NEW to LF

[Martin_Johansen]

Hello,

Here is some new questions before i start shooting more film with the Sinar.
I am taking pictures of people (headshots, 2/3rd and whole figure)

1. I have heard that i cannot shoot wide open 5.6 with LF, that the biggest opening i should use is around 16. Is this correct?

2. I have a 300 mm, and a 150 mm, and for some reasons i am more comfortable using the 150 mm, but how close to the subject can i use this 150 mm?

3. have some problems getting the results i want when i tilt shift, is it anywhere on the internet that explains the different tilt shift techniques with examplephotos?

4. Just to get this right. if i shoot with a 300 mm, then the lengt between film plane and lens plane should be 300 MM? If i make the length between FP and LP longer, say 600 mm, then i need more light, or compensate with 2 f stops? Wider opening?

5. If i go 200 mm between FP and LP, with a 300 mm lens, do i need to compensate this way as well?

6. I have some diazfilm from 1989, that probarly have been stored cool. Would you overexpose this by one stop, two stops, or precise?

Best Regards

Martin

[Joanna Carter]

1. I have heard that i cannot shoot wide open 5.6 with LF, that the biggest opening i should use is around 16. Is this correct?
It's just a camera like any other; you can shoot at any aperture you wnat, as long as you understand the depth of field that the chosen aperture gives you


2. I have a 300 mm, and a 150 mm, and for some reasons i am more comfortable using the 150 mm, but how close to the subject can i use this 150 mm?
You can use any lens up to the maximum bellows extension the camera allows; but for portraiture you would not want to get too close in case you get too much distortion of facial features.


3. have some problems getting the results i want when i tilt shift, is it anywhere on the internet that explains the different tilt shift techniques with examplephotos?
It would be unusual to use tilt or shift for portraiture


4. Just to get this right. if i shoot with a 300 mm, then the lengt between film plane and lens plane should be 300 MM?
Unless the lens is a "tele" variety, which may require a shorter bellows extension


If i make the length between FP and LP longer, say 600 mm, then i need more light, or compensate with 2 f stops? Wider opening?
At double the normal focal length, you are heading into macro territory and at double the focal length, you will get a 1:1 magnification. Yes, you will need to compensate for bellows extension; the formula is (bellows length ^2) / (focal length ^2) or (600 ^2) / (300 ^2) = 4, or 2 stops.


5. If i go 200 mm between FP and LP, with a 300 mm lens, do i need to compensate this way as well?
You can't focus a lens at less than its focal length.


6. I have some diazfilm from 1989, that probarly have been stored cool. Would you overexpose this by one stop, two stops, or precise?
That' is something you can only experiment with.

[Doremus Scudder]

Let's help get you going here. First the simplified versions of the answers :-)

1. I have heard that i cannot shoot wide open 5.6 with LF, that the biggest opening i should use is around 16. Is this correct?

You can shoot wide open, it will just not be as sharp. LF lenses typically are sharpest at around f/22. Also, you will have very little depth-of-field wide open. However, if that is the look you like, then by all means shoot at f/5.6. If, however, you are looking for optimum sharpness and depth-of-field, shoot at smaller f-stops.

2. I have a 300 mm, and a 150 mm, and for some reasons i am more comfortable using the 150 mm, but how close to the subject can i use this 150 mm?

As a lens focuses on subjects closer to the camera, you need more bellows extension. Your 150mm lens will focus as close as you have bellows length. If you have 300mm of bellows extension, you can get 1:1 magnification. Keep in mind that you need to adjust exposure when you extend the bellows quite a bit. Portraits and general landscapes, etc. will need no adjustment, but if you extend your bellows more than a couple of inches longer than infinity focus, you will need to add exposure to compensate for the light fall off caused by the extra distance (it works according to the inverse square law if you are familiar with that; light intensity decreases as the square of the distance). At any rate, there are tables for finding the right exposure compensation. Just Google.

3. have some problems getting the results i want when i tilt shift, is it anywhere on the internet that explains the different tilt shift techniques with examplephotos?

There are lots of sources. Google camera movements. These might get you started:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_camera http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/camera%20movements.html However, you should invest in a couple of good books. Ansel Adams "The Camera" is recommended as is Leslie Stoebel's "View Camera Technique" Many like Steve Simmons Book on the view camera as well. You do not say where you are located. Perhaps there are resources in your country/language that I am not aware of.

4. Just to get this right. if i shoot with a 300 mm, then the lengt between film plane and lens plane should be 300 MM? If i make the length between FP and LP longer, say 600 mm, then i need more light, or compensate with 2 f stops? Wider opening?

Exactly right. See #2 above and search on bellows extension. It's really fairly simple. I carry a small tape measure and a card with extension factors for the lenses I use.

5. If i go 200 mm between FP and LP, with a 300 mm lens, do i need to compensate this way as well?

Your 300mm lens will not focus with only 200mm of bellows draw. The theoretical focus there is "beyond infinity." You need at least 300mm bellows draw to focus on infinity. If, however, you meant 500mm bellows draw (300+200 more), then yes, you need to adjust exposure. My chart says + 1 1/3 stops.

6. I have some diazfilm from 1989, that probarly have been stored cool. Would you overexpose this by one stop, two stops, or precise?

I assume you mean transparency film (Diafilm) Try a couple of test shots at box speed. If you are lucky, it will be alright. With age, color film loses color balance. If your transparencies look underexposed, add exposure and test again. If the color is not what you need, toss it or use it for practicing movements :-)

Best and good luck,

Doremus Scudder

[Martin_Johansen]

Dear Both Joanna, and Doremus!

Thanks alot for excellent answers, and for guiding me here. Its really nice of you to take the time and give me answers, links and make me a bit wiser =)

I am located in norway, the booktips was excellent, i´ll probarly buy them from amazon.

This is the look im going for with the tilt shift, so if anyone has an idea how this is done (tilting/shifting) please let me know

Have a nice day friends, ill show you pictures later if it got any good.

[Ole Tjugen]

That photo looks more like extremely shallow DOF than tilt, to me at least. But you can get similar results with a little tilt, or swing, and wide aperture!

Hvor i Norge er du, Martin? Kanskje vi kan finne noen lokale hjelpere?

[Martin_Johansen]

Thanks everyone, i just put up the camera in the darkroom checking the entire camera with a flashlight and i found three holes in the bellows. But i have another one without holes in it. So one problem solved. Then i found out i have put film holder in the spring back the wrong way, (noob) so problem two solved. Now i also think i have been a little fast with the darkslide pulling it out/putting it back a little fast so its not straight on, and because the film holder was the wrong way could have given me movement in the process. phuuu

Ok, so i managed to do everything wrong, on my way out now for some new exposures =)

Jeg er i Oslo Ole, Så kult med flere nordmenn her. Jeg har ringt rundt til flere storformatbrukere og gitt dem alle sammen Hodepine =)

Håper/tror jeg begynner å få kontroll nå, på det elementære ihvertfall =)
hvor i Norge er du?

[Ole Tjugen]

There are always more mistakes to make with large format, I think there was a thread about it a while ago? Anyway, most of us have made many more mistakes than that. My personal "favourites" are pulling the dark slide without closing the lens, exposing at f:4.5 with the shutter time as if I was using f:32, and pulling the wrong slide.

Jeg er i Bergensområdet, men det er en god del av oss galninger i Oslo!

[Dave Jeffery]

I'm not sure how much LF that you have shot but there's lot's of great information on the homepage of this site.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/how-to-operate.html

Have fun with it!

[Alan Gales]

[QUOTE=Martin_Johansen;729496]Hello,

2. I have a 300 mm, and a 150 mm, and for some reasons i am more comfortable using the 150 mm, but how close to the subject can i use this 150 mm?


If you have shot a 35mm camera or a full frame DSLR a 300mm lens on 4x5 roughly translates to a 100mm on those cameras. A 150mm lens translates to about a 50mm.

There is a lot of argument on this subject of how close to your subject you can be with your camera. Generally, the unofficial rule is no closer than 6 feet with any focal length lens or you risk distortion.

The best advice that I can give you is to just shoot, have fun and find out what works for you!

[Martin_Johansen]

Hi all, and thanks alot for the help, here is my pictures i did today, shot at 5.6

My main problem now is dust, do you know how i get less of it?

And i dont understand what you are saying about focus if the below is under 15 cm long shooting with a 150mm. The below was between 8 and 10 cm today, and it still looks like im in focus?

http://martinjohansen.no/wordpress/2011/365-days/dag-137-sinar-large-format-test/

[Lenny Eiger]

Hi all, and thanks alot for the help, here is my pictures i did today, shot at 5.6

My main problem now is dust, do you know how i get less of it?

And i dont understand what you are saying about focus if the below is under 15 cm long shooting with a 150mm. The below was between 8 and 10 cm today, and it still looks like im in focus?

http://martinjohansen.no/wordpress/2011/365-days/dag-137-sinar-large-format-test/

There are lots of ideas about dust. Many use compressed air, supplied by a compressor or canned air, and clean their holders just before loading the film. My favorite addition to this its the Ilford Antistaticum cloth. It doesn't have to be Ilford.... only an antistatic cloth (or a cloth impregnated with an antistatic fluid of some sort). Rubbed over the holders before dusting off helps me a lot....

As to the questions of how close, how far, how long should the bellows be - I would say that the one nice thing about large format is that you have a ground glass to look at. You only need bellows extension calculations (which are very easy) if you are shooting very close...

I shoot mostly all the way closed down vs wide open. I like that depth of field....

Welcome to the club! One note of caution - we're all mildly insane. Most of us have spent way too much on way too many cameras and lenses....

Have fun!

Lenny

[Jack Dahlgren]

Hi all, and thanks alot for the help, here is my pictures i did today, shot at 5.6

My main problem now is dust, do you know how i get less of it?

And i dont understand what you are saying about focus if the below is under 15 cm long shooting with a 150mm. The below was between 8 and 10 cm today, and it still looks like im in focus?

http://martinjohansen.no/wordpress/2011/365-days/dag-137-sinar-large-format-test/

It all depends how you are measuring. The distance should be from the lens flange to the film plane. This is typically longer than the bellows alone. It is not surprising if the camera back and front standard add a few centimeters. Further, some lenses have a telephoto design, meaning that the distance between the lens flange and the film plane is less than the focal length. However, most lenses focus at infinity fairly close to their focal length.

[Joanna Carter]

And i dont understand what you are saying about focus if the below is under 15 cm long shooting with a 150mm. The below was between 8 and 10 cm today, and it still looks like im in focus?
As Jack says, you may be measuring the focus length incorrectly. I have just tried all sorts of movements to see whether it could, in any way, be possible to pass the plane of sharp focus through a subject with less than 150mm bellows draw. My conclusion is - absolutely not.

And, since I cannot think of anyone who makes a 150mm tele lens, that rules that out as a possibility as well.

You need to measure the distance from the film plane to the lens board, not just the length of the bellows.

[WootSK]

I don't think that it is quite possible, but if you do shoot a bit too close-up such that the subject is a bit bigger or same as your ground glass showing, you might need to apply bellow factor.

Regarding tilt shift, there is a difference between the front and the back tilt shift, the back tilting is exceptionally useful for correcting distortion when shooting tall building. Suggest reading up more about Lens plane and Film plane.

Hope it helps.

[jp]

Good start Martin.

To better understand movements, go to a less minimalist scene, such as a landscape so you can see the plane of focus adjust, or an urban landscape or other scene of rectangles to see how perspective can be adjusted.

My method of keeping dust out of photos to is prevent it at every possible step. I run an air cleaner in my darkroom to keep it fairly dust free in there, and that's where I load film and store empty film holders. If you use some other dark space such as a changing bag to load film, that too must be very clean inside.

Once a clean holder is loaded, it goes into a plastic anti-static bag like would be used to store electronics parts. It stays in the bag at all times except when in the camera. This storage keeps the film dust free. Some people who don't plastic-bag their film holders have dedicated tight containers like lunch coolers or more purposeful containers to keep them in.

Dust should also be blown out of the inside of the camera once in a while too. Extending the bellows sucks a small amount of dusty air in.

The worst part of dust for me is scanning. It's not done in the clean darkroom, so I have lots of room dust to contend with; a family of four, a cat, and sometimes open windows don't help that.

[Michael E]

This is the look im going for with the tilt shift, so if anyone has an idea how this is done (tilting/shifting) please let me know

One thing about terminology: The "tilt/shift" effect owns its name to the facts that DSLR photographers use tilt/shift lenses - lenses that provide two kinds of movement. This effect actually uses only tilt. Shift is a completely different story. You own a view camera with lots of movements. Go ahead and use them all. Don't use them all at once, try one kind of movement at a time. For the tilt effect, you might want to look up Theodor Scheimpflug and his principal.

Michael

[Marizu]

1. I have heard that i cannot shoot wide open 5.6 with LF, that the biggest opening i should use is around 16. Is this correct?
[QUOTE]
It is probably easier to get sharp pictures at f16 assuming you have enough light. I regularly shoot portraits on 5x4 at f4 or f5.6.

[QUOTE=Martin_Johansen;729496]
2. I have a 300 mm, and a 150 mm, and for some reasons i am more comfortable using the 150 mm, but how close to the subject can i use this 150 mm?

Use it for as long as it looks good. It should be fine for full and half body shots. Keep your eye out for bulbous faces and disappearing ears if you go closer.



3. have some problems getting the results i want when i tilt shift, is it anywhere on the internet that explains the different tilt shift techniques with examplephotos?

Using camera movements is an intricate subject.
I do use them regularly when shooting head shot portraits.
I often use front swing on head shots to keep both eyes in focus when the head is at an angle to the camera.
I occasionally use rise, fall or shift to change make small changes of framing or to modify the relationship between the subject and objects in the background so that they are less distracting or complement the composition.
You will have to read up on this. For full and half body, I wouldn't expect to use movements even at f5.6



4. Just to get this right. if i shoot with a 300 mm, then the lengt between film plane and lens plane should be 300 MM? If i make the length between FP and LP longer, say 600 mm, then i need more light, or compensate with 2 f stops? Wider opening?

Try using a Salzgeber Quickdisc. You can download and print one from the web. It makes this stuff easy and frees your mind up for the creative elements of the photograph.

Good luck, Martin.
I'm sure that you will have great fun learning this.