the best scanning service in the country

[chris jordan]

hey guys. i shoot large format (4x5) transparencies and am wanting to find the best scanning service available for large (400MB) scans for lightjet and other p rints. do any experienced digital printers out there have recommendations? cos t is no object, as long as the scans are individually calibrated and ultra-high quality. thoughts?

~chris jordan, seattle

[Ellis Vener]

Nancyscans. Excellent reputation.

[Jim Galli]

Just once I want to poll here and say "cost is no object"!

[Michael Chmilar]

West Coast Imaging (www.westcoastimaging) seems to have a good reputation in this forum. They use the Heidelberg Tango drum scanner.

I have had two 4x5 transparencies scanned at 300MB, and the results are magnificent. Every piece of information has been pulled from the trannies. I will continue to send scans to them.

[Mike Kravit]

I would honestly have to say that West Coast Imaging has a superb reputation for scanning. Perhaps the premier group in the country (USA).

Mike

[Richard Kenward]

Guys

As a provider of quality drum scans, this is why large scans are more expensive than small ones from the same sized film.

The scanner is tied up longer, sometimes a lot, lot longer. So fewer scans can be made in a given time.

The whole workflow is longer and when adjustment layers are used the files can easily get to around 4Gs when working in 16bit.

The time spent pixel cloning is greatly increased as the smallest speck of dust or defrect in the film shows up. Consider say a 4000ppi file from a 4x5 giving a file of around 900MB in 8bit. This will take about 195 screens to check and spot, against with say a 100MB file producing 12 screens of picture information.

Computers that can handle such files sensibly do not come cheap so another reason for charging more for producing large files.

I hope this is of interest.

Cheers

Richard

[Dave Parker]

This is such a subjective question, what is the best to one, might be the worst to another, good luck in your quest.

Dave

[Lazybones]

This is such a subjective question, what is the best to one, might be the worst to another


Wrong.

Poorly done scans are a nightmare. No subjectivity required. Bad is bad. I do agree, however, that among the recognized high-end, it may be a matter of opinion.

[phil sweeney]

I have used nancy scans and have always been satisfied. Sure wish they did not have an extra for 8 x 10.

[Dave Parker]

Wrong.

Poorly done scans are a nightmare. No subjectivity required. Bad is bad. I do agree, however, that among the recognized high-end, it may be a matter of opinion.

I am not wrong, what some consider good is considered bad by others, good scanning services are a very subjective opinionated business, that is why I won't make a recommendation...I found so much variance in scanning services, that I set up my own drum, so I could consistently get the quality that I was happy with, asking which scanning service is best, is the same as trying to ascertain, what camera is the best, it is a purely subjective opinion of those who pay for the service...so how many more times are you going to stay pissed off at me, because I told you that you were wrong the other day about the dark slides?

:rolleyes:

Dave

[David Luttmann]

In what way would the best of scans for one, be the worst for others? I'm interested in your view on this being that you've put it forward so harshly.

[Dave Parker]

In what way would the best of scans for one, be the worst for others? I'm interested in your view on this being that you've put it forward so harshly.

How would what I put forth be considered harsh David????????

What I like in a scan can be entirely different than what you like, its not harsh, it is truth, I work in the digital scanning industry with the magazine company I used to own as well as one of the current photography magazines out there, its not harsh it is subjective on what is pleasing to one persons eye as opposed to what is pleasing to another's, color and tone is something that each person decides on..thats why I set up my own system, calibrated to what is pleasing to me, and I admit it may not be pleasing to you.

Dave

[Bruce Watson]

Hey guys. I shoot large format (4x5) transparencies and am wanting to find the best scanning service available for large (400MB) scans for lightjet and other prints. Do any experienced digital printers out there have recommendations?

I do. Buy a used drum scanner (the marketplace is littered with used ones -- there's no point in buying a new one) and do it yourself. It's no more difficult to do that using a view camera.

Drum scanning service bureaus are generalists. They have to be to survive. You can be a specialist who only does your own work. You'll soon exceed what any generalist can do for your film.

As you get better at it you'll also hone in on specifically what you want. And you'll have the control to get it. It depends on how high a quality scan you really want. And no one is going to care as much about your scans as you will.

[Lazybones]

Once upon a time, in a magical city, far away, there was a Beautiful Custom Laboratory. This Lab had customer service fit for a king, maintained high quality E-6 and C-41 stables, and even offered quality scanning services. Over the years, the satyr Lazybones ordered many a magical drum scan from the Beautiful Custom Lab and was always very pleased. Much film was processed there for many of the photoging creatures of the land. All in the magical city knew that the Beautiful Custom Lab was synonymous with quality.

Then, one day, the Beautiful Lab started making worthless scans. Being acquainted with a noble serf of the formerly Beautiful Lab, Lazybones was informed that they had sold their magical tango-dancing, heidelberg-blimp-esque, high-end drum scanner, and were now using inferior equipment while charging the same prices. Many of the photoging creatures in the land began to notice the disenchantment. Soon, the quality of the mystical lines also began to suffer a bit. Film came back with evil filth that was evocative of the perils of Mordor(tm). Tragically, a few lunar cycles of the triple moons later, the Beautiful Laboratory itself was handed over to the legions of the Evil Faceless Multitude, for the Duke of Filme could no longer afford to pay tribute to the Lords of Lande.

[Gordon Moat]

Many reviewers of scans consider the drum scanners by ICG as the most capable. It needs to be pointed out that a poorly run high end drum scanner would negate the advantages of well made hardware. With that in mind, has anyone tried out these places:

http://www.fineprintimaging.com/scanning.htm

http://www.theslideprinter.com/scanning-services.htm

Prior to the Creo buyout by Kodak, there was a possibility of having a test scan done on a Creo high end flatbed scanner. Considering the potential cost of many large file drum scans, it might almost be a better long term solution to buy your own high end flatbed. This way you could control the quality level to your satisfaction. However, there is a learning curve involved, and a consideration of the value of your time.

FLAAR has done many revues of scanners, and runs some of the latest gear. Students at BGSU tend to be the operators, though in theory they can probably be highly capable. While I have no idea how good these people are with this high end gear, it is possible to test their scanning services:

http://www.largeformatlab.org

The lab at BGSU is probably state of the art, at least in Creo gear. It might make an interesting comparison to see how well they can do with scans. Their pricing certainly is reasonable.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[David Luttmann]

How would what I put forth be considered harsh David????????

What I like in a scan can be entirely different than what you like, its not harsh, it is truth, I work in the digital scanning industry with the magazine company I used to own as well as one of the current photography magazines out there, its not harsh it is subjective on what is pleasing to one persons eye as opposed to what is pleasing to another's, color and tone is something that each person decides on..thats why I set up my own system, calibrated to what is pleasing to me, and I admit it may not be pleasing to you.

Dave

This may be the case Dave, but if you're scanning a chrome, if you're pulling all the detail off, and the colors match exactly what is seen on the light table, then how would one person see it as a bad scan and another as great.....this doesn't make sense.

[Sal Santamaura]

It would be interesting for Chris Jordan to chime in here and let us know what he's doing for scans five and a half years after asking the question in this now-resurrected thread.

[Lazybones]

It would be interesting for Chris Jordan to chime in here and let us know what he's doing for scans five and a half years after asking the question in this now-resurrected thread.

Oh.

[Dave Parker]

This may be the case Dave, but if you're scanning a chrome, if you're pulling all the detail off, and the colors match exactly what is seen on the light table, then how would one person see it as a bad scan and another as great.....this doesn't make sense.

Thats not what the question was David, different scanners display things differently and not all scanning services pull all the information available from the film scanned...hence differences in both opinion as well as quality. And I am still interested in what was so harsh about my statement?

[David Luttmann]

"I am not wrong, what some consider good is considered bad by others, good scanning services are a very subjective opinionated business, that is why I won't make a recommendation...I found so much variance in scanning services, that I set up my own drum, so I could consistently get the quality that I was happy with, asking which scanning service is best, is the same as trying to ascertain, what camera is the best, it is a purely subjective opinion of those who pay for the service...so how many more times are you going to stay pissed off at me, because I told you that you were wrong the other day about the dark slides?"

Oh, I don't know. Saying you're not wrong....when in fact, if the drum scan does pull all the detail off....which a good scan will do.....then I'd say you are.

As well....getting into the "pissed off" comments seems a bit harsh. If you don't agree, then so be it. But standing from where I am, it seems that you are a little bit overboard here.

[Dave Parker]

"I am not wrong, what some consider good is considered bad by others, good scanning services are a very subjective opinionated business, that is why I won't make a recommendation...I found so much variance in scanning services, that I set up my own drum, so I could consistently get the quality that I was happy with, asking which scanning service is best, is the same as trying to ascertain, what camera is the best, it is a purely subjective opinion of those who pay for the service...so how many more times are you going to stay pissed off at me, because I told you that you were wrong the other day about the dark slides?"

Oh, I don't know. Saying you're not wrong....when in fact, if the drum scan does pull all the detail off....which a good scan will do.....then I'd say you are.

As well....getting into the "pissed off" comments seems a bit harsh. If you don't agree, then so be it. But standing from where I am, it seems that you are a little bit overboard here.

Well David,

That is fine, actually Lazybones and I were laughing at each other in PM's and I still say I am not wrong, different scanners have different software that renders things differently, I can scan with my Tango and it will look completely different than our local service providers scan, due to software, hardware and setup as well as operators..

What is it with you guys that want to argue? geeze, If you thought it was overboard, then so be it, you said it yourself "IF" the drum scan pulls all of the information off, and depending on the service that can be a big IF..

Sorry if my words don't fit your idea of what should be posted..as you said, so be it! As Sal pointed out, and I admit, I didn't notice it, this is a 5 year old thread that was resurrected and by looking as Chris's photos, I am sure he has found the solution that works for him, so it has become a moot point.

Dave

[mdd99]

I highly recommend the former Repro Images, which was just folded into National Geographic's pro lab. Jeff Whatley is the former Repro owner. He's been in the biz since the start (uised to do Galen Rowell's work) and runs the digital end for NG. I have all my critical work done by his crew. Great guy. He's at 202-496-3191.

[Bruce Watson]

This thread just refuses to die. And for the record, I got suckered into it too. Maybe one of the moderators can look and see if it's possible to lock down the ancient threads so they don't continue to be resurected five years after the original poster asked the question.

Moderators? What say you? In another thread of course :D

[cobalt]

Well David,

That is fine, actually Lazybones and I were laughing at each other in PM's and I still say I am not wrong, different scanners have different software that renders things differently, I can scan with my Tango and it will look completely different than our local service providers scan, due to software, hardware and setup as well as operators..

What is it with you guys that want to argue? geeze, If you thought it was overboard, then so be it, you said it yourself "IF" the drum scan pulls all of the information off, and depending on the service that can be a big IF..

Sorry if my words don't fit your idea of what should be posted..as you said, so be it! As Sal pointed out, and I admit, I didn't notice it, this is a 5 year old thread that was resurrected and by looking as Chris's photos, I am sure he has found the solution that works for him, so it has become a moot point.

Dave

Dave, I see nothing combative in your language or your position. You, my friend, are taking the proverbial bait and flailing about like the noblest of marlins.
Some people like to argue. If there is no reason to argue, they will create one.

[Ted Harris]

Bruce,

It is another thread now so I will just go with it and add some more fuel to the fire. A few points to add for the moment:

1) The most important differences between the various high end scanners is the skill of the operator and the sophistication of the software. For example some high end scanners will run with Silverfast and Aztek supplies Trident sotware to run older Howtek (and I think one or two other) scanners. This software is good but it can't hold a candle to the software package that was originally developed specifically for the Howtek's (forget its name) or the other highly sophisticated, incredibly robust software packages available today from Creo, Screen, ICG, etc. to run their own scanners. For example, when I am making a scan on my Screen Cezanne using their Color Genius software (which is only available for Screen scanners and some consider the best in the biz) I can do almost everything I would want to do in Photoshop and some things I can do in Photoshop like change the shape of individual pixels (not suggesting I do this just that it can be done). The point is that the software is very sophisticated as is that for other modern high end scanners and it leads to a very different workflow than one would use with a prosumer scanner. One example, I often sharpen when scanning because I have much more sophisticated. easily controllable sharpeing algorithms available than I have in CS2. This takes me to the operator part of all this. Because the softwarae is incredibly sophisticated it also has a steep steep learning curve. I'm gettin' pretty good at it but give me another 5 years or so, :).

2) Since the software is so important which software is used on a scanner is also important. If the scanner is being driven by aftermarket software (e.g. Silverfast) the software my not be getting anything like the full potential out of the scanner.

3) Operator choices becoem very critical when using these scanners. Any of them has the capability of producing a scan that captures not only all the detail and tonal range in the image but also captures al the flaws in the film (microscopic bits embedded in the emulsionduring processing, scratches on the film from cutting and handling during packaging, etc.) so the operator has to make critical choices about resolution. Resoution, BTW, with these scanners has an entirely diferent meaning than it does with the prosumer scanners. First, it is testd to printing industry standads and stated numbers are real ot marketing hype. Second, these machines use high quality optics.

3) There is no doubt that Bowling Green has superb equipment and capabilities but as for FLAAR itself it is difficult to tell how objective it is sometimes and how much it is driven by personal opinios of its director. It's reviews are also limited to equipment on hand and thus not comprehensive. What they do they generally do well but they are also thought of int he industry as a bit quirky.

Hopes this adds a bit more light.