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dreamallen
31-May-2011, 22:44
Hi everyone,

I am looking for suggestion for a wide angle that covers 8X10 format, of course lower price is best for me, coz I am just a student. Thanks a lot!!

Allen

Vaughn
31-May-2011, 22:56
One of these (too late for these specific lenses, but they come up regularily)

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=76509

Usually not quite as clean-looking as those, but they come up.

dreamallen
31-May-2011, 23:27
One of these (too late for these specific lenses, but they come up regularily)

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=76509

Usually not quite as clean-looking as those, but they come up.

Thank you so much for the information, that lens look great!
Hopefully I can find a big aperture lens that easier to focuse.

John Schneider
31-May-2011, 23:35
Hopefully I can find a big aperture lens that easier to focus.

bigger aperture = more weight
bigger aperture = much more $$$ (3-4x)

Kerry L. Thalmann
31-May-2011, 23:55
How wide and how much are you looking to spend? It's tough to beat the f12.5 Wollensak Extreme Wide Angle in terms of price/coverage/performance/size/weight, but there are other options - especially if you're willing to live with less coverage and/or pay more.

Kerry

dreamallen
1-Jun-2011, 00:36
bigger aperture = more weight
bigger aperture = much more $$$ (3-4x)

you are right, so I don't mind to use old lens.

dreamallen
1-Jun-2011, 00:40
How wide and how much are you looking to spend? It's tough to beat the f12.5 Wollensak Extreme Wide Angle in terms of price/coverage/performance/size/weight, but there are other options - especially if you're willing to live with less coverage and/or pay more.

Kerry

Hey Kerry,
I love your tripod head~ Thank you! Do you still shoot 8X10?
I also checked your post about f12.5 Wollensak Extreme Wide Angle! That looks very nice and new! I think I only could pay under $500 for the wide angle. However, I don't really need it now, just looking for sometime maybe I can get a good deal~

Allen

Ari
1-Jun-2011, 00:50
The older 70s-era Super-Angulon 121mm f8 is a great lens.
It shouldn't cover 8x10, but it does.

John Berry
1-Jun-2011, 00:58
8x10 protar.

Asher Kelman
1-Jun-2011, 01:02
I use a Super Symmar XL 150 mm and at infinity there's some corner vignetting, but some movements are still doable.

I've heard praise for the Nikkor 120mm SW and that's on my buying list, but that is really ultrawide for 8x10!

I missed out on Kerry's latest offering of the beautiful Wollensak lenses by a few minutes!

Asher

eddie
1-Jun-2011, 04:06
Hi everyone,

I am looking for suggestion for a wide angle that covers 8X10 format, of course lower price is best for me, coz I am just a student. Thanks a lot!!

Allen


I use a Super Symmar XL 150 mm and at infinity there's some corner vignetting, but some movements are still doable.

I've heard praise for the Nikkor 120mm SW and that's on my buying list, but that is really ultrawide
Asher

Probably some of the MOST expensive lenses for the job......

Asher Kelman
1-Jun-2011, 07:06
Probably some of the MOST expensive lenses for the job......

Granted, Eddie, the Schneider is too expensive but the Nikkor 120 mm SW is about $500 or even less used, ( BTW, the same price range as the Lovely 6 1/4" F12.5 Wollensak Extreme Wide Angles Kerry just sold). Less expensive is the Fuji 125, reported here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=63370) for $225! That seems to be a great price!

Asher

originalphoto
1-Jun-2011, 07:58
just saw a good old version of 165mm SA with box was sold just over 600 dollars on Ebay.

ic-racer
1-Jun-2011, 08:01
I'd recommend just about any 240mm in a #3 shutter. You can get these in the $300-400 range if you are patient.

I'd stay away from the super-wide stuff previously mentioned if you are new to the format. You will have difficulty seeing the image and difficulty learning the movements because you can't see what is going on.

Ole Tjugen
1-Jun-2011, 09:17
Super Angulon 121mm f:8 as already mentioned, Angulon 210mm f:6.8, Angulon 165mm f:6.8 (barely), Symmar 240mm f:5.6

I have and use all these, and it's hard to beat the price/performance ratio for these unless you go for an old shutterless lens - or a very old shutter. These come in Compur or Compound shutters, old familiar reliable repairable workhorses.

Kerry L. Thalmann
1-Jun-2011, 09:43
Granted, Eddie, the Schneider is too expensive but the Nikkor 120 mm SW is about $500 or even less used, ( BTW, the same price range as the Lovely 6 1/4" F12.5 Wollensak Extreme Wide Angles Kerry just sold). Less expensive is the Fuji 125, reported here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=63370) for $225! That seems to be a great price!

Asher

The one that I sold for $350 would have been a good option or the OP. If he's patient, he may be able to find a similar deal elsewhere.

Does the 125mm f8 Fujinon SW cover 8x10? The manufacturer lists the image circle as 280mm. That's well short of hitting the corners of 8x10.

I know the 121mm f8 Super and 120mm f8 Nikkor SW hit this corners of 8x10, but leave very little room for movements. These are also extremely wide lenses for 8x10 and would be difficult to use. Not all 8x10 cameras can handle lenses this wide, and most require a bag bellows and/or a recessed board. They are dim on the grould glass, with significant fall off in the corners. Neither would be my recommendation as a first wide angle for a beginner.

Kerry

Mark Sawyer
1-Jun-2011, 09:44
The old brass Wide Angle Rectilinears often go cheap, and are remarkable little lenses if you can get by without a shutter. Usually 8x10 coverage is 120mm to 150mm. The Cooke VIIb is a lovely 158mm, but also only came in a barrel. A 215mm f/4.8 Acuton is a nicemodern Plasmat in a shutter that covers 8x10 and converts to a 360mm, and often sells for $100 to $200, but isn't quite as wide.

Mark Sawyer
1-Jun-2011, 09:49
I know the 121mm f8 Super and 120mm f8 Nikkor SW hit this corners of 8x10, but leave very little room for movements. These are also extremely wide lenses for 8x10 and would be difficult to use. Not all 8x10 cameras can handle lenses this wide, and most require a bag bellows and/or a recessed board. They are dim on the grould glass, with significant fall off in the corners. Neither would be my recommendation as a first wide angle for a beginner.

Kerry

I agree with Kerry on the 121 Super Angulon. I used one on 8x10, and it "illuminates" but it's a bit of a reach to say it covers. The fall-off is significant, and the last half-inch of the corners gets that "stretchy" distortion. It might be a reasonable option if you only print a whole-plate sized (6.5x8.5) section of the negative.

Diane Maher
1-Jun-2011, 10:01
There is also an f9.5 variation of the 6 1/4" Wollensak that Kerry sold. It does get soft in the corners, if I recall correctly, but it is one of the first lenses I bought when I first started in 8x10.

Diane

Ole Tjugen
1-Jun-2011, 10:11
Here's one where I failed to center the lens properly. Dark sky corners are obvious, but there doesn't seem to be much "stretchy distortion" beyond what is to be expected considering the angle of view.

Super Angulon 121mm f:8 :

http://www.bruraholo.no/images/Senja_2007/Senja04.jpg

Kerry L. Thalmann
1-Jun-2011, 10:12
Super Angulon 121mm f:8 as already mentioned, Angulon 210mm f:6.8, Angulon 165mm f:6.8 (barely), Symmar 240mm f:5.6

I have and use all these, and it's hard to beat the price/performance ratio for these unless you go for an old shutterless lens - or a very old shutter. These come in Compur or Compound shutters, old familiar reliable repairable workhorses.

The 210mm f6.8 Angulon covers 8x10 with room to spare. Unfortunately, you're not likely to find one for less than $500 these days.

A 165mm f6.8 Angulon can be had for that, or less, depending on age, shutter and condition. While it's much faster than the f12.5 Wollensak Extreme Wide Angle, it also has less coverage. Early Schneider literature listed coverage of up to 107 degrees stopped down which is ridiculous. The late Schneider literature lists the coverage as 84 degrees at f16. From experience, usable coverage at f32 is about 90 degrees, give or take, which is enough to cover 8x10 with small movements.

The 240mm f5.6 Symmar (also commonly referred to as the Convertible Symmar) is another good example of a good, affordable lens that covers 8x10, but without much left for movements. Still, they can be had for a song. The same lens was rebranded and sold as the Caltar-II S by Calumet and the Orbit by Burke & James. Tony Karnezis just sold a 240mm f5.6 in a Copal No. 3 shutter in the classifieds for $200, a true bargain. For a bit more money, you can get a 240mm f5.6 Symmar-S MC, which adds multicoating.

The 240mm f5.6 Nikkor W is another multicoated plasmat with similar coverage that can easily be found for less than $500. Ditto for the Rodenstock Sironar-N.

A nice single coated lens that covers 8x10 with movements is the 250mm f6.7 Fujinon W. It has an image circle of 398mm and comes in a Copal No. 1 shutter. I've recently seen some sell for less than $500 on eBay. Just don't confuse this lens with the newer f6.3 version that has considerably less coverage.

I actually think something in the 210mm - 250mm would make a good first wide angle. These lenses are generally much easier to use than an ultrawide lens.

The 250mm f6.3 WF Ektar is a great lens for 8x10, but probably can't be found for less than $500. It's also in a very big, heavy Ilex #5 shutter. That makes the 250mm f6.7 Fujinon SW an attractive alternative.

In 210mm, the f9 G Claron covers 8x10 at small stops, the f9 Computar covers with TONS of room to spare, but probably can't be had for $500. The similar looking f9 Graphic Kowa is a different design (6/6 vs. 6/4 for the Computar) that covers less, but still enough for 8x10 with moderate movements. This model can occasionally be found, in shutter for $500, or less.

The 240mm G Claron is another good option. The 240mm f9 Germinar W is even better, but good luck finding one of those for less than $500 these days.

The 240mm f9 Fujinon A will hit the corners of 8x10, but I don't really recommend it for this format (for 4x5, 5x7, WP, and 4x10 yes, 8x10 no). Unlike the G Claron and Germinar W, the coverage of the Fujinon doesn't really increase much beyond 70 degrees when stopping down. The corners go real soft real fast beyond the rated coverage.

In slightly wider lenses, the 190mm WF Ektar should hit the corners of 8x10, but won't leave much, if any, room for movements. The 183mm (or 18cm) f18 Series V Protar covers with tons to spare, but is very slow and hard to find in a working shutter for less than $500.

Once you get beyond $500, there are other options, but that's beyond the OPs budget.

Kerry

Kerry L. Thalmann
1-Jun-2011, 10:21
There is also an f9.5 variation of the 6 1/4" Wollensak that Kerry sold. It does get soft in the corners, if I recall correctly, but it is one of the first lenses I bought when I first started in 8x10.

Diane

The f9.5 version was a more complex design that supposedly offered better performance, but less coverage (90 degrees) than the f12.5 (100 degrees).

Kerry

Tony Lakin
1-Jun-2011, 10:56
Don't forget the 6.5 inch f8 Gold Dot Dagor I know that they are usually very expensive but you may get lucky as I did ($350) covers 8x10 with a little movement at f22, a very compact and sharp lens.

Good luck

Drew Wiley
1-Jun-2011, 11:14
The 240 Fuji A easily covers 8x10 with room to spare and is virtually indistinguishable
from the 250 G-Claron in this respect. I frequently use it on 8x10, even for big enlargements. No problem. I can't explain Kerry's remark. I use these lenses all the time on 8x10. Other than the slight difference in contrast and wt I (different size shutters), I can hardly tell the G and the A apart. And just a tad less coverage than the Fuji 250/6.7.

mcfactor
1-Jun-2011, 11:52
The Caltar-N MC 210 f/5.6 covers 8x10 well, I use it as my wide angle on my deardorff. It was about $200 on ebay.

erie patsellis
1-Jun-2011, 12:06
The lenses I use or have used as wides on 8x10 include:

120mm f8 Fujinon-SW, great lens, sometimes found inexpensively (mine was under $200 within the last few years)
165 6.8 Angulon, I'll echo Ole's (and Kerry's) comments, good, not great and edge sharpness can be an issue.
210 6.8 Angulon, stunning lens with more coverage than any human being likely needs on 8x10, mine is coated and in a Compound shutter. The combination will likely outlast me by a century or more.
210 5.6 Componon in Synchro Compur, It works, it cover with a little wiggle room. Mine was severly damaged (huge chunk out of the front) and still produced a lovely image.
210 5.6 Symmar-S, good inexpensive choice if contact printing, edge sharpness needs at least f16 to not be noticably soft, smallish image circle, you have a bit of movements, but not tons.
240 5.6 Symmar-S MC, as noted above, great moderate wide that has far more coverage than you're every likely to use.
250 6.7 Fujinon, Sold a few years ago and I regret selling it. While not overly remarkable from an optical standpoint, the fact that it just does it's job and doesn't call attention to itself is remarkable.

In barrel lenses, I use:

150mm f9 Hexanon GRII, some cover, some don't. I think a lot depends on cell spacing.
260mm f9 Hexanon GRII, Tons of coverage
These can be had very inexpensively, mine were free off of a vertical copy camera.

Ole Tjugen
1-Jun-2011, 13:01
The odd thing about the old plain Angulons is that the literature might actually be correct!

The formula was tweaked several times over the years, and the later ones DO show better sharpness over the intended field - but the old pre-WWII ones had a more gradual deterioration. So while a late 120mm Angulon covers 5x7" at f:32 with a little fuzz far out in the corners, a pre-WWII one will cover 8x10" with a LOT of fuzz, and is probably worse over most of the area on 5x7". But remember that when the old literature was written, contact printing was the norm.

So for contact printing, I wouldn't hesitate to use an OLD 90mm Angulon for 5x7", or a 120mm for 8x10". I used my old 210mm Angulon on 30x40cm (12x16"), and while the corners were well fuzzy it was quite usable.

So the construction changed, and the definition of "coverage" changed.

See HERE (http://www.bruraholo.no/Cameras/Angulon/index.html) for my quick&dirty comparison of a 1939 and a 1956 90mm Angulon, shot on 5x7" film. Ignore the effect of neglecting to shield the front of the lens from direct sun...

brianam
1-Jun-2011, 14:26
I'm a new 8x10 user/experimenter, and I purchased a Fujinon 250/6.7 through this forum to get me started.
Initial impressions were that 250mm is much wider on 8x10 than I would've thought. I could see using a 210mm maybe, but shorter than that would qualify as super-wide to me.

A 115mm Grandagon supposedly can be used on 8x10 with a center filter. I picked up one of those to use on 5x7, but I do so rarely b/c *to me* it's too wide. I can only imagine the FOV on 8x10...
$0.02,

John Kasaian
1-Jun-2011, 20:18
Don't forget the 10" WF Ektar! On an 8x10 it is truly a classic, and coverage seems like it could be measured in acreage ;)

johnielvis
1-Jun-2011, 20:28
yeah---190 wide field ektar is da bomb--I use that---it is W I D E

I have also heard that the 180 fuji sw will cover too--so I bought one to make a hobo type camera---still didn't get to that project, so no first hand experience with that--I have seen some 8x10s which were supposedly shot with this lens, and there is a teeny bit of dark corners--but then I don't know if it was shot stopped down or all the way open...the pics all looked like around infinity focus...will certainly cover at closer distances I'm thinking...

deatojef
2-Jun-2011, 10:24
I've had good success with the Nikon 150mm SW f/8 on 8x10. Decent coverage and it's not disappointed me for either color or B&W work. Might be a little on the spendy side if you're looking for a budget lens.

One thing to keep in mind (and I don't know if this affects other lenses in this focal range as I've only got the Nikon in this focal range), but placing the standard Lee filter holder on the front will almost guarantee vegnetting. You have to get the "slip" on filter holder or just hold the filter up against the lens with your hand. Not sure if that's a factor in your decision or not.

-Jeff

John Kasaian
2-Jun-2011, 11:34
How wide are you looking for? A 10"/250mm WF Ektar isn't nearly a wide as a 120 SW Nikkor. I find a 240mm G Claron to be one of my most used lenses, while a 159mm Wollensak is one of my least used.

engl
2-Jun-2011, 12:10
yeah---190 wide field ektar is da bomb--I use that---it is W I D E

I have also heard that the 180 fuji sw will cover too--so I bought one to make a hobo type camera---still didn't get to that project, so no first hand experience with that--I have seen some 8x10s which were supposedly shot with this lens, and there is a teeny bit of dark corners--but then I don't know if it was shot stopped down or all the way open...the pics all looked like around infinity focus...will certainly cover at closer distances I'm thinking...

I think you are referring to the single coated version of the Fujinon W 180/5.6 (marked inside filter ring). It should just cover 8x10 with no movements. The single coated W 210/5.6 gives a bit of room to spare on 8x10.

The older Fujinon single coated W F5.6 lenses have 80 degrees of coverage, while the newer multicoated ones (NW, CM-W) have slightly lower.

Randy
2-Jun-2011, 12:14
One the cheep - Agfa Repromaster 213 mm f8.25. I got mine for $99. It covers 8X10 with lots of room for movements. No shutter though.

Brian Ellis
2-Jun-2011, 13:24
Thank you so much for the information, that lens look great!
Hopefully I can find a big aperture lens that easier to focuse.

There was also an f/9.5 version of the Wollensak Extreme Wide Angle lens that might suit you better because of the wider aperture. I had two of them that I used with an 8x10 camera, both performed very well for contact printing, I don't recall whether I ever enlarged any of the negatives made with these lenses or not. I think I paid about $350 for each one. The f/9.5 version isn't significantly larger or heavier than the f12.5 version, it's a very small, light lens.

Another moderately priced wide angle lens for 8x10 that you might consider is the 210mm f/9 G Claron. I used a couple of those too and they did a very good job. The specs would make you think they don't cover 8x10 but they do once you stop down to about f/16 which you'd normally do anyhow. As you continue stopping down the coverage continues to increase. I don't remember ever running out of coverage.

johnielvis
2-Jun-2011, 15:10
I think you are referring to the single coated version of the Fujinon W 180/5.6 (marked inside filter ring). It should just cover 8x10 with no movements. The single coated W 210/5.6 gives a bit of room to spare on 8x10.

The older Fujinon single coated W F5.6 lenses have 80 degrees of coverage, while the newer multicoated ones (NW, CM-W) have slightly lower.

CORRECT a mundo

that is the lens i have fujinon-w 1:5.6/180 on the INSIDE lettering--you knows yer stuff

this lens I had on my 4x5 and man can you move with it on that.

Ari
2-Jun-2011, 15:28
I remembered a couple more:
Fujinon-W 180
Fujinon-W 210

The 180 just barely covers 8x10, while the 210 gives you room to spare.
Both are f5.6 and the 210 is an especially sharp lens.
Look for lettering inside the barrel.

Richard Rau
4-Jun-2011, 00:30
The one that I sold for $350 would have been a good option or the OP. If he's patient, he may be able to find a similar deal elsewhere.

Does the 125mm f8 Fujinon SW cover 8x10? The manufacturer lists the image circle as 280mm. That's well short of hitting the corners of 8x10.

I know the 121mm f8 Super and 120mm f8 Nikkor SW hit this corners of 8x10, but leave very little room for movements. These are also extremely wide lenses for 8x10 and would be difficult to use. Not all 8x10 cameras can handle lenses this wide, and most require a bag bellows and/or a recessed board. They are dim on the grould glass, with significant fall off in the corners. Neither would be my recommendation as a first wide angle for a beginner.

Kerry


Regarding the Nikkor 120mm SW, would you find it necessary to use a Center filter to prevent falloff?