7x17 film holder on Epson V700 - not working...

[Lachlan 717]

I've been mucking around with some black perspex and a milling machine, trying to make a 7x17 film holder for a V700.

The idea is to be able to use the "Super High Res" lens on the scanner, rather than the lower res used when using the Film Area Guide. The images will then be stitched.

The holder has an opening roughly the same area as the scanning area, with a milled area overhanging the end of the scanner that supports the film. After the first scan, the film is then turned around for the other end to be scanned.

Anyway, I hope you get the idea.

The trouble is that I cannot seem to get the scanner to run a scan. It works fine with the Film Area Guide, but not with the holder. (And now my Betterscan holder won't work).

So, can anyone tell me if there is some kind of "kill switch" when using bigger images that prevents scanning? If so, can it be overridden?

I have tried both Epsonscan and Silverfast with no luck.

Thanks.

[Nathan Potter]

Lachlan, I also have a home built holder and cannot get a scan with it using the higher resolution lens on my V750. I have a hunch that the preview shows the scanner that the file is too big to handle. Dunno. I've abandoned the attempt for now.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Leigh]

If you look at the hinge end of the factory film holder you'll see a group of small triangular holes centered near the edge.

This is a binary code that the scanner reads to know which holder is in place and the number, size, and location of the originals.

Without a code for 7x17 in your holder at the correct location, you're not going to make it work regardless of how hard you try.

You could contact Epson to see if such a code exists, but I rather doubt it.

- Leigh

[Lachlan 717]

If you look at the hinge end of the factory film holder you'll see a group of small triangular holes centered near the edge.

This is a binary code that the scanner reads to know which holder is in place and the number, size, and location of the originals.

Without a code for 7x17 in your holder at the correct location, you're not going to make it work regardless of how hard you try.

You could contact Epson to see if such a code exists, but I rather doubt it.

- Leigh

Very interesting, Leigh, and also very helpful, I hope. Many thanks for letting me know.

I might try to copy the 4x5 holes and see if they allow me to scan a wider area of the glass. Nothing to lose...

[Leigh]

You might ask if they have a code for "User Defined" or "Custom".

That would give the best chance of success for what you want to do, if the scanner and software will support it.

- Leigh

[SMBooth]

I assume your using the 8x10 area of the glass if your scanning 7x17 inch, the film guide for that area has no coding hole just a 12mm space at the back for setting the white balance that needs to be kept clear. If you base your scanner holder on that it should be OK.

Soory just read yopur trying to use the hi rez area, I think thats limited to 5in wide

[Lachlan 717]

So as to help, here's the holder in question:

[Leigh]

So as to help, here's the holder in question:
I thought you meant 7cm x 17cm, not 7" x 17". It does help to specify.

You can't do 7" width at high res. You might try turning it 90° and doing it in three scans roughly 5.7" x 7".

The active area for high res is something over 5" wide, but I can't find the spec.

The 35mm mounted slide holder, which works in high res, has an active area of 5.5" x 8.5", so it will scan at least that large an area.

You will still have the problem of identifying the format to the scanner.

- Leigh

[Lachlan 717]

I thought you meant 7cm x 17cm, not 7" x 17". It does help to specify.


Given 7x17 is a well recognised format, and that I wrote the following, I didn't think that I needed to specify in inches.

"The holder has an opening roughly the same area as the scanning area, with a milled area overhanging the end of the scanner that supports the film. After the first scan, the film is then turned around for the other end to be scanned".

Sorry for the confusion.

[Leigh]

Given 7x17 is a well recognised format...
Perhaps it is, but I've never heard of it.

Pardon me for trying to help. I shan't make that mistake again.

- Leigh

[Lachlan 717]

Perhaps it is, but I've never heard of it.

Pardon me for trying to help. I shan't make that mistake again.

- Leigh

Pardon me for apologising to you for not being more specific; I shan't make that mistake again.

I notice that your help seems to come with a price tag of then having to accept your grumpy and condescending comments further down the line.

So, thanks for your initial input. As I stated, it was greatly appreciated. However, don't bother assisting me in future.

[SMBooth]

Lachlan, I still think you need to copy the cut out at the back like the film guide. You only seem to have some small half circles.

[Lachlan 717]

Lachlan, I still think you need to copy the cut out at the back like the film guide. You only seem to have some small half circles.

Thanks for the advice. My thoughts, too.

I've been in touch with Epson in a hope to obtain the hole registry that Leigh referred to. I'll probably mill out the section that you refer to if/when I get these details.

I tried to gauge the maximum scanning width with the 4x5 holder. It seems that it represents a width close to that Epson quotes on their website as 8.5" x 11.7" (216 x 297mm).

If Epson doesn't get back to me, I'm probably going to mimic the holes on the 4x5 holder and see what I get.

Thanks again for your input.

[SMBooth]

I did a little test, maybe you have done this yourself. But if you use the film guide on the glass and tell the scanner you using a film holder you get about a 6 inch wide scan, and about 9 1/2 long

[Tony Evans]

The area is 5.9 x 9.7 inches according to EpsonScan. Tell the Document type is "Film (with Film Holder)". Preview result will tell you "Can't find Document". Just close this and click on Normal View (not Thumbnail). Marque your image and scan.

[Nathan Potter]

Leigh, do make that mistake again. Anything you and others can contribute here is valuable to me and others.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Doug Fisher]

Lachlan -

You need to have the calibration gap as others have mentioned AND in the right place AND you cannot let any film (or anything) cover any part of that gap. I am guessing you my film holder down on to the scanner in the wrong orientation or covered part of the calibration gap when you experienced that it also produced a recognition problem. Excess film is going to have to flow out over the other end of the scanner. The film format coding holes are not worth the effort and there aren't any for that specific format anyway. As others have suggested, go into Professional mode and draw your marquees manually (see the top section of this link if you are not familiar with how to do that: http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/batchscanning.html).

Doug
---
www.BetterScanning.com

[Daniel Lancaster]

I thought you meant 7cm x 17cm, not 7" x 17". It does help to specify.

- Leigh

Leigh no need to get upset mate. This is LFPF and '7x17' is fairly well traveled ground and universally understood. Certainly around here...

Lachlan I am loving this concept - keep us posted! :)

[cdholden]

Lachlan,
I don't even own a scanner, so take this with a grain of salt. Most of the software I work with is proprietary and non-photo related, but one thing I have noticed that many applications have in common: they usually have a set of configuration values stored the the registry (on Windows) or in a .conf file (MacOS or other UNIX-like OS). If you find from tech support that it's a configuration problem, ask if there is a registry value you can change or config/initialization setting you can change in the OS. Sometimes making a generic application work with unsupported hardware can be done if you just know what and how to ask.
Best of luck,
Chris

[Lachlan 717]

Lachlan -

You need to have the calibration gap as others have mentioned AND in the right place AND you cannot let any film (or anything) cover any part of that gap. I am guessing you my film holder down on to the scanner in the wrong orientation or covered part of the calibration gap when you experienced that it also produced a recognition problem. Excess film is going to have to flow out over the other end of the scanner. The film format coding holes are not worth the effort and there aren't any for that specific format anyway. As others have suggested, go into Professional mode and draw your marquees manually (see the top section of this link if you are not familiar with how to do that: http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/batchscanning.html).

Doug
---
www.BetterScanning.com

Many thanks, Doug. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

I'm starting to understand why you avoided making me one if these with a barge-pole!!

[Lachlan 717]

Lachlan I am loving this concept - keep us posted! :)

Will do, Daniel.

[Lachlan 717]

Lachlan,
I don't even own a scanner, so take this with a grain of salt. Most of the software I work with is proprietary and non-photo related, but one thing I have noticed that many applications have in common: they usually have a set of configuration values stored the the registry (on Windows) or in a .conf file (MacOS or other UNIX-like OS). If you find from tech support that it's a configuration problem, ask if there is a registry value you can change or config/initialization setting you can change in the OS. Sometimes making a generic application work with unsupported hardware can be done if you just know what and how to ask.
Best of luck,
Chris

You got me into this mess, Chris, so only fair that you try to help me get out of it!

Seriously, though, thanks for the tip. I'll see whether I can use this advice if Doug's doesn't work.

Regards,

Lachlan.

[Lachlan 717]

Update:

Good news, then bad news and finally goodish news.

First, I got the scanner to work. Going on Doug and Shane's insights, I simply moved the holder a couple of millimetres down the scanner bed and off it went. Obviously, I need to check the top of the holder in a bit. Easy.

Then the bad news. The scan is not 7" wide. Pity. However, it is 6"/150mm wide, so I lose a little on each side.

Finally, the goodish news. I can either crop a bit from the top and/or bottom, or I can do a 4 part stitch. All using images from the super high res lens.

All in all, a satisfactory outcome from my point of view, as I was dreading not being able to use the super high res lens at all! So, I can now get pretty good quality scans on a V700. Cheap and somewhat easy way to scan 7x17 (inches, Leigh, inches…)

A big thanks to all for your insights, help and advice.

[SMBooth]

Great, anyway with all that film real estate you can afford to frame a bit looser to allow a two part stitch. What file sizes you getting?

[wiggywag]

So as to help, here's the holder in question:

Hows the going with the 7x17 film holder for Epson V700? Does it work well for you? Would like to do something like that for myself as well :-)

[Lachlan 717]

Hows the going with the 7x17 film holder for Epson V700? Does it work well for you? Would like to do something like that for myself as well :-)

It all seemed to get too hard…

I now just use the film guide on the low res lens and stitch, but the image quality is still amazing. Simply scan one end, then flip the film and get the other end.

The image below is a massive downsample from the original 500meg file (scanned at 900dpi).

81461

[wiggywag]

It all seemed to get too hard…

I now just use the film guide on the low res lens and stitch, but the image quality is still amazing. Simply scan one end, then flip the film and get the other end.

The image below is a massive downsample from the original 500meg file (scanned at 900dpi).

81461

Nice photo. Do you just lay the neg flat on the glass and scan, or do you mount it somehow? Have you tried wet mounting? I was thinking about wet mounting the negatives on a sufficient size of glass (8x18" or something) with negative facing down and then flip the film and glass and get the other end. If I use a glass I without a holder I guess that glass must be pretty thick not to break in the process.

[Lachlan 717]

I think that you'll have focus issues if you add glass, as you'll be raising the film above the lower res lens' focus point (i.e. the existing glass).

You'll also possibly introduce Newton Rings with the glass-on-glass contact.

I simply lay the film, emulsion down, on the glass, using the 8x10 film guide.

(Thanks for the compliment as well!!)

[wiggywag]

I would make the negative face down against the scanner and the glass go up, like Scanscience do with their holders.

[Kerik Kouklis]

It all seemed to get too hard…

I now just use the film guide on the low res lens and stitch, but the image quality is still amazing. Simply scan one end, then flip the film and get the other end.

The image below is a massive downsample from the original 500meg file (scanned at 900dpi).

81461

Do you ever get Newton rings this way? I've done the same thing with 7x17 negs and sometimes have to fight the rings.

[Lachlan 717]

Do you ever get Newton rings this way? I've done the same thing with 7x17 negs and sometimes have to fight the rings.

Never. Simply, you just need to make sure that the film is emulsion-side down!