Linhof tested and selected Schneider and Rodenstock

[Rene Z. Quan]

Hello

Is anyone aware of Linhof tested lenses? Apparently, Linhof buys batches of len ses from Schneider and Rondenstock and tests them. Those lenses that meets Linh of's own set of criteria are inscribed LINHOF on the barrel. I have seen three such samples myself but I am wary of the hypothesis that these are premium sampl es of any one production run of lenses from Schneider or Rodenstock. Can any re aders please advise. Thanks.

[Richard Fish]

You CAN BANK on anything that Linhof tells us, or on what is said by the spokesperson for their U.S. rep - Bob Salomon. You'll find Bob following the LF newsgroup daily. For 40 years I have been hering that Linhof HAS been turning away Schenider lenses that don't meet their standards, and that those they do accept are exceptional. I don't know anything about their looking at Rodenstocks.

[Ellis Vener]

Dick is correct. Bob can be, shall I say, aggressive in his promotion of the products (primarily Linhof, Heliopan, & Rodenstock he represents. But he has never to my knowlege ever been wrong or misrepresented those products that he represents. Other products, well I think I should just say he knows his product lines better than anyone else does. Having said that, that doesn't necessarily mean that Linhof gets the cream of all of Schneider (and possibly Rodenstock's) production. Sinar does the same sort of sorting. I speculate that the lens' tolerences are so fine that that the above average picky professional would be hard pressed to fine a difference between similar lenses one marked Linhof & the other marked Schneider What may be more important is that both Sinar and Linhof (conceivably Arca as well)mount their lenses on their lensboards and are able to test the entire assembly to make sure you are getting as near perfect of set up as is possible.

[Bob Salomon]

Linhof (and Sinar) both purchased Rodenstock's Sieman Star projector (500,000 Dm+) to duplicate the final QC test as performed by Rodenstock (the only LF lens company with ISO 9001 status).

This system allows them to remotely rotate the lens while projecting Siemans stars and instanly show defects in the lens. The stars are projected on a wall that is many 10s of feet wide so the patterns are obvious.

As this duplicates Rodenstock's own testing the failure rate on the Rodenstock lenses is less than the other lenses from Schneider and Nikon.

They also test the lenses that pass this test for objects (dust, dirt, paint flakes from the shutter blades) in a lit black box and, of course, shutter accuracy.

Most lenses that fail from all suppliers are failed from the 2nd group of tests.

Lenses that pass these tests are then marked with the Linhof name (if there is space on the front or rear rim). Lenses that fail are returned to the manufacturers.

During the testing certain lenses are selected for their paryicular suitability for special applications. For instance for particular high quality specifically for 6x17cm cameras or 6x12 cameras. These lenses perform exceptionally over the required image area but may, in fact, be lenses that might have fialed if the performamnce outside that area is considered.

they also select lenses that are especially well suited for use in Aerial Technika and Aerotronica aerial cameras or the Metrika photogrammetric camera which needs exceptionally low distortion lenses.

[Rene Z. Quan]

Thank you all for weighing in, especially Mr Bob Salomon of HP Marketing. I actually got the LINHOF list from a friend in Frankfurt. Not only are LF lenses so selected, Lihnof also tests and selects enlarging lenses from Schneider and Rodenstocks.

Mr Salomon didn't answer this though: are these Linhof selected lenses available in the USA through HP Marketing? Please advise.

[Rene Z. Quan]

Addendum

I am curious: what happens to those lenses that fail the Linhof tests and are returned to the manufacturers? Are they repackaged and sold as your regular off-the-shelves Schneider and Rodenstocks? If that is so, don't we run the risk of getting 'second-rate' lenses? Sorry, I don't mean to generate paranoia :)

[Bob Salomon]

Yes we sell Linhof tested lenses in the U.S.

Bear in mind though that they are SUBSTANTIALLY more expensive. These tests are not done at no charge by Linhof. Generally you can expect to pay at least 2x as much as the same lens without the test. The only exception would be the 150mm Apo Sironar N that we sell in a special package with the Master Technika.

Also you must realize what exactly the test means.

It means that Rodenstock lenses go through the same final QC test twice. Once at rdenstock and once at Linhof and other lenses go through it once.

Yes they also test enlarger lenses.

Any lens that Linhof tests has met all the final QC tests at their respective factories. Therefor they are not seconds if they are rejected by linhof. They simply go back to the factory and are sold by the factory. Since they met the factory's QC tests prior to Linhof testing them they are first quality lenses from that factory. They just don't meet Linhof's requirements but would be more than adequate for most users.

[Dave_958]

Some key information has to be revealed for a buyer to determine whether it is worth the extra money to buy a Linhof lens. (1) What percent of lenses that are inspected by Linhof pass its tests? If 99% pass the test, I would conclude my chances of getting as good a lens are very high, even if not Linhof tested. (2) At what size enlargement does the Linhof lens show significant enhanced image (resolution, contrast, saturation, color fidelity) compared to a non-Linhof lens? If the differences are not apparent until the image is enlarged to 5 x 7 feet, I would see any need to buy the Linhof lens. (3) Is the technical data (MTF, etc.) the same for the Linhof and non-Linhof lenses? If so, there is less reason to buy the Linhof lens. (4) Since the Linhof-rejected lens passed the original lens manufacturer's quality control tests, this suggests that Linhof accepts lesser variation from optimum quality than the original manufacturer. How much is the variation at which the original manufacturer will allow the lens to pass its tests? If the accepted deviation is small enough, there is less reason to value Linhof's pass-fail criteria. (5) How much does the Linhof name help with respect to the resale of the lens? I wonder whether the price for a used Linhof lens would merge with that of a used Caltar. xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx

[Embdude]

Linhof (and Sinar) both purchased Rodenstock's Sieman Star projector (500,000 Dm+) to duplicate the final QC test as performed by Rodenstock... As this duplicates Rodenstock's own testing the failure rate on the Rodenstock lenses is less than the other lenses from Schneider and Nikon.

Where ther Nikon "Linhof Select" lenses with the engraved Linhof script logo?

[Mark Sampson]

Reviving a thread, 22 years dead!
I've never seen a Linhof-branded LF Nikkor lens- even behind the counter at the big NYC camera stores, back in the '80s when you actually had a selection of lenses.

[Tin Can]

Post WWII Japan had no machines

'MacArthur Plan' gave them leftover tooling to boot them up

As Japan recovered they made better

Remember Japan transistor radios?

I do

My Pentax H1 never needed repair, even after a 20ft fall off a bridge, we got it new and used it 40 years until I gave to an idiot nephew. He lost it

[Drew Wiley]

An H1 was my first camera, and it went through incredible torture in the mountains. Even got dunked under a frozen stream, along with myself (I lost the coin toss, who had to bring the safety rope across). Finally, the cat lost all of its nine lives - the shutter speed gear stripped at 1/30th, my favorite speed.

[Embdude]

From what I can tell the practice of engraving the "Linhof Select" lenses with the Linhof script logo begins in 1950 or 51 and continues until about 2000.

I have not seen a lens with the engraved script with a SN later than 1999.

Some of the late 1990's "Linhof Select" lenses were not engraved but screen or laser printed with the logo.

Also some later lenses like the 300mm 5.6 Schneider Xenar had the serial mumber and Linhof script on the back cell for whatever reason.

[Oren Grad]

Have you ever seen Nikkor lenses offered on a Linhof price list? The lists I have show only Schneider and Rodenstock, but I don't have any from the 1980's-90's when Nikkor LF lenses were in their heyday.

[Bob Salomon]

Have you ever seen Nikkor lenses offered on a Linhof price list? The lists I have show only Schneider and Rodenstock, but I don't have any from the 1980's-90's when Nikkor LF lenses were in their heyday.

Only the long teles were offered by LInhof.

[David Lindquist]

See post #5 here: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?84498-Linhof-0-Copal-lensboard

And post #24 here: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?111194-Longest-focal-length-w-Linhof-Tech-V-without-need-for-special-bellows&p=1111304#post1111304

One thought that occurs to me is that Linhof would have sold rather fewer Nikkor-T lenses than, say, the various plasmats by Schneider or Rodenstock so there won't be a lot of examples out there.

David

[Per Madsen]

I have a Schneider 120 mm 5,6 Apo-Symmar i bought new in 2008, which are marked Linhof.

I will check the serial number and return.

Linhof engraved, but tiny. Serial number 14.935.908 (after January 2005).

[BrianShaw]

Some key information has to be revealed for a buyer to determine whether it is worth the extra money to buy a Linhof lens. (1) What percent of lenses that are inspected by Linhof pass its tests? If 99% pass the test, I would conclude my chances of getting as good a lens are very high, even if not Linhof tested. (2) At what size enlargement does the Linhof lens show significant enhanced image (resolution, contrast, saturation, color fidelity) compared to a non-Linhof lens? If the differences are not apparent until the image is enlarged to 5 x 7 feet, I would see any need to buy the Linhof lens. (3) Is the technical data (MTF, etc.) the same for the Linhof and non-Linhof lenses? If so, there is less reason to buy the Linhof lens. (4) Since the Linhof-rejected lens passed the original lens manufacturer's quality control tests, this suggests that Linhof accepts lesser variation from optimum quality than the original manufacturer. How much is the variation at which the original manufacturer will allow the lens to pass its tests? If the accepted deviation is small enough, there is less reason to value Linhof's pass-fail criteria. (5) How much does the Linhof name help with respect to the resale of the lens? I wonder whether the price for a used Linhof lens would merge with that of a used Caltar. xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx

Well, gosh and golly. Since this thread has been revived perhaps these critical observations can be addressed and very important questions can be answered. I’ve been waiting more than 20 years… two decades… a score and more.

[David Lindquist]

Well, gosh and golly. Since this thread has been revived perhaps these critical observations can be addressed and very important questions can be answered. I’ve been waiting more than 20 years… two decades… a score and more.

So does anyone have a price list from the USA distributor of Linhof from, for example, 2002 and a price list from the USA distributor of Schneider from the same year so we can see how much the price premium from Linhof actually was.

David

[Embdude]

https://static.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Product_Resources/SourceBookProPhoto/Section04LgFormatLenses.pdf

B&H LF lens sourcebook - undated but looks to be this century... has prices but no mention of Linhof...

UPDATE: looks like from 1998... here is the rest of the book...

https://static.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Product_Resources/SourceBookProPhoto/Pro-Photo-SourceBook.pdf