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lbenac
4-Jun-2011, 08:52
Hello,

I received yesterday my new Chamonix 45-N2.
First thing first - it is superb. Everything looks smooth and of good quality.
I mounted a Nikkor 75/4.5 on a normal lens board (Copal 0).
I bolted the front standard on the closest hole to the back standard. Pushed the back standard as close as possible to the front standard including with the swing controls.
So as far as I can tell I have the shortest possible distance between the two standards.
The 75/4.5 does not focus at infinity at 4.5. If I close down to F11 as far as I can tell with a loupe I am in focus but it feels touch and go.


Am I missing something (likely)
Is it that at such short focal lens and large aperture, it is not possible to see the plane of focus at infinity?
Or do I need a recessed board?

When I researched this previously indications were that for a 45-N1 there was no need for a recessed board with this focal length - but the minimum distance on the 45-N2 has been increased to 52mm which should still be enough?

Note that I am used to focus medium format on ground glass.

Thanks for any input.

Cheers,

Luc

vinny
4-Jun-2011, 10:21
Not sure what you're doing but there shouldn't be a problem with this lens. I use a 65mm w/o any issues on that camera. Sounds like the standards are TOO close.

engl
4-Jun-2011, 13:51
I have read about people using 47mm and 58mm lenses on the Chamonix 4x5 (both versions, flat board), so you should not have any problem with a 75mm. There is also a thread around here somewhere where members confirm around 50mm minimum bellows draw, which is way shorter than the flange focal distance of a Nikon 75/4.5 (81mm). Sure you are not focused beyond infinity? Back moved all the way forward and front standard all the way back? Have you used the lens before on other cameras? I've read about some samples of the 75/4.5 being unacceptably soft at big apertures, to the point where focusing is not possible.

This thread has a picture of a 47mm XL on a flat board on the 045-N1:
http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2643
Even without registering you can see the small thumbnail, which is enough to show the camera, flat board and 47mm XL.

stevebrot
4-Jun-2011, 14:31
Luc,
Congratulations on your new Chamonix! The 75 should mount with no issues with a flat lens board. It is not real obvious, but minimum bellows draw is attained by:

unlock the rear standard rail adjusters (bottom side of wheel pair)
move these forward to the end of their travel and retighten
loosen the rear standard adjusters (top side of wheel pair) and move the rear standard forward until you get infinity focus
tighten and and enjoy!

I supposed I should take a few digital pics and post the sequence to Flickr or something ;)


Steve


(They really should package a manual with the camera or at least make one available online to download.)

willwilson
4-Jun-2011, 15:24
Steve basically summed it up. You achieve minimum extension in the third front standard hole from the front. Then use the rear standard adjustment wheels to loosen the rear standard and move it as close as needed. I believe I shoot my 75mm in the 2nd hole from the front but you have to shoot a 47mm and 65mm in the third hole. You could shoot a wide in a front standard hole even further back but you would get veniyetting.

lbenac
4-Jun-2011, 18:56
Thanks all for the explanation.
I can now focus the 75@F4.5 at infinity.
For this I need to bring the back standard all the way forward as described and I need to use the closest the hole the farest from the front standrad.
WIth this I have focus at infinity and can us the focus helicoid to focus closer I needed.
I am wondering how I would do if I had a wider lens like a 65mm...

After a few minutes under the darkcloth in the sun, I am reconsidering getting the hood from Chamonix :o



Cheers,

Luc

stevebrot
4-Jun-2011, 23:36
Thanks all for the explanation.
I can now focus the 75@F4.5 at infinity.
For this I need to bring the back standard all the way forward as described and I need to use the closest the hole the farest from the front standrad.
WIth this I have focus at infinity and can us the focus helicoid to focus closer I needed.
I am wondering how I would do if I had a wider lens like a 65mm...

After a few minutes under the darkcloth in the sun, I am reconsidering getting the hood from Chamonix :o



Cheers,

Luc


Luc,
The back standard actually goes a lot further forward than in your photos above. The tightener wheel can be positioned further forward by loosening the bottom wheel of the set. I think I owned the camera for about a week before I figured that out. For full extension you do the opposite and position the tighteners fully at the rear to allow the rear standard to hang out over the bottom plate.

Speaking of your photos of the camera...It does indeed look pretty sharp perched on the Berlebach. The wood is a close match, though I think black camera hardware would have been even better. (I am partial to the darker finish hardware on the teak Chamonix.)

I have to laugh regarding your darkcloth experience. I totally agree. Things get hot and stuffy fast. I remember one session last summer where I hiked up a steep trail for about 30 minutes to take a streamside photo. The humidity was high and I was sweaty and the short story is that I almost immediately steamed both the groundglass and the +4 reading glasses I require for focusing. This happened each time I flipped the jacket I was using for a darkcloth over my head. I finally cooled down enough to take the photo! I have a friend that sews and we have talked about making a cloth out of white black-out material such is used for window shades.

BTW...the steamy photo session worked out well and produced the photo below as well as a few others:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/4784144545_67a34c40bb_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28796087@N02/4784144545/)


Steve

lbenac
5-Jun-2011, 08:33
Hello Steve,

I got it. I moved the maximum position of the back standard as you suggested. I still need to put the front standard in the very last hole closest to the back but it opens some further adjustemnet if needed to reduce the distance between the two standard.
So I have found a position that will allows for the 75 and for the 300 to focus at infinity without unlocking the bottom wheels again - just the top.

Cheers,

Luc

stevebrot
5-Jun-2011, 20:43
Hello Steve,

I got it. I moved the maximum position of the back standard as you suggested. I still need to put the front standard in the very last hole closest to the back but it opens some further adjustemnet if needed to reduce the distance between the two standard.
So I have found a position that will allows for the 75 and for the 300 to focus at infinity without unlocking the bottom wheels again - just the top.

Cheers,

Luc

Two thumbs up!!! I am looking forward to seeing the pictures!!


Steve

JC Kuba
6-Jun-2011, 08:13
With this type of camera design, is there any reason you can't move both the front and rear standards towards the front if you need to avoid the bottom of the camera getting into the picture with a wide angle lens?

- JC

lbenac
6-Jun-2011, 10:01
With this type of camera design, is there any reason you can't move both the front and rear standards towards the front if you need to avoid the bottom of the camera getting into the picture with a wide angle lens?

- JC

No as explained by Steve, once you unlock the BOTTOM wheels, you can move the back standard quite a bit forward.

Cheers,

Luc

stevebrot
6-Jun-2011, 20:01
With this type of camera design, is there any reason you can't move both the front and rear standards towards the front if you need to avoid the bottom of the camera getting into the picture with a wide angle lens?

- JC

Not really. The rear standard does not have sufficient forward travel to support minimum bellows draw at other than the rearmost front standard position. That being said, I don't know at which focal lengths the bottom plate will begin to impinge on the FOV. The traditional solution is to tilt the bed downward, tilt the rear standard back and use a combination of front rise and tilt to bring the lens board parallel to the back. Sort of messy, but effective.


Steve

stevebrot
6-Jun-2011, 20:06
...The traditional solution is to tilt the bed downward, tilt the rear standard back and use a combination of front rise and tilt to bring the lens board parallel to the back. Sort of messy, but effective...


...wrong again, Steve! Because the front tilt is axial rather than base, dropping the front negates the minimum draw. There are also clearance issues for some of the hardware pieces.


Anyone using a Chamonix with 60mm or shorter focal lengths who is willing to share their experience?


Steve

JON BUTLER
8-Jun-2011, 13:38
Steve I use a 47mm XL with the Chamonix 45-n2 and the setup is front standard in the second from back hole and the back standard all the way forward with 15mm recessed board but you can use a flat one on the 45-n1.
This works fine for me in landscape but the base I'm sure will intrude in portrait format, this is of no concern to me as I only make prints in landscape and square format.
J.

willwilson
8-Jun-2011, 20:07
One of the reasons I purchased a Chamonix N1 was for the versatility. I regularly use both a 47mm and a Kodak 17Ē (about 430mm) with the extension board.

I was mistaken earlier when I said the 47mm would work on the the 3rd front standard hole. It in fact needs to be on the 4th hole from the front. There is no vignetting in portrait or landscape focused at infinity with the camera bed level.

For the photos I attached: I set up the camera with the 47mm, on flat board, focused at about 20ft, which isnít much different than infinity. I adjusted the rear standards as far forward as possible and then used the front standard to bring the image in to focus in order to show the minimum amount of bellows available. I also took some shots of the maximum rise and fall with a 47mm. The maximum rise and fall definitely exceeds the image circle on the 47mm and in most circumstances can exceed the image circle of a 75mm.

This camera is just really excellent with super wide lenses.

vladduchev
22-Jun-2011, 22:11
thank you guys!!! I just got 65mm lens and had the same problem...could not focused. This is one amazing camera!!!