone mention a Black Tulip paint like it if flexible and can fill voids to help with light leaks. I am still researching this. Wost case I will spay flat Rino Liner (truck bed liner) inside there.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/5807902978_30b992c06e_z.jpg

All for now, if any of you have any donor camera stand parts, I need the table angle adjustment hardware. More to come.

[Harold_4074]

Having just wrestled the bellows back into a 10A, I can suggest that it is relatively easy if you a) keep the screws in place and protruding just slightly, so that wiggling the frame will let the screws "find" their original holes, and b) use one or more spring clamps (mine are Jorgensen, have bright orange vinyl grips and tips and look a bit like enormous metal clothespins) to hold the bellows frame to the standard until you have a screw or two engaged on each side. This will let you extend the bellows, flattening the pleats and gaining access for your (long and skinny) screwdriver. Piece of cake. (Replacing the original slotted flat-head screws with Phillips drive also makes life easier. )

If you try to patch leaks on the inside of the bellows, use something thin. Closing the bellows will pinch that material and put the outside leather under tension. Old leather is not likely to be happy with being stretched...

I hope your inbound 8x10 back is a Century back and not a 2D---I was mildly surprised to find out that they are not compatible. Rather than deplete the world's remaining supply of Century backs, I scored a metal 8x10 back (Cambo) from KEH and will mount it to an adaptor that goes in place of the sliding back. While it would be nice to have an historically correct setup, it would also be nice to be able to actually make 8x10s using the lenses that I wanted that 9x9 lensboard for in the first place :)

[akfreak]

"The Back", I was sold, was from who I call an Extreme Expert in the field of Large Format Cameras. He said this "It is an Eastman back totally correct for that camera. Would also work on a Folmer Graflex Century Universal, or Kodak 2D 8X10.

I dont want to mention his name, I reached out to him as a last resort. I do not want his mail box to be flooded with inquires on camera parts. I am quite sure he was doing me a favor by selling me this back. He had it stashed, "thinking it's only a matter of time until some big studio camera comes along that only has a 5X7 back." I am sure he is right. I only hope that whatever he finds is complete and in mint condition with the proper back. I would never want to intrude into his projects. He is a very very nice man. World class Photog as well.

If I ever sell this camera I will be offering it to him first, at a steal. I dont see that happening but you never know what will happen. I will post pics when I get it, it should be on my stoop as we speak. I am still at the office (playing poker) and trying to copy and paste on a cell phone is kinda a pain in the neck. I am so glad my Driod phone has a speak to type feature.

Thanks for the info. on the bellows. I have some bellows tape from 3m, very thin indeed. Also I only need a stiffener on one or two of the sections of the bellows. There is a flat section in the bellows close to the front frame. It rests on a block of wood held up by a metal support. I have to assume the block support serves to keep the bellows from sagging. To get the bellows back to the correct shape I need to put a stiffener on two sections there. It sat in that position too long and now has a permanent flat spot.

I dont need to remove the bellows, it is all stripped down to wood and I am ready to start conditioning the wood prepping it for the danish oil hand rub finish. I have cherry for the cherry parts and mahogany oil for the mahogany parts. I plan research what finish was used originally. It appears to be a semi gloss to gloss lacquer for the top coat.

[Harold_4074]

It will be interesting to know if your back fits--for all I know, there are date ranges where compatibility exists, and others where it does not. My 2D backs will definitely not go on the 10A, or vice-versa. My first thought was to make an adapter using the same seating and pins as the 10A sliding back, but then I realized that the sliding back is itself an adapter, and it would be easier to make the interface directly to the camera. Hence the Cambo hybridization.

Could you post a snapshot of the bellows support? My bed rails have empty screw holes where that part should be, and I am curious as to what it looked like. (I also have quite a few other empty holes that mounted accessories at one time---for all I know, there was a flash powder tray hanging off of there.....)

Your friend was right about 5x7 backs--the Century 10A and an 8A that I picked up both came with usable 5x7 backs, but the 8A's 8x10 back is in "kit form" and needs several pieces of glass, brass and mahogany before it can have much utility.

Good luck with your project; it looks like you are doing a beautiful job so far.

[akfreak]

OK, I need to make a clarification my camera is bit a 10A it is a Grafles Master Studio the back is a sliding carriage and I had to use a rabbiting router bit and make a 1/16 wide and 1/8 deep corner removal step. This allows my 8x10 back to fit nad still crates a light trap that wont fog the film. In the 5x7 back the light tap on the springback is 1/2". On the correct Studio Camera 8x10 back it is like 3/4" deep to create the light trap between the sliding carriage abd the spring back.

I was told they did this to prevent photogs from taking studio backs to the field. All of the Kodak 8x10 bcks have the 1/16 light trap lip. sorry typos on a cell phone

[Harold_4074]

Good move. I originally planned to use my 2D back on the Century, but decided that, all things considered, giving each camera a full complement of accessories would be a better goal (hence the notion of adapter replacments bearing contemporary spring backs).

I like your explanation for the non-interchangeability; my guess would be that Century backs going to the field with 2Ds probably found their way to the homes of the owners of the 2Ds and not back to the studio. In the 1970s, the U.S. Army had the bright idea of buying ordinary pickup trucks to use stateside instead of special Army vehicles. The cost of repair parts would be much less if they were interchangeable with civilian ones. Unfortunately, the parts were then....interchangeable with civilian ones....and the government trucks kept turning up with defective starters, alternators, carburetors and other easily exchanged components :)

[akfreak]

It was a simple fix really, I needed to make that little 1/16 x1/8th stair step on the sliding carriage, the rest aligns up and fits like a glove.

If a 1/8th" light trap works on a field camera why not a studio. Flat-blacked the little Step notch and she is good to go The 5x7 still fits the same exact way because nothing has changed..

One more day of work and I have the weekend to get her close to finished. I cant wait to start testing. I plan to make my own GG and test with Paper, I dont have any film yet!

[Harold_4074]

akfreak,

I see that you have an original lensboard. If you want to make cheap, simple boards, you can do it by laminating two pieces of 1/4 MDF or Masonite cut to the front standard opening and the recess for the lensboard. A coat of varnish on the outside and flat black on the inside and you're good to go. A couple of weekends ago I made up half a dozen at once, so I could play with lenses that I might not want to tie up a good board on.

I would use birch aircraft plywood if I could get it easily; it holds wood screws much better than the composites do. On the other hand, I usually use 2-56 machine screws with nuts and washers to attach the flange, so it doesn't really matter.

[akfreak]

Thanks forr the heads up on the lens boards. I will most likely glue up some hardwood panels, and send them through an overhead sander to get the correct thickness and use a shaper table to get the angles

[Harold_4074]

The lip on my Century is almost precisely 1/4" deep, so the laminated assembly just drops in.

If you make hardwood boards, be sure that you have end grain on all four edges--this, along with resistance to warping, seems to be the reason for the built-up structure in the originals. Failing that, put the long grain vertically since the top and bottom are where the stress is. (You could still have a board split vertically, particularly with a large lens opening, but at least the optics wouldn't fall out of the camera in that case.)

The nice thing about these lensboards is that the tolerances are really forgiving; the bad thing is that lenses demanding this size board are really huge and heavy.

[akfreak]

I have done may facets of wood working. When I build my lens boards I will copy the Original. My joints may be a little different. I will use a mortise and tenon, because I have the bits to do this easily. Also when I glue up hardwood panels. I know the proper way to do so. I know how to set the crowns of each board so they will not warp after they have been clamped, glued, then cut and sanded to the proper thickness. (center panels)

Then I will use a stile and rail system for the outer framework. I have a friend here with a cabinet shop. I can use his overhead sander, it will make everything nice and flat. Also ee is already set up and making hardwood raised panel doors. I only need to run a few pieces so he wont mind.

Lastly I will use a rabbiting bit to cut the inner panel to fit in the stile and rail frame, glue it all up, clamp it, let it dry. Send it back thru the overhead sander just to get my finished thickness 1/2" +. Then do the edge work with the rabbiting bit to make the lip. Next angle the router table and cut the bevel on the top horizontal edge, then finish. Flat black on the inside a matching finish on the front.

The lens boards look like Cherry (closed grain wood) on the vertical stiles. The center section looks like mahogany (open grain). I plan to make my board more sturdy than the original, I plan to have a top and bottom rail. I will build mine like a raised panel cabinet doors but no detail on the center panel.

I could also make the center panel thinker than the stiles and rails (the frame), and still maintain the factory thickness around the edge. This thicker center section would aid in support of longer glass. The panel could still be flush in the front so it would not be that noticeable.

When I start to make lens boards for this camera I will most likely make 20 or so, when you have everything set up making 20-or 30 is just as easy as one or two. Material cot go up but it will be worth it

[Harold_4074]

Your lens boards will end up much nicer than my camera :)

If I were going to that much trouble, the only thing I might do differently is to make a long section of center panel with top and bottom rails, cross cut, and then do the side joints. But these are pretty hefty assemblies, so it might not be worth the trouble.

[akfreak]

What I am going to be doing will be simple and fast. The sharper table is already set up to cut 3/4" stock. So the stiles and rails will be done in a matter of seconds. I will show you when I am done with a few of them what I end up with.

[akfreak]

Well here is an Update. Things are moving along slowly. I dont have as much time to devote to this as I want. Also I am not one to 1/2 A$$ anything, so this may take a while. If I am going to go through the effort I may as well be proud of my work in the end.

Here she is Stripped of all that nasty paint, still needed to fill the holes and get it ready to fill and sand.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5076/5886946111_af5da22a75_z.jpg

A side view
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5266/5886946225_642f838997_z.jpg

And the back with the Fancy new Fresnel
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5234/5886945843_9236358d60_z.jpg


The back with all the paint gone, man it was a pain to get in all the little groves, corners, ect..
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5030/5887513712_7d2670bd66_z.jpg

[akfreak]

Now in this image I have started to actually start to condition the wood. I am blending the old topcoat (varnish,shellac) into a gel, and working it in the fibers of the wood. I am not trying to sand down to bare wood.

I stripped away the paint, I tried to leave as much old stain and finish as possible so I can blend it in as somewhat of a stain. Not hard to match colors if you use the original color. After this step I will be ready to fill holes and start to build a base.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5119/5904652736_b1d136132d_z.jpg

See how nice the color is, that is all original and beautiful. I can see it now. That wood is very nice. Look at the end grain at the finger joints so dark. So very nice, I cant see how anyone would think to paint a light grey was the way to go.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6057/5904654570_8036519af2_z.jpg

Notice the shiny part above the little latch top center of the sliding back (inner surface), That is the original finish. I will condition it until it is blended into the grain, and that grain is exposed ready to be tooth for the new base.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6046/5904099613_b0c9317b0c_z.jpg
That little latch at the top and bottom look like some sort of holder for a plate of some sort. If anyone can tell me what that is designed to hold I would appreciate it.

Again with the sliding carriage with spring back all conditioned and ready for base sealer. Going to be a lot of hand rubbing on this baby this is for sure.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5039/5904103171_128b4b8d4e_z.jpg

[akfreak]

Ok here is the update where I am on this resto. I had to build the table top (still need brass screws), I made it the same size at optional one listed in the catalog 37 x 17 if memoer serves. (this is a repost from the server crash)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5035/5904674686_f2532b9acd_z.jpg
This baby is tall
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5072/5904120179_c765fa6541_z.jpg

I still need to figure my table support and front faschia.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6010/5904672076_e05a95b6f4_z.jpg

The wood is in fanttic shape , so is the bellows. I am reasy for the final conditioning of the camera, stain touchup and base sealer.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5195/5904107475_db8f5341cc_z.jpg

Now I get to tackle the stand and the tilt hardware!

[akfreak]

Saving these beasts is fun but very hard work

[dave_whatever]

Ahh the Black&Decker Workmate - good to see it there.

P.S. camera looking good too.

[Steven Tribe]

Another re-post! But shortened!

Will be casting bronze replacements for the 2 angled fitments attaching the swivel mechanism to the table. Other interested get in touch as I only fire up about once a year.

[akfreak]

Ok here is a Round two of blending and opening the grain to accept the new finish. I am very close. One more round of blending/conditioning I will be ready for Airbrush Spot staining. I want all of the repaired areas to match, before I start to rub in the base sealer, I will be using 6 to 7 coats of danish oil. then a wet sand and a few more coats until I will the grain.

I also plan to do some edge vignetting on the corners/ edges of the main body. I will just match the origianl colors based on the wood type. It appears to be Cherry and Brown (not red) Mahogany parts.

It is slow going and my house smells like chemicals. My wife would not be happy (but she is still on vacation). I will have to air this place out over the weekend.

So to those who are interested if I will be able to blend the color/finish from a stripped painted camera, Only time will tell, I think I can pull it off. I am darn near there now and after only the second blending session.

I have some edge grain that took in some grey paint. I may have to more aggressive and re stain to match but noting an airbrush and back taping to insure no hard lines are created ( an old car painting trick).

here is where I am at as I type this message. ( I put in 3 hours tonight)

The front is 99% color matched
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6121/5929803234_fcbfbddd0d_z.jpg

The back is real close too
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6008/5929805666_c0d76ac350_z.jpg

I shot a greycard to show you the actual color. My digital workflow is color managed so this is 100% exactly as it is in real life. Digital WB is kind of nice!
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6122/5929804060_dbc4cc7846_z.jpg

And without the card the colors are perfect!
Look at that rich grain, Shame I have to cover it all up with a sliding carriage.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6026/5929247143_a0e00d2169_z.jpg

Looks like I didnt forget how to color match and condition a wood project. It has been a decade and a half since my last project. It was a $50,000 set (pair) of walnut radius stair cases that had grape vine with leaves and grapes bunches throughout the patterned details on the outside bands. That was long ago.

[finch2020]

I have what I think is a Century Grand Studio Camera, Stand and lens. It's in pretty good shape as its been used as a conversation piece in my portrait studio. Any Idea how much it would be worth?

Thanks

[Steven Tribe]

A photo would help!
As you may have noticed, these are not easily sent through the post, so are worth more to people who live within easy transport distance.

Condition of these sets are very varied, often depending how long they were used in a portrait studio. Decomissioned sets often decline rapidily in unsuitable storage. If yours has always been in a studio then it is probably OK and the bellows has been replaced when it was necessary.

The lens is often the most valuable part of the set as these were the most important "weapon" of the professional photographer and many are sought after currently because of their qualitities.

You can find a brochure on Eastmann (Century) Professional equipment at the website run by cameraeccentric.

[akfreak]

Edit, Steve already beat me to it.


Also for a 1st post you may want to start your own thread not in the middle of my restoration thread. IMO that is better

[akfreak]

Ok I have the #8 Packard Shutter all CLA'd and 100% functioning. It has 2 pistons, one for Bulb (time mode) and one is 1/25th. I dont know what 1/25th is supposed to look like, I dont have any sort of test equipment so I plan to record the sound and try to analyze it in Adobe Sound booth.

Here is a Link to a Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGrZpAAMQSc) of what she loos like in operation. that little G12 snapper is a neat little camera 1080 video is sweet and it fits in your pocket. A little noisy because I was shooting at 3200 ISO I think. Bad light and High ISO = crap picture quality. Mind you it is HD crap, lol I am getting a lot of use with that camera. My wife doesn't give me a hard time everywhere we go anymore. It fits in my pocket.


Back to the shutter. I am getting close. I need to finish the darn stand. I may build a platform for my big tripod until I can find/fab the table angle support, It is a real bummer.

I should be making pictures with it next week, I prey!

[Steven Tribe]

I have completed the difficult wax mold for the angled back support. This is the basic form - I will add the sprue (bronze entry channel) and air channel.
Looks like casting all parts about a week from now.

I don't know the bearing/ wearing properties of aluminium bronze so you may have to oil/grease the thread/bearing holes once every 2 or 3 years! Probably a good idea for all those with Century/Ansco stands!

[Robert Hughes]

Are you doing your own bronze casting, or do you send it out to a shop?

[Steven Tribe]

Own.

[Steven Tribe]

And here are the two smaller items.
The wax model to the right is the working nut on the long thread which moves to push the wooden member against the front bracing wooden cross piece. It works rather like an old automobile steering system!
I have made the screw holes, the "bearing" holes (which you will have to increase to match the thread you use), and the hole where you have to cut a thread to take your threaded steel rod.
I will do an engineering drawing (to best of my humble abilities!), when I am finished.

[Harold_4074]

Steven,

If you are not too close to the casting step, I would suggest that your consider altering the parts to accommodate an Acme threaded screw. On my stand, the elevation rod is a 20-pitch, 4-start thread, giving an effective pitch of 5 turns/inch. The coarsest off-the-shelf screw that would fit into the original parts is probably a 13 pitch (or metric equivalent), but it is easily possible to obtain Acme threaded rod in an appropriate diameter with pitch of 5 turns per inch or even less. Acme threaded taps are a bit exotic as cutting tools go, but nuts are readily available. If if were possible to cast in a pocket for a nut (either as-purchased or after turning down into a barrel nut) then something like the original ergonomics would be achieved, but without a lot of expensive machine work.

Aluminum bronze is pretty hard and a decent bearing material against steel, but I would be wary of using it against itself in a fine-pitch thread. The best of all worlds would be core the casting for a female thread to match a steel, 5-pitch Acme screw (tolerances can be quite sloppy in this situation and still work just fine) and the next best would be to cast in a nut (not sure if this is practical because of shrinkage).

Someone recently posted a query involving a stripped elevation screw; if this is a common problem, engineering the conversion to a more modern thread form might be a useful contribution to the art.

(I'm delighted to see that you are doing this casting---I have a couple of buckets of scrap brass, copper and aluminum that I hope to try casting with someday. The last time I played with investment casting was about 50 years ago, at age ten or so!)

[Steven Tribe]

Thanks for the tip.
I spent a few minutes an hour ago looking at the thread and wondering what on earth it was.
I can see now that it as you say - exactly like the steering box nut and thread on my old ford.
I can also see the sense in making the working nut (last picture on the right) to take a standard nut with the 5-pitch screw nut of an appropriate size - and the solution could be useful for others. Actually this is the easiest cast of them all and could be done as an impression casting.
When the OP reads this, I hope he makes sense of this and can figure out which Acme thread he needs!

[Harold_4074]

I just rechecked the tilt screw on my stand (a 1A Semi-Centennial from the "Eastman Kodak, Folmer and Schwing Dept." era) and it is half inch diameter, 1/20 inch pitch, with five starts for an actual lead of 1/4 inch per turn.

Interestingly, the central part of the screw is worn enough that two turns from either end give a slightly different measurement than two turns in the middle. As the nut moves from the unworn area, it "advances" by the amount of wear in addition to the actual lead of the screw.

A spot-check of availability (McMaster-Carr online catalog) shows Acme 1/2"-8 two-start rod at $49.02 for six feet (#99030A716) and the matching nut for $23.53 (#95072A130). The 1A stand screw is about nine inches long, so a six-foot length would restore as many as eight stands.

[akfreak]

And here are the two smaller items.
The wax model to the right is the working nut on the long thread which moves to push the wooden member against the front bracing wooden cross piece. It works rather like an old automobile steering system!
I have made the screw holes, the "bearing" holes (which you will have to increase to match the thread you use), and the hole where you have to cut a thread to take your threaded steel rod.
I will do an engineering drawing (to best of my humble abilities!), when I am finished.

MAN I CANT WAIT! STEVEN YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!!

[akfreak]

Thanks for the tip.
I spent a few minutes an hour ago looking at the thread and wondering what on earth it was.
I can see now that it as you say - exactly like the steering box nut and thread on my old ford.
I can also see the sense in making the working nut (last picture on the right) to take a standard nut with the 5-pitch screw nut of an appropriate size - and the solution could be useful for others. Actually this is the easiest cast of them all and could be done as an impression casting.
When the OP reads this, I hope he makes sense of this and can figure out which Acme thread he needs!

I am familiar with various Acme threads. I cant wait to hold this in my hands. Steve please let me know how I can repay you. I mean this is so wonderful. You are doing me such a huge favor. These parts are impossible to find without robbing and destroying the original stand like what happened in my case.

Steve I really cant say it enough, thank you for all of your effort. I hope that one day I will be able to return to you something that has taken this much effort. What a wonderful place this forum is. I am at a loss for words, and you know that is hard for me. WOW, Thank You, Thank You, Thanks you!

[Steven Tribe]

Before I finalise the wax casting for the "threaded" central nut, I need to know whether you can cut the Acme thread (1/2") or whether you want me to cast a captive nut within the bronze casting? I can see the sense of the later! But it will need a Acme nut here!
If you can cut a Acme thread it would, of course be nearer the original solution!

[akfreak]

I was hoping to buy the threaded rod I found this here (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LANCASTER-Threaded-Rod-5DPX7?cm_mmc=GoogleBase-_-Fasteners-_-Bolts-_-5DPX7&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=5DPX7) Steve do what ever is easiest for you. I can find a nut and a handle. What you are making is going to be just perfect!

[eddie]

make a few extra. there was a guy on the forum looking for one just a few days ago.

[Robert Hughes]

Except he's using lost wax casting technique - it's a one-off.

[Steven Tribe]

Not necessarily a one-off.
It is possible to make a latex or rubber mold of the hard wax form or of the first aluminium bronze product.
The heated and softened wax can be injected. Ad infinitum!

The Grainger's 1/2 acme thread looks OK - also pricewise-
But I couldn't find the matching nut - only much larger threads?

[Michael Cienfuegos]

Not necessarily a one-off.
It is possible to make a latex or rubber mold of the hard wax form or of the first aluminium bronze product.
The heated and softened wax can be injected. Ad infinitum!

The Grainger's 1/2 acme thread looks OK - also pricewise-
But I couldn't find the matching nut - only much larger threads?

McMaster-Carr lists Acme nuts in their catalog :http://www.mcmaster.com/#general-purpose-acme-nuts/=doa0pz 1/2 - 10 in brass aren't too expensive.

m

[Steven Tribe]

Thanks Michael!
Very reasonable-They have this round nut in brass.

1/2"-10

0.875" (external diameter)

0.50" (thickness) - as opposed to 1" on the original fitment.

95100A103* (item number - makes a change from e**y

5.50 USD

So one route would be to drill a hole with the external diameter of the nut and then install 4 grub screws.
There is room enough for two of these Acme nuts if in doubt about replacing a 1" thread length with 1/2"! And leave a little space between to provide room for gease, drill a hole and install a grease nipple!
For me this has the advantage that expenditure is with the receiver of the castings!

[Harold_4074]

I would really recommend using the multiple-thread Acme; not only does it take a lot of cranking with the 10- or 20-pitch screws, a little torque on the handle will produce a lot of force on the elevation mechanism and it will be relatively easy to break something if you run past the range of motion for the mechanism.

Last night I posted the McMaster-Carr part numbers for a screw and nut that will match the original in terms of diameter and lead (1/2 inch and 1/4 inch respectively); the only catch would be that the nut has a 15/16-16 thread, which is considered "special". To implement this, you would need access to a tap (such as McMaster-Carr #2595A439 at $61.17 :( ) and a 7/8 hole in the casting. Any decent machinist should be able to bore the thread, however, and you could also put a 15/16 hole in the bracket and then pin, clamp, or epoxy in the nut. Just bear in mind that the force on the nut is always towards the crank handle when you are considering how to install it.

[big_ben_blue]

make a few extra. there was a guy on the forum looking for one just a few days ago.

I am definitely interested too .. to fix one of my stands.

Steven - looks like you have just become the new "go-to" guy for camera stand repairs :D

[akfreak]

I like the lower price of 1/2 thread and the $5 nut. Grease sets are cheap. I have drill bits and taps to install them. All that is left now is to find a fancy handle for the end of my threaded rod.

Steve PM sent, I want to talk $$$. There are no free rides, I want to pay my fare.

[Steven Tribe]

b b b - I havn't forgotten you - although I do seem to have deleted you from my PM list in a panic when I was up to 99 messages! Which parts(s) do your need?

I will increase the size of the Bronze central casting to allow for a few more mms so there is room for mounting the standard round Acme nut(s) with sturdy screws.
Will be checking the qualities of the investment mix and the 10% aluminium bronze this weekend before doing the job proper.

[Steven Tribe]

These are the two versions of the central drive nut for the tilt.
The left-hand is the first version - for those who can cut the original thread for the threaded axle.
The second is for those who wish to use the available 1/2 - 10 Acme single nut (or similar) with dimensions increased where necessay to ensure a solid construction.
A diagram showing how a twin pair - with grease pocket! - could be mounted in this, just in case anyone is really aiming to use his Century stand a lot. The pair would have to be mounted with the threaded rod in position, of course.

[akfreak]

I'll be needing the one that uses the 1/2 acme threaded rod and nut. Thanks

[akfreak]

Hello Steve, I hope all is well in Denmark. I am making this post to see if there is any news to report on your progress. I am so excited to be able to complete my stand. I am almost ready to start the angle adjustment portion. If you need $$$ for materials please let me know. I will gladly send you some. Thanks Steve, AKf

[Steven Tribe]

What I need mostly is stable dry weather for a few days!
The two forms - "threaded" drive nut and the frontmost angle - are ready for casting.
The second group - large back angle piece and another drive nut - must wait until I have confirmed that the refractory mix of the mold and the bronze alloy are proven OK in practice!

[akfreak]

Sounds great.

I made more progress on the stand. I made the new front panel and lower crossbar. Still need to put in some lower blocks under the lower crossbar.

I wanted to use hardwood for the front panel. Every shop I went to wanted Too much money to glue up 3/4 stock and sand it down to 3/8" ($150 and up for a little board 17.5x20x3/8 in cherry.) Gluing up hardwood panels is easy, it takes expensive machines to sand it to the proper thickness.


I used a thicker laminated material (voids filled and sanded) and made a deeper rear lip. It fits nice and tight so it keeps things square and the finished panel looks identical as far as installed profile of the OEM one.

I may contact cement some laminate edge banding on the bevel of the fascia if the layers of the plywood bother me to much when I stain it. Each layer will be dark or light. I plan to fill it and sand it so the edge grain wont soak up so much stain.


So here is the state of things, (table is done) removed to refinish the rest of the stand.

The new panel ( old kicked out and broken one on to)
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6194/6105371552_257262cb3e_z.jpg
The edge profile of the Old and new, notice ho much deeper my recess is. I hope that with wood glue ans some headless pins it should be stronger than OEM.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6209/6105372478_7475c67f32_z.jpg

Here is the bottom rail all fitted glued and fastened into place (need little blocks under for added strength). OEM had a dado for the cross brace. Again it was kicked out to rob my stand of the adjustment mech. Mean men, J/K http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6063/6105372488_1e6a1a33ea_z.jpg

Here it the front panel installed (glued and headless 1" pins as fasteners)
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6066/6104823669_c94be14df0_z.jpg

Now I will start to color match and condition all of the other wood. Finish preparing the metal for a textured black paint.

I was wondering if someone can take a close up fascia of the placard (Master studio one) with a digi snapper and send me a large raw file of it.

I plan to paint a replica of the little plate but much larger with some OLD school pin striping and gold leaf accents, then clear over it. I know it wont be OEM, but it will look cool, and old school. My OLD man was a sign painter and I learned a little about how to transfer artwork to anything and use gold leaf with spray adhesive and a stencil.

Who ever has the correct placard and willing to take the shot I need, please pm me so I can give you my email to send me the raw file. I really appreciate it. Please use a tripod and be level in front of it so I dont have to deal with distortion.


And Thanks Steve, We are getting real close buddy. I am starting to get excited. Still looking for a nice handle for the 1/2 acme thread. But I will find something.

[Steven Tribe]

I thought I said that I will cast that too. It is much easier than all the others!
It looks like the attachment to the Acme thread and the wooden handle is done by an ordinary thread that has treated like a rivet.

[akfreak]

Oh great, I didn't remember that part, I cant wait to see all the wonderful parts you make. It's getting exciting. Now weather gods, please play nice and let Steve have all the time he needs to do what he needs to do.

Again much thanks, AKf

[Steven Tribe]

Well, I did some casting to-day.
The refractory forms held up well.
I will have to build a larger furnace and with better insulation to reach the alu/bronze temperature.
However, it was great for the aluminium so I decided to use the moulds with the aluminium. I didn't have time to check the qualitities of cast rather than extruded aluminium!
Results are quite good - for the first attempt in ten years! And cast aluminium seems to be as stiff as the originals. I'll post pictures of cleaned up castings tomorrow. It would certainly help postage costs!

[akfreak]

Well, I did some casting to-day.
The refractory forms held up well.
I will have to build a larger furnace and with better insulation to reach the alu/bronze temperature.
However, it was great for the aluminium so I decided to use the moulds with the aluminium. I didn't have time to check the qualitities of cast rather than extruded aluminium!
Results are quite good - for the first attempt in ten years! And cast aluminium seems to be as stiff as the originals. I'll post pictures of cleaned up castings tomorrow. It would certainly help postage costs!

That is great news, and after 10 years you are able to make parts on the first attempt it says volumes about your skills in a foundry. To the quality of the casting, I am sure they will hold much better than the parts I was going to attempt. I have been very impressed since the beginning. It is wonderful to see all the planning and effort starting to show results, Well done!

Let me know when you need money for postage and time and materials. Nothing in this life is free and I truly appreciate you helping me restore my stand.


btw, what are the coals in the furnace made of?

[Steven Tribe]

Coke and lined with refractory bricks.
I filled well over the funnel and the air passage to have some metal to check workability of the cast metal - shear strength and ability to cut a thread.

[akfreak]

WOW this is getting so exciting. Thanks you, thank you!!!

[Steven Tribe]

I have cleaned the first two castings.
The metal takes a reasonable thread and I was unable to to break the thread in the last picture - ca. 1 cm and an M4 thread.
The only 8 threads are in the "turn nut" - which have these ca. dimensions.
Please PM private address so I can send these before I disappear for a week from Saturday!

[akfreak]

These are cool. I assume the one with the nut to receive the 1/2 acme thread is a different version. I will take this to a machine shop after I get my acme thread and have the thread cut. into the block... My Info is sent. I need to pay you please let me know what I owe you. Thanks so much, AKf

[Steven Tribe]

This is the version (oversize) to accept two round acme nuts. This casting, with a direct acme thread cut in it, would, almost certainly, not stand up to the loads on the turning rod!! Aluminium does harden in the thread cutting process but using commercially cut threads is a far more secure and long lasting solution (and cheaper).
PM has been sent.

[Steven Tribe]

There has been some delay with the large angle piece at the back!
The first casting had some debris down in one of the corners - that is, of doubtful use. The next molding was done in a frustrated rush, so the result is not as attractive as I would have like it to have been!
Here is the final result.
There is much more metal here than in the original Century part. I have checked that the crucial angle is spot on.
There are two others who would like these sets. I would like to wait until OP has done some work with the castings and new Acme threads so I can use his experiences/suggestions.

[fenderfour]

Here's an alternate method for manufacturing new metal parts:

http://www.shapeways.com/materials/stainless_steel

I have used them for a few doo-dads and while expensive, they are high quality parts.

[akfreak]

Looks great to me. I cant wait to get them, I need to get my rod and nut. I guess I will buy a 4 foot rod and cut down what I dont use.

[akfreak]

How long is the acme thread on one of these stands.

I found a great deal on an Acme 1/2" 10 thread with ball bearing lead screws (http://shop.cjamasterworks.com/ACME-Leadscrew-1-2-10TPI-w-Bearing-and-Machined-Flat-ACME1210BMF.htm). It till make mounting a handle easy as well as attaching the acme rod to the front and reat brackets.

Wtih this setup all I need is a Nut and the round bur with grub screws is 5 bucks. I am getting close to start finishing my table. All I need to know is how long the acme thread is (over all length including there it it fits the handle and front little bracket.)

Also need to know the length of the board that works as the angle support. I have a hardwood board ready to be cut and rounded off.

I am ready to order Acme rods and nuts. So can someone throw a tape measure on the items I need to know about. I plan to document this entire stand so there is a reference of known dimensions. Here is a little image I started to show what I needed to know. I plan to make one with actual sizes. It is amazing how much of a PITA it is when you dont have a reference to measure from in front of you.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6234/6282551592_1e0fb178cc_z.jpg

The support pole is 53 CM or 20.866" inches, lets call it 21" inches long and 3/4" x 1 1/4" ( can someone confirm) 21" x 3/4"x 1 1/4"

The threaded acme rod length is the most important now. I need to order it ASAP I am ready to get this thing done. Thanks AKf

[Steven Tribe]

Obvious my attachments sent by email did not get through in September!
Here are some copies - which might be useful to others!

[akfreak]

I see the pictures, I can read the info mostly.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6211/6285701714_1031f21f42_b.jpg

I wanted to make it simple to explain what I need to know. I always type too much so a thousand words saved,:)
A=
B=
C=

I found my Acme 1/2 10 nut, it's the $6 steel one near the bottom, They have everything I need. here (http://www.roton.com/Mating_Components.aspx?family=7059284)
I Plan to buy the Acme thread lead screw with berrings for $20 Here (http://shop.cjamasterworks.com/ACME-Leadscrew-1-2-10TPI-w-Bearing-and-Machined-Flat-ACME1210BMF.htm), I will buy it in 12" length and cut the wood support to the proper length for the 3" or so variance

I am so close. I just want to call them to see if they can cut the lead screw to exact lengths and bearing placement before I pull the trigger.

[akfreak]

So
A= 9.17" inches (23.3cm)
B=20.866" inches (53 cm)
C=?

[Steven Tribe]

A is 24 cm
B is 51cm
C is 11.5cm (axis to axis is 9cm).

[akfreak]

Cool Beans, I am all set, Part's on the way!!!

[akfreak]

Ok I have now everything except my handle to finish my Master Studio Stand restoration.

Man these little things take a long time to complete. When working at home, and no access to a machine shop, I have to get real creative to make things. It's like Gilligan's Island here in LV. One step closer, I need to find some maroon/ reddish felt for the table top.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6589213417_d5956b0f6b_z.jpg


Sorry I have not been faster to post, this fab stuff take a long time.

[toprock03]

What an ambitious project - i love it. I am brand new to large format, however im a 3rd generation foundry owner. Just want to give you a heads-up (sorry if you already know this) - depending on the type of aluminum you used you most likely will have to heat treat the aluminum. if you dont it will get all gummy when you machine it and you will not get very nice threads.

also aluminum bronze is a nasty alloy to pour - known for its high shrinkage. shouldnt be a problem with the types of castings you're making but for large castings with thick to thin transitions you must account for the high shrink rates


looks great! cant wait to see the finished product

[Steven Tribe]

The solution chosen is just aluminium. About 25% oversize compared with the original cast iron. There are no structural threads. Round pockets will be bored in the places where threads should be and exterior round female threads (available at low cost) will be held in place with grub screws (OK - these have threads!). A trial bore and thread cutting was done on a surplus piece of casting!

Dear Toprock! Posting data about access to rare facilities (foundary, brass turning lathes etc) is very dangerous here!!
I assume your facilities are not suitable for one-off production!?

[akfreak]

What an ambitious project - i love it. I am brand new to large format, however im a 3rd generation foundry owner. Just want to give you a heads-up (sorry if you already know this) - depending on the type of aluminum you used you most likely will have to heat treat the aluminum. if you dont it will get all gummy when you machine it and you will not get very nice threads.

also aluminum bronze is a nasty alloy to pour - known for its high shrinkage. shouldnt be a problem with the types of castings you're making but for large castings with thick to thin transitions you must account for the high shrink rates


looks great! cant wait to see the finished product

I used to be a metal finisher for a company in KCMO called Livers Bronze Company. I am 100% familiar with how to work with ferros and non ferrous metals. Thanks for the heads up. A little grease and anyone can grind on aluminum. Now drilling the holes no problem motor oil works perfect on a paint brush. Thanks for the help.

@ Steve I am going to use the Teflon acme nut and paint it black. It has a static load capacity of over 3600 lbs. It should be fine. To get the round bronze one for a decent price I had to order 50 of them. Also I can sand it down easy to fit, I have some time next week. I think I will be able to start making my handle and putting it all together.

We are almost there and you have been a great help. AKf

[Jim C.]

I'm guessing it's too late since it seems you already have the parts but acetal ( Delrin ) comes in
black, Polytetrafluorethylene ( Teflon ) is going to be difficult if not impossible to paint.

[akfreak]

It will be fine, youll see!

[toprock03]

The solution chosen is just aluminium. About 25% oversize compared with the original cast iron. There are no structural threads. Round pockets will be bored in the places where threads should be and exterior round female threads (available at low cost) will be held in place with grub screws (OK - these have threads!). A trial bore and thread cutting was done on a surplus piece of casting!

Dear Toprock! Posting data about access to rare facilities (foundary, brass turning lathes etc) is very dangerous here!!
I assume your facilities are not suitable for one-off production!?


Steven-

Yes we are a production facility and no longer have the resources available for one off prototypes. Well we could, but they'd be so expensive you could buy quite a few nice large format cameras!

[akfreak]

Ok great news, I got access to a machine shop tomorrow. I will be fitting my bearings, installing the acme nut into the center brace elevation lever. I decided to turn down the acme nut and sink it in. Maybe by my weekend (Wednesday & Thursday) I will be able to fit it to the table and check for function.

Also can someone take a front photo of the handle at 1:1 I need to buy my aluminum plate to to make my handle. When you take the picture can you please make sure everything is level to the world/ I mean I can come close but working from the actual handle curve would be much better. Off to Cad to draw one up.

[akfreak]

OK I am ready to drill and tap set screws for the acme nut. I plan to turn the acme nut (rear, top hat brim area) down to get more tilt travel.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7025/6665252823_270c538ed2_b.jpg

Here are some pictures of where I am at.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7159/6665252755_409b848bb5_b.jpg
I still need to so some work. I used an end mill to flatten some of the surfaces. I need to do some final sanding on both brackets to get them to lay 100% flat. I nailed the angle on the bearings, this made me happy.

I also need to make my handle arm ( Hint Hint Hinta front 1:1 macro shot of the front handle on a master studio stand would be awesome) Haven't done it yet because I dont want to be guessing.

The bearings need to have the set screw holes drilled and tapped from the sides 3 each. I left a shoulder so they cannot pass through. I bearing holes have three thousandths press fitment so with the set screws they should be good to go.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7175/6665252969_6e994ddc50_b.jpg


I will take my time and use filler and make nice consistent edges on the parts. This seemingly small project has been a lot of effort. I want to Publicly thank Steve Tribe for using his talents to cast my parts. THANK YOU Steve, you are a kind and giving person. I hope to one day be able to repay you for what you have done for me. Again Thank You, you wonderful man!


Bringing back a destroyed stand has a really good feeling to it. I am so close but I dont want to rush. I am getting very excited to finally be able to use it the way it was originally intended.


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6665253085_9edf9001b0_b.jpg


On a side note Damn you Kodak! I love your films and now the color 8x10 will be out the door! The other color film I like from Fuji they still make for special order in Japan but the person selling it wants $500 USD for 10 pcs of Fuji Fuji Astia 100F. CAn you believe that $500 usd for 10 pieces. $50 a sheet for film, I passed. That is straight out theft IMO.


Well back to the garage to drill some holes. If someone can please take a front 1:1 of the tilt handle I would greatly appreciate it, it would save me time and I can make one that looks right

[Steven Tribe]

Please, please - I have already had thanks enough!
Surely this an important ordinary function of this forum - helping each other?
I have received machined parts myself and sent odd's and ends to others that can be used by others rather than taking space in boxes.
Looks like it is going to be a very useable assembly.

[akfreak]

It is going to be useful. I got the brace fabricated, and everything is drilled and tapped. I need to make mt handle,just going to eyeball one I guess. I still need to fab the bottom brace and then I will start the body filler and final shaping.

The parts machined like billet, no problems with hardness, nice job on the bronze mix. Will keep u posted.

[akfreak]

Ok I just wanted to check one last time before I start fitting and mounting stuff.


I made my table 37 Inches long
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7015/6672310441_912f9ed3bb_z.jpg

And with the rear bracket of the screw drive positioned to the rear of the table the front overhang is 11 inches. Is this too excessive?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7019/6672310253_3e6328f40c_z.jpg

My wooden angle brace is 2o inches based on the information I have been given. I place the acme nut collar in the center of the threaded rod to simulate the table level position. Is this correct? Should there be more travel to tilt up or down? Any suggestions?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7028/6672310393_f5470cf2d1_z.jpg

I know my table is modeled after the 8A (the longer one) but this should only affect the front overhang. My camera. has two threaded holes on the bottom to attach to the table top and not fall off when at odd tilt angles. I wonder if making the table log was a mistake.
this is what the front overhand looks like with the table level.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7149/6672310307_7b48c6b860_z.jpg


I wont fully attach the camera to the table until I have used it to make sure I can loupe the ground glass with the lenses I have. I dont want a large lip in the rear to be in the way.

I wish I had a full blueprint before I started. My stand will work just fine, it is just slow going having to check and re check with no reference 9 a set of plans) to work from

I still need to make the Crank handle (HINT HINT HINT a front close up please), I have the bottom mount almost done. I plan to make some film holder pockets like the original had. But time is getting short I want to use it!

[Steven Tribe]

Don't forget the front cherry/mahogany strip across the front, which stops the camera sliding gently off the felt covered table!

[Harold_4074]

The original mechanism (on my stand, at least) does not use the full travel of the nut, partly because the table is supported by leaf hinges which are fully closed when the table is level. If the traveling nut can move beyond this point to lower the rear of the table, it will attempt to pry the hinges off of the cross rail.

In the original, the high-pitch multiple thread on the screw gives low enough mechanical advantage that it is easy to tell when to stop; with a finer pitch screw (and possibly a well-meaning but hapless visitor) the wood is at risk unless the traveling nut reaches the bracket before the hinges fully close. This geometry may or may not work with an historically accurate handle and bracket, because of interference with the underside of the table.

[akfreak]

Don't forget the front cherry/mahogany strip across the front, which stops the camera sliding gently off the felt covered table!


My camera has two female threaded inserts at the front on the outside framework that take a bolt thru the bottom of the table, this will hold the camera in place, no?

I have sen the little cherry strip at the front on most of the stands. Louis had the most complete stand collection. I would love to take a video with a tape measure of all of his stuff.


Thanks Steve for the input

[akfreak]

The original mechanism (on my stand, at least) does not use the full travel of the nut, partly because the table is supported by leaf hinges which are fully closed when the table is level. If the traveling nut can move beyond this point to lower the rear of the table, it will attempt to pry the hinges off of the cross rail.

In the original, the high-pitch multiple thread on the screw gives low enough mechanical advantage that it is easy to tell when to stop; with a finer pitch screw (and possibly a well-meaning but hapless visitor) the wood is at risk unless the traveling nut reaches the bracket before the hinges fully close. This geometry may or may not work with an historically accurate handle and bracket, because of interference with the underside of the table.


This is great info, I will take it all into consideration, Thanks

[Steven Tribe]

Just a piece of information to amuse you whilst you do the final jobs!
There is a splendid 8A (the 11x14" model) plus stand at an auction in the UK in a few days.
Guess what - it is missing exactly the same parts as yours did! The table has gone, complete with all the metal parts and the connecting beam just hangs loose at the front standard end. Looks like everyone found the same solution for minimising space.
No, Eddie, there are no lenses!

If anyone is interested in a doing an "Akfreak" use the PM to get in touch. Saving these Studio Cameras is important.

[Harold_4074]

In the spirit of preserving the heritage, I traced the crank handle on my stand, fitted it with fair curves and straight lines, and reconstructed the plan; it seems to have been laid out in simple fractions of an inch, give or take casting shrinkage and the precision of my mechanical pencil. If anybody wants to mass-produce them and has a CNC capability, I have all of the numbers...

For the record, however, I have attached an illustration drawn over an 0.2 inch grid. The hole for the screw is centered in the large end, but my knob shaft is offset from the center. This may be just sloppiness, or it may have been a cored hole that was misplaced in the casting. It's not a precision part, by any means---sand-cast, and hardly even deburred.

(Not sure what the file will look like after posting---in the thumbnail it is pretty obscure. Saving and opening in Adobe Reader should work though. )

[akfreak]

Just a piece of information to amuse you whilst you do the final jobs!
There is a splendid 8A (the 11x14" model) plus stand at an auction in the UK in a few days.
Guess what - it is missing exactly the same parts as yours did! The table has gone, complete with all the metal parts and the connecting beam just hangs loose at the front standard end. Looks like everyone found the same solution for minimising space.
No, Eddie, there are no lenses!

If anyone is interested in a doing an "Akfreak" use the PM to get in touch. Saving these Studio Cameras is important.


He is 1000% right. Saving these is so important. I do know know why people destroy such wonderful pieces of history. Steve will fix you up, he is a great person to know if you want restore a stand.

[akfreak]

In the spirit of preserving the heritage, I traced the crank handle on my stand, fitted it with fair curves and straight lines, and reconstructed the plan; it seems to have been laid out in simple fractions of an inch, give or take casting shrinkage and the precision of my mechanical pencil. If anybody wants to mass-produce them and has a CNC capability, I have all of the numbers...

For the record, however, I have attached an illustration drawn over an 0.2 inch grid. The hole for the screw is centered in the large end, but my knob shaft is offset from the center. This may be just sloppiness, or it may have been a cored hole that was misplaced in the casting. It's not a precision part, by any means---sand-cast, and hardly even deburred.

(Not sure what the file will look like after posting---in the thumbnail it is pretty obscure. Saving and opening in Adobe Reader should work though. )


Thanks very much, I will use this as a template to build my handle. I will use aluminum.and a bronze insert at the connection to the steel. I dont know if I can reproduce the edge profile, but the basic shape is what I was after. I will use an carbide router bit to create the edge detail. All will be just fine from 2 feet away ;)

[Steven Tribe]

There is one final article you need! The turned wood handle.

[John Conway]

Congrats on the project. She is coming along very nicely. I just bought an Ansco studio camera with stand from a nice fella in Ohio. I still have not gone out to pick up the camera. I will have plenty of time on the ride out to get it to dream about the restoration. I will be in the same boat as you. Mine is missing the back so I will probably be contacting Eddie for a back. The 8x10 backs are hard to find, the 5x7 backs are everywhere. Mine is gray as well, but I think the Ansco studio cameras were offered in gray. I'm still undecided about the finish. I might strip it, or restore it to original gray. I read that they were avaiable in gray with red bellows and all metal finished in nickel. I would love to see one of those. Anyway, yours is coming along real nice. Can't wait to see her finished.

[akfreak]

Ok I got it all fitted up, I need to make my bottom brace as well as the crank arm and wooden handle.

On a side note, looking at other Master studio stands, my threaded rod looks short, but it will work never less.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7030/6694277159_5edfa8da07_b.jpg
See the rod length, I wish I had asked more people who own a master to measure the threaded rod to check for the exact length. You see there is a there is a 10a stand, a master studio and 8a/2a combo that I know of. I know mine is a Master and the Master was the Only stand to have the holder space between the uprights. I wonder is the rod is different from a 10a? I am almost sure I used a 10a stand as the threaded rod reference. A little late now dont you think? I will just have to go with mine, it has some of that home made character, ;)

Here is where I am on this. I only get time to do a little bit at a time, progress is so slow. I wish I had 2 days to just knock this out. It is getting more exciting to see how it is going to be sitting in its final position.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7166/6694137149_fb25dd89cc_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7155/6694137429_b87ac467d7_z.jpg

I will try to get in the machine shop tomorrow, but if not it will be a week at least before I can make the handle and base support.

More to come

[Steven Tribe]

My last post seems to been lost so..
The big photo of the Master you show is wrong!!
When the table is level the threaded nut should be in the middle position - obvious really. Remember that the crank must clear the rear of the table.

[Louis Pacilla]

[QUOTE=akfreak;
On a side note, looking at other Master studio stands, my threaded rod looks short, but it will work never less.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7030/6694277159_5edfa8da07_b.jpg
See the rod length, I wish I had asked more people who own a master to measure the threaded rod to check for the exact length. You see there is a there is a 10a stand, a master studio and 8a/2a combo that I know of. I know mine is a Master and the Master was the Only stand to have the holder space between the uprights. I wonder is the rod is different from a 10a? I am almost sure I used a 10a stand as the threaded rod reference. A little late now dont you think? I will just have to go with mine, it has some of that home made character, ;)








Hey akfreak, not sure if anyone answered your question . I have a 10a/1a as well as Century Master Camera/ Century Master Stand. The tilt rod on 10a is around 7" while the tilt rod on the Master Stand is 14" so about twice the travel n the Master Platform.

Great job BTW.

[akfreak]

@ Louis, Yes I knew I had a problem when I saw the rod in my hands. The sick thing is when I got it, it was 22 inches long and cut it down to the size I was given. I can get a new rod but what a Pain in the A$$ it is to redo it at this point. If it bothers me that much in the future I will change it out. I have lots of travel it just means I cannot point it on the floor as much. People think you can point the camera up but you cant without ripping the front table hinges off the stand. The assy is to point the camera down correct? So I just have less adjustment!

Louis can you measure your master studio stand so it can serve as a reference to others who may have to deal with this in the future.

Drawings of the sizes of the pockets would be great.

The rod length with detail like the exact length, how much sticks out of the back and the front rod supports.

It looks like 3 inches in the front sticking out past the support and maybe 1/4" in the rear.

Also the wooden angle support member. What is the size of that LxWxH If you like I can send you pictures of the stand at each angle and you can fill in the blanks.

Thanks Louis

[akfreak]

My last post seems to been lost so..
The big photo of the Master you show is wrong!!
When the table is level the threaded nut should be in the middle position - obvious really. Remember that the crank must clear the rear of the table.

Actuallt Steve the nut cant be in the middle, you see there is no table adjustment to pint the camera up, that would rip the front table hinges out, the table is designed to point the camera down only. With the nut at the back I can get full travel to point the camera down.

Also the rod length you gave me is not correct for my stand, it may be for a 10a but the master stand (which I have) is much different. I went off all the sizes you gave me but they aren't correct for my stand. With that said, the shorter thread changes the angle and the handle does clear. I had to make some sour of the moment adjustments to the front of the table does not stick out of the front of the stand so far.

I made my table longer than normal (mine is the length of an 8A stand) if I were to put that thread at the back of the table and the handle sticking out past the table it would over lap the front 15 inches. At this point I cant afford to redo the assembly. If I would of made the threaded rod longer 14" and had left 4 inches or so at the rear past the bearing, I would of been able to position the handle in the proper position. And my table would not stick out so far. To replace the thread t will cost me 50 bucks or so. I will just live with it for now, the brackets will have to do, however I am quite sure they too are different in angle and length on a master vs a 10A


In the end, I am serving as a guinea pig and the people who choose to follow will not have to make the same mistakes as I.

It really isn't that big of a deal. I would of liked the assembly to be right but I just want to use my camera at this point. So if the camera will sit level and remotely looks like it should I am happy.

[Steven Tribe]

My stand is set up for down and up movement. Only about 10 degrees up and down. The hinges are not in the way.
If you have the "short" thread at the very end of the maxi-table you will have reduced angles - perhaps 5 degrees up and down which should be good enough for the portrait set-up with normal sized people!

[OldCrow]

Okay I think I can shine some light on the threaded rod issue. Being I have three out of the four designs of stands that came with a century studio from 1898 to 1954 and seeing that even though they look close to being the same, they are not.

The centennial stands have a shorter rod and mount further back on the platform, and they have a different pitch in the wooden brace. Some centennial stands even came with a brass adjustable brace they you could adjust the length up to give you either more or less pitch in the up and down tilt of the camera.

The master stand had a longer threaded rod and the set wooden brace. While it did not have the ability to be adjusted for pitch, it was far stronger. Also there was a 8A specific master stand. This stand had a longer platform. Yet if have not spent a good amount of time around these cameras, they would all look the same. Expect the differences between the centennial 1 or 2, and the master. The 1 or 2 are not as over built as the Master. They have smaller casters and their cast iron pieces have cut aways to reduce the weight and bulk.

Ak, all you need to do is move the handle and threaded rod to the place where it needs to be and make a longer wood brace and mount it up on top of the carrier beam that is under the square storage bins under the camera, between them, and it works just fine. This is what I did with my frankenstein 7A. Works just great. only took 10 mins to do.

I will take pics if you want to see it.

[akfreak]

Okay I think I can shine some light on the threaded rod issue. Being I have three out of the four designs of stands that came with a century studio from 1898 to 1954 and seeing that even though they look close to being the same, they are not.

The centennial stands have a shorter rod and mount further back on the platform, and they have a different pitch in the wooden brace. Some centennial stands even came with a brass adjustable brace they you could adjust the length up to give you either more or less pitch in the up and down tilt of the camera.

The master stand had a longer threaded rod and the set wooden brace. While it did not have the ability to be adjusted for pitch, it was far stronger. Also there was a 8A specific master stand. This stand had a longer platform. Yet if have not spent a good amount of time around these cameras, they would all look the same. Expect the differences between the centennial 1 or 2, and the master. The 1 or 2 are not as over built as the Master. They have smaller casters and their cast iron pieces have cut aways to reduce the weight and bulk.

Ak, all you need to do is move the handle and threaded rod to the place where it needs to be and make a longer wood brace and mount it up on top of the carrier beam that is under the square storage bins under the camera, between them, and it works just fine. This is what I did with my frankenstein 7A. Works just great. only took 10 mins to do.

I will take pics if you want to see it.

Yes I would love to see it. All I know is this. I 100% have a master studio stand. I also know 100% the way the hinges are set the table is not designed to have the table adjusted pointing upward, if you tried to do this it will rip the hinges off the main cross block that the hinges are screwed to. (unless there is some sort of under table reverse double hinge mechanism I cant see or done have.

I also know that my threaded rod is 100% the wrong length, for me that isn't that big of a deal. Stop, Stop Stop!

Who am I kidding it is a big deal to me, it is frustrating to know I cut down a 22" acme 1/2-10 to the 7" dimension thinking that I was doing the right thing. A little mistake at that stage changes everything. Its not the $ that is frustrating it is the time and effort spent doing something wrong. I dont have lots of spare time to work on this and this set back had me scratching my head. I know I could half ass it and just look the other way, but I really cant. I will always know I half ass'ed it and this is not my style at all.

100% of me wants to stop and do it right, so I guess this is what I am going to do. I am going to order another thread and start this damn thing over. I will update you in a month, or how ever long it takes to find the time to remake the rod.

Machine shop time is scarce. I feel like I am really pushing my luck if I ask too many times to have access to the shop. I know using the machines cost money, even though my friend wont take money. It still makes me feel bad but if I go to a shop they will bend me over for every penny. This is 100% my fault I did not do better homework. So I am really pissed at myself.

So here goes, I am in need for someones help. Someone who 100% for sure has a master studio stand and is willing to grab a tape measure to please fill in the blanks for me based on my crappy diagram. Also there are other measurements that will help me make my pockets for film holders and to remake the wooden support brace!

A=
B=
C=
D=, ect...


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7014/6699526719_fd91274a21_b.jpg


I went from excited to disappointed real quick when I work up this morning. thinking on it all day at work, I just knew I had to remake the acme threaded rod and this would delay the project even further. I know I could just let this slide but I would not respect myself for doing so. This camera and stand deserve my best effort even if it turns out like a POS! I will know I did my best. AKf

[Steven Tribe]

Remember the acme thread prepared for the commonest centenial stand will find a very happy buyer!

[OldCrow]

I have a master stand right in front of me, I will grab the tape measure and get the numbers for you first thing in the morning.

You will get it figured out. I am suspecting someone may have swapped things around at one time or something of the sort.

We wil get it under control.

Also I have some spare master studio stand parts hanging around. like the film pockets...

[akfreak]

cool, thanks, I will order a new thread Monday morning and start again,

[cowanw]

Have you seen this yet?
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=85717

[OldCrow]

Have you seen this yet?
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=85717

That is a centennial No. 1 stand. The Master stand is very different.

[Louis Pacilla]

OK AK

Here you go.

The compartments underneath the stand are made 3/8" wood veneer but the bottoms are doubled up so 3/4" made of doubled up 3/8" tongue and grove for strength.


hope this helps.


Peace

[akfreak]

Have you seen this yet?
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=85717

yes I saw it that stamd and measurements from it are why I am having to redo mine. A master studio is way different

[akfreak]

ok I have ordered a new threaded rod. As much as is sucks to do so, I will be able to sleep at night ;) So I will keep you posted. I left PM's and look forward to hearing from you guys. Tom

[akfreak]

This is for reference for anyone restoring a master studio stand, this is the threaded assembly I plan to use, It is not exact but it will be the one I build when I get access to the machine shop again.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6705982829_e905c11230_b.jpg

[akfreak]

Well I haven't had a chance to get in the machine shop, so I had to use a drill press and a tap to make my base support at home.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7026/6747700329_a4534d85f6_z.jpg

It is made of three pieces of 6061-T6 billet aluminum, held together with 4 socket head cap screws. I think the little base support will hold the weight. It is not a single steel cast like the original, but it is pretty sturdy to me. I will round it up on the edges and make it look more original, then paint it black.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7009/6747699789_33987696bc_z.jpg

I also made a temp crank arm until I can water-jet a perfect shaped one. (my temp one is in the rear behind the proper paper template)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7168/6747701019_771b107e32_z.jpg

My new lead screw ships out on Monday. I should have it by Wednesday which is exciting because I am off and can go to the machine shop and turn down and fit it to my bearings.

I will most likely have to shim the cast brackets Steve made for me due to the different angle. I think some zinc washers will work pretty good. After I get all of the parts fitting and functioning, I will then tear them down and do my metal finishing and adding of filler, and painting.

Any recommendations of where to the wrinkle black paint to replicate the original finish? Still a long way to go, but baby steps are inching me closer and closer.

[benrains]

Nice work on this! I wonder what the deal is with people painting these cameras and stands? It seems like somewhere around a third of all the large studio cameras and stands I've encountered have been repainted at some point in their lives, often multiple times.

[Peter De Smidt]

Thanks very much for posting all of this. I have one that I'd like to restore, once I have time, and this info will be very useful.

[akfreak]

Nice work on this! I wonder what the deal is with people painting these cameras and stands? It seems like somewhere around a third of all the large studio cameras and stands I've encountered have been repainted at some point in their lives, often multiple times.

Institutions, factorys, hospitals, ect... All used to paint everything grey with an enamil so it could be cleaned and not absorb oils, dirt,debris, funfus, ect... So I have been told. When they sealed it up with enamel paint it was eaier to keep clean and it matched all the rest of the stuff in the area. People used to use these type's of cameras for ID's, Portraits for Managment, Copy work, ect... Until digital studio cameras were the way all of this media was generated. This is what I gathered while doing searches into this camera and asking the same question.

Sorry for any typos I am on my cell phone driving very fast. ;OOO

[Steven Tribe]

You can remove quite a lot from the base of the two supports to change the angle - there is enough metal there. But large soft metal washers would work just as well.

[akfreak]

Ok I got my Proper lead screw and a chance to play on the lathe. So I will be able to finally fit all my parts ant test the table tilt mech.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7012/6761902461_03fcfe803b_z.jpg

Now I cam sleep at night knowing, I didn't just settle. I want this to at least from a distance look like a real master stand when I am done.

I have a lead on some original film holder pockets, so things are looking up. I wont have to the and match the wood from scratch. But I will have to strip off some grey paint again. Not like I haven't dont that before.;O))

[akfreak]

Coming along, got to spend a few hours working on the restoration. I believer it looks more like a master now. Still not 100% but much closer. I need to make my crank arm, I made the handle already.

The stand functions like a champ. Has a ton of angle adjustment. I can turn the lead screw easily with my fingers to make adjustment. With the camera on it is still easy, When I have the handle it will be super east.

I can finally get along with refinishing the wood and matching the stains, ect....

I used red oak in some of spots where strength is needed, (the angle brace,) I plan to use body filer on the brackets and make them look good before I paint them.

I had to use washers under the acme thread brackets. I might cut some brass rods and hollow them out as a stand off's to get the proper angle instead of washers. There is no way to could remove enough material on the bottom to get the proper angle. A 10A and Master studio stand are way way different.

Now my mistakes will help all who follow, if they dare to try a restoration. You cant tell there is any sort of problem (with the brackets(gaps on the back side) when the table top is on and it is in working orientation.

See what you think
Bottom support installed
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7165/6769472265_a733433b94_z.jpg
Angle brace fitted
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7011/6769474885_829f30f5dc_z.jpg
Under table cross brace and hinge attach point
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7017/6769473231_85a9918b67_z.jpg
Table fitted and level
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7005/6769473841_3449c60acd_z.jpg

[akfreak]

Some Tilt, no effort at all.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7032/6769474411_be5bb1e974_z.jpg
And the camera on the table. I think the table is the perfect length.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7170/6769475189_25cb6013e0_z.jpg

[Harold_4074]

akfreak,

Would you like a .dxf or .dwg of the crank handle? I developed the profile in Autocad, and if you are going to waterjet it you can probably go directly from the file.

Harold

[akfreak]

Harold I work with several 3D packages, I have it in a .obj file, thanks AKf

[akfreak]

Thanks for the offer, I have it as a .obj file type. I am not into cad but I am a 3d motion graphics artist so making a file in a 3d packages was easy. I just needed the shape and edge profiles..

[akfreak]

I'm guessing it's too late since it seems you already have the parts but acetal ( Delrin ) comes in
black, Polytetrafluorethylene ( Teflon ) is going to be difficult if not impossible to paint.

I wanted to respond, Nylon can be boiled any Dyed to any color. When I said Teflon,I meant to say a nylon type of material. I have a big block of it.

[akfreak]

akfreak,

Would you like a .dxf or .dwg of the crank handle? I developed the profile in Autocad, and if you are going to waterjet it you can probably go directly from the file.

Harold

Harold, if you have already made the file, can I peek at it, it would save time for me if you already did it, Thanks

[Jim C.]

I wanted to respond, Nylon can be boiled any Dyed to any color. When I said Teflon,I meant to say a nylon type of material. I have a big block of it.

Nylon can be dyed, but the dye only penetrates so much, in your case
it's a hidden area so it'll be fine.
I have a large block of white delrin I bought years ago that I've been
slowly whittling away at for various work projects. Always good to have
a stock of materials handy.

[akfreak]

Agreed, it is important to have materials to do things when you need to. I miss my shop. I had all sorts of machines, welders and scrap everything. Now working out of a packed garage makes me miss it even more. The simplest little tasks take forever it seems. Also the cost and time of fetching odds and ends starts to add up. I dont know how many hours I am into this project, but I know I could of bought a stand cheaper for sure.

[akfreak]

I had to cut my own crank handle
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7039/6864646479_d7cbaa81cb_z.jpg
the knob until i mad a wood one is marble
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7207/6864647603_4813829c7c_z.jpg

[akfreak]

OK I am starting the rough in process for the handle in steel. It give it that home made look, I dont think that is a good thing :) but It will be fine when I am done.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7054/6871472031_96d3b36e81_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7050/6871471639_844b6a7bc5_z.jpg

[ic-racer]

I love it!

[Harold_4074]

Actually, if mine is anything to go by, that "home made look" will be a considerable step up in workmanship. Sandblast it or mix some sand into flat black paint and it will look just like the cast original. Be sure to drill the hole for the knob axle off-center, for real authenticity :)

[akfreak]

Thanks for the kind words. I dont have a real close up to work from I am just using thee profile info from the PDF and doing what I think looks good

[Roger Thoms]

Agreed, it is important to have materials to do things when you need to. I miss my shop. I had all sorts of machines, welders and scrap everything. Now working out of a packed garage makes me miss it even more. The simplest little tasks take forever it seems. Also the cost and time of fetching odds and ends starts to add up. I dont know how many hours I am into this project, but I know I could of bought a stand cheaper for sure.

Yeah but you brought a irreplaceable camera back from the bring, plus I'm sure I'm not the only one who has really enjoyed following this thread. Also I build and fix a lot of things (carpenter by trade) and there is much satisfaction in that. Great job on the resoration, looks like your getting close to completion.

Roger

[Steven Tribe]

I think we have reached a stage in the restoration when we can see that the female thread replacement insert and easily available acme threads does produce a very good solution. When the weather gets better (March/April) I will produce more of the angle mounts in aluminium which I cast for akfreak. Those already on the list do need not contact me again.

[akfreak]

@ Roger, All I need to do now Is Set screw the bearrings, Do final work work, Fill and sand all of the cast parts. Paint them. Route the table top edge (Roman Ogee). Build the film holder pockets. Make my table top front camera stop. Inset the pattern on the front fascia. Find some crackle paint for all of the stand Iron parts, Find that red felt. Drill the table top to mount the camera via the threaded inserts. Make a left hand focusing knob, built retaining collars and pins for the focus knobs. Light tight the bellows. Complete fianl finish in the camera and stand and install emblems, attachment brackets, make a proper wooden crank handle, ect, ect... Yeah I am in the final 6 months of this project,;)

I did get the crank handle fitted to the acme thread, now I can do the final profile work on it. This project is just fun to work on but it's going to be a while until my Voigtlander Collinear Series II NO.8 f6.3 sees the front of the camera again

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7200/6874639777_aa86d29110_z.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7059/6874640031_d91b1fac3f_z.jpg

[Steven Tribe]

This thread has been hibernating for some time, so I thought I would just check on general progress and repeat what I said earlier about doing aluminium casting for anyone else who wants to go down this route for restoration of the semi-centenial stand mechanism! Terms are as last year, that is, postage costs.

[cyrus]

Can anyone give me the dimensions of the bellows on a Century Studio 10a? I would like to order a bellows but the one on mine does not seem original and I'm not sure if it is the right size.

[Captain_joe6]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6046/5904099613_b0c9317b0c_z.jpg
That little latch at the top and bottom look like some sort of holder for a plate of some sort. If anyone can tell me what that is designed to hold I would appreciate it.


Those latches held in various blockout plates for making 2 images side-by-side with a sliding back.

[Steven Tribe]

First of all, I have requested that one of the many helpful mods move this thread over to the DIY section which came after this thread started!

These camera were in use during many generations of photographers/photography and the fashion for studio portraits changed, as did the quality of dry plates and film. Small town studios were probably not that wealthy and perhaps used ad hoc solutions rather than conversion sets available from Eastman Kodak.

I have a number of "home-made" conversion backs all of which are well-made and work as they should.

I enclose photos of a back that would probably would fit yours - showing the the latching on mechanism. This is done by putting a hand through the 5x7" hole.

Thanks for doing the move dear Mod!