17x25 Paper - Any Suggestions?

[Brian Ellis]

I'd like to start using 17x25 paper in my Epson 3800 instead of the 17x22 paper I've been using for years (mostly Moab Entrada Bright or Natural and Hahnemuhle Photo Rag). I'd prefer a matte paper but could live with a lustre/semi-gloss (no glossy).

I've found 17x25 paper made by Red River, Harman, and something called "Inkpress." Inkpress is very inexpensive but I've never heard of it before and the price makes me leery. Of course I know Harman and have used some of their papers in smaller sizes but in 17x25 it's like $4 a sheet which is more than I'd like to pay if I can find something good for less. I know Red River generally has a good reputation but I think their 17x25 is lustre and I'd like to exhaust sources for matte before switching to lustre.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[BarryS]

I like Moab Entrada too and I just buy rolls to cut down when I want a longer print. I cut down some sheets and leave them to flatten between cotton rag foam core boards with some weight on the top. The Inkjetart MC luster 17x25" is also nice--especially at less than $2/sheet.

[Bob Salomon]

Inkpress Moab and Red River all do the same thing. Buy paper from mills and package it under their name. Ink Press is a reliable a company as any of the others.

[Brian Ellis]

Thanks for the responses. I hadn't thought of roll paper because my Epson 3800 doesn't handle roll paper, never thought to cut it before it goes in the printer. Duh

[Jay Thirsty]

I tried a couple of packs of Inkpress paper a couple of years ago. Something like 1/3 of the sheets had little black bits embedded in the paper, maybe one or two on a sheet. I haven't bought any since, and don't plan to. It appeared to me that the low prices were a false economy.

[thompsonkirk]

Not sure how close to glossy you're willing to go, but I use Harman Baryta because its paper surface is the closest I can come to classic Portriga Rapid 111. I use the regular white (which is just a bit creamy) for color, & Warmtone for BW.

You do, however, have to buy the 17x25 sheets, rather than cut rolls into sheets. Many who've tried, including myself & the tech guy at Shades of Paper, have had trouble printing on Harman Baryta in rolls. It's too stiff & tightly curled, producing head strikes & also ripples in the surface, where ink is more/less dense.

Kirk

[rjphil]

I'll give another vote for the Harman Gloss Baryta in 17x25 sheets. It's my paper of choice for "fine printing", and can be cut to 12.5x17 for 11x14 prints. The rolls, as said above, are too curled for cutting down easily. I use it for b/w printing as well, using the Epson advanced b/w mode, and have been very pleased with the results.

[thompsonkirk]

BTW, it comes in 17x22 sheets, too; probably best for most MF/LF printing. My reason for 17x25 is that you can also use it to print 15x22.5 from full-frame 35mm files.

Kirk

[D. Bryant]

Not sure how close to glossy you're willing to go, but I use Harman Baryta because its paper surface is the closest I can come to classic Portriga Rapid 111. I use the regular white (which is just a bit creamy) for color, & Warmtone for BW.

You do, however, have to buy the 17x25 sheets, rather than cut rolls into sheets. Many who've tried, including myself & the tech guy at Shades of Paper, have had trouble printing on Harman Baryta in rolls. It's too stiff & tightly curled, producing head strikes & also ripples in the surface, where ink is more/less dense.

Kirk

Are you talking about Harmon Fiber Gloss AL? If so this paper has been discontinued.

http://www.harman-inkjet.com/products/product.asp?n=67&t=Inkjet+Baryta+Photo+Paper

Don Bryant

[JC Kuba]

Are you talking about Harmon Fiber Gloss AL? If so this paper has been discontinued.

http://www.harman-inkjet.com/products/product.asp?n=67&t=Inkjet+Baryta+Photo+Paper

Don Bryant

It was reincarnated as Harman Gloss Baryta 320gsm by Hahnemuhle

http://harman.hahnemuehle.com/media/harman_glossbaryta.pdf

- JC

[Kirk Gittings]

Its not really the same paper. Many people like myself tested the two and came to the that conclusion. I didn't like the Hahnemuhle version. That left me hanging and in search of a new paper. As a result I switched to Canson Platine Fiber Rag, which IMO is better than either one.

[ignatiusjk]

Try buying a 17" roll of Ilford Gold Fibre then you can cut it whatever lenth you want.

[D. Bryant]

It was reincarnated as Harman Gloss Baryta 320gsm by Hahnemuhle

http://harman.hahnemuehle.com/media/harman_glossbaryta.pdf

- JC

That's not the same paper at all.

[thompsonkirk]

Once you get over the trauma of finding it a bit different, it's quite a nice paper.

Their profiles & paper setting recommendations (for Canon WF) are awful, but I have a new custom profile & really like the results for both BW & color. My impression is that the paper base is a bit creamier in tone, & its surface looks just a little less glossy. With Canon Lucia inks (v. 2) there's never any gloss differential. I wish they made 24x30 sheets (see my curses above re: un-flatten-able rolls).

And above all, its darkroom-like smell is so nostalgic.

Kirk

[Tyler Boley]

...I use Harman Baryta because its paper surface is the closest I can come to classic Portriga Rapid 111. I use the regular white (which is just a bit creamy) for color, & Warmtone for BW. ...
Kirk

Kirk I'm curious about your impressions of the Harman. When I tested it the "regular" it used a lot of brighteners which looked, and measured, quite blue.
Since many of us remark about our impressions it's easy to expect differing descriptions of "white". But the reason I'm posting is.. I'm wondering if, when the product was taken over by Hahnemuhle, they changed the base hue and/or took out some OBAs, hence your impression as creamy. If so I'd try it again. I am familiar with the warm tone version, which to me is much closer to Portriga base hue.
So, anyone know if there was a change in the product?
Thanks,
Tyler

[rdenney]

...As a result I switched to Canson Platine Fiber Rag, which IMO is better than either one.

Except that it doesn't seem to come in 17x25.

This is an issue for me, too. Sometimes, I want to print from 6x9 and use the full width of the 3800.

Rick "also considering 17x25 options" Denney

[thompsonkirk]

Hi Tyler,

I'm not a qualified Harman historian, so I can't say for sure. When Harman FBAl Glossy came out, I didn't use it because it looked too bright. I didn't save the samples, so I can't compare to the current paper. I chose to use Warmtone instead; it was 'Portriga-like' for sure. I use the current Warmtone for BW. I have an old Zone System step-wedge printed on Portriga (with dose of archival selenium toner), & I get results that match it pretty well on the current WT if I print in RGB & add .01 R in Levels.

Lately, however, I've been using the Hahnemuhle version of Gloss Baryta for scanned color negs, & it doesn't seem so OB-ish to me. Definitely less OBs than Epson Exhibition Fiber. I'm using Glossy Baryta because you can't print color very well on Warmtone. Hahnemuhle says it's meant to be BW paper, & the substrate skews the colors a bit. Glossy Bayta looks better.

This doesn't really answer your question, so I hope you'll give it a try & report what you see.

Kirk T.

[Photomagica]

I second the opinions about being cautious in the use of cut down roll paper in the Epson 38xx. The Epson is subject to head strikes if the paper isn't flat enough, and/or it seems if the room humidity isn't high enough. I have used cut down roll paper with success, but it was not a very curly paper to begin with. Some effort at flattening may be required for the current crop of baryta fibre papers.
I have a friend who uses Inkpress in his 3800 with excellent results. I would not dismiss this paper because of one bad batch. I've had bad batches of Museo and Hahnemuhle. The supplier exchanged the goods and all was well.
Bill Peters

[dwenson]

How true is it that 17x25 IMO is quite flexible? Can it allow me to print pictures with a range of aspect ratios? like from portrait to landscape example : 16x20(4:5) to 16x24(2:3)?? 17x22 paper is really very popular because almost all major manufacturers offers it..

[Peter Mounier]

I've been using the Inkpress papers for many years, although I print on the warm tone rag fine art paper rather than photo papers. I've been totally happy with their quality and paper.
From the inkpress website ...
Inkpress Rag is manufactured at Monadnock Paper Mill- the most experienced paper mill in the country- they have been manufacturing paper since 1819. Monadnock is one of a very few prime manufacturers – the substrate and coatings are produced in-house. This is the utmost base for Inkpress Rag's unquestionable consistency. To learn more about Monadnock ... www.mpm.com.

Peter

[Jim Andrada]

Ability to use rolls was one reason I got the 4880. I've noticed that most of the curl seems to be near the ends of the print so maybe cutting the roll a few inches longer would minimize the curl issues in the print area. At the expense of using more paper of course. Just a thought.

+1 for the Breathing Color papers, by the way.

[dwenson]

Breathing Color papers are really cheap, the ratio of cost and quality on their website is promising. Right now i am looking for a quality inkjet paper. just to print a portfolio of black & white work. i have tried Museo silver rag which really impressed me.. i have not tried a lot of papers though..

inkjet printer ink (http://www.inkjetsuperstore.com/)