Bellows Care Tips?

[yeknom02]

Hi everyone - I've tried looking for general tips for caring for my bellows, which look old (well, at least in my opinion they do) but are not yet damaged. Most of what I've come across has been various repair methods. I'd like to avoid needing to read those posts by taking good care of my bellows.

I have a Toyo D45M monorail camera, and I'm not really sure what the material is. I was wondering if people could share their experiences in caring for (and storing) their bellows. I have found that I'm most comfortable transporting my monorail in a backpack (or rucksack if you're European), and I'd hate to cause damage to the bellows by storing and transporting the camera.

[Leigh]

I'd be very reluctant to put anything on a bellows that might soak in.

Bellows are multi-layer constructs held together by adhesive.

Anything that soaks in could dissolve the adhesive and cause the layers to separate.

- Leigh

[IanMazursky]

I have sort of the same question. I had Turner Bellows make me new ones for my 12x20 and 5x7 Korona.
They’re fabric and i was wondering whats the best way to care for them for the long term?
Also is it better to leave them folded closed (korona’s are folding cameras) or open/extended?
Thanks

[Leigh]

Why don't you ask Turner Bellows, and let us know what they say?

- Leigh

[TheDeardorffGuy]

Fold or unfolded when stored? That is my most asked question. On Deardorffs ( the cameras I know best) there were over 20 different OUTER fabrics/coverings. Thats including 6 different naugahydes. Many cameras used in Chicago catalog houses never folded their cameras. When these cameras came up for auction I was asked by a major NYC dealer to look these cameras over. Some bellows were so stiff they would not fold at all. But they had no pinholes. Cameras that were folded had pinholes. Why?
The fabric is in tension at the corners. Watch it when you fold it up? The material stretches and micro tears. Got it? So what do you do? My Deardorffs I use I open them and display then a month on, 2 months folded

Fabrics now a days are a bit more flexible and in the past 10 years I've yet to replace any bellows we've made.

[TheDeardorffGuy]

Hi everyone - I've tried looking for general tips for caring for my bellows, which look old (well, at least in my opinion they do) but are not yet damaged. Most of what I've come across has been various repair methods. I'd like to avoid needing to read those posts by taking good care of my bellows.

I have a Toyo D45M monorail camera, and I'm not really sure what the material is. I was wondering if people could share their experiences in caring for (and storing) their bellows. I have found that I'm most comfortable transporting my monorail in a backpack (or rucksack if you're European), and I'd hate to cause damage to the bellows by storing and transporting the camera.

Gosh...I forgot even with the can right in front of me. LEMON PLEDGE Cleans any synthetic material without damage.
Ken

[IanMazursky]

Why don't you ask Turner Bellows, and let us know what they say?
- Leigh

I spoke with Turner but they only said keep it dry and clean.
They had no thoughts on open or closed or a way to clean it. Kinda what i thought they would say.
But the 2 bellows they made me are great and their prices are pretty good too.

The tip from TheDeardorffGuy is a great idea, 2 months open 2 closed.
Thanks!

[GPS]

I spoke with Turner but they only said keep it dry and clean.
They had no thoughts on open or closed or a way to clean it. Kinda what i thought they would say.
But the 2 bellows they made me are great and their prices are pretty good too.

The tip from TheDeardorffGuy is a great idea, 2 months open 2 closed.
Thanks!

Now think of it again - is is really a great idea? If the constantly open bellows is noxious to it, then having it open for 2 months is a pretty bad idea. If the opposite - the bellows closed - is noxious for the bellows, then keeping it closed for 2 months is a bad idea too.

The open/closed state has different effect on different materials used for bellows. Leather can dry out more easily if the bellows is open in a dry atmosphere. On the other hand, leather can suffer more, if the bellows is closed in a humid atmosphere. Synthetic materials can be (or not, there are bellows made of UV resistant materials!) sensitive to UV (bad to leave them open in sunlight)...
The "great idea" you are jubilating over is technically an idea of somebody who has - no idea about it...:)

[IanMazursky]

My bellows are fabric, not leather. They will not dry out or crack in the same way that leather does.
Turner only makes fabric bellows. The 2 open 2 closed or something along those lines is a good idea for them.
I have noticed when i don’t use them for a long time, they’re stiffer not a lot but i do notice.
At least opening and closing them for a little time will exercise them even if i cant take them out for a walk :D
Leaving them stagnant seems like a good way to ensure a short life.
The reason i asked all of this, i looked at my 12x20 bellows when the camera was folded and it looked cramped and crammed in there.
So i asked whats the best way to keep them from deteriorating.

[GPS]

...
Turner only makes fabric bellows. The 2 open 2 closed or something along those lines is a good idea for them.
I have noticed when i don’t use them for a long time, they’re stiffer not a lot but i do notice.
At least opening and closing them for a little time will exercise them even if i cant take them out for a walk :D
...
2/2 is a good idea for them? Can you explain why (as I explained why not)?
If using them (closing/opening) is good (which I agree with) then do you think that opening and closing them once in 2 months is really any meaningful exercise for them?
The 2/2 idea is still an idea of somebody who has no clear technical idea about it at all. With the same logic you could proclaim a 1/1 regime or even 1 1/2 - 1 1/2 or 2 weeks on 2 weeks... oh, so many good ideas..! :)

[TheDeardorffGuy]

Now think of it again - is is really a great idea? If the constantly open bellows is noxious to it, then having it open for 2 months is a pretty bad idea. If the opposite - the bellows closed - is noxious for the bellows, then keeping it closed for 2 months is a bad idea too.

The open/closed state has different effect on different materials used for bellows. Leather can dry out more easily if the bellows is open in a dry atmosphere. On the other hand, leather can suffer more, if the bellows is closed in a humid atmosphere. Synthetic materials can be (or not, there are bellows made of UV resistant materials!) sensitive to UV (bad to leave them open in sunlight)...
The "great idea" you are jubilating over is technically an idea of somebody who has - no idea about it...:)

Ian, I have tested nearly 100 different synthetics fabric/materials to be used for bellows. The tests are UV proof?, IR proof? Oxidation of the materials, Reaction and long term reaction to nearly 20 different glues, Reaction of the glues to the ribs and inner linings and outers. Flexibility after a month to 24 months with those glues and atmospheres. I've worked with fabric coaters to develop a material that will last for years. I really have no idea what I'm talking about at all.

[IanMazursky]

Hi Ken,
I agree with you, i asked this question because as i mentioned i don’t always take the cameras out everyday.
Some can sit for months or more without use, work always seems to get in the way.
The original bellows from my 12x20 Korona were ruined because they sat closed for many many years.
The 5x7 Korona was the opposite, they stayed open for 20+ years in the sun.
I had to have Turner make a new set for both, i think they’re better then the leather originals.

I don’t like the camera sitting closed for months on end and possibly ruining the corners that way.
I like the 2/2 concept. Its easy enough for me to remember (well my calendar can remember for me) and then do it.
The best part, my family can get to see them (not near a window) instead of them sitting on a shelf or in a bag.
To me it like exercising the shutter. If you let them sit for to long, they can gum up, slow down or cease.

Thanks again.
Ian

[GPS]

...
I don’t like the camera sitting closed for months on end and possibly ruining the corners that way.
I like the 2/2 concept. Its easy enough for me to remember (well my calendar can remember for me) and then do it.
...
Thanks again.
Ian

Ian, you still have it all wrong. First of all, TheDeardorffGuy did not say he recommends 2/2 concept. Read it once again - he said 1 month open/2months closed!

Secondly, take to your senses and see that if you like the 2/2 months concept then exactly the same effect you get with opening/closing the bellows each second week, or once in 10 days or each day alternatively or just 3/3 months etc. The time of the opened/closed bellows is the same in all of these scenarios...

Ask TheDeardorffGuy - he thinks he understands that so much that he didn't even understand how you misunderstood him in his recommendation... ;)

[GPS]

...
The material stretches and micro tears. Got it? So what do you do? My Deardorffs I use I open them and display then a month on, 2 months folded
...


...

The tip from TheDeardorffGuy is a great idea, 2 months open 2 closed.
Thanks!


...
I've worked with fabric coaters to develop a material that will last for years. I really have no idea what I'm talking about at all.

Maybe, just maybe, you have no idea about what Ian is talking about and Ian has no idea about what you're talking about...:)

[TheDeardorffGuy]

Maybe, just maybe, you have no idea about what Ian is talking about and Ian has no idea about what you're talking about...:)

Ian and I have had a nice uninterrupted private conversation about bellows material and use. Thanks for all your input.

[Ari]

Fwiw, I keep the bellows closed on the field camera, and compressed as much as possible on the monorail (but not too tight).
But no matter what, bellows replacement is an occasional but necessary expense.

[GPS]

Ian and I have had a nice uninterrupted private conversation about bellows material and use. Thanks for all your input.

You're welcome.

[GPS]

Fwiw, I keep the bellows closed on the field camera, and compressed as much as possible on the monorail (but not too tight).
But no matter what, bellows replacement is an occasional but necessary expense.

In doing so, you do well. The field cameras are constructed to be in the closed shape when not taking pictures. Many old Graphics have still their bellows intact, if the cameras were not misused, even after 50 or more years.