Ilex 12" Paragon (I am new to 5x7")

[kq6up]

Yesterday I made my first 5x7" negative with my new B&J 8x10" with a 5x7" back. I was a little disappointed with my contact print. My neg looks pretty good. I will soup the next one a little longer, but even when I printed with a contrast grade of 3 it needed more snap, and it seemed like a snap I could not get from printing 3 1/2 (I will try again tonight). I tried 4 and it looked ugly no mater how I printed it.

I am starting to wonder if this lens is a dog. I had to shoot at f/8 because only one shutter speeds is currently working correctly -- that is 1/150s. It is in dire need for a CLA. Does this lens have a contrast issue? It is not coated, but I have been able to get snappy shots from uncoated glass in B&W before.

Confused ;o(

Chris Maness

[rdenney]

Yesterday I made my first 5x7" negative with my new B&J 8x10" with a 5x7" back. I was a little disappointed with my contact print. My neg looks pretty good. I will soup the next one a little longer, but even when I printed with a contrast grade of 3 it needed more snap, and it seemed like a snap I could not get from printing 3 1/2 (I will try again tonight). I tried 4 and it looked ugly no mater how I printed it.

I am starting to wonder if this lens is a dog. I had to shoot at f/8 because only one shutter speeds is currently working correctly -- that is 1/150s. It is in dire need for a CLA. Does this lens have a contrast issue? It is not coated, but I have been able to get snappy shots from uncoated glass in B&W before.

Firstly, I was not aware that there were any uncoated Paragons. My 8-1/2" Paragon is certainly coated, though the coating is minimal and also rather soft.

But these are tessar designs and should be pretty snappy even without coatings. My shorter lens is plenty snappy with black and white, and I did not notice it producing noticeably flatter negatives than even my multicoated lenses. If it's sharp and if you can't see lots of scratches or cloudiness when you look through the lens, then I would not expect that to be the problem.

F/8 is a little wide for this lens, though, and that may reduce contrast a tad. Is it in an Ilex No. 4 or a No. 5? I guess my No. 4's go to 1/150, but I never used them at that speed, where I would expect them to be rather slow.

You may have overexposed the shot with a slow shutter, and then (by your own admission) under-developed it. That's a prescription for N- contrast, so it may not be surprising that the results are bit flat.

Rick "who would not trust a shutter behaving as described" Denney

[kq6up]

Thanks Rick. The Paragon might have a thin coating as you described it. I just figured it was not coated. Is this coating safe to use with the Leitz recommendation of 50/50 ammonia and peroxide mixture. That is the best lens cleaner I have ever used, but I have read that it is not good for some lens coatings. If it is the Tessar formula, it should be real sharp. It is just a little cloudy, but not more than a good cleaning wouldn't take care of. I plan on souping the next neg 30% longer. I made two of the same sitting just for that reason.

I had a dark green safelight on away from the trays since I was tray developing. I have never developed by inspection before, and it was kind of a neat experience. I am sure I did not fog with the safe light because the film holder edges have no fogging and I waited until my time was almost up before I used it. I will have to take a comparison negative in the dark because it is hard to read the contrast in such a dim light. I like the green safelight. It is kind of eerie ;o)

Thanks,
Chris Maness

[rdenney]

Thanks Rick. The Paragon might have a thin coating as you described it. I just figured it was not coated. Is this coating safe to use with the Leitz recommendation of 50/50 ammonia and peroxide mixture.

I've never used an ammonia cleaner, but all the standard lens cleaning products don't affect that coating.

If the cells will unscrew, soak the shutter in lighter fluid and then exercise it. There is some argument about whether an Ilex shutter needs to be lubricated or run dry, but you can at least get rid of whatever gumminess is in there. If that makes it function at all, then it's probably not broken and just needs a CLA. These are not difficult shutters to open up and work on--they are made like a cheap alarm clock.

I wouldn't have suggested it but I see you are an extra-class HAM, so you are probably well-steeped in the do-it-yourself ethic.

Rick "who has a couple of lenses--including a Paragon--in No. 4 shutters" Denney

[kq6up]

Thanks Rick. Heck yes! I am a hard core do-it-yourself-er. I design my own circuits and fixed some camera issues. However, some camera stuff can grenade on you into a billion micro parts that are like the hardest puzzle to put together. I have a old FD helicoid that is sitting on a shelf. I thought about the lighter fluid trick. All is working correctly. It is just gummy.

Thanks,
Chris Maness
73's de KQ6UP ;o)

[cowanw]

As to the comparison negative for developing by inspection, you will, I think, find the fixed negative to not be of much help when trying to inspect a non fixed, and non washed of any other layers negative.

[Lynn Jones]

The Paragons were always good lenses. Yours is a tessar type. A great optical engineer (Manny Kiner) formed a group and bought Ilex in 1965. The shutters were upgraded and were extremely tough (older ones were variable), rarely failed. Manny re-calculated all of the lenses and created some new ones, they were superb. The tessar type was contrasty 56 degree coverage and very sharp (Paragon, Caltar, Acutar, and Acu-Tessar). The plasmats were 72 degrees either 4.8 or 5.6, very sharp (S Caltar, Acuton, Acu-Symetrical). The f 8 super wides covered 103 degrees, were excellent (WF Caltar, Acugon, and I can't remember at this time the BBOI name). There was an excellent 20" 508mm triplet called Paragon, Caltar, Acutar, designed specifically for 8x10 advertising photography in slightly longer studio distances. It was critically sharp, good color, while it covered 45 degrees, its critical sharpness was at about 40 degrees.

Lynn

[kq6up]

I've never used an ammonia cleaner, but all the standard lens cleaning products don't affect that coating.

If the cells will unscrew, soak the shutter in lighter fluid and then exercise it. There is some argument about whether an Ilex shutter needs to be lubricated or run dry, but you can at least get rid of whatever gumminess is in there. If that makes it function at all, then it's probably not broken and just needs a CLA. These are not difficult shutters to open up and work on--they are made like a cheap alarm clock.

I wouldn't have suggested it but I see you are an extra-class HAM, so you are probably well-steeped in the do-it-yourself ethic.

Rick "who has a couple of lenses--including a Paragon--in No. 4 shutters" Denney

Ok, Rick. The lighter fluid trick worked a charm. All speeds working perfect. One second sounds a little fast but 1/2 and above sound spot on. The only thing is the shutter speed ring got REAL stiff. I tried rubbing some white Lithium grease around the ring, and it did not seem to smooth it out. It feels like something is dying for some lube in there.

Chris

[rdenney]

Ok, Rick. The lighter fluid trick worked a charm. All speeds working perfect. One second sounds a little fast but 1/2 and above sound spot on. The only thing is the shutter speed ring got REAL stiff. I tried rubbing some white Lithium grease around the ring, and it did not seem to smooth it out. It feels like something is dying for some lube in there.

Chris

Well, now you know that it's just a matter of gummy lubricant or dirt, and not an internal mechanical failure (which were pretty rare on those anyway). That makes the shutter fully salvageable and worth the effort to bring it back.

As I recall the innards of those shutters, you can remove the front plate, and the speed ring is just a plate with cam slots for pins that do not fly away when it is lifted away. That will give you access to the inside for applying lubrication as necessary. Just make sure the pins are in their slots when you replace that speed ring. It's an easy shutter to get into compared to some, and that much does not require taking the gear trains or linkages apart.

Rick "thinking the slow speeds may not be right until it is fully disassembled and cleaned--a tougher task" Denney

[John Kasaian]

Try shooting stopping down to f/45

[Steve Goldstein]

... The f 8 super wides covered 103 degrees, were excellent (WF Caltar, Acugon, and I can't remember at this time the BBOI name)...
Lynn

Was that the Acu-Veriwide? I have one. Curiously, it's in a Copal 1 shutter, whereas I believe the WF Caltar and Acugon both came in #0 shutters (Seiko and/or Copal).

[Lynn Jones]

Yes, Steve, I just picked up a piece of a veriwide camera this morning. The camera was designed by my late friend Jack Callahan, engineer and WWII fighter pilot, he owned BBOI and B&J, I was VP of both at one time. Jack's first design was manufactured for Burleigh Brooks from a company in switzerland, the later model was made from the Graflex medium format camera bodies. Jack's son Dan (my good friend) was a Rhodes scolar, WFL football player, Brooks Graduate, regional manager of BBOI/B&J, later president of Brandes/Kalt/Etna. Semi Retired now.

Lynn

[kq6up]

I will send it in to get a pro job on it, but now that it works decently. I am going to wait until I get another lens to stand in until that one get's fixed.

Chris