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Geoffrey_5995
28-May-2011, 23:20
Found an early Goerz Berlin Weit-Winkel 19x24 cm lens today. It looks to be a wide angle symmetrical design like a Lyneioskop though it is only marked Weit-Winkel. The serial number is quite early so I am interested in dating this lens. The serial number is 1570 making it quite early, from what I was able to find out on the web, say pre-1891 but would like to pin it down to the year it was made. If any forum member has any information, this would be appreciated. Geoff

Ole Tjugen
29-May-2011, 06:31
Goerz made the first lens, an Universal-Aplanat, in 1888, That was followed by four more models introduced in 1890, Serie C through F, which were later renamed to Lynkeioskop.

In other words your lens was made no earlier than 1890,and before 1891. How precisely do you want to know? :-D

Geoffrey_5995
29-May-2011, 07:13
Goerz made the first lens, an Universal-Aplanat, in 1888, That was followed by four more models introduced in 1890, Serie C through F, which were later renamed to Lynkeioskop.

In other words your lens was made no earlier than 1890,and before 1891. How precisely do you want to know? :-D

Thanks Ole, Pretty precise but would like to have a chart showing serial numbers with production dates. Also, could you describe what the four models C through F were? Best, Geoff

Ole Tjugen
29-May-2011, 07:22
Serie C was f;6, Serie D f:8, Serie E f:10.7, and Serie F f:14.

Oh - I also found a mention of an Aplanat (not Universal-Aplanat) from 1889, in three seres, no further information given. That might be what your Weitwinkel is. Seems to have been pretty short lived, and may have been replaced by the new Universal-Aplanat series the following year.

Geoffrey_5995
29-May-2011, 07:26
Serie C was f;6, Serie D f:8, Serie E f:10.7, and Serie F f:14.

Oh - I also found a mention of an Aplanat (not Universal-Aplanat) from 1889, in three seres, no further information given. That might be what your Weitwinkel is. Seems to have been pretty short lived, and may have been replaced by the new Universal-Aplanat series the following year.

Interesting. Mine is f16 max aperture, according to the wheel stop but this could be the Goerz system or the US System. I will need to check the focal length and max aperture to be certain. My guess is that it is approx. a 6 inch lens to cover 8x10.

Steven Tribe
29-May-2011, 12:29
I think you misread the engraving. It probably says 18x24.
Sounds like a series F (later marked as a Lynkeioskop - Goerz did this with the series III which became the Dagor). They had, in 1910, a size no. 1, focal length 15cm, Front lens diameter is 19mm - is marked as an F.15. This is a very squat lens. I can post a catalogue drawing - or the real thing size 3 - if there is any further doubt!

Geoffrey_5995
29-May-2011, 12:55
I think you misread the engraving. It probably says 18x24.
Sounds like a series F (later marked as a Lynkeioskop - Goerz did this with the series III which became the Dagor). They had, in 1910, a size no. 1, focal length 15cm, Front lens diameter is 19mm - is marked as an F.15. This is a very squat lens. I can post a catalogue drawing - or the real thing size 3 - if there is any further doubt!

Hi Steve, Thanks for the info. It is clearly marked 19x24 and clearly f16. I did find it odd that is not 18x24. Please post a catalog drawing. I will try to get some pis of the lens posted. It is quite squat and has a shallow lens shade. I'm curious about the serial # sequence as 1570 seems quite early, especially if they didn't start their numbering system from 1. Some companies started from 1000 so this could be quite early, say from the first one or two years of production. I also dug out another early Goerz with serial # 44538 and marked C.P. GOERZ BERLIN. It has an iris aperture but no indicator numbers for the aperture. This is also a very strage lens. I think it is a two plus two but haven't checked the reflections yet but will and post my finidings along with approx focal length and max aperture.

Fotoguy20d
29-May-2011, 13:15
I have a Rapid Paraplanat, with a serial number some 250 earlier than your 44538. Aperture scale is 6-12-24-48-96-192-384, where the former is 7.7 and the latter 64. Mine is marked the same. It's an Aplanat type (2+2) of 210mm FL.

Dan

Steven Tribe
29-May-2011, 14:11
as requested!
My no. 3 is much later - past 100,000 - so the lens hood was enamelled black.

cdholden
29-May-2011, 14:42
Serie C was f;6, Serie D f:8, Serie E f:10.7, and Serie F f:14.

Oh - I also found a mention of an Aplanat (not Universal-Aplanat) from 1889, in three seres, no further information given. That might be what your Weitwinkel is. Seems to have been pretty short lived, and may have been replaced by the new Universal-Aplanat series the following year.

Ole,
Is the "Serie" nomenclature consistent among German manufacturers? I've got a Busch Rapid Aplanat Serie D that is f8.

Chris

Steven Tribe
29-May-2011, 15:03
Ole, you say:

"Serie C was f;6, Serie D f:8, Serie E f:10.7, and Serie F f:14"

In 1910,
Series C was from F5.3 - 6.3.
Series E was F7.7
and Series F was F.15.

I imagine Series D was given up as Busch sold thousands and thousands of his serie D aplanat with the same specifications as the D lynkeioskop. The 8"/200mm Busch must be the most sold aplanat ever. The Goerz range was about double the price of the Busch series.

Geoffrey_5995
29-May-2011, 15:29
Hi Dan, Would like to see pics of your Paraplanat. Steve thanks for the info. Here are some pics of my lenses.

Geoffrey_5995
29-May-2011, 15:30
Here's the last pic.

Geoffrey_5995
29-May-2011, 20:23
Got a chance to look more closely at the Goerz Berlin #44538. The focal length is approx. 9 inches and max aperture is f8 making me think this is an Aplanat but the reflections don't indicate this. Dan, it is also not a Rapid Paraplanat. My lens has four brights and what looks like three faints though I might be reading it wrong. The four brights are a definite making this lens either a Double Gauss or a Dialyt. If the faints are correct it has 3 glued surfaces so it would two groups with each group having five elements with one air space in the group. However the lens in mount isn't that thick so if it had five glasses, these glasses would need to be very thin. Certainly a strange lens. The serial number seems to put it around 1898. I don't understand why there are no markings for the aperture. It could have originally had a wheel stop that would have the markings but the aperture looks original and barrel doesn't look monkeyed with.

Fotoguy20d
30-May-2011, 06:28
Geoff,

Here it is

Dan

Geoffrey_5995
30-May-2011, 06:51
Hi Dan, Thanks for the pics. Clearly a different lens than mine. But very interesting. Thanks, Geoff