PDA

View Full Version : 4x5 Film motordrive?



Sig
13-Jan-1999, 16:18
I seem to remember a motorized 4x5 film holder...it would hold x number of sheet s of 4x5 and load and unload them into the graflock-compatible film back in sequence...in essence, a motordri ve for 4x5 cameras...I can't recall who made it, or if it even got past the press release stage (remember it from shutterbug more a few years back.) Can anyone supply any more information?

Than

Chet Wright
13-Jan-1999, 17:38
I think you were dreaming.....but if you find one I'd sure be interested, Chet

Darron Spohn
13-Jan-1999, 18:50
This sounds suspiciously like the autofocus Speed Graphic on the Graflex.org web site a couple of years ago, posted April 1. It was a joke Sig.

Sean Billy Bob Boy yates
13-Jan-1999, 21:00
SINAR, that haven for the engineer with too much time on his hands, made a motorized 4X5 film magazine, that held 100 sheets. I cannot find the article I clipped that showed it, but it was in one of those PhotoKina product review articles they run.

Since we're talking wacky, has any one seen or used Peter Gowlands 8X10 TLR? For fifty extra credit points, name the company that made a looong lens for 35mm (and the lenses focal lenght & max ap.) that was sooo expensive that, if you bought the lens, they'd GIVE you a Volkswagon!

Rob Rothman
13-Jan-1999, 21:48
Pardon my ignorance, buy why in the world would anybody want to shoot 4x5 at motor-drive speeds? If one really needs to shoot lots of frames of fast-moving action, there are plenty of good 35mm cameras on the market. To me, working slowly and carefully, investing a lot of time, energy and thought in each sheet of film, is what makes LF so attractive. Burning film like a 35mm motor-drive freak defeats the whole reason for choosing this medium.

Ellis Vener
14-Jan-1999, 03:56
i too saw it demonstrated at PhotoExpo in NYC circa 1990 or 1991. Everybody else has the details pretty much right but I don't think that this was an official S INAR product. As for why might you need one? Catalog fashion work (remember this was 1990/1991. I am not sure if it ever really went into production.

SINAR, that haven for the engineer with too much time on his hands, made a motor ized 4X5 film magazine, that held 100 sheets. I cannot find the article I clippe d that showed it, but it was in one of those PhotoKina product review articles t hey run.

"Since we're talking wacky, has any one seen or used Peter Gowlands 8X10 TLR? " Yes.

"For fifty extra credit points, name the company that made a looong lens for 35mm (and the lenses focal lenght & max ap.) that was sooo expensive that, if yo u bought the lens, they'd GIVE you a Volkswagon!"

A Volkswagen Rabbit or Golf if I am not mistaken. The company was E.Leitz and I think the lens was an 800 f/5.6, and this was the late 1970's and the total cost of the lens was around US$20,000. But isn't this the photographic equivalent of an urban legend?

Sean Billy Bob Boy yates
15-Jan-1999, 01:21
Well, I'm not sure. If an urban legend is a myth, something that never really occured, than no, it's not, I have clippings on the Leitz lens including the advertisement that ran in U.S. photo mags. I tend to clip useful articles, how to's and the irresistably wacky. If you want, I'm willing to send photo copys.

I can't recall the gent's name that has done the mother-load of research on Urban Myths, but I can heartily reccomend his books, "The Choking Doberman" and "The Baby Train". There are others, but titles escape me at the moment.

Bob Salomon
16-Jan-1999, 19:07
The back was made by a photographer named Wolf or Fox.

Unfortunately it scratched film and was never produced as a product.

Linhof had looked at it as we do have a motorized vacumm roll back for 5" film but when it wouldn't work the interest naturally ended

doc
18-Jan-1999, 00:12
I think the author Sean was thinking of is Jan Harold Brunvand. He wrote 'the vanishing hitch hiker: American urban legends & their meanings,' that and other collections of urban legends.

europanorama
26-Jan-2016, 13:59
145631
I seem to remember a motorized 4x5 film holder...it would hold x number of sheet s of 4x5 and load and unload them into the graflock-compatible film back in sequence...in essence, a motordri ve for 4x5 cameras...I can't recall who made it, or if it even got past the press release stage (remember it from shutterbug more a few years back.) Can anyone supply any more information?

Than
I have a fax from june 12, 1995 which was sent to aperion mark w. owen-vice-president of Mission Viejo California located Aperion Inc.
i am repeating what he already wrote in a letter. Load 50 4x5 motordrive no more in production.
after i had seen it in popular photography(most probably- date cannot be seen on photocopy neither page- it could be modern photography) in part two: accessories, deardoff 8x10 and v-pan 617 on left side.
It was called: Load 50 4x5 Motordrive
image of device and a large amount of 4x5-holder as counterpart on left side.
text here:
"One of the most intriguing items at the show was the Load 50 4x5 motor drive marketed by Aperion Inc. The Load 50 is a compact motor-drive unit that can cycle up to 50 sheets of film a minute. It inserts into the camera in the same manner as standard 2-sheet film holder. Jobs that were formerly considered too cumbersome for large format, such as action or fashion, are now feasible. The Load 50 includes a remote trigger with film counter, 9V battery pack and dust cover. An optional rechargeable NiCad battery pack is also available: Info: Aperion, Inc."
NB: Check Bob Salomons message about film-scratches.
allready discussed and it was on ebay......! was 1800 usd new
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?40741-4x5-quot-motor-drive

jbenedict
26-Jan-2016, 18:46
Pardon my ignorance, buy why in the world would anybody want to shoot 4x5 at motor-drive speeds? If one really needs to shoot lots of frames of fast-moving action, there are plenty of good 35mm cameras on the market. To me, working slowly and carefully, investing a lot of time, energy and thought in each sheet of film, is what makes LF so attractive. Burning film like a 35mm motor-drive freak defeats the whole reason for choosing this medium.

Oh, Rob. You're such a killjoy.

Drew Bedo
26-Jan-2016, 19:29
What about a motorized Grafmatic?

These are days of robotics. This should not be that big of a deal.

Mark Sampson
26-Jan-2016, 19:33
...and just think of what such a device would mean to film manufacturers and photo labs. Business up by a factor of 10!

Drew Bedo
26-Jan-2016, 21:32
All joking aside . . .a powered Grafmatic should be possible.

jbenedict
26-Jan-2016, 23:40
Yes, a motorized Grafmatic is possible. Buy yourself a 3D printer and get busy... Maybe you can get a gubberment grant.

I'm not sure what types of long roll film is still available but Aerial film was available in 5" and 9" wide as well as other sizes.

A_Tabor
27-Jan-2016, 07:16
Personally I could have a fair bit of fun with a 4x5 motor drive. Not something to pull out every day and use for every last shot you take, but anyone who can't think of something fun to do with such a tool clearly has some kind of failure of imagination.

Bob Salomon
27-Jan-2016, 07:52
All joking aside . . .a powered Grafmatic should be possible.

It was. I belief it was named Wolf but was only around for a year or two 25 or so years ago. Of course there are 5" 50' aerial roll backs that pop up now and then that will fit a Technika IV or later model. If it is the motorized version of the back then a minor modification has to be done to the back to trigger the film advance on a Technika. If used on the 45 Aero Technika EL then the modification isn't needed as that body has the internal contacts that tell the back to advance the film. That is the body and back used on the Space Shuttle for their 45 imagery.

Bob Salomon
27-Jan-2016, 08:03
Pardon my ignorance, buy why in the world would anybody want to shoot 4x5 at motor-drive speeds? If one really needs to shoot lots of frames of fast-moving action, there are plenty of good 35mm cameras on the market. To me, working slowly and carefully, investing a lot of time, energy and thought in each sheet of film, is what makes LF so attractive. Burning film like a 35mm motor-drive freak defeats the whole reason for choosing this medium.

Well, maybe you are flying at 18,000 mph in orbit on the space shuttle and want to shoot 45. That's what NASA did in the Shuttle program. Or maybe you are flying aerial reconnaissance and need to shoot a designated length of ground at a designated flying speed. Or maybe you are the National Archives using 45 to copy rare, old documents and want to do hundreds of frames in the least amount of time and with the least contact with the camera. Or perhaps someone went on a climb and discovered an ancient corpse buried in the glacier for millennium and want to do photogrammetical shots of the corpse, once it is exhibited in an ice room at a museum, and they don't want a person to touch it for measurements or too even be near it too long. So they used that very same 5" Linhof roll back on a Linhof photogra metric body and got the required shots.
Or maybe you would like to shoot portraits of a large group of couples in as quick a time as possible on 45. Just pose them and focus and compose with the Linhof Technika and this back and fire away. On thin base film up to near 100 shots on 45 without reloading or re-inserting and removing a ho
Dear or a dark slide.

EdSawyer
27-Jan-2016, 08:48
Good luck finding 5" roll film these days. It would be nice....

LabRat
27-Jan-2016, 08:49
But for more practical purposes, being able to load a 50 sheet box of film into a automatic holder for a commercial shoot would have been great. If it was known that many sheets would need to be shot, and possibly more shots would be added, it would be ready... And only this holder would be needed (or some more if many more sheets of a different emulsion were needed)... As I remember this holder being demo'ed, the exposed films were in a second pile, so they went off to the lab, and the other unexposed films could be returned to the box later... (And there was a way to change the type of films fairly quickly with these...) And there was a digital counter on the way...

The down side (to me) was something (usually color chromes) was often shot on 2, 4, or more sheets, and the holders were sent to the lab with instructions to develop one side of the holder (or boxed), and hold the others for possible push/pulling, but with films in the stack loader, this would get difficult...

But if you had to shoot 50 shots on the same set-up by just changing the product, this would be great... Would save a lot of time/effort/handling with all those film holders... Less holders to clean, and lug around all day...

Steve K

jbenedict
27-Jan-2016, 11:30
It was. I belief it was named Wolf but was only around for a year or two 25 or so years ago. Of course there are 5" 50' aerial roll backs that pop up now and then that will fit a Technika IV or later model. If it is the motorized version of the back then a minor modification has to be done to the back to trigger the film advance on a Technika. If used on the 45 Aero Technika EL then the modification isn't needed as that body has the internal contacts that tell the back to advance the film. That is the body and back used on the Space Shuttle for their 45 imagery.

Is this back still available new? Not that I will be getting one any time soon. Is 5" wide film still available in any form?

Anthony Oresteen
27-Jan-2016, 13:55
The Air Forces had plenty of motor driven reconnaissance cameras that used 5" roll film and made 4x5 frames. IIRC they also had some motorized cameras that used 8" rolls and made 8"x8" negatives.

Top dog was the Hycon model 732 cameras that took 9"x18" negatives and held 1800 feet of Kodak film.

So who can develop long rolls of 5" film anymore :) ?

Bob Salomon
27-Jan-2016, 15:00
The Air Forces had plenty of motor driven reconnaissance cameras that used 5" roll film and made 4x5 frames. IIRC they also had some motorized cameras that used 8" rolls and made 8"x8" negatives.

Top dog was the Hycon model 732 cameras that took 9"x18" negatives and held 1800 feet of Kodak film.

So who can develop long rolls of 5" film anymore :) ?

As well as the 9" that we printed from vertical from the RB66 in the 60s.

Bob Salomon
27-Jan-2016, 15:01
Is this back still available new? Not that I will be getting one any time soon. Is 5" wide film still available in any form?

No, but they are not uncommon on used photo sites.

Bruce Watson
27-Jan-2016, 15:32
Oh, Rob. You're such a killjoy.

At least he wasn't waking up a 17 year old thread. That has to be some kind of record.

Oren Grad
27-Jan-2016, 17:42
Is 5" wide film still available in any form?

FP4 Plus in 5" x 50 ft rolls is available by special order from Ilford, and was included as an available item in the small-quantity special order period this past year.

Oren Grad
27-Jan-2016, 17:43
At least he wasn't waking up a 17 year old thread. That has to be some kind of record.

LF is about communicating across the ages... :)

Drew Bedo
27-Jan-2016, 18:56
The utility of a motorized back for 4x5 would be in a remote application; Wildlife photography maybe or in an underwater housing; more of a mechanized film magazine.

Sure a 50 foot roll is something to think about, but the LF roll film aerial cameras that I have seen are pretty big and weigh 40-50 pounds.

Something built around a Grafmatic could be a real-world DIY project. Maybe model airplane servos . . . an old guy way of thinking. Today the young people call it robotics.

jbenedict
30-Jan-2016, 09:17
A 50' roll of 5" wide film would give about 150 shots of 4x5 (4"x3 = 12"/1' so 50' x 3 = 150). If anyone knows what a 'Big Bertha" camera is, one of the long roll backs would be great on one. A Big Bertha is a very long lens on a Graflex 4x5 camera- about a 40" lens. Many newspapers owned them and used them for sports. Some sources say that the Big Bertha used a 5x7 Graflex. A 5x7 long roll back would be possible, too.

Here's an article about the Big Bertha and a famous shot of baseball player Don Newcomb from 1956:

https://kodakery.com/2013/06/28/big-bertha-and-don-newcombe/