asking advice: I need more light for indoor portraits

[ramon]

Hello,

I am a newbie asking for help for portraits to my nephew, eight months of age who never stands still.

I shoot Tri-x 320 with 150mm lens at maximum aperture (f5.6) in the hour of maximum light in the house and this gives me a exposure between 1/15 - 1/30 seconds .... but I NEED MORE LIGHT!

I have no flash, no reflector, no strobe, and no flash meter.

I do not know anything about lighting.

What should I buy? flash? flashmeter? strobe? monolight? umbrella? reflector?

... Do you know a low cost kit for indoor portraits?

Thanks

[cyrus]

Kids don't sit still so you need to be able to shoot fast, and this means a lot of light. ALso with a lot of light you can use a smaller aperture, gain more DOF and worry less about focussing. The cheapest and quickest way for a lot of lighting indoors is to buy one of those hi-intensity halogen construction lights (http://www.amazon.com/Designers-Edge-L-14SLED-Two-Light-1000-Watt/dp/B0002YW2C8), and just bounce it off the ceiling or a wall (or both) to get even illumination all around a room. Then, chase down the kid and make them sit STILL!

[Brian C. Miller]

What sort of a living situation do you have?

My first thought is to put a reflector outside your house and reflect light in. Yes, there are many low-cost portrait kits. You can also get some work lights from a hardware store and use those.

[Vaughn]

As someone who has photograph his triplets boys since they were born, I recommend donkey downers to slow 'em down and a couple of puppy uppers to get them back up to speed once you are done...;)

Besides (or in addition to) the previously mentioned construction lamp for increasing the over-all light, I would suggest a clip-on light or two from the hardware store (always useful around the house/garage later). Position the clip-on(s) to get a catch-light in the eyes (reflection of the light source off the surface of the eyes) -- this gives a sense of life to the whole face.

[ramon]

cyrus, those halogen looks very good. Low cost and semi-portable.

Brian, I live in a flat so I cannot put the reflector outside.
The reflector option is which I liked more, because I prefer natural light.

Vaughn, the eyes reflection is a very good trick. I will try.

Thanks all!

[John Koehrer]

#5
If you have a window, you can put the bottom edge of the reflector on the window sill and tilt the top outward to catch some additional light. A simple cord or chain can be fastened to the window frame to hold the angle.
It's not likely to work if there's a breeze blowing though.

[Daniel Moore]

You may want to consider pushing Tri-X 400 one stop, that could conceivably do it. Refer to the data sheet for specifics.

[Jim Michael]

The Arri Lighting Handbook (http://www.videotexsystems.com/files/arri_lighting_handbook_english.pdf) has some lighting diagrams that you may find useful. There is a video series, The Power of Lighting (http://www.poweroflighting.com/videos.html), that would probably be worthwhile. I would view that series before spending any serious money on lighting equipment (the one on filtration is mainly useful for mixing light sources for color film/video/digital). You can do quite a bit with a shop light and a piece of foam board.

[Peter De Smidt]

I'm going to agree with Jim. Spend some time learning about lighting before you spend any money. Light, Science and Magic is a good book, but I'm sure there are others, such as the one's Jim mentioned. You might also check out Strobist.com . Kelbytraining has some good video tutorials on lighting. You can do a lot with one light source.

[Frank Petronio]

Shoot with a digital in low light and save the 4x5 for good light.

Those hot lights are fine for many situations but with running, wild children they can be dangerous. They get hot enough to cause severe burns. And even with 1/250 second, you still will have a difficult time stopping a moving child with a 4x5 and keeping focus where you want it. I've been doing this for years myself and while it can be a fun exercise, I know that the ratio of wasted film versus successful images is something like 100 to 1.

[jp]

You could use monolights (ac powered strobes) with umbrellas; you can get away with 1-2, one with an umbrella or softbox if you're minimalist. That will light them fine and stop the action because it's flash, not hot lights. As Frank has mentioned, the next problem is getting them to stay in focus. You have to understand where the kid goes in and out of focus and try to keep them in that physical space and composition, hope they provide the expressions you want in the fleeting time they occupy that space, and hope you're quick on the trigger to capture it. Medium format is easier still, as you get lots of dept of field with an 80mm lens at f16 with powerful flash and watch the focus and exposure in the viewfinder. Digital with a newer dslr is easier still with focus tracking and high iso performance and a $10 aluminum clip on work light.

Some method of keeping the child in place is handy. Some sort of seat they like being in will keep them in the plane of focus and composition; like a highchair or stroller in the arms of a person.

[Frank Petronio]

Bathtub - white, lots of light bouncing around, a bath and Mama to keep them occupied.

But you will not see many successful 4x5s of babies and toddlers, just saying.

[Mike Anderson]

Bathtub - white, lots of light bouncing around, a bath and Mama to keep them occupied.

But you will not see many successful 4x5s of babies and toddlers, just saying.

Cute kid and good pictures. Do you do that with 4x5? Hand held or tripod?

...Mike

[ramon]

Thanks for posting those links about Arri Handbook and Strobists website. I have learn a lot.

Frank, you are right, hot lights can be dangerous with children running around.

How about using flash? I have found 2 speedlights with PC connector:


YONGNUO YN-566 $77 USD (55 EUR) http://www.hkyongnuo.com/e-detail.php?ID=275

TUMAX DSS688 $127 USD (90 EUR) http://www.icorpandtumax.com/DSS688.html

And one low cost mini studio flash (monolight?):


LINKSTAR MT-120FU $77 USD (55 EUR) http://linkstarhk.silver.yp.com.hk/index_topic.php?did=3407&didpath=/3366/3368/3407&charset=eng

I prefer the portability and low cost of Yongnuo YN-566.

With umbrella/softbox maybe I could get 1-2 stops.

Can I connect the copal X sync port to the PC connector of those flashes?

[Jim Michael]

Remember that strobes lacking modeling lights means you'll be guessing much of the time what your end results will look like.

[Peter De Smidt]

Remember that strobes lacking modeling lights means you'll be guessing much of the time what your end results will look like.

You can always add a continuous light that goes into the umbrella....along with the flash.

[Two23]

buy a pair of used Alien Bees. They have modeling lights, will fire from your PC sync post. Best light for the money, and plenty of power.


Kent in SD

[Peter De Smidt]

Since Ramon is from Spain, he should probably look at brands that are common there.

Regarding using a speedlight, if you get the umbrella (or whatever your going to diffuse or bounce the flash off of close enough to your subject,) you _might_have enough power. If you can use the flash for other non-lf work, then it might be worth trying. That said, they'll be extremely limited in power, they will recylce slowly on full power, and you won't want to do to many flashes in a row or they'll start to melt.

LF portraiture often needs a lot of light, mainly because you'll want to work at a small aperture so that there's enough depth-of-field, which includes there being enough for some subject movement. You'll probably want F22-F32, unless you can immobilize what your shooting.

You might check various sources for one or two used studio lights, either monolights or a power pack.

[Tori Nelson]

Save LF for when they fall asleep, that's when they look the most angelic anyway.

[Frank Petronio]

It is hard to be encouraging because you are attempting to learn how to light and at the same time work with a subject that eludes the most experienced photographers. You would be better served to learn how to light with a more compliant subject (their Mother?) and learn how to photograph children with a faster operating camera. Maybe then you could attempt it but the kids will be grown ;-p

[cdholden]

buy a pair of used Alien Bees. They have modeling lights, will fire from your PC sync post. Best light for the money, and plenty of power.


Kent in SD
Don't forget resale value. Used Alien Bees lights on Ebay go for almost what they cost new. It's good to know you can get your money back out of them when you're ready to upgrade later.

[ramon]

I finally bought two cheap speedlighs on ebay (YN-560 and YN-460 II) and one wireless transceiver (RF-602) to make some testing with them in my digital camera.

It lacks modeling light but I prefer portability. And with a digital camera shots are costless.

I am sure Alien Bees are a very good product and better investment but shipment to europe and custom charges adds too much money. I also have to add the cost of two umbrellas and light stands, and I must first learn first the basics of lighting.

Thanks

[BennehBoy]

Having tried something similar on 8x10 I have to say that Frank is on the money - use something else!

I recall it taking about 1 hour to get my youngest son (then 3) to sit still long enough to shoot a pretty boring photo - that's all time better spent with something easier to wield (6x7 or better yet, digital).