Run Windows XP on MAC

[sanking]

I have a couple of PC laptops that are dedicated to running a few old plotting programs that won't run on the MAC. I figure that I can get rid of these machines and run the PC programs on one of my MACs but have no idea which emulation program would be best. If possible I would like to be able to switch between MAC OS and Windows without having to reboot the computer, which I had to do last time I used an emulation program.

Both of my MACs are fairly recent machines running OS 10.6.6, with 10 gb of RAM.

Advice and opinions appreciated.

Sandy

[Ed Kelsey]

I use Bootcamp but you do have to reboot to change the OS. Parallels Desktop allows switching back and forth without rebooting but you have to pay for it. Also I understand Bootcamp runs better than Parallels.

[QT Luong]

I've used Parallels, but I've never been satisfied with the performance and stability of the software. My sister-in-law seems happy with VMWare Fusion. None of them require rebooting, but they are emulators, whereas with Bootcamp, you run Windows natively which is much faster, in particular with graphics. Personally, I found it simpler just to buy an inexpensive Windows laptop.

[drew.saunders]

I have VMWare on my work iMac with XP, Windows 7 and Ubuntu. Running all at once isn't so hot, but any one of them works just fine. I used Parallels in the past, but it was much more buggy than VMWare.

[Joanna Carter]

I use Parallels. It is not emulation software, it is a virtual machine, running natively on the Intel-based hardware. But, be warned, you need memory (at least 2GB, if not more) to get the best out of any VM; don't forget you are effectively sharing all your resources like memory and CPUs.

But Parallels does allow you to run both Windows and Mac programs side by side, allowing copying and pasting between the two and reading/moving/copying files between the two machines.

[paulr]

Isn't there an open source paralleliaztion package? I read a good review of one a while ago. Supposedly it worked reliably but lacked a few advanced features of the commercial packages.

[SocalAstro]

You can also try VirtualBox made by Sun Microsystems (now Oracle) - the best thing about it is that it's FREE :-)

http://www.virtualbox.org/

Cheers,
Leon

[Leigh]

I run several windoze apps on my MacBook Pro using Crossover.

It's a stand-alone virtual machine that doesn't require booting into any version of windoze. It just runs as an app under OS X.

- Leigh

[keith schreiber]

I've used Parallels on my MBP since 2006 to run BTZS Plotter, the PC version of QTR, Quicken and Quickbooks. I can't recall having any problems.

Another option (that does not require purchasing Windows) is Crossover (http://www.codeweavers.com/products/). While not quite as pretty as Parallels (and probably Fusion as well), it works with all the apps listed above.

~ Keith

[clay harmon]

I have both Parallels and VMware Fusion. They both work pretty well, and as long as you have a multi-core Mac, they should all run fine. I can't say I have a preference for one over the other, although Parallels is the most transparent in practice. It puts each Windows program in it's own frame on your Mac desktop. So you really don't even have a windows desktop to interact with, only the particular windows program. You can bring up a Windows desktop by clicking on the Parallels program in the Finder menu, but there really is not much need to. As others have pointed out, loads of memory will make everything run smoother. The old line credited to Wallis Simpson that 'you can't be too rich or too thin' needs to be appended with 'or have too much memory'.

[Paul H]

Virtualbox works well enough, and is free. You can run it in seamless mode, which makes the windows program look like it's running directly on your Mac desktop. I've run Virtualbox on my Mac, and on a Linux box at work for some time.

Parallels or VMware Fusion are commercial options that may have a little more functionality, but obviously cost money.

In some cases though, you can get away with running the windows programs through CrossOver, which is a supported implementation of WINE / Darwine.

[Kirk Gittings]

I use Bootcamp but you do have to reboot to change the OS. Parallels Desktop allows switching back and forth without rebooting but you have to pay for it. Also I understand Bootcamp runs better than Parallels.
I gave up on Parallels a couple of years ago. I found it very quirky and unstable. Maybe it is better now.

[clay harmon]

I also had an earlier version of Parallels that was flaky, which was why I picked up VMware Fusion. The latest version of Parallels is much better and very stable, however.


I gave up on Parallels a couple of years ago. I found it very quirky and unstable. Maybe it is better now.

[Ken Lee]

Another vote for VMWare Fusion. I run XP with it on my iMac. You do need an Intel Mac, though. (The old PowerPC architecture is not supported by Parallels, VMWare, or VirtualBox.)

I found Parallels not only flaky and highly unstable, but also a mess to uninstall.

One nice thing about running Windows (or any other OS) as a VM, is that you can save the state of the machine, with programs running etc. You can back up the disk image and save it, or send it to someone if you like.

[Marko]

I've been using Parallels here and there over the last few years and didn't have any negative experience. It is a little quirky to install, but nothing that couldn't be dealt with.

What Joanna stated about memory, especially the leaks, is accurate and something to keep in mind. Since you already have enough RAM installed, you should be fine if you don't quit and restart your sessions too often.

Marko

[Joanna Carter]

I gave up on Parallels a couple of years ago. I found it very quirky and unstable. Maybe it is better now.
Oh, it's a lot better. I use it to support multi-platform software development and can happily run all day; which, if you were a programmer, you would realise is quite a feat, considering how many chances you have to screw up the memory :D :cool:

[Joanna Carter]

One nice thing about running Windows (or any other OS) as a VM, is that you can save the state of the machine, with programs running etc. You can back up the disk image and save it, or send it to someone if you like.
Now there you have one heck of a reason to use VMs.

I make sure that, after I have installed and setup Windows and the applications I want to use, the first thing I do is to make a disk copy of the "machine" plus a "snapshot" within the VM. So now I have a base "clean machine" that I can revert to should things go too pear-shaped in Windows.

In the software development world, more and more people are setting up multiple VMs, each one dedicated to a particular development tool for a particular client; thus avoiding all sorts of stability problems and ensuring each client's confidentiality.

With enough meory/CPU cores, you can even test network communications between two "machines", all on the one computer.

[bsimison]

Another vote for VirtualBox. I have used both Parallels and VMWare, and while they were nice (but not without their quirks), I have found VirtualBox to meet all of my needs. I switched because I could never get either of the $$ applications to successfully communicate with my Magellan GPS. VirtualBox did so easily.

[Scott Knowles]

To ask the obvious, why not use an available application which does run on Mac's? Why emulate Windows just for some old apps and have all the headaches of a parallel OS? There's quite a few excellent apps ( which you can export the datasets into them or into a compatible app like Numbers) to create plots. It would seem easier to me to convert to new apps than run Windows for a few old apps.

[Ken Lee]

1) Not all Windows applications have an OS X analogue - and vice versa.

2) If you've already paid for one, why not simply use it ?

[Marko]

To ask the obvious, why not use an available application which does run on Mac's? Why emulate Windows just for some old apps and have all the headaches of a parallel OS? There's quite a few excellent apps ( which you can export the datasets into them or into a compatible app like Numbers) to create plots. It would seem easier to me to convert to new apps than run Windows for a few old apps.

A logical guess (within the context!) would be that those older applications produced files in non-trasferable proprietary format. Migrating established data is often the biggest problem in switching platforms, and the longer the old platform has been in use, the bigger the need for migration becomes and the harder it gets.

[Joanna Carter]

A logical guess (within the context!) would be that those older applications produced files in non-trasferable proprietary format. Migrating established data is often the biggest problem in switching platforms, and the longer the old platform has been in use, the bigger the need for migration becomes and the harder it gets.
Then you could always approach someone like me, who writes software for Mac (as well as Windows) to see if it was possible/worthwhile porting the data/app to Mac :cool:

[Ivan J. Eberle]

I like the upgraded version of Parallels that I've been running for over 4 years on a MacBook Pro dual core. First version was indeed flakey but this one's been stable. What few issues I've had mostly relate to Microsoft doing its authentication process in background (MS once killing off my legally boughten and registered version of XP for blocking the ports it uses to do so).

I tried VMWare trial long ago but with Parallels didn't see the need.

The beauty of virtualization versus Boot Camp is that you get to leave your files in a the OSX format so that Windows viruses and worms can't touch them (and trash your disk). For this reason alone, if I thought I needed Bootcamp, I'd get a separate cheap Windows machine instead.

[SamReeves]

I prefer the Bootcamp route. Your Mac can run Windows natively, and take advantage of all your hardware's capability. The emulators can't do that as well. So you have to reboot for three minutes or so, but then that's Windows for ya. :D

[Joanna Carter]

I prefer the Bootcamp route. Your Mac can run Windows natively, and take advantage of all your hardware's capability. The emulators can't do that as well. So you have to reboot for three minutes or so, but then that's Windows for ya. :D
But Parallels and VMWare are not emulators, they are virtual machine hosts that connect to the the real hardware, providing its functionality.
Don't forget that Bootcamp has to provide a BIOS emulation for Windows instead of using the native EFI that Macs provide, just as Parallels or VMWare does.

[Scott Davis]

One MAJOR caveat for using Bootcamp on a laptop... Windows XP does not have a native thermostat app built in, so it will not turn on the CPU fan when the CPU heats up. Parallels or one of the other VM solutions will take care of that for you.

[Scott Knowles]

A logical guess (within the context!) would be that those older applications produced files in non-trasferable proprietary format. Migrating established data is often the biggest problem in switching platforms, and the longer the old platform has been in use, the bigger the need for migration becomes and the harder it gets.

What are the names of the old applications? I'd like to see the datafiles. They're either a text format or some binary format. If the former, almost any graphic program or spreadsheet can read them without or without some reformatting with an editor or script. If the latter, good luck, but you have the old application to export the data in a text format. Before I'd install and run Windows on a Mac I'd check the old application for the input file format or some export format for a basic text format

[onnect17]

Sandy,
I'm not familiar with your network setup but having a PC connected to it is a time saver. I'm sure there's some Remote Desktop applications available for the Mac.
I think is a lot cleaner as a solution than any emulation.

[Leigh]

To ask the obvious, why not use an available application which does run on Mac's? Why emulate Windows just for some old apps and have all the headaches of a parallel OS?
I distribute an application that's written in Visual Basic, and requires that environment.

VB is not available for the Mac.

The only option is to run the app under a virtual machine like Crossover, which does not require the installation of windoze.

The app runs just fine in that configuration.

- Leigh

[Leigh]

Before I'd install and run Windows on a Mac I'd check the old application for the input file format or some export format for a basic text format
You're making a lot of unsupported assumptions.

As I've stated previously, Crossover DOES NOT require you to install windoze in any form.

Crossover creates a virtual machine running on Mac OS X, allowing you to run all the windoze apps alongside the regular Mac apps.

The app that I wrote, and mentioned in my previous post, requires VB for its high-precision multidigit integer arithmetic and for the user interface. The requirement has absolutely nothing to do with I/O files.

- Leigh

[Marko]

What are the names of the old applications? I'd like to see the datafiles. They're either a text format or some binary format. If the former, almost any graphic program or spreadsheet can read them without or without some reformatting with an editor or script. If the latter, good luck, but you have the old application to export the data in a text format. Before I'd install and run Windows on a Mac I'd check the old application for the input file format or some export format for a basic text format

I agree, especially with the last sentence! :D

But I don't know which applications are these, they are not mine, I simply ventured one possibility. Essentially, I would trust Sandy to know what he is doing and why.

I can tell you why I need to run a VM, though. As a web developer, I need to test my sites in all browsers and all environments - make that all the major ones - on which they are going to run.

Of all the VMs I tried, I found Parallels to be the best fit for my workflow and didn't encounter any major problems with it in all this time (since 2006).

[clay harmon]

I'd like to re-iterate what Joanna is saying about the three VM options NOT being emulators. They are virtual machines, which is a very different thing. We run a citrix server at my office that is a multi-core linux box that hosts 3 different windows servers running as VMs. When I want to shake my head in wonder, I use my iPad to login to my home Mac OS box using a VNC app and then open a Windows app back at the office using the Citrix gateway to run the windows app in a window on my ipad. Crazy stuff.

[Joanna Carter]

When I want to shake my head in wonder, I use my iPad to login to my home Mac OS box using a VNC app and then open a Windows app back at the office using the Citrix gateway to run the windows app in a window on my ipad. Crazy stuff.
Heheh. You should my clients' faces when I turn up to do Windows programming on a Mac :rolleyes: Out of curiosity, which VNC software do you use on the iPad?

[Scott Knowles]

You're making a lot of unsupported assumptions.

You're right, but it's what I used to do in the USGS, converting water resources data from datalogger and application datasets, all using a MS-based interface into formats for importing into the main database. It's why I suggested before going down the road of parallel or VM on a Mac, look at the original application for the input data format. I'm guessing it wasn't entered with a GUI but some file which is likely ascii (text), and I'm guessing the application has a data export option for other applications. My argument is simple, use what you have first than add anything. But as you note, I could be wrong.

[Leigh]

I'm guessing it wasn't entered with a GUI but some file which is likely ascii (text), and I'm guessing the application has a data export option for other applications.
I run four windoze apps on the MacBook Pro:
1) Drafting/CAD program - direct operator entry with mouse or keypad (GUI), output to graphics files (usually JPEG or PDF).
2) PC board layout - direct operator entry with mouse or keypad (GUI), output to industry-standard ASCII files.
3) Accounting app - direct operator entry from keyboard (GUI), output to PDF or printer.
4) Calendric calculator - direct operator entry with keypad or mouse (GUI), output by screen dump to printer.

The first two are required to support my product development activities.
The third is the books for my business.
The fourth is an application I wrote and distribute.

None of these would fit your paradigm, which I suggest is extremely limited and focused on a particular type of computer application.

I don't disagree with your underlying philosophy. :cool:

- Leigh