Ebay dispute over camera, advice appreciated

[Starpoke]

Hello,

I am in a dispute over a Crown Graflex camera that I recently bought on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220781714375&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_3957wt_1141

When it arrived I noticed that the top half of the bellows were covered in black tape and that the lens had no bulb setting, neither of these points are mentioned in the item description. The seller maintains that he had no need to mention the tape as he described the item condition as 'seller refurbished' and that the tape was clearly visible in the images. I did show the ebay listing to two colleagues who own 5x4 cameras before I made the purchase and none of us noticed the tape as the bellows are also black.

I also asked the seller how he kept the shutter open in order to set up a shot and focus using the glass plate and he replied, 'as to the B setting that shutter never had one but i learned to shove the timer a little way past 1 and sort of hold the shutter on the cable release'. I tried this with a cable release but found I had to manually hold the lens with one hand to stop it from closing. This would make doing long exposures near impossible, something I had bought the camera for.

I have many years of experience of photography, being a full time lecturer in the subject, but lack experience of large format cameras. Being new to this forum and knowing nobody, I would greatly appreciate your impartial opinions on the following two questions to put my mind at ease;


Even if he thought it was clearly visible, should the seller have mentioned the tape on the bellows in the item description?
How normal is it for a lens on a large format camera to have no means of keeping the shutter open indefinitely?

[Wayne]

I can see the tape in your auction's pictures, and its fairly obvious when you tell me its taped, but I might have overlooked it otherwise. I think you definitely have a right to expect a better bellows than that, or be told in the description about it. I recently sold a camera here that had one small piece of tape and I didnt mention it, but I did show it in the picture and test it for light proofness. And I did not call it refurbishing, lol!

And based on his reply to your feedback, he sounds like a jerk. Pretty poor rating too. Best not to deal with anyone with such a poor rating.

I'm not familiar with those lenses so I'll leave that alone. I think you got soaked.

[Starpoke]

Thanks for the feedback Wayne,


I can see the tape in your auction's pictures, and its fairly obvious when you tell me its taped, but I might have overlooked it otherwise.

This is my point, if the tape had been mentioned in the description I would have noticed it in the images and not bought the camera.

[Daniel Stone]

I think those Polaroid shutter has/had TWO cable release sockets, one for regular shutter speed firing, and the other for B(bulb).

try a cable release in BOTH(if it has two) sockets, and see if it works.

the tape might be there as reinforcement, some bellows can sag over time. However, IMO, the tape should have been mentioned.

try both cable release sockets to see if one works as a B setting

-Dan

welcome to the forum BTW, some might call it "group therapy" ;)

[Leigh]

I looked over the photos and did not see the tape you mention. It's not an obvious cosmetic defect. If the bellows work (normal flexibility) and are light tight I wouldn't be overly concerned.

The lens/shutter is not original to that camera. Quite probably it never did have a bulb setting. The camera was meant to use the rangefinder for focusing (requires a cam matched to the lens), and the quick finder for framing, rather than using the ground glass.

Press cameras were for photographers who normally did grab shots rather than carefully-rendered images. I used one in the early 1960's, and found it quite good for the intended purpose. That's not to say you can't take excellent pix with them. You certainly can, but that's not the use for which they were designed.

Given that the lens/shutters are readily changeable and inexpensive I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Much information on those neat cameras at www.graflex.org

- Leigh

[dsphotog]

I have a Prontor shutter, it needs a locking cable release in the second hole, to hold the shutter open.

[Starpoke]

I think those Polaroid shutter has/had TWO cable release sockets, one for regular shutter speed firing, and the other for B(bulb).

try a cable release in BOTH(if it has two) sockets, and see if it works.

Thanks for the tip Dan,

The lens does have two cable release sockets, I wondered what the second one was for. The seller must not have known this either or he would have told me. I have packed the camera away now ready for posting back, so will only try this if ebay finds in the sellers favour and I can't return it.

[Starpoke]

welcome to the forum BTW, some might call it "group therapy" ;)

Thanks, I'm so angry at the moment I definitely need some!

[kurtdriver]

Some real gems of fiction here.

"It's in good condition both functionally and cosmetically."

Holes in the bellows, covered up with tape are not cosmetically good condition. You don't need to know anything about camera to know that.

"It has been only lightly used"

So lightly it has holes in it?

You've been scammed, and I would recommend that you go through eBay's complaint process. Take some really good photos of those bellows, remove some of the tape and photograph the tears. I've been through that process and won, they never asked for the pictures.

His feedback is quite good, except for the one you left. I'd disregard the other negative one, the buyer seems to have changed his mind and tried to get out of it.

[Starpoke]

Thanks for the feedback Kurt.

When I asked the seller about the tape this is how he responded:

'the bellows have special protective tape on them is to stop any holes BEFORE they appear and this is visible in the photos.
this was part of the 'seller refurbished' description of the 'item condition' part of the ad. this work was done by a local specialist who services all my cameras. to casually call the bellows 'taped' is therefore absurd. they are clearly REFURBISHED as it says and shows in the ad.'

I'm not sure if I should take the tape off, because if I send it back I don't want him to be able to say that I damaged the bellows by removing the tape, or that I made some holes in the bellows myself to get a refund.

[Daniel Stone]

don't remove it, otherwise its like voiding a "warranty"

there's plenty of people here who sell/buy Graflex cameras, after the 30day waiting period(if its still in affect), you can put up a WTB ad.

just be nice, Paypal will like you if you're nice to them, rather than screaming bloody murder

-Dan

[Starpoke]

I'd disregard the other negative one, the buyer seems to have changed his mind and tried to get out of it.

The seller is actually located in France, not Swansea, UK as the listing suggests. I guess the other buyer wanted to collect the item in person paying cash and wasn't able to. That feedback wasn't there when I made the purchase, if it was I wouldn't have gone ahead.

[kurtdriver]

You might ask him for the contact info for the person who did this. Are they light tight? You can take them off and take into a dark room and shine a flashlight up it. If light comes out of the side, it's a problem. These aren't the first bellows to be taped, it works to cover tears, so if they're light tight you might not worry about it. But that ad should have been explicit about that. Any other complaints?

[Starpoke]

just be nice, Paypal will like you if you're nice to them, rather than screaming bloody murder

-Dan

I have been nothing but polite, as I try to be everyday. :) He on the other hand has been nothing but aggressive and rude from the moment I sent a return request, which the listing states he would do even if I had only changed my mind about the item. Hopefully ebay/paypal has noted this.

He let it slip in his last rant to me that paypal has not released his money as I have lodged a complaint which did make me feel a bit better.

I think I will be looking on here rather than ebay after 30 days if I get refunded :cool:

[mandoman7]

A 93% feedback rating is actually pretty bad. I would regard it as a red flag, and bid only under certain circumstances. Clearly the seller could have shown the tape better if he was truly interested in full disclosure. But the description if vague enough to give the seller an edge should there be a dispute. This, I think, is fairly typical of sellers with feedback in the low 90's.

[Starpoke]

A 93% feedback rating is actually pretty bad. I would regard it as a red flag, and bid only under certain circumstances.

Unfortunately he had 100% when I made the purchase :(

[Alan Gales]

First of all never buy anything from a Seller with 93% feedback. To achieve a 93% you are most likely truly dreadful. There are exceptions but very rarely.

The Seller sounds like a flake to me to begin with just reading his auction.

Yes, the tape is hard to see and definitely should have been disclosed in writing.

Keep your cool, be nice, and file a claim.

I wish you the best!

Alan

[Starpoke]

Many thanks Alan :D

[Vlad Soare]

Technically, he's "clean". The tape, though not mentioned specifically, is visible in the pictures. Although he doesn't specifically disclose the lack of a B setting, he does mention the exact type of shutter. I don't know Prontor-Polaroid shutters, but if they all lack the B setting (I mean, it's not a special feature of this particular sample), then technically speaking he didn't lie to you.
So, I suspect that he'll win the dispute if you open one.

That being said, it's clear to me that he did this on purpose. He made the flaws slightly visible (the tape) or inferable (the B setting) so he couldn't be accused of hiding them, but at the same time he didn't mention them at all and made sure they can't be spotted unless one looks very carefully and is very knowledgeable about shutters. He was sneaky.


Pretty poor rating too. Best not to deal with anyone with such a poor rating.
The rating can be misleading. It's only calculated over the past twelve months. You can have a long history of 100% positive feedback, but if you stop selling or buying for one year and when you return you get one negative feedback, then your rating will be extremely low for a long time.

[Starpoke]

I've never had to open a dispute on ebay before. Do you think if they find in his favour they will at least let me return the camera as he states he accepts returns on the item page?

[Ole Tjugen]

As I read one of the other (positive) feedbacks, it says "Good seller but lives in France yet charges postage in Sterling". That should be a little warning that he's not 100% honest?

I didn't see the tape in the pictures. Maybe with a larger and better monitor - but anyway it isn't "clearly visible". Nor would I rate a piece of tape as "refurbishment", no matter who has taped it.

[Alan Gales]

Many thanks Alan :D

I gave you advice according to the information that I had. The Seller had 93% positive feedback. You posted that the Seller had 100% positive feedback when you bid and this was posted while I was writing my reply. My reply was posted and then I was able to read your updated post. Just trying to help. Not trying to be an @sshole!

[Starpoke]

Sorry Alan, I wasn't being sarcastic, I was saying thanks for wishing me all the best.

[Alan Gales]

Sorry Alan, I wasn't being sarcastic, I was saying thanks for wishing me all the best.

No problem. I saw the grinning face and assumed incorrectly. I have been in your position before and I do wish you the best! :)

[Starpoke]

Thanks for all the advice so far. The seller has said he wants to think over his position and contact me in a day or two. I'll keep you updated.

[Steven Tribe]

1. This not the first Graflex he has sold. The previous one had a "new" bellows mounted.
2. The functioning of the shutter made for Polaroid is very well known.
3. Tape application on the top of the bellows is noticeable in all the photos (ragged edge) and as a very aparte surface finish in one of these. But I would never list an item without mentioning it.
4. I may be out of touch with current prices but the selling (buy-it-now?) price seems well above what I would have expected. Perhaps because these are not too common this side of the Atlantic? This one has only the spring back - whilst the earlier Crown (same price) was with the International back.
5. His return policy is such that a "this is not what I expected because..." note on receipt should have lead to friendly return. Rushing to give negative feedback is not the way resolve a "bad" deal. Especialy when there is another negative feedback for this seller "lurking"!
6. New bellows for the model are available.

[Starpoke]

5. His return policy is such that a "this is not what I expected because..." note on receipt should have lead to friendly return. Rushing to give negative feedback is not the way resolve a "bad" deal. Especialy when there is another negative feedback for this seller "lurking"!


I did attempt to politely initiate a return with the type of note you mention above and offered to pay both his and my postage, but he rejected this as he wanted me to pay his ebay fees too. I felt I had to give negative feedback as he was saying he had not received any payment due to me not marking the item as received. I may have made an error but I could see no way of doing this without leaving feedback.

[eddie]

I've never had to open a dispute on ebay before. Do you think if they find in his favour they will at least let me return the camera as he states he accepts returns on the item page?

They will find in your favor. They always do.

The neg feedback is fine. Leave it as it is to help the next buyer.

Keep us posted on bow it plays out.

[msk2193]

Having sold and bought on e-bay for over a decade, I can assure you that you have a good case.

The tape is not visible on a small screen, the seller stated "good cosmetic condition" which it was not.

Open the dispute, in the meantime give him a negative rating and state the cosmetic condition as a blatant lie if it allows you to leave a rating while processing a claim.
And in the future, deal only with a reputable seller that has over 99% positive feedback.

Good luck

[Steven Tribe]

As the original poster said - at the time of purchase he had a 100 % feedback. Two quick negative feedbacks can quickly change this with a low volume seller.

Getting too "nasty" will just delay the resolution. E**y will just send a dispute back to you, in the first instance, anyway.

"Incorrect/insufficient text description" is better than "Blatant Lie" - frustrated/disappointed sellers can get very nasty.

[rcdurston]

Does that lens cover 4x5?
i was looking at that same one. I bought a Series D from a guy in England two weeks ago. When it arrived the shutter seemed jammed. I asked around on here and a couple of other experts. I emailed the seller of my concern and he took it back and paid all the postage. He will be getting a positive feedback even though the camera didn't work.
In the meantime I got a Crown Graflex Pacemaker with the top viewfinder off eBay. Paid a little more than I wanted but its in top nick.
Good luck with your dispute.
R

[Dan Fromm]

Rob, the 135/4.7 Xenar just covers 4x5, is a lens for 4x5 press cameras. That it doesn't cover much more than 4x5 isn't a problem with Graphics, which have tiny movements. It would be a more serious limitation on a real view camera.

[Stoogley]

I'm sure eBay will find in favor you, as well.

Even with that aside, the seller states his return policy as:

"Return policy
If disatisfied I will refund puchase cost when the item is returned to me in the same condition that I sent it out."

Not, "if not as described", just plain out dissatisfied, (even with the lesser common spellings of dissatisfied and purchase).

Not sure what the seller has to think over.

[Scott Sharp]

It is a roll of the dice buying on eBay, and a disappointment when something is not as described. If you can't return the Crown Graphic, think about keeping the camera, clean it up and try taking some photos with it. Crown Graphics are very rugged cameras. It doesn't look like it has been dropped, so the bed is probably in alignment. You can recondition the leather with black dye and Neatsfoot oil. The metal will polish up and lightly lube hinges and very lightly grease the track/yoke with vasoline. The bellows may not look pretty with the tape, but if the camera folds up OK they should work. The Prontor shutter sounds like a pain to use, buy a 135mm Xenar or Symmar in a Compur or Copal shutter and you should have a great field camera. Best of luck.

[sully75]

From previous experience, I wouldn't mess with the camera at all. If it's not as described, then send it back and get your refund. I ended up fiddling with a screwed up camera, and broke off some of the half-assed repairs that had been made to it, and it caused all kinds of problems.

[sanchi heuser]

I have been nothing but polite, as I try to be everyday. :) He on the other hand has been nothing but aggressive and rude from the moment I sent a return request, which the listing states he would do even if I had only changed my mind about the item. Hopefully ebay/paypal has noted this.

He let it slip in his last rant to me that paypal has not released his money as I have lodged a complaint which did make me feel a bit better.

I think I will be looking on here rather than ebay after 30 days if I get refunded :cool:

Hi,

Did you pay with Paypal?

They will propose that you send back the item on your own costs and the
seller refunds you the price + initial shipment costs (not the cost of shipping back).
If the seller and you both give their OK than the dispute is officially solved for Ebay
and the case will be automatically closed by Ebay after a defined period.
That means that Ebay will do absolutely nothing for you once the case/dispute is closed!!!

If there's any trouble eg. seller says that the item didn't arrive,
or he can't refund you cause Paypal has freezed him, than it's absolutely necessary to contact Ebay again and complain about the seller and report exactly the problems. I think it's the customer service you have to contact, maybe someone here knows it
for shure?

Do not have any mercy with the seller, remember that if you wait too long and
believe his promises like "I refund you but just let me wait until the money is released from Paypal..." than in the worst case both the item and the money is away. Paypal will do nothing and the only chance is to accuse the seller.

Andi

[Starpoke]

It is a roll of the dice buying on eBay, and a disappointment when something is not as described. If you can't return the Crown Graphic, think about keeping the camera, clean it up and try taking some photos with it. Crown Graphics are very rugged cameras. It doesn't look like it has been dropped, so the bed is probably in alignment. You can recondition the leather with black dye and Neatsfoot oil. The metal will polish up and lightly lube hinges and very lightly grease the track/yoke with vasoline. The bellows may not look pretty with the tape, but if the camera folds up OK they should work. The Prontor shutter sounds like a pain to use, buy a 135mm Xenar or Symmar in a Compur or Copal shutter and you should have a great field camera. Best of luck.

You've made me feel a bit better about the camera thanks :D

[Starpoke]

Hi,

Did you pay with Paypal?



I did Andi. Paypal has not released the payment to him, I guess until the dispute is resolved.

Can I say thank you to all of you. I'm so glad I found this forum, I've been in a foul mood the last few days and you've all really cheered me up.

[sanchi heuser]

I did Andi. Paypal has not released the payment to him, I guess until the dispute is resolved.

Can I say thank you to all of you. I'm so glad I found this forum, I've been in a foul mood the last few days and you've all really cheered me up.

Is it right that you already opened a dispute/case?
Do you have an answer from Ebay?

Andi

[Starpoke]

I have opened a case, if the seller and I have not resolved the matter by 29th May then the case gets decided on by Ebay.

[sully75]

I believe, for better or for worse, that these things usually are decided in favor of the buyer.

[sanchi heuser]

I have opened a case, if the seller and I have not resolved the matter by 29th May then the case gets decided on by Ebay.

That's fine.

But be aware that after an agreement is made and the sellers nonetheless tends to delay the refund that you have to go to Ebay a second time and complain.
The same is if the shipping needs a longer time or any other problems occur, you have to report to Ebay.

Ebay tells you that you can open a case but they don't tell you the complete rules of the game:
That once an agreement is made between you and the seller that they are done with it unless you report problems with the execution of the agreement.

I bet the seller will delay the refund and he'll whine that the money is freezed and
he 'll blame you to having opened the case... :D


Andi

[jnantz]

don't bother with ebay filing a dispute
go right to paypal ( if that is who you used )
you can have the case escalated it will take about a week to get resolved ..

good luck !
john

[banjo]

if he didn't say that it had tape on the bellows!! ebay will see to that you get your money back !! as to not telling the hole truth!!
now as to the shutter that would not be a reason to refund! as to you should have learned more before buying
by cheaking out that shutter. Now I have made that booboo my self

I would say good BUT as I said ebay will help so let them

[Richard Rankin]

I tried an Ebay dispute once and it was a total farce. It was one of the most Kafka-esque experiences of my life.

I'd go straight to Paypal. Looks to me like he has a return policy, so you shouldn't have to prove anything at all.

[David Karp]

I opened one dispute via PayPal. I laid everything out very clearly, as if I was writing out my positions to a neutral third party. Wanted to make it clear to the seller how absurd their position was. After a very little bit of wrangling, he agreed to my proposal. I was satisfied with the result.

[Heespharm]

Btw when something is refurbished that means it's made new... not made functional again.... Obviously this camera did not come with tape on the bellow.... So it's not refurbished.... Escalate this as high as it will go

[Wayne]

I agree with John, go to Paypal. The one time I had a problem they were excellent about it. I'd also call them rather than waiting for them to reply by email, but thats just me. Say HEY, this is what happened, what will you do? I bet they will take care of you.

[Starpoke]

Btw when something is refurbished that means it's made new... not made functional again.... Obviously this camera did not come with tape on the bellow.... So it's not refurbished.... Escalate this as high as it will go

That is a very good point. I'll be using this.

[kurtdriver]

Has anyone ever heard of taping bellows to prevent tearing?

[Rick A]

I really had to look hard at enlarged photos to see a reflection on the bellows, nearly indescerable as tape, looks like bad lighting. To me (and a dictionary) refurbished means made new(or as new) taped bellows shouts out "bad, cheap-ass repair job". I would definitly demand a refund on this basis alone. As to the lens, chalk that up to lesson learnt.

As far as "taping to prevent tearing", only if I see a frayed area looking like it needs reinforcing, then ordering a replacment bellows.

[narcosynthesis]

It does seem odd to me that he made such a long and well written description, then failed to mention something as obvious as the bellows were taped - a mention of "the bellows have been professionally refurbished to prevent holes" or something similar would have been more than enough information to make your decision on.

I would also say that unless you are specifically looking for the tape, it is not hugely obvious in the smaller photos on ebay.

[Jack the boatman]

Hello,

I have looked at the photographs and, even knowing that the bellows have been taped, I can't see the tape.

On the shutter. I have a Polaroid mp4 which looks quite similar to yours. On mine, the left hand lever looking at the front of the lens operates the shutter, either manually or with cable release. On the RHS at 4 o' clock position there is another lever which opens the shuuter manually or again by cable release. Yours has a knob of some sort in the 4 o' clock position so I guess it is similar to mine.

Hope this helps

Jack

[tom thomas]

On the shutter and t/b use, I found this posting made by Bob Soloman back in 2008 on photo.net/LF Forum when someone asked about a similar shutter.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Salomon , Feb 05, 2008; 12:35 p.m.


The Prontor Pro shutter has two cable release sockets. One is for the cable release. The other is for a small, handheld Prontor Professional controller. The controller has a large knob with 3 setting positions. The first is shutter open at taking aperture. The second is shutter open at full aperture. The third is shutter closed at taking aperture. At the third position the shutter can be fired.

If you don't have the controller then you can use a cable release. As an accessory you can get two controllers. The first sticks straight up and is the aperture selector which can be read from the front or the back of the camera. The aperture can be set on this controller. If you have the aperture controller then you can add to it a shutter speed controller which can also be set and read from the front or the rear of the shutter.

The aperture stick uses stick-on scales that are specific to your lens' aperture scale. The shutter speed controller is specific to the shutter size.

The entire system has been discontinued for several years. Finding anything new except for the special Prontor Professional cable release that fit through the controller will be very difficult. Our last controllers were sold to Marflex who may still have some
---------------------------------------------

I agree on the taped bellows photos. Knowing they have been taped, I can just see the edges of the tape on the left side of the bellows and in one place on top where a small white area is evident. It appears that someone did a good job but it's not "refurbished" but repaired.

I'm also wondering where the leather strap and the top mounted view finder are. Obviously they aren't mentioned either but being missing, knocks the value down in my book.

This seller is probably a Brit Expat living in France who has his bank account in England, or in Jersey. That's why he wants pounds, not Euros.

Good luck.
"Not feeling so bad now about having being burnt on E-Bay Graflex win", Tom

[Wayne Aho]

Graflex bellows are excellent and long lasting, the only thing tape will do is make them sticky. For the price paid, this should have had a nice bellows, and the original optar or ektar lens with the graflex shutter and no issues. I have sold several of the speed/crown graphics over the years in excellent condition (never thought of adding tape) for usually around $200, and would have gladly refunded to any purchaser if they were not pleased.

[Jim Ewins]

At one time eBay had a escrow service which was great. Safety for everyone. Now one should consider that the product will probably be defective - so it will need to be fixed, if you buy it. Ebay doesn't make $$ fixing bad deals.

[Starpoke]

The seller 'graciously' agreed to give me a refund but wanted me to close the case so he would receive my money before refunding me. I told him this was not going to happen, by this point I was able to escalate the case to customer services. I had an email from them this morning asking me to send them an image of the postage receipt. Thirty minutes after sending I received another email telling me they were refunding my purchase price and postage :D Happy ending at last, and a big thanks from me to everyone here who gave me advice.

[sanchi heuser]

That's great news.

Did you purchase another camera in the meantime?

[msk2193]

Make sure if you are able to leave the negative comment to do so to warn future buyers! Congrats with the result!

[kurtdriver]

Make sure if you are able to leave the negative comment to do so to warn future buyers! Congrats with the result!

You can't retract or edit feedback on ebay. A shame cause anyone can make a mistake. This guy does deserve a negative, though.

[Steven Tribe]

You CAN retract feedback and write another more "tender" feedback.

[kurtdriver]

Steven, how do you do that? There isn't anything to click on older ones.

[Starpoke]

No new camera yet I'm afraid, but I think that I'll be buying one in the flesh from Mr Cad in London or Clocktower Cameras in Brighton once I have a little more saved up.

I think I'll be leaving my negative feedback. I think if the seller wants it removed he has to send me a request to do so, which I did tell him, but he's such a plonker he probably can't work out how to do it!

[Louis Pacilla]

No new camera yet I'm afraid, but I think that I'll be buying one in the flesh from Mr Cad in London or Clocktower Cameras in Brighton once I have a little more saved up.

I think I'll be leaving my negative feedback. I think if the seller wants it removed he has to send me a request to do so, which I did tell him, but he's such a plonker he probably can't work out how to do it!

Glad to hear you received justice on your crappy eBay purchase.

Here's a thought. Why not save up your cash & when your ready. Start looking for your camera right here in the FS section.

In my experience, This can be a pretty safe place to make a purchase. Most times (Not always) the seller is an active member & friend. The price is usually fair & the description usually accurate.

You can sometimes do a trade, cash/trade or reduced price deal(can't do that on eBay) .

You can also place a WTB post in the FS section & in time find what your looking for & w/ all the above mentioned benefits . How can you beat that?

Just a thought

Peace

[sanchi heuser]

No new camera yet I'm afraid, but I think that I'll be buying one in the flesh from Mr Cad in London or Clocktower Cameras in Brighton once I have a little more saved up.

I think I'll be leaving my negative feedback. I think if the seller wants it removed he has to send me a request to do so, which I did tell him, but he's such a plonker he probably can't work out how to do it!


Hi,

the feedback you have given is appropiate and I see no reason to change it from
my point of view.

The seller wanted to play with cheap tricks and silly argumentation until the very end
(remember he wanted to persuade you to close the case with not a single penny refund in your hand).

I think a fair seller would've confessed the mistake of the missing mentioning of the
taped bellows and realized that it is absurd to name it "refurbishment".
And, that it would have been the better deal for himself
to offer you a complete refund and try to get a positive or at least a neutral feedback if he had been just a little bit intelligent.

Now he can 'refurbish' his fabulous feedback :p


For the record:
Reply by matthewkate123 (19-May-11 20:46):
he bought a camera that he didn't understand and wanted rid of it so he lied

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Steven Tribe]

Kurt, the withdrawal of feedback left by the buyer is allowed through the seller agreeing to it! That means that negative/neutral can become neutral/positive.
Look up A-Z under feedback (withdraw feedback) - there are quite a few pages to read and you must have the item number handy.

It works OK. I have been through the procedure once when a buyer paniked in I***y and rushed to -ve feedback when the postal service didn't leave a message that the item was available for collection at his nearest post office.