Getting back into large format

[Rider]

First problem is the discontinuation of Quickload and Readyload, which was not a good thing for me. I only have 3 rather old holders of sheet film, and never had much luck using them. Loading them was a complete nightmare for me, and if light leaks didn't mess up an exposure I ended up with accidental double exposures.

Second problem is that my favorite lens is a Verito with no built-in shutter, so exposure is a crap-shoot. I do have a Speedgraphic with a built in focal plane shutter, but I have no Speedgraphic lens board that can accomodate the Verito. Anyhow, I prefer to use the Wisner.

Third problem is that my Wisner wide angle bellows leaks (right through the leather!), and it's probably a matter of time before the regular bellows starts to leak.

I still have a small stockpile of Quickload and Readyload. When that is gone, what next? What are other people like you doing these days with large format?

[BrianShaw]

I still have a small stockpile of Quickload and Readyload. When that is gone, what next? What are other people like you doing these with large format?

It sound to me likle you are a tad hobbled by your equipment. Quickloads and readyloads are convenient but they are just that... conveniences. Most people load film holders in the traditional manner. For some people these conveniences have become a crutch. Suggest that you practice loading film holders with sheet film until you are both proficient and comfortable.


As for your other commencts/concerns... you sound a tad hobbled by your equipment. Enjoyment of LF is challenging with so many, um, challenges to overcome.

[Robert Ley]

I am doing what I have always done, which is to use 4x5 holders. It is not rocket science although there were several hard earned lessons learned.

If you are having problems, you should probably get 8-10 good holders and practice loading them with some old spent film or unwanted negatives. Everyone develops their own technique for loading.

I learned early that cleanliness is imperative. Lots of compressed air and brushing and a clean dark place to load. I keep each holder in a zip lock bag that I got from one of those specialty bag companies. It stays in the bag until exposure and then put back into the bag until development. Some members prefer the anti-static bags, but I find mine work just fine for me.

There are probably as many techniques for dealing with holders as there are LF photographers and you will develop your own.

Generations of photographers have dealt with film holders for over a hundred years, you can too.

[William Whitaker]

If you want to learn how to load 4x5 film holders, borrow some 8x10 or larger holders and some old film and practice with that. Then you'll wonder what the problem ever was with 4x5. After loading 14x17, I never had any more problems with 4x5!

[Brian Ellis]

Doesn't sound like large format is for you. Why do you want to get back into it?

[Rider]

Doesn't sound like large format is for you. Why do you want to get back into it?

There is isn't a single reason--

When doing portraits, I find that I have better rapport with the subject. And somehow I am insinctively able to pull the trigger at just the right moment.

I cannot reproduce the special look I get with certain lenses. I realize that with pixel editing and enough time and skill anything is possible, but even with mainstream lenses, I get "better" results out of the camera without further post-processing.

I like the way subjects look on a larger negative or slide.

I love low-distortion lenses, the tonality of LF Provia, and the overall quality of a LF landscape shot.

Sometimes, I get tired of the fast pace and immediate feedback of DSLR. I do use 35mm film from time to time to "detox", but after a weekend shooting Large Format (maybe 5 slides total), I come back with a fresh-outlook (and 5 beautiful slides).

[Dave Jeffery]

Below is the first link to a 2 part video illustrating how to load film holders. You will need a changing tent or a darkroom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikOI1XLBxqA

I just bought 14 film holders for $60 and they are in great shape.

My next purchase is a scuba tank to use for dust removal. I have the regulators and the air nozzles already, and for $6 per fill a scuba tank will clean computers and film holders many many times, and much more effectively than canned air or a Rocket Duster. Keep your film holders in Ziplock bags.

Good Luck!

[Jack Dahlgren]

First problem is the discontinuation of Quickload and Readyload, which was not a good thing for me. I only have 3 rather old holders of sheet film, and never had much luck using them. Loading them was a complete nightmare for me, and if light leaks didn't mess up an exposure I ended up with accidental double exposures.

Practice makes perfect! Practice with the film you have wasted so far.



Second problem is that my favorite lens is a Verito with no built-in shutter, so exposure is a crap-shoot. I do have a Speedgraphic with a built in focal plane shutter, but I have no Speedgraphic lens board that can accomodate the Verito. Anyhow, I prefer to use the Wisner.

Get a lens in shutter.


Third problem is that my Wisner wide angle bellows leaks (right through the leather!), and it's probably a matter of time before the regular bellows starts to leak.

and get your bellows fixed


I still have a small stockpile of Quickload and Readyload. When that is gone, what next? What are other people like you doing these days with large format?

Film still comes in boxes as always. I've never used readyloads. I think you can manage.

If your equipment is holding you back, change your equipment. You buy new shoes once in a while don't you?

[Ed Kelsey]

Buy more Quickloads and freeze them ! Ebay Item 360363450070

5 boxes of Provia dated 7/12 for $300.

[h2oman]

Here's how I learned to load film holders:

http://photondetector.com/blog/2007/10/26/how-to-load-large-format-film-video-tutorial/

I think the guy does a very nice job. I've had light leaks, but only with my oldest holders, and I'm slowly weeding those out. I've bought a number of very nice holders at this forum for around $5-7, but they don't come up that cheap very often. Usually the good looking ones go for around $10 each, which is still quite reasonable in my mind.

[dperez]

There is a guy on youtube and he might also be a member here, Tom Johnston, who has posted some great videos on youtube. He has a very well thought out video on loading film holders.

Part one of his video on loading film holders can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/user/ZoneIII#p/u/0/ikOI1XLBxqA

Tom has some useful tips such as how to clean holders before loading film, and putting each film holder in a zip-lock bag in order to reduce exposure to dust in the field.

He also has the best videos I've seen on youtube related to tray development, and another excellent multi-part collection devoted to Jobo processors.

Although he is very modest, the videos he has posted so far are among the best how-to LF videos I have seen on the internet.

Instead of looking at the demise of QL and RL films, think about how much more versatile your film choices are using standard holders. If you shot strictly QL and RL films, now you can experiment with a larger number of films. Try the new Kodak Portra 400, or Ektar 100 for a change. Good luck with your return to LF photography.

[Gary Tarbert]

I have never used quickloads only ever boxed , got so good at loading them now i can do it with my eyes closed:D On a more serious note with all niggles with your gear and the mountain of good secondhand stuff on the market , Would you be in a position to upgrade your gear? . Cheers Gary

[Frank Petronio]

Buy a good Harrison changing tent and some good, clean modern film holders in multiples of five so you can load entire 10-sheet boxes of film in a session.

Sell the Verito and Wisner to some silly duffer on this board and you'll make mint, people are foolish ridiculous about Veritos.

Buy a 135-150 Rodenstock or Schneider in a Copal, something late from the 90s. Buy a Speed Graphic lensboard from Jim at mpex.com or eBay. Use the Speed with the focal plane shutter open.

(Or go buy my $333 Linhof monorail, which is rock solid and has full movements.)

Go make some pictures and if you like it, run with it.

[Rider]

That's a radical idea Frank. Here are the lenses I have. If I were to invest time and effort in getting one or two of them fitted for the Speedgraphic and repaired, if need be, which would you choose?

(1) Schneider 180mm f5.6. Optically very close to 150mm, but makes the Speedgraphic a little top heavy.

(2) Fuji 90mm f8.

(3) Some old Dagor--can't remember the focal length. I recently had the shutter repaired. It's an odd shutter that doesn't accept a remote release.

(4) A very compact Polaroid 135mm, that came with the Speed Graphic. You need two remote releases: one to open the aperture for viewing, one to take the picture. Shutter is not very reliable.

(5) A Verito in a barrell.

(6) TeleXenar 360mm in a nice old shutter that needs repair.

(7) A brand new Nikkor 120mm macro lens in Copal 0. Not sure it just covers 4x5 at infinity.

[John Kasaian]

Lots of good info here! The only thing I can add is that I prefer a vacume to compressed air. I have a small shopvac dedicated to photography (you'll occasionally find them on sale at home improvement stores) as I prefer to suck up the dust. If I blow it off, I find it'll come back to haunt me (sort of like those letters from the IRS!)

[Frank Petronio]

I'm a minimalist, I'd sell all those lenses and buy one good modern one ;-)

[WootSK]

To prevent accident double exposure, there is actually a silver/ white side and a black side on the top of the dark slide . To prevent double exposure, I normally have the black side facing out before taking photos and after taking photos, I will have turn over and inside the dark slide so the silver/ white side is facing out telling me that the photo is exposed. For unloaded holder, I will have the bottom of the slide where you insert the film to be open so to leave it telling me that there is no film inside. The key to using film holder is being well organized.

[Rider]

I'm a minimalist, I'd sell all those lenses and buy one good modern one ;-)

I hear you; but I'm getting eeeekbay fatigue from buying and selling.

Isn't the Schneider 180mm f5.6 considered a good modern lens (I think it's from the nineties)?

BTW, I'm not sure why I did not get notification of the great posts you guys wrote.

[Roger Cole]

Frank and the others are pretty much right. Loading film holders is frankly silly-easy. Like anything it takes a bit of practice but really only a bit. Avoiding dust is not always easy. I'm not exactly plagued by it but anyone can get dust occasionally. Expose a couple of sheets for the same price you'd have spent exposing one sheet of Quickload, if you see something really amazing on the g.g. I shoot almost entirely black and white in LF so it's not a disaster - black spots on the print can be bleached back and then spotted. You can also spot the negative resulting in a white spot on the print that can be spotted in the traditional way but tends to give a ridiculously large printed white spot unless one is VERY careful.

If one is shooting transparency film dust spots really can't be dealt with conventionally but most people doing so are using a hybrid work flow by now, and then they're trivially easy to deal with. Exercise reasonable care and don't worry about it as the Photoshop clone tool will make it go away with no real effort.

Light leaks mean you have bad holders. Get some good ones. They aren't expensive now, especially compared to what you'll spend for Quickload/Readyload film. Double exposures happen to many people at first. It's just a matter of practice and discipline of reversing the slide when you re-insert and ALWAYS using the same color code. Black for exposed is the usual but whatever you do, stick with that and it will work for you. You'll get it.

Get some better equipment, get the bellows replaced, get a lens with a shutter, go expose some film. If you shoot mainly color you might still use black and white for practice. You can get Foma rebranded as Arista from Freestyle for $30 for fifty sheets. That's cheap practice.

[Rider]

Frank and the others are pretty much right. Loading film holders is frankly silly-easy. Like anything it takes a bit of practice but really only a bit. Avoiding dust is not always easy. I'm not exactly plagued by it but anyone can get dust occasionally. Expose a couple of sheets for the same price you'd have spent exposing one sheet of Quickload, if you see something really amazing on the g.g. I shoot almost entirely black and white in LF so it's not a disaster - black spots on the print can be bleached back and then spotted. You can also spot the negative resulting in a white spot on the print that can be spotted in the traditional way but tends to give a ridiculously large printed white spot unless one is VERY careful.

If one is shooting transparency film dust spots really can't be dealt with conventionally but most people doing so are using a hybrid work flow by now, and then they're trivially easy to deal with. Exercise reasonable care and don't worry about it as the Photoshop clone tool will make it go away with no real effort.

Light leaks mean you have bad holders. Get some good ones. They aren't expensive now, especially compared to what you'll spend for Quickload/Readyload film. Double exposures happen to many people at first. It's just a matter of practice and discipline of reversing the slide when you re-insert and ALWAYS using the same color code. Black for exposed is the usual but whatever you do, stick with that and it will work for you. You'll get it.

Get some better equipment, get the bellows replaced, get a lens with a shutter, go expose some film. If you shoot mainly color you might still use black and white for practice. You can get Foma rebranded as Arista from Freestyle for $30 for fifty sheets. That's cheap practice.

Roger--You make sound so easy. Other than practicing, exercising discipline, spending time in the changing tent, carrying the changing tent around, buying and carrying a ton of holders, and then dealing with the inevitable dust on your chromes (hey that's what Photoshop is for), it's a synch! Who has time to photograph after all that?

I don't mean to be hard on you, but if Quickloads are still readily available when my stash is gone, I wouldn't go near naked sheets. To each his own, I guess!

[Roger Cole]

Roger--You make sound so easy. Other than practicing, exercising discipline, spending time in the changing tent, carrying the changing tent around, buying and carrying a ton of holders, and then dealing with the inevitable dust on your chromes (hey that's what Photoshop is for), it's a synch! Who has time to photograph after all that?

I don't mean to be hard on you, but if Quickloads are still readily available when my stash is gone, I wouldn't go near naked sheets. To each his own, I guess!

Sorry, really just trying to help - sometimes we get intimidated by something and don't realize it'd be a lot easier to just deal with it. BTDT myself in other areas.

I concede from the way you post this though that our circumstances are probably different enough to make it very different. I don't own, or need, a changing bag or tent. I load film in my darkroom. Before I got it set up here I used the guest bath with a piece of black plastic hung over the door (it has no windows.) I have eight film holders. Sixteen sheets of film is more than I ever shoot before returning to my darkroom.

I think a changing bag/tent could be a huge PITA and make not only loading itself but the dust problem much more difficult.

Assuming you have or can make a clean, dark place to load the film though, it really IS that easy. I don't mean to be hard on you either but it sounds like you've built it up in your head to something that you are making much more difficult than it is. There are difficult, trying things about LF, but in my experience they are different things. Developing film isn't as easy as with roll film - it is for me now that I have a Jobo but wasn't before. I used deep tanks and hangars, which aren't difficult but require a half gallon of solution, for example and working in total darkness. Tray development is theoretically simpler and requires a lot less solution but it is very easy to scratch the film unless you slowly do a sheet at a time. Remembering all the steps, stopping the lens back down if you've opened it for a brighter view, cocking the shutter, doing everything in the right order, it took me a while to get back into it after a dozen years away and I made some comical mistakes myself. But they aren't ones that would be any different with Quickloads or Readyloads.

You also mention "buying a ton of holders." Who needs "a ton?" I have eight. Sixteen sheets is enough for the way I shoot, and probably for most people too. I paid $20 for a pack of two off eBay the last time I bought some (a few months ago.) How many sheets do you need to carry? Why do you think you need to carry a changing bag around? Do you really need to load film in the field? You may, not saying you don't, but you may not either. If you need to carry more film in less space a couple of Grafmatics could be a good approach, though ones in good condition can be hard to find now.

Another serious suggestion: if dealing with sheet film really bothers you that much, I'd echo what Brian said and suggest maybe a different format, but if you like working with the view camera, sell the 4x5 gear you have and use the money to get the smallest one that will take the shortest lens you will use with it and get a roll film back. I have a C2 I use occasionally for color myself but don't really know much about the other available options, except that they do exist. There are dedicated medium format view cameras available that will also be smaller and lighter than a 4x5 set up, let you carry multiple film types in a few different backs, no dust problems to speak of, easy (relative) loading in the field and with modern films grain and resolution good enough for all but the very largest prints. In fact given the quality of modern films I sometimes ask myself why I bother with 4x5 myself.

[Roger Cole]

Here's you five holders which will hold ten sheets of film, for forty bucks. Though he originally listed ten for $100 (a fair price, what I paid each for my last ones) I bet he'd do ten for $80:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=759673#post759673

Best of all if you really do hate working with them you can sell them back on here for what you paid for this price. Might take a little patience or splitting them into packs of two.

[Rider]

Thanks Roger. Your approach certaily makes sense for you.

I'm trying to shed gear and come up with a small workable kit.

I realize that I don't need to cover every focal length. If I were starting over, I might choose something differently. But from what I have, I think I'll keep just the 180mm Schneider f5.6 for sharp pictures and the Verito and the Dagor for special moments. I will get nice new Speed Graphic boards for them and get them mounted properly. One day I might add a 135mm. The Wisner I'll keep, recognizing that I'm keeping it more as a interesting object than a photographic instrument. I'll save my Quickloads for trips, and use cut-sheets around town.

[Roger Cole]

There you go. THAT does make sense.

I bet if you get some holders in decent shape and practice a bit, I bet you'll wonder why you ever found them so bad. This assumes you can load them in a darkroom/bath/kitchen or other relatively clean area and not in a changing bag all the time, though.

[Rider]

Does anyone use Giottos Rocket Air Blaster to clean film or lenses?

[Ivan J. Eberle]

In the staticky deserts of the American West standard holders may be marginally better than Grafmatics, but Quickloads and Readyloads are VASTLY superior to either for dust control.

Changing bags and tents became de rigeur but it's a pity that newer and truly terrific emulsions like the new Portra and Ektar came after Readyloads were dropped. Loading holders has become part of my routine but even with care it's nigh impossible to load film holders without dust in many locales. Hybrid printing and the Photoshop cloning tool is practically a necessity without RL & QL. Besides stockpiling more I don't know what I'd be doing if straight darkroom B+W or Ilfochrome printing were needed.

[Two23]

Does anyone use Giottos Rocket Air Blaster to clean film or lenses?



I use one to blow dust off my lenses before I wipe them. I use one a lot to blow dust off negs and my Epson scanner just before scanning.


Kent in SD