What modern lenses cover 8x10 with movements?

[Leigh]

I've recently expanded my LF shooting to include an 8x10 Tachihara.

In reviewing the catalogs I have, I find few lenses that will cover that format with reasonable shifts/rises, and all of them are 150mm to 450mm.

Unfortunately only two of my dozen 4x5 lenses will work with the 8x10.

Are there any longer or shorter lenses that will cover the format, i.e. image circle of 400mm minimum?

Not interested in Petzvals or other lenses older than perhaps 20 years.

TIA

- Leigh

[John Kasaian]

G Clarons from 240mm on up. 450mm Nikon M.
I think some of the best deals going are lenses old enought to vote a couple of times over---especially the Kodak 14" Commecial Ektar & 19" & 24" Goerz Artar.
Shorter lenses are going to be heavy and or costly. The 120 SW Nikon is pretty slick but not alot of wiggle room but IIRC it covers 8x10. Longer lenses need lots of bellows. 24" of bellows plus a good amount in reserve will tax the capabilities of many wooden field cameras unless you've got something like a studio camera or Calumet green monster.

[Leigh]

Hi John,

Thanks for the info. I have the Nikkor-M 450mm/f9.

I tend to translate FLs into their 4x5 equivalent, since it's a simple divide-by-two.

The range I've found for 8x10 is much narrower than the range available for the 4x5.

Thanks again.

- Leigh

[John Kasaian]

One the bright side, 8x10 lenses are quite a bit larger than 4x5 lenses. Who'd want to carry a 4 or 5 lens kit around plus a compliment of larger and heavier 8x10 film holders?

[Vaughn]

Have you checked this?

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/

I doubt there are any shorter than 150 that will cover at infinity...even if your camera can actually handle anything shorter, which I doubt. I use a 159mm that is an SOB to use with all the bellows I have on the Zone VI 8x10.

There are 600's available, if you have the bellows draw to handle them -- a triple extension Tachi probably can. I like the 24" RD Artar, but really do not use it that much...I use the 19" version much more. I also have a Turner Reich convertible -- a 12"/19"/28". At 28" it takes my bellows of my Zone VI 8x10 to the very ends of the rails to get infinity in focus -- much easier to use on my Kodak 2D.

But I like what John said, you probably won't be hauling a large collection of lenses around -- and, IMO, the larger the format, the less lenses you need.

[Leigh]

Have you checked this?
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/
Hi Vaughn,

Nope. It's an Excel spreadsheet, and I'm on a Mac, so I can't read it.

I've accessed all of the resources I can find online, including the Kerry Thalman archive and all of the manufacturers' sites.

Thanks.

- Leigh

[Leigh]

One the bright side, 8x10 lenses are quite a bit larger than 4x5 lenses. Who'd want to carry a 4 or 5 lens kit around plus a compliment of larger and heavier 8x10 film holders?
True statement. :rolleyes: But I need the exercise. :)

My Nikkor-W 360mm/f6.5 weighs 1420 grams, which is over 3 pounds. It's part of my 12-lens 4x5 kit. :eek:

Thanks.

- Leigh

[Lachlan 717]

I've recently expanded my LF shooting to include an 8x10 Tachihara.

In reviewing the catalogs I have, I find few lenses that will cover that format with reasonable shifts/rises, and all of them are 150mm to 450mm.

Unfortunately only two of my dozen 4x5 lenses will work with the 8x10.

Are there any longer or shorter lenses that will cover the format, i.e. image circle of 400mm minimum?

Not interested in Petzvals or other lenses older than perhaps 20 years.

TIA

- Leigh

And you had the audacity to tell me to learn how to use the search function....

[urs0polar]

Hi Vaughn,

Nope. It's an Excel spreadsheet, and I'm on a Mac, so I can't read it.

I've accessed all of the resources I can find online, including the Kerry Thalman archive and all of the manufacturers' sites.

Thanks.

- Leigh

It's an excel spreadsheet yes, but also an html link:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF8x10in.html

-urs0polar

[MIke Sherck]

There aren't that many modern lenses which cover 400mm, frankly. How about lowering your expectations to, say, 350mm or so? That gives a couple of inches of movement, more or less, which is more than adequate for most purposes.

Mike

[Ole Tjugen]

Or you could lower your expectations for "modern". There are LOTS of older lenses with ample coverage, and performance at least as good as anything made since 1991.

My three most used lenses on 8x10 is a 121/8 Super Angulon (covers straight on), a 210mm Angulon (pre-WWII, lots and lots of coverage), and a 360/5.6 Symmar (1960's, big heavy single-coated boat anchor). I have even used the Symmar converted as 600mm...

[Ray Van Nes]

Some other suggestions are the Fujinon 240-A and the Nikkor 300m. The Fujinon C series both 450 and 600 are commendable. There also oddballs like the 210 Wollensak Graphic Raptar which turn up on Ebay from time to time. I have one, it is very sharp and has huge coverage. You may have to have it mounted into a shutter. I have mine mounted in a small Alphax.

[tgtaylor]

The Nikkor 120mm SW will cover 8x10 at infinity. Here's a photo made with it using front rise:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=74887

Thomas

[Gem Singer]

Leigh,

A few years ago I owned an 8x10 Tachihara (double extension).

Since the camera was a heavy-weight, I matched it up with three light-weight lenses that had large image circles:

Fujinon f8.5 300C
Fujinon f12.5 450C
Fujinon f11.5 600C

("C" stands for compact)

[Leigh]

Hi Gem,

I've considered the Fujinon-C series, although I don't own any at this point.

They have a good reputation as far as I can tell. The only downside is a relatively slow aperture.

Yes, mine's a double-extension version, so the bellows draw is 550mm max.

Thanks.

- Leigh

[Leigh]

The Nikkor 120mm SW will cover 8x10 at infinity. Here's a photo made with it using front rise:
Hi Thomas,

I had seen that thread, but didn't know what lens you were using.

That would be a 60mm equivalent in a 4x5 format, which is wider than any of my 4x5 lenses.

Great shot. I love the tree-lined lane.

Thanks.

- Leigh

[Leigh]

There aren't that many modern lenses which cover 400mm, frankly. How about lowering your expectations to, say, 350mm or so?
Hi Mike,

That might make sense.

An IC of 350mm will give 15.5mm of shift on the wide dimension, and 18.8 on the narrow side.

That's probably sufficient for many purposes, although the camera supports 120mm of rise.

The advantage of a large IC is that your most-used range is entirely within the full illumination of the lens, not toward the edges where vignetting and fall-off may occur.

Thanks.

- Leigh

[Leigh]

It's an excel spreadsheet yes, but also an html link:
OK. Yes, I have that HTML version in my files.

I didn't realize the Excel was the same.

The chart is 9 years old, but I suspect little has changed in the last decade. :rolleyes:

Thanks.

- Leigh

[Leigh]

And you had the audacity to tell me to learn how to use the search function....
Yep.

Search works great if you want page after page of Petzvals.

You can't even exclude that category because there are so many different names used.

- Leigh

[Jim Becia]

Leigh,

I'll tell you what I did for an 8x10 lineup that seems to work pretty well for me. I have the following:

150 Nikkor SW f8
210 Fuji 5.6 (this is the single coated version with lettering on the inside. Has about 350mm of coverage.)
300 Fuji 5.6 (very sharp and very reasonable and good coverage)
450 Fuji 12.5 (but also picked up the Nikkor 450 f9 to try. Both have plenty coverage.)
600 Fuji f11.5 (my 8x10 has just enough extension to use this.)

Also have the Germinar 240 f9 if I want to carry another lens. I find the 150,210,300, and 450 makes a nice 4 lens set. Don't know if this helps. Jim

[John Powers]

Here are the lenses I use on 8x10 and
except for the 150 Nikkor and 300mm Symmar on 7x17.

150mm Nikkor SW f8 that has an image circle of 400mm @ f22.
250mm Wide Field Ektar f 6.8 ic over 464mm
273mm Wollensak Raptar wide field Pi-Alphax f 6.8 ic over 464mm
300mm Schneider APO-Symmar f5.6 image circle 425mm
12” Gold Rim Dagor f6.8. ic 500mm+ This is the lens I use the most on both cameras
450mm Nikkor-M Sinar f9 ic 440mm
600mm Fujinon C f11.5 ic 620mm

The 600 wouldn’t work on your camera though.

When I moved up from 4x5 I also was concerned about high minimum f stops. What I found is that so much more light reaches the ground glass that it is not problem.

John

[tgtaylor]

Hi Thomas,

I had seen that thread, but didn't know what lens you were using.

That would be a 60mm equivalent in a 4x5 format, which is wider than any of my 4x5 lenses.

Great shot. I love the tree-lined lane.

Thanks.

- Leigh

Thanks Leigh.

Also, the 300mm Nikkor-M covers 8x10 with movements and you can also use it in the vertical plane. As an added bonus, it's super sharp and compact (Copal 1 weighing about 8ozs) and retails for just $600 brand new! The image circle of both lens is greater than the mfg specs.

Thomas

[Leigh]

Also, the 300mm Nikkor-M covers 8x10 with movements and you can also use it in the vertical plane.
Hi Thomas,

I have that lens, but didn't try it yet.

Thanks for the update.

- Leigh

[Leigh]

450mm Nikkor-M Sinar f9 ic 440mm
600mm Fujinon C f11.5 ic 620mm
The 600 wouldn’t work on your camera though.
Hi John,

Good suggestions.

I have the Nikkor-M 450/9. Great apo lens.

In fact most of my lenses are Apos. I only shoot B&W, but the film is panchromatic so chromatic aberrations are still a concern.

The Fujinon-C 600/11.5 is an inch too long for my bellows with an FFL of 573mm, but I could always build an extension to allow its use. It would be just for long-distance work, obviously, not much 1:1 with that guy.

Thanks.

- Leigh

[Leigh]

150 Nikkor SW f8
210 Fuji 5.6 (this is the single coated version with lettering on the inside. Has about 350mm of coverage.)
300 Fuji 5.6 (very sharp and very reasonable and good coverage)
450 Fuji 12.5 (but also picked up the Nikkor 450 f9 to try. Both have plenty coverage.)
600 Fuji f11.5 (my 8x10 has just enough extension to use this.)
Hi Jim,

Yes, the Nikkor-SW 150/8 with its IC of 400mm is the only lens of that FL in my database that will cover 8x10.

The Fujinons have a good reputation, and tend toward larger ICs than comparable lenses from their competitors.

Thanks for the suggestions.

- Leigh

[Noah A]

Thanks Leigh.

Also, the 300mm Nikkor-M covers 8x10 with movements and you can also use it in the vertical plane. As an added bonus, it's super sharp and compact (Copal 1 weighing about 8ozs) and retails for just $600 brand new! The image circle of both lens is greater than the mfg specs.

Thomas

Where can you still get a new Nikkor 300 M? Just wondering as I've been considering a compact 300mm for my 4x5 kit.

[Gem Singer]

Leigh,

See if you can use a combination of forward base tilt and axis tilt on the front standard of your camera to extend the maximum bellows length a few mm.

I know it can be done on the Shen Hao, but I've never tried it on a Tachi.

I misled you. My 8x10 Tachi was a triple extension, not a double extension.

It handled the Fuji 600C easily.

[Gem Singer]

Noah A,

Nikon no longer manufactures their Nikkor LF lenses.

Unless you are lucky enough to locate a dealer that still has one in stock, you will need to settle for a previously owned 300M.

Watch this forum, eBay, and KEH. They come up for sale once in a while.

[Leigh]

See if you can use a combination of forward base tilt and axis tilt on the front standard of your camera to extend the maximum bellows length a few mm.
Hi Gem,

Yes, that will work. You can actually get a significant extension that way while still keeping the lens centered, considering the large rise and center tilt available on the front standard.

Thanks for the suggestion.

- Leigh

[tgtaylor]

Where can you still get a new Nikkor 300 M? Just wondering as I've been considering a compact 300mm for my 4x5 kit.

I purchased mine new from Midwest Photo Exchange around 2006. Nikon stopped making LF Lens a few years earlier so right now it may be difficult finding a new one. However used ones do show up for sale from time to time and, like all good lens, hold their value.

The last time I checked, B&H still had the Nikkor 120mm SW for sale. I purchased mine new from B&H around 2008 on impulse and for a while thereafter sort of regretted it because the field of view was just slightly wider than on my 150mm Rodenstock APO Sironar S but weighs substantially more with much more bulk. However I just purchased an 8x10 camera which the 120 Nikkor's image circle is large enough to cover and the lens makes for a super wide lens on that camera. It's also a very sharp lens and, like the 300-M, retails for a low price.

Thomas

[Leigh]

The last time I checked, B&H still had the Nikkor 120mm SW for sale.
I purchased a new Nikkor-SW 120/8 from B&H a couple of months ago, and they still show new ones on their website.

Great lens. I hadn't thought about it when I posted my previous reply.

- Leigh

[Noah A]

I purchased mine new from Midwest Photo Exchange around 2006. Nikon stopped making LF Lens a few years earlier so right now it may be difficult finding a new one...

Oh. 2006. When you said that they're $600 new I thought perhaps you knew of a store with a secret stash of old stock.

I have no problem with a used lens but if the price were right I'd go for a new one. I know B&H has a few new Nikkors like the 120SW left, but no 300M.

[Gem Singer]

Noah,

The Nikkor f9 300M and f8 90SW are the two most sought after Nikon lenses.

It's not easy to find previously owned ones, and when you do, they usually demand higher prices.

Be patient. Sometimes, they show up on this forum.

You can also send an Email to jim@mpex.com. Ask him if he can locate one for you.

[Brian Ellis]

Hi Jim,

Yes, the Nikkor-SW 150/8 with its IC of 400mm is the only lens of that FL in my database that will cover 8x10.

The Fujinons have a good reputation, and tend toward larger ICs than comparable lenses from their competitors.

Thanks for the suggestions.

- Leigh

I haven't read the entire thread so maybe this is a dupe but I had several 159mm Wollensak f9.5 lenses and several 210 G Clarons. Both covered 8x10 with movements (the specs for the G Claron would indicate that it doesn't but it does at F16 and with room for movements when you get down to about f32 and smaller). Also the Nikon 300M and a 450mm Red Dot Artar (I think, I could have that one wrong, I know I had a long Artar and it wouldn't have been for 4x5). ). I don't know if you consider them "modern," to me "modern" in LF is anything in the second half of the 20th century.

[John NYC]

OK. Yes, I have that HTML version in my files.

I didn't realize the Excel was the same.

The chart is 9 years old, but I suspect little has changed in the last decade. :rolleyes:

Thanks.

- Leigh

Just fyi, there are many ways to read Excel files on a Mac. Excel for one. OpenOffice (free) for two. And three, built into the Mac OS, "Quick Look" for a read-only, limited type of view. There are more ways also.

[jsparks]

I use Nikon 120-SW, 300 and 450 Nikon M and 600 Fuji C. I thought the slower speed would be a problem so I got the 450 Nikon instead of the slower 450 Fuji, but in retrospect would have preferred the Fuji to save some weight. The speed of the 600 was never a problem.

I never really have problems with coverage even though many of these should be marginal according to the specs. For one thing, the specs are at f/22 and I often use smaller apertures than that. For another, I am pretty much always closer than infinity, especially with the longer lenses. Infinity is much further away 8x10 than it is for 4x5! A head shot on 8x10 is more or less 1:1 after all.

In 4x5, my most used lenses were 210 and 300. Before I really got started, I expected to use the 450 the most followed by the 600. However, I found the 600 to be pretty impractical. With any extension at all, you end up walking back and forth to make any adjustments to the lens and almost every photo I made with the 600 had some extension. I'm used to stopping down the lens while looking at the ground glass through a loupe and this just doesn't work with the 600. To my surprise, the 300 is my most used 8x10 lens with the 450 a fairly rare use and I could have easily done without the 600. I'm not much of a wide angle user and didn't use the 120 much on 4x5 and even less on 8x10. A 240mm would probably have been nice, but I never got one, I think I've used my 210mm a few times, but it doesn't really cover 8x10.

[Justin Cormack]

OK. Yes, I have that HTML version in my files.

I didn't realize the Excel was the same.

The chart is 9 years old, but I suspect little has changed in the last decade. :rolleyes:

Thanks.

- Leigh

Er, there is one new lens for 8x10 in the last 10 years, the Schneider Apo-Tele-Xenar 360mm f11. As a second lens with say the Fuji 240 its quite a useful option...

[Leigh]

Hi Justin,

I have the Nikkor-W 360/6.5 with its huge 494mm image circle.

I just used it yesterday, with the full 60mm rise available on my 8x10 Tachihara.

Have not processed the film yet. No visible fall-off on the GG at full aperture, so I expect no problems @ f/22.

Thanks.

- Leigh