Hmm'ng and Haww'ng from Labrador

[threemilesfinal]

Hey folks!

The name here is Erik and I've recently moved up to experimenting with Medium Format film after seriously shooting exclusively digital for the last three years. I've found that as I get more and more comfortable with all my photographic fundamentals and the process, the more shooting a 4x5 camera seems appealing to me. Especially after the morning of browsing this forum! Some seriously amazing work on here!

Mainly I shoot Aviation related subjects but do dabble in all sorts of other stuff. Examples can be found on my Blog "Three Miles Final" at http://threemilesfinal.com

So yes! Basically, I'm sounding things out on what a good (and economical! I've unfortunately not won the Lotto 6/49 yet.) beginning 4x5 Camera would be. Since I work for an airline here in Labrador, ideally it wouldn't require a backbrace and be able to be put under the seat of a small Turboprop. Lots of Landscapes out here I am going to be shooting on 6x6 120 film but a few 4x5 sheets of the notable locales would be nice too. Also, some static photography of Aircraft on the tarmac and around the airport / in hangars are something that I would be considering doing.

Looking forward to eventually joining your ranks!

[Robert Ley]

Welcome aboard Erik! I think that you will find our forum a wealth of information for the intrepid LF photographer.

From your description of your travels, I think that a folding field camera would be your best bet. On the least expensive side,a good Graphic(Speed, Anniversary, or Pacemaker) would work. If you could find a Super Graphic that would give you more movements and just as much toughness. The aforementioned will also have a range finder that with the proper lens will give you focus w/o looking at the ground glass and can be used hand held. Many generations of press photographers used them with great success.

Going up in price, you could get a Toya or a Wista. Stick with the metal versions as they are tough as nails and will take a lot of abuse. At the high end would be any of the Linhof Technika's. Very high quality and precision beasts.

I look forward to seeing some of your images from Labrador.

[sully75]

A Crown Graphic sounds good to me too.

The basic thing about the Graphics is that they are awesome cameras, but they lack the movements you'd find in a more expensive field camera, or in even a very cheap monorail. So the only real advantage they'd give you over a medium format camera is a larger negative. And that you can put the cool cover over your head and look through the groundglass, which is pretty fun.

Great bang for the buck. If you need something portable and cheap, you don't have that many choices. A Crown Graphic would be great.

To save you some weeks of confusion (from experience): a Speed Graphic has a focal plane shutter, which you (probably) don't need (makes using funky older lenses without shutters possible). A Crown is like a Speed without the shutter.

They both originally had viewfinders. Some people still use them. Many don't (just use the groundglass like a field camera). The viewfinder can be useful but if you want to use it you need to find one with a useable viewfinder and then possibly have it calibrated. However...you could use the viewfinder to shoot out the window of your plane handheld, which might be cool in its own right...

[sully75]

PS I hitchhiked through N&L 4 or so years ago. So beautiful. Best trip of my life, still miss it.

Picture I took of the Pinware River (http://paulmcevoy.viewbook.com/album/canada?p=1&s=UA-5309626-1#19) (digital but whatever!)

[threemilesfinal]

Thanks for the welcome guys!

It seems that a Graphic is the way to go... I've got my eye on a couple on fleaBay. Is there anything in particular I should look out for?

Can I develop B&W LF sheet film in the same chemistry as my 120? I understand that it would need a different Tank but is the agitation process the same idea?

sully: It's absolutely amazing isn't it? I'm originally from Vancouver Island and N&L totally rivals the beauty of my home Province easily. I love it out here!

Here's a quick digital shot I have from a beach here in town. As soon as I get my couple rolls of 120 back from the processors I'll have (hopefully) some decent ones to put up.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2386/5727768279_66c7299fda_b.jpg
Nothing like a little Ice on the Lake in May. lol

[jeroldharter]

Welcome. But you should ditch the camera and go for the brook trout!

[Fred L]

Definitely some wonderful views in Lab. Guess you fly the coastal run, never had the pleasure of flying into Nain, heard it's fun. Last time was Hopedale to Davis Inlet.

Hope you keep your rod and flies in the craft, just in case of course....

[grahamcase]

Welcome Erik! As an Islander, displaced to the west coast of the country, I can't wait to see the images you're going to be posting! I've only ever been to the south-east tip of Labrador (typical townie!) but expect great things to come.

Cheers!

[msk2193]

Welcome aboard Erik. Beautiful part of the world you're in!

[Vick Vickery]

Welcome to group therapy! :) Hmmm, lets see, inexpensive starting camera...Crown Graphic (Press camera) or Graphic View II (monorail view camera); Calumet 400-series (monorail); Cambo or rebranded to Calumet (newer monorail system camera). The Graphics and the Cambo should have Graflock or Graflock-type back for ease of use with roll film holders, etc., but even the old Calumet 400-series camera can use slide-in roll film backs. The newer Cambo (or rebranded to Calumet) cameras offer interchangeable everything...bellows, backs, rails, etc. Any of these should be available with a little searching for under $200; the press camera will probably come with a lens; the monorails probably won't. Film holders, focusing hood, focusing loupe, a sturdy tripod, and a lens if needed, will add to the cost of getting started.

[jp]

Welcome!

I'd suggest a crown or pacemaker or super speed graphic rather than an older speed graphic. The older ones are fine cameras, but you'll be missing the metal hood. Look for the popup metal hood which negates 90% of the need for a dark cloth.

As far as limited movements of a crown or pacemaker, they only tilt back or rise up on the front. I don't consider this a serious problem that would prevent you from getting lots of nice photos. If you want to shoot something tall, this helps make it truly vertical. It's only a problem when you are using scheimpflug to get a whole near-far scene in focus rather than relying to aperture to control depth of field like you would on a MF or smaller camera. For a crown or pacemaker, you'd have to drop the camera bed or flip the camera over for this rare need.

The suggestion of a monorail camera to fit under the seat of a small turboprop is a little questionable. Those seats are small indeed.

[msk2193]

Erik,

Before you decide you might want to touch and play with different camera types.
I find my self having moved to the wooden field cameras following different inexpensive and expensive metal-based cameras.

Starter field cameras can be had for a few hundred dollars (new) and are readily available on e-bay (http://photography.shop.ebay.com/Cameras-Photo-/625/i.html?_nkw=4x5+camera&_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282) for less!.

[threemilesfinal]

Great advice so far! I've been taking notes and comparing all sorts of things.

Got a couple x Graphics on eBay i'm looking at. They seem to be most in-line with my n00b intentions and somewhat portable enough to put in my kit with my TLR and 450D and not be over 200lb including myself. lol

Field Cameras are really tempting though too because of the full range of movements available. Is there a model of field camera that folds up to a decent size at all? Or generally are they all horribly awkward?

[msk2193]

Erik,

I started with a 4x5 folding Tachihara, moved on to a Linhof Technika, and now ended with an incredible Ebony. They all fold into a nice little package of about 9"x9"5" that slips into my backpack. So, I would not consider that too awkward.

A 500mm on the 4x5 is soo much easier to carry around than a 500 on a dSLR :D

[sully75]

Shen-hao and Chamonix are two somewhat reasonably priced field cameras that would have far superior movements to a Graflex camera. But honestly, I think you'd do really well with a Crown Graphic. They are close to indestructable and reasonably priced. And if you found one with a working rangefinder, you could be shooting 4x5 out the window of your plane.

You just lose movements.

Also, I think, but I don't know, that some of the lenses that you'll get with a Crown are not the greatest, just as far as modern optics go. Pretty good but not amazing. That said you can use any lens with a shutter on a crown, and any lens period with a speed (because of the focal plane shutter).

[kurtdriver]

Erik, I'm brand new to large format too., and after a bit of research and hemming and hawing of my own, settled on a monorail design. I didn't choose a field camera, which I understand refers to cameras whose front standard moves on a bed rather than a single rail. These cameras offer only limited movements on the front standard and none at all on the rear. Perhaps one model or the other differs, but I believe this is the case with most, including the various Graphic models. Their advantages are supposed to be lightweight and the ability to fold to a small size.

My Cambo Super Cambo isn't terrible heavy, but I'm still in my forties, ask me in twenty or more years, perhaps it'll be heavy then. I haven't really figured out what the movements do, but they are all there. The only disadvantage is the length of my rail, which is 21.4 inches. Shorter ones would work too, and I believe that mines is longer than most. I'm going to end up modifying a regular backpack to hold it. You won't find bags or anything else for it at Futureshop.

Another thing I like about mine is that it's completely modular, the rail and front standard are the same ones used in Cambo's 8x10. If I want, I can buy an 8x10 rear standard, bellows and a lens for that format, and I have and 8x10.

Is there a shop near you that rents LF cameras? Perhaps you could spend a day each with a field camera and a monorail and ask lots of questions, heck ask lots of questions without renting, you'll be a good customer.

If you do get a Graphic you might actually look for the focal plane shutter as they (all I think) are capable of 1/1000 of a second.

Here's my latest toy

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5660016044_d2c1073465_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kurtdriver/5660016044/)

[threemilesfinal]

Well I accidently got the wrong kind of Graphic on eBay. lol

Won a Century Graphic in 2 1/2 x 3 1/4 format. Should have read the fine print... but regardless. It's got a 90mm f/4.5 with Raptar Wollensak shutter.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqEOKkME23DObUnQBN4SY35tSw~~_3.JPG

Now I knowwww that this isn't technically LF but I figure that I could sell it after using it for a little while. At least then if I get a Crown Graphic then I'd be familiar with the controls.

Does anyone have experience with this smaller size? Or with Fotokemika-Efke PL50 sheets for it?

[sully75]

cute camera. I think it would give you little advantage over your MF camera though. You might want to clean it up and flip it and look for a 4x5. It's going to be clunky without any kind of additional image quality relative to your MF camera.

[Eric Rose]

Like Vick said, a STURDY TRIPOD. This is the one thing you should not cheap out on.

[Eric Rose]

I bought one of the those 2 1/4 by 3 1/4 cameras for my wife several years ago as an intro to LF. While the film size is not that different from your MF camera, the ability to use lens movements is what sets it apart. The film we used was Efke/Adox PL 100. This combo produced stellar images. My wife eventually moved on to 4x5, but she affectionately called the 2 1/4 the "wifey cam" since it was so much lighter than my Linhof Tek.

[sully75]

A Tiltall is a GREAT choice for a cheap tripod. They are on ebay, usually the shipping costs more than the tripod.

[threemilesfinal]

Eric: lol @ "Wifey Cam". Who knows, maybe my Misses will get interested and I can pass it on to her when I get something bigger.

sully: Will definitely look into that. I have a 500mm prime for my 450D that I use on a monopod right now but a Tripod is definitely next on the list of things to get.

[threemilesfinal]

AGH.

Canada Post has me drove crazy waiting. :(

I could have shot a stack of film by now!

[kurtdriver]

AGH.

Canada Post has me drove crazy waiting. :(

I could have shot a stack of film by now!

A PC synch cord for me. :)
Oh, well.

[Sirius Glass]

My Cambo Super Cambo isn't terrible heavy, but I'm still in my forties, ask me in twenty or more years, perhaps it'll be heavy then.

Rule of Thumb: The camera mass increases as the cube of distance carried.


Camera Mass = (Distance Carried)**3
:eek:

Steve

[kurtdriver]

Shouldn't that equation factor in the condition of the carrier? I can't imagine how to do that, though.

[Sirius Glass]

Shouldn't that equation factor in the condition of the carrier? I can't imagine how to do that, though.

Good point! Also the age factor.


Camera Mass = [Carrier Age/20]*[(Distance Carried)**3]/[Condition of the Carrier]

That is an inverse relationship.
The better the condition of the carrier, the larger the denominator and therefore a diminished increase on the mass.
The worse the condition of the carrier, the smaller the denominator and therefore a greater increase on the mass.