mido filmholders

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Hello,

is anybody out there using MIDO filmholders.

If yes, why? How do they handle? Any shortcomings? How do they handle in the field ( reloading in a changing bag or tent)?

If no, why not anymore?

And what is a realistic price to pay for them?


Thanks in advance,

Heinrich

[Drew Wiley]

With the demise of Quickload and Readyload packets, I'm taking a fresh look at my
old Mido holders. There are two types of them. The first type was basically a vinyl sleeve which I never could make work. The type II resembles an ordinary filmholder
but is thinner, and uses a clamshell type adapter to make up the thickness difference. This system weighs about 30% less than ordinary holders and is distinctly more compact. Loading is straightforward, even in a changing tent, as long
as you've got a flat film surface below. A flat slab of rock in the shade works well.
I used my Mido II holders on one backpack trip into the high Sierra each year for
the last two years. I got a few minor light leaks in the corner of several images. I
don't know if this is a technique issue or if specific holder are more prone to leak.
I'll have to do some more testing. I've got two clamshells and twelve actual holders.

[Renato Tonelli]

I have purchased a set for the same reasons Drew Wiley has stated. I think I have Type II ... For a set of six holders + the adapter, i have paid $130.00 Have not field-tested them yet. I plan on using them on longer hikes. As far as loading and unloading them in a changing bag: you would need a flat surface to hold them in place as the holders are flexible and would otherwise be too flimsy to load. I foresee lots of practice sessions...

They are rare and therefore expensive. There is a brand new set that someone from Osaka, Japan is selling. I remember seeing a post that claimed they were made for 5x7 film as well, which I am lusting for, but have never seen any for sale.

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Thank you guys for writing me your experiences. But I'm surprised, I mean, the MIDO II system looks almost prefect to me and i don't understand nobody using it.

[Doremus Scudder]

I have Mido I holders. I used to use them a lot, now less. However, for backpacking they are really convenient and cut down on the weight a lot. They are vinyl sleeves that hold two sheets of film and fit in a clamshell holder (similar to the old 2-sheet Readyloads).

They do have some issues. First, they are a PITA to load; really troublesome. Nevertheless, after some wrestling, one can get them loaded. Second, they tend to leak light at the edges, through the vinyl. I fixed the last problem by using thin metal-foil tape on the edges of the sleeves. One has to be careful when pulling the sleeve when taking an exposure, but no more so than with Readyloads. The extended sleeves also blow about in the wind a lot, again, just like Readyloads. Other that the occasional light leak, I have had good results using Mido holders in the field. The loading headache is worth the weight reduction when I'm out for a week or so backpacking.

For day hikes and short overnighters, however, I simply use regular holders. I work slowly and usually don't make more than 6-8 exposures a day, so I can justify carrying 10 regular holders with me. Still, the Midos would weigh less.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

[gari beet]

I have a large set, maybe 30 sleeves and 2 holders, from 2 sales on here in fact. They are a PITA to load initially, though I didn't find it any more troublesome than learning to load DDs. There are 2 different sorts, as has been mentioned here and the Mido II is certainly easier to load than the mkI. I use holders when close to the car etc, but the Midos are so light that I can carry 20-30 sheets for the same weight as half a dozen holders when on the hill or a long hike to a beach/woodland.
I am happy to post some pics if you want to see some(assuming you haven't already) before buying. For the right price, and with some patience to learn to load 'em, I think they are worth having personally.

Gari

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Hello Gari, yes please post some pictures, as I'm really interested in these MIDO II holders. Searching in the archives and google, I didn't find a lot of pictures. As the holders are quite exotic, I would like to evaluate as much and close as possible before committing to buy.

[gari beet]

I have included a few images of the two different sleeves, as can be seen they load differently. The one on the right loads much like a standard holder, the film being slid in from the bottom, while the one on the left is loaded by putting the bottom edge in the "sleeve" and then slipping in the top edge in the same way. The first picture shows a sheet of film partly loaded. I found it just require a little practice to get the hang of loading the ones on the left, and it is easier in a darkroom/cupboard etc in that it is easier with some spare height.
Gari

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Thanks Gari, how about film flatness?

[Ash]

Wouldn't mind owning a 5x7 version

[Drew Wiley]

With my 4x5 Mido II holders film plane flatness is just like a regular holder and just fine. However, with the older sleeve-style Mido holders I'd expect this to be a bit of a
problem.

[gari beet]

I haven't noticed a difference between the ones I have to be honest. Both seem fine.
Gari

[Michael Jones]

They have not been made in years (probably since the late 90s). When production of the 8x10 holder began, there were several time (and film) consuming quality control issues. I had all 16 of my 8x10 slides replaced twice. The film sleeves were repaired at about the same pace. After a protracted time, they had about the same reliability of Readyloads. While Mr. Mido stood behind his holders, it seemed those costs, and his health at that time, lead to the demise of the holders and the company
Each film holder was literally hand made with material from the aerospace industry.

When they worked, they were a joy. You could carry 16 sheets of film in the space of two conventional 8x10 holders. When they leaked (and you did not know until you developed the film), they were a costly nightmare.

I saw a post several years ago from the designer/builder that he was considering production again, but I never saw a follow-up.

Mike

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Wow, interesting.

Thanks everybody.

I will start hunting for the MIDO II system. Any idea what is a good price for this?

[StoneNYC]

Old thread re-boot.

I just got 10 holders sent to me by a kind lady who heard I was a hiker/camper and sent them to me. However, she just sent the film holders, does this mean they can't be used without the actual shell holder? Can a ready load double as a holder for this? Thanks anyone!

[Drew Bedo]

I think there isa a market niche for a similar product . . .or even a plastic Grafmatic.


Hint to the folks at Wanderlust.

[Nathan Potter]

These Mido I vinyl sleeves look interesting. It's not obvious how they work though. It appears that the film is slid in from one end while loading; then a paper slide is pulled out, much like a Ready load. I can envision this but two question arise. The end where the film is inserted while loading needs to be light tight before and after exposure - how is this done? Second when the movable sleeve part is pulled out for film exposure, how is the film held in place while removing the sleeve part? Readyloads use a metal clamp/clip to hold the film and the paper backing while removing the film emulsion side sheet.

It almost seems an equivalent thing may not be so difficult to design and make; even if in limited quantity.

While I have a freezer packed with Quickloads I also have raw specialty film that would be nice to use with a paper or vinyl type holder.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[StoneNYC]

These Mido I vinyl sleeves look interesting. It's not obvious how they work though. It appears that the film is slid in from one end while loading; then a paper slide is pulled out, much like a Ready load. I can envision this but two question arise. The end where the film is inserted while loading needs to be light tight before and after exposure - how is this done? Second when the movable sleeve part is pulled out for film exposure, how is the film held in place while removing the sleeve part? Readyloads use a metal clamp/clip to hold the film and the paper backing while removing the film emulsion side sheet.

It almost seems an equivalent thing may not be so difficult to design and make; even if in limited quantity.

While I have a freezer packed with Quickloads I also have raw specialty film that would be nice to use with a paper or vinyl type holder.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

If it works like ready loads then I'll try using the ready load holder in the morning.

The film is held by an interior vinyl sleeve, and the exterior vinyl sleeve slides over it.

I'll give it a try, since I never used ready loads before, I wasn't sure how they worked.

[Renato Tonelli]

I'll check and see if the MIDO holder works in other clamshells as well. I am having light-leak issues with the MIDO clamshell I have. At first I thought it was the sleeves but a thorough re-testing eliminated them as the culprit; I think it's the way my MIDO clamshell sits in the camera (Linhof Tech). At this point I am a little tired of going through boxes of film in order to test the system.

I recently contacted the inventor of the holder through e-bay and he responded that he was re-tooling and to check back with him in a few weeks...
I would like to have it become a reliable system; the weight savings is substantial when you are going on a difficult hike.

[HeinrichVoelkel]

I recently contacted the inventor of the holder through e-bay and he responded that he was re-tooling and to check back with him in a few weeks...

Does this mean, he will be making MIDO holders again, like new ones?

[StoneNYC]

I'll check and see if the MIDO holder works in other clamshells as well. I am having light-leak issues with the MIDO clamshell I have. At first I thought it was the sleeves but a thorough re-testing eliminated them as the culprit; I think it's the way my MIDO clamshell sits in the camera (Linhof Tech). At this point I am a little tired of going through boxes of film in order to test the system.

I recently contacted the inventor of the holder through e-bay and he responded that he was re-tooling and to check back with him in a few weeks...
I would like to have it become a reliable system; the weight savings is substantial when you are going on a difficult hike.

The inventor is dead as far as I understood, the person on eBay is someone else.. But it's nice that someone is working on it.

[HeinrichVoelkel]

The inventor is dead as far as I understood, the person on eBay is someone else.. But it's nice that someone is working on it.

So does this mean the "someone else" plans a rerelease of the MIDO system?

[StoneNYC]

Nope, sorry to say, the MIDO are wider than the ready load or Polaroid holders... Sorry... Sucks. I really can't use this without a clamshell...

[Sal Santamaura]

...I recently contacted the inventor of the holder through e-bay and he responded that he was re-tooling and to check back with him in a few weeks...


Does this mean, he will be making MIDO holders again, like new ones?


The inventor is dead as far as I understood, the person on eBay is someone else...


So does this mean the "someone else" plans a rerelease of the MIDO system?Shin has sung this song before. It's getting old. Everything is in the archive here; searching works:


http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?19771-Mido-Film-Holders-Reborn

[tgtaylor]

Personally I never can't understand why anyone would think that packing Readyloads is lighter and less bulky that sheet film in holders. For years I shot Readyloads exclusively - even taking them on week long backpacks in the Sierra Nevada. Two boxes (40 Readyloads) weighed a ton and took up way too much room in my Gregory Reality which I used back then for week long trips. Then I discovered sheet film. Not only did a 50 or 100 sheet box weigh far less than 2 boxes of ready loads, but the total weight and bulk were also far less. All you need for long trips are 5 holders in a F64 case which attaches to the outside of your pack and a Harrison Pup tent which weighs practically nothing and also attaches to the outside of the pack. When its time to reload, just find a level spot, wash your hands, and reload placing the exposed in an empty box. What could possibly be lighter and less bulkier that that?

Thomas

[StoneNYC]

Personally I never can't understand why anyone would think that packing Readyloads is lighter and less bulky that sheet film in holders. For years I shot Readyloads exclusively - even taking them on week long backpacks in the Sierra Nevada. Two boxes (40 Readyloads) weighed a ton and took up way too much room in my Gregory Reality which I used back then for week long trips. Then I discovered sheet film. Not only did a 50 or 100 sheet box weigh far less than 2 boxes of ready loads, but the total weight and bulk were also far less. All you need for long trips are 5 holders in a F64 case which attaches to the outside of your pack and a Harrison Pup tent which weighs practically nothing and also attaches to the outside of the pack. When its time to reload, just find a level spot, wash your hands, and reload placing the exposed in an empty box. What could possibly be lighter and less bulkier that that?

Thomas

These MIDO holders are super light, they don't have any metal (which I'm to understand the ready load/quick loads had?) but yes I can imagine them being heavier if you load a ton of them.

I like grafmatics, I weighed one vs 3 standard fidelity holders and the grafmatic was lighter by a bit, so bringing 2-3 grafmatic holders and 2-3 boxes of film (depending on what you shoot) and you're in business!

Wish they had made 8x10 grafmatics, (holding 5 sheets not 6) that would have been GOLD.

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Shin has sung this song before. It's getting old. Everything is in the archive here; searching works:


http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?19771-Mido-Film-Holders-Reborn

Hey Sal, great find, but your info is old ( in internet times it is stone age) I was talking about 2014, now, today.

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Personally I never can't understand why anyone would think that packing Readyloads is lighter and less bulky that sheet film in holders. What could possibly be lighter and less bulkier that that?

Thomas

Answer: If you travel, let's say 14 days and shoot about 120 sheets of film, and you're able to mark every single sheet of film with the info "what, when, why, how" Readyload and Quickload make a lot of sense.
It's not only about the weight!!!!

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Answer: I you travel, let's say 14 days and shoot about 120 sheets of film, and you're able to mark every single sheet of film with the info "what, when, why, how" Readyload and Quickload make a lot of sense.
It's not only about the weight!!!!

Never used the MIDOS, but they look like what I need, smartism ( made the word up) and weight wise.

[Sal Santamaura]

Shin has sung this song before. It's getting old. Everything is in the archive here; searching works:


http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?19771-Mido-Film-Holders-Reborn


Hey Sal, great find, but your info is old ( in internet times it is stone age) I was talking about 2014, now, today.You miss my point. He's been promising this since "the stone age." Apparently still today. Talk, talk, talk. No action. Don't hold your breath waiting for it to actually happen. :D:D

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Okay, Sal, now I got it. Thanks.

But isn't Shin dead? So, "the other guy" will he do it?

[Sal Santamaura]

...isn't Shin dead? So, "the other guy" will he do it?See post #12 in the 2006 thread I linked to above. I don't think there's ever been any "other guy."

[Drew Wiley]

Stone... you still chimed in? The sleeve system was different from the Mido II which uses a clamshell to make up the thickness difference with the holders. I never
got accustomed to the earlier sleeve version and sold it off. I've had so-so results with the II system. Light leaks at the corners are a risk.

[StoneNYC]

Stone... you still chimed in? The sleeve system was different from the Mido II which uses a clamshell to make up the thickness difference with the holders. I never
got accustomed to the earlier sleeve version and sold it off. I've had so-so results with the II system. Light leaks at the corners are a risk.

I assume since mine doesn't say "Mark II" anywhere that it's the original... But all I have are skinny double sided vinyl sleeves... They don't fit in any ready load, and from what I can tell need a secondary shell/holder... So basically are useless... The very nice person who sent them to me free thought it would be helpful since I hike and camp, but said she looked for the clamshell part and gave up but sent the holders anyway.

[Drew Wiley]

There was a slide-in adapter for the original Mido sleeve system, but it was not a clamshell like the Mido II design. I should have clarified that.

[StoneNYC]

There was a slide-in adapter for the original Mido sleeve system, but it was not a clamshell like the Mido II design. I should have clarified that.

Oh, what's the difference? I guess I don't understand what "clamshell" means, I interpreted any holder like "ready load/quick load/P-45/pack film adapter" as a clamshell

[HeinrichVoelkel]

See post #12 in the 2006 thread I linked to above. I don't think there's ever been any "other guy."

But Renato contacted him recently, so either he did speak to the dead Shin or there is "another guy".

[Sal Santamaura]

But Renato contacted him recently, so either he did speak to the dead Shin or there is "another guy".There's no evidence to suggest that reports of Shin's death were true in 2006 or are true now. Still no entry for him in the US Social Security Death Index.

[Sal Santamaura]

There was a slide-in adapter for the original Mido sleeve system, but it was not a clamshell like the Mido II design. I should have clarified that.


Oh, what's the difference? I guess I don't understand what "clamshell" means, I interpreted any holder like "ready load/quick load/P-45/pack film adapter" as a clamshell

Mido I (vinyl sleeves) went into a holder which looks somewhat similar to QuickLoad/ReadyLoad holders, but used a different mechanism and offered no compatibility with either of them. The sleeves are a pain to load and this system was prone to light leaks.

Mido II (clamshell system) used an outer adapter that opened like a clam, i.e. hinged on one edge, and accepted the thin, conventionally-loaded holders. Then one closed the clamshell and inserted the combined units into a camera back. The clamshell permitted individual holders to be thin and light, but made up for their dimensional shortfall compared to what camera backs are designed to accept, i.e. regular film holders. An image of the clamshell system can be seen here:


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-L177HfMzRLU/UCSpTVn7hkI/AAAAAAAAFno/ZnMdzjGBzz4/s1600/Mido_Holder.jpg

While still requiring careful handling to avoid light leaks, this system was much better in that regard than Mido I.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I have and use 8x10" Mido II's. They're fiddly compared to conventional filmholders, but if you shoot large format, you're probably okay with fiddly things, and it's great to be able to bring more sheets of film into the field.

[Renato Tonelli]

My contact was through his eBay account - I have never spoken to him. I replied to his message asking for his regular e-mail address but he did not replied to it. I've given up, at least for now.

Stone- give up your holders - you can't use them anyway. I might be interested...;)

[HeinrichVoelkel]

I give up as well, no Mido for me. Back to the fidelity of lisco.

Thank you all for the input...

[Roger Hesketh]

A solution that I have found that occasionally works for me as a lightweight alternative to regular film holders is to use a Mackenzie Wishart Daylight Slide. The system goes back to the early years of the 20th Century and utilizes thin metal or vinyl film envelopes which are placed one at a time into the Darkslide enclosure.Their would appear to be two different types with the metal ones each envelope has it's own rigid darkslide. So a dark slide on the holder is not needed. With the vinyl ones the dark slide incorporated into the holder when withrawn takes the darkslide of the vinyl envelope with it. The holder provides the rigidity that the envelopes lack. The envelopes are very very light. On our kitchen scales the metal ones are approx 30g . The vinyl ones are much less.The quarter plate darkslide holder itself weighs about 100 grams.

I also have recently acquired but not yet used a 4x5 Mackenzie Wishart Darkslide with vinyl envelopes. It and 12 envelopes weighs 500g compared to a 12 shot 4x5 Graflex Bag Mag which weighs 700g loaded. Unfortunately the envelopes are difficult but not impossible to find, They might be worth the trouble of hunting for or even making if you are seriously into Ultralight Large Format work. 3D printer maybe? The Daylight slides themselves are really quite common and their is generally at least one advertised on Ebay at anyone time.

Another heavier option is to use a Graflex Bag Mag as a lighter alternative to a Grafmatic. A Bag Mag and 12 loaded septums being lighter than two Grafmatic holders. I have a Quarter plate Sanderson Field Camera which I use with a Mackenzie Wishart Darkslide and metal holders. I have also made another back for it by adapting a 3x4 Graflex back to fit it. This allows me to use Bagmags and Graflex roll film holders on it.

The Sanderson with the darkslide with 11 metal envelopes and a lightweight changing bag which does double duty as a dark cloth weighs in at under 2 kg.

110802

1/4 Plate Sanderson with Mackenze Wishart Daylight slide with metal film envelopes fitted.

The Darkslides for Vinyl envelopes are marked Patent A and those for the thin metal envelopes are marked Patent B. The ones I am calling Vinyl ones I am quite sure are not made of Vinyl but I am calling them that for convenience and because they would appear to be made of a material with similar properties.

Hope this is of some help to someone

Roger

[HeinrichVoelkel]

Very interesting Roger, I wasn't aware there are other systems as well.

[Roger Hesketh]

Very interesting Roger, I wasn't aware there are other systems as well.

If you move a way from 4x5 their are plenty of other film holding systems many that offer great weight saving over 4x5 without losing that much in terms of film area. In what you might say was the heyday of larger format film say during the 20's and 30's their were plenty of systems which offered considerable weight and in particular bulk savings often more important than weight saving.

Check out the Patent Etui for instance http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Patent_Etui

9x12 is not that much smaller than 4x5 but the camera weighs only 815g. The single metal holders for that camera are relatively heavy for their size though but two of them take up less bulk and are lighter than a 4x5 double dark slide.

A 3 1/4x 41/4 Graflex Bag Mag designed for use with film septums loaded with 12 film septums weighs only 450g. I have heard that the Bag Mags designed for film plates which are thicker can also be used with film septums from the later mags and that 18 Septums can then be fitted in them. I have however never done that.