8x10 inch scanning with V700/750

[Remko810]

Hi there,
Who has good experiance with scanning 8x10 inch with the Epson V700 or V750?
I hear that the wet mount is not realy working properly. They say you miss the borders. Is it true?
There is a possibillity to buy anti newton glass, is that working ok?

Is it still much better to use a drumscan?

Kind regards,
Remko

[PCroteau]

I just started doing some 8x10 scans on a v750 using AN glass with the emulsion side down and I am getting some good results although I would really like to do wet mount scans on the scanner glass. I'm just unsure about the sealing of the scanner. I've read a little about polyurethane glue working but it wasn't very in-depth.

I'm wondering if anyone on here has sealed a scanner with glue or tape and successfully did wet mount scans and how were the results?

The scanner has two lens that focus at different points. One that focuses around the height of the film holders and one that focuses on the height of the bottom scanner glass. The lens for holders does not cover 8x10 so when scanning 8x10 you have to scan it on the glass bed using the film area guide.

[Professional]

I hope one day when i upgrade to 8x10 then scan it with my V750, for now i just scan MF different sizes and 4x5, if you have any 8x10 sheet you can send it to me then i will scan it for you free, but i don't know how can i pay for shipping the sheet back [i can send the scan file over the net].

[falth j]

In a scanning workshop that I attended some years ago and hosted by departed Ted Harris, he related that in his experience, the mess and cleanup wasn't worth the bother in terms of wet mount results on this this epson scanner...

[Gem Singer]

Ted passed away before the Epson 700 series was introduced. He probably was referring to the Epson 4990.

The Epson V750 is designed for wet scanning. However, its wet scanning accessory tray is slightly under-size for an 8x10 negative.

I have scanned a few 8x10 negatives on the wet scanning tray of my V750 by trimming the negative to fit the tray. This was only was effective where I was planning on cropping, anyways.

[sanking]

In a scanning workshop that I attended some years ago and hosted by departed Ted Harris, he related that in his experience, the mess and cleanup wasn't worth the bother in terms of wet mount results on this this epson scanner...

Whether or not the effort is worth the results depends on many factors but in some cases I think it may be worth the trouble.

There is one fairly easy way to scan a full 8X10 with fluid mount, without risking getting fluid on the scanner glass. Buy a piece of glass of the same size as the framing glass. It should just fit in the frame. Put very thin (abotu 1mm thick) shims on the four corners of the glass so that it floats just above the scanner glass. Test for best plane of focus with shims of different thickness, but best range should be between about 0.5mm and 2.0mm.

Now flud mount your 8X10 negative to the under side of the glass (side with the shims), and tape the edges. Blue masking tape works fine for this. Be sure to clean the glass and negative well before mounting, and make sure you push out all of the bubbles between the mylar and negative. You may also fluid mount by sandwiching a thin sheet of mylar over the negative. However, I believe you will get just as good results by just fluid mounting the negative to glass (base side of film facing glass) with the emulsion facing the CCD. This is opposite orientation of what Epson recommends but it is consistent with what is recommended with high end desk top scanners.

The above method has described before on this forum. It is very easy to implement this type of fluid mounting for 8X10 negatives.

Sandy

[ASRafferty]

Ted passed away before the Epson 700 series was introduced. He probably was referring to the Epson 4990.


Actually, not...his review of the 700's was in the mag over the summer of '06. In general, though, his email conversations after he'd tested the 700 reflect that he didn't feel there was much gain over the 4990 in this regard.

[Asher Kelman]

Whether or not the effort is worth the results depends on many factors but in some cases I think it may be worth the trouble.

There is one fairly easy way to scan a full 8X10 with fluid mount, without risking getting fluid on the scanner glass. Buy a piece of glass of the same size as the framing glass. It should just fit in the frame. Put very thin (abotu 1mm thick) shims on the four corners of the glass so that it floats just above the scanner glass. Test for best plane of focus with shims of different thickness, but best range should be between about 0.5mm and 2.0mm.

Now flud mount your 8X10 negative to the under side of the glass (side with the shims), and tape the edges. Blue masking tape works fine for this. Be sure to clean the glass and negative well before mounting, and make sure you push out all of the bubbles between the mylar and negative. You may also fluid mount by sandwiching a thin sheet of mylar over the negative. However, I believe you will get just as good results by just fluid mounting the negative to glass (base side of film facing glass) with the emulsion facing the CCD. This is opposite orientation of what Epson recommends but it is consistent with what is recommended with high end desk top scanners.

The above method has described before on this forum. It is very easy to implement this type of fluid mounting for 8X10 negatives.



Sandy,

An heroic description and important! But is there a diagram of this setup as I'm left a tad confused as to the order surfaces.

Asher :)

[sanking]

Sandy,

An heroic description and important! But is there a diagram of this setup as I'm left a tad confused as to the order surfaces.

Asher :)

I don't have a diagram, but the order of surfaces is, CCD>base glass of scanner>air space created by shims>emulsion side of negative>shiny base side of negative fluid mounted to glass, tape around edges>glass>light.

Hope this clarifies.

Sandy

[falth j]

octogenarian,

with no disrespect ...

"Ted passed away before the Epson 700 series was introduced. He probably was referring to the Epson 4990."


Ted passed away, April 21, 2008.


On 23rd February 2006 - Epson…

introduced/announced to the consumer market, two premium flatbed scanners,

according to the Epson announcement, the Perfection V750 Pro is ideal for the professional photographer while the Epson Perfection V700 Photo is suitable for the photo enthusiast or advanced amateur photographer


The V700/V750 were already out in the consumer market for nearly a year when Ted demonstrated their capabilities, both the V750 and epson 4990 at one of his scanning workshops held in Columbus, Ohio, September 14 - September 16, 2007, at the Midwest Photo Exchange, courtesy of Jim Andracki for space and equipment...


His fellow presenter was Michael Mutmansky.


Ted and Michael had setup both epson scanner's, the V750 and the 4990, as well as the latest printers of the time from Hewlett Packard, Epson and Canon for attendees to use and compare differences in output and print quality ...

His thoughts, about using both the new v750 and the old 4990, with the same knowledgeable, experienced operator, there would be little noticeable difference to discern from scans with either scanner...

When asked about wet mounting on the V750, Ted related, 'for all the time, effort and expense, there would be little discernable difference to warrant wet mounting and the cleanup' that he didn't like, for new or moderate users, and we would probably be inclined to agree with him, if we tried too.

Ted mentioned that if he had a choice, most of the time, he would opt out of the wet mounting steps with this scanner, based on his personal preference.



sanking...

I defer to your experience and expertise…

“Whether or not the effort is worth the results depends on many factors but in some cases I think it may be worth the trouble.”


in adding to the post regarding my recollection of that particular scanning workshop, I recited what Ted had described as more or less, what would be a somewhat fruitless experience using the V750 scanners wet-mount capabilities for the majority of people using these two consumer based scanners….


Ted indicated the quality is quite acceptable for most novice and advanced users of those pieces of equipment, considering the price we would pay for them.

It was generally conceded for most people attending the workshop, that they would probably not have the experience to notice the slight improvement with the added wet mounting process, and the need to clean up the epson scanner glass mess completely, in order to scan another negative, weighed heavily against his approval of the process and quantities of negative scans...

further, most users of these consumer based scanners probably did not possess the experience or capability to initially understand/see the scanner & software subtleties and settings involved in the scanning process until much time was spent learning the ropes…


By chiming into the post, I did not wish to split hairs with the ‘experts’, but merely to recite what two scanning workshop presenters thought of the scanners’ capabilities, with different software, and different computers used in the day of September of 2007.

Not all who read and post here, are as capable, nor have we experienced, or will we be able to achieve the same level of quality, as those who have filled many of their days doing these processes to perfection…


so my purpose in posting, was to add a different point of view for consideration,

and to bring attention to the fact that some experienced users felt that their perceived, as small incremental increases in quality for the average user, may not be worth the time and effort the average user would readily need or perceive...


perhaps, the technology has changed in the intervening years, I do not know...

[Gem Singer]

Faith j,

Amy, Ted's wife, set me straight about the date that he passed away in post #7 of this thread.

I apologize for my lapse of memory.

It just seems like Ted has been gone for a long time. I miss him, and I'm sure that Amy misses him too.

Ted and I field tested a 4x5 Chinese wooden camera for Jim, at Midwest Photo. We shared our impressions by phone a few times then advised Jim that it was a piece of junk.

Although I did not attend, I am familiar with the scanning workshops that Michael and Ted presented at at Midwest Photo.

I can honestly say that Ted, more than anyone else, motivated me on this forum to learn how to scan and print my negatives digitally.

[ASRafferty]

Faith j,

Ted and I field tested a 4x5 Chinese wooden camera for Jim

I remember that...he always wanted to be able to love a pretty wooden camera, and it really pained him when the camera ultimately didn't deserve to be loved. :)

[PCroteau]

I'd like to thank Sanking for the wet mounting method. It worked great except I had better results when I mounted the emulsion side to the glass. I tried using some mylar to sandwich it as well but I was getting better results without it. I found that a height around .5mm to work really well for the lens that can fit 8x10.

Quality wise I don't notice much difference in the sharpness but the amount of noise seems much better. There are no newton rings to make strange color noise patterns. It was almost impossible to get out all the air bubbles but they retouch out in a second.

Thanks again!

[Asher Kelman]

I'd like to thank Sanking for the wet mounting method. It worked great except I had better results when I mounted the emulsion side to the glass. I tried using some mylar to sandwich it as well but I was getting better results without it. I found that a height around .5mm to work really well for the lens that can fit 8x10.

Quality wise I don't notice much difference in the sharpness but the amount of noise seems much better. There are no newton rings to make strange color noise patterns. It was almost impossible to get out all the air bubbles but they retouch out in a second.

Thanks again!

When you say you mounted emulsion side to the glass and the distance was 0.5 mm how did you do that? Are you using the supplied 8x10 frame?

Also how did you protect the scanner from the fluid with the film directly on the scanner glass? Do you have a sheet of AN glass on top of the film to keep it flat?

Where does the mylar go?

Thanks,

Asher

[Asher Kelman]

I don't have a diagram, but the order of surfaces is, CCD>base glass of scanner>air space created by shims>emulsion side of negative>shiny base side of negative fluid mounted to glass, tape around edges>glass>light.

Hope this clarifies.

Sandy

Thanks, so much!

Do you have a favorite fluid or use Kagi and how does one clean up the film? Is it left all greasy? What holders do you use? Are they the ones from http://www.betterscanning.com/ and do you need to trim 8x10 film to fit?

Asher

[Asher Kelman]

I'm considering buying a v700/v750, (hmm....is the v750 needed if one has Vuescan and buys the film holders from ScanScience).

Can anyone comment on experience with the ScanScience, (or other available) fluid mount kits for 4x5 and 8x10 scanning for color film and B&W to be printed up to x4.

Thanks

Asher

[ljsegil]

bump
lj

[Asher Kelman]

Sanking,

I've re-read your posts and now understand your setup. Thanks.

Asher

[sanking]

Sanking,

I've re-read your posts and now understand your setup. Thanks.

Asher

Sorry, it was not clear to me what you were asking. BTW, I do own the Betterscanning holder and consider it a very useful accessory for scanning with the V700/V750 with negatives 6.5X8.5" or less.

Unfortunately the only way to scan 8X10 with the V700/V750 is either directly on the scanner platen, or on a piece of glass elevated over the scanner glass. I believe the second way is better because it allows you to adjust for best plane of focus.

Sandy