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thefilmguy2009
14-Apr-2011, 08:16
Hi,

I've checked over the threads and haven't been able to find a simple answer to my issue. I just obtained a cambo sc with 5 film holders. Now, my question is, what do I need to get up and running lens-wise. I'm stuck on being able to match up a lens with a lens board. Totally dumbfounded by the copal sizes and holes thing (sorry if I'm slow on the uptake)

I'm looking for a starter wide angle lens to use for urban and rural landscape photography. I found a 90 F4.5 CAMBONAR WITH HORSEMAN BOARD (MEGAVISION T2/T32) lens on keh.com but have no idea what lens board I would need with it and what else I would need. The lens goes for 139.00 so that gives you an idea of my budget. I've worked with medium format and I'm just trying large format out so I don't want to dive into a financial pit yet.

So, sorry for the basic question. I did look through the various beginner guides but just haven't been able to figure it out.

Thanks for any help.

thefilmguy2009
14-Apr-2011, 08:33
Sorry, just realized I should have posted this in the lens section.

domaz
14-Apr-2011, 09:52
Whoa stop right there. The Megavision was a really early digital scanning back camera I believe. You will not get a working shutter with that item. You are better off looking for an older Super Angulon with a working shutter. In KEH lingo it will say something like 90mm Super Angluon f/8 Synchro-Compur (or Compur or Copal). The hole size is just the size in mm of the board. So if your camera takes XX size lensboards don't get a lens that is too big for your camera.

awldune
14-Apr-2011, 14:09
As domaz said, KEH listings will include the shutter type and mounting size:

For example:

90 F5.6 SUPER ANGULON MC COPAL BULB, TIME (4X5)(35 MOUNT), LARGE FORMAT VIEW LENS

"35 mount" indicates you need a board with a 35mm hole (Copal #0, I think)

These things are somewhat inexact. The board you would want for this would be:
CAMBO 34 HOLE LENS BOARD

Or you could look on Ebay and elsewhere for a #0 board.

An extra complication here is that you will likely need a recessed board to use a 90mm on the Cambo SC. I do on my SCII.

So then you would want CAMBO SC 34 HOLE RECESSED LENS BOARD

awldune
14-Apr-2011, 14:15
In all, you might be happier with a 135mm. It will feel wider than the "35mm equivalent" numbers will suggest.

domaz
14-Apr-2011, 15:14
I agree somehow 90mm on Large Format seems "really wide" even though it is the supposed 28mm equivalent in 35mm format. Something about seeing that big image in the ground glass maybe.

rdenney
14-Apr-2011, 19:17
An extra complication here is that you will likely need a recessed board to use a 90mm on the Cambo SC. I do on my SCII

I used to use a recessed lens board with a 90/5.6 Super Angulon on my Cambo, but could not tolerate digging down into that recess to make adjustments. And tilting the lens board also causes a shift. I just can't stand recessed boards.

But with my Cambo, the bag bellows made it unnecessary to use the recessed board.

Shorter than 90, though, was a problem, and why I switched to Sinar ultimately.

90 has alway seemed to me more like 24 (in 35mm format), which is generally one of my favorite focal lengths in small format. I like my 90 on the view camera with 4x5 film, but I probably use the 121 as often.

Rick "bag bellows are cheap for this camera" Denney

thefilmguy2009
15-Apr-2011, 06:48
Thanks for the great advice. I'm really going to have to think about what to do next with the camera. I'm a bit torn because I was hoping to be able to go wider than a 24mm equivalent, but I guess I should have done my research first. The cambo was just a great deal on CL. I think it may end up on feebay and I'll be back on the search.

rdenney
15-Apr-2011, 07:04
Thanks for the great advice. I'm really going to have to think about what to do next with the camera. I'm a bit torn because I was hoping to be able to go wider than a 24mm equivalent, but I guess I should have done my research first. The cambo was just a great deal on CL. I think it may end up on feebay and I'll be back on the search.

That camera will lose no value if you use it a bit first. Put a 90 on it and try it out. The lens will happily mount on some other camera if you go that way, and a lens board and bag bellows will add to what you have to sell. Everything else you buy--film holders, tripod heads, focusing cloths, meters--all that will stay with you even if the camera departs. Buying a camera is not a marriage--you don't have to abstain until the right one comes along, and it won't throw dishes at you if you break up with it. The SC is a good camera for many things, and you already own it. What you learn using it will make your next selection far easier.

Rick "a self-described wide-angle freak who still used a Cambo for many, many years" Denney

thefilmguy2009
15-Apr-2011, 07:50
Thanks for the advice. Would this one work:

http://www.keh.com/camera/Large-Format-Fixed-Focal-Length-Lenses/1/sku-LF06999015578N?r=FE


With this cambo board:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cambo-4x5-lens-board-/110674152033?pt=US_Lens_Boards&hash=item19c4b18a61#ht_500wt_1156

awldune
15-Apr-2011, 08:17
That lens does not have a shutter, which may or may not be a problem for you.

From what I understand, the aperture diaphragm is awkward to use when not on a Sinar camera. No idea whether that 82mm board will accept the DB mount lens.

If you are set on using wide angle on 4x5, on a budget, you might be best off selling the Cambo and getting a different camera. KEH has a Sinar F+ for $235, which would be much better suited to wide angle. It's all in the way the standards are put together. There is also a Sinar A1 for $225, don't know what the difference between those models is.

(edit: this is not to imply you can use the DB mount lens on the F+ I mentioned... I think you need a Sinar shutter accessory to use that type of lens.)

rdenney
15-Apr-2011, 08:57
Thanks for the advice. Would this one work:

http://www.keh.com/camera/Large-Format-Fixed-Focal-Length-Lenses/1/sku-LF06999015578N?r=FE


With this cambo board:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cambo-4x5-lens-board-/110674152033?pt=US_Lens_Boards&hash=item19c4b18a61#ht_500wt_1156

No, and no. As I mentioned before, the lens is in the DB mount, which does not include a shutter and is designed to work only with the Sinar shutter system. You'd have to mount the lens into a shutter, which would cost you more than buying a lens already in a shutter. And the hole in the lens board is for a much larger shutter or barrel lens that mounts using a flange rather than a retaining ring.

Try this lens:

http://www.keh.com/camera/Large-Format-Fixed-Focal-Length-Lenses/1/sku-LF06999117896N?r=FE

or this lens:

http://www.keh.com/camera/Large-Format-Fixed-Focal-Length-Lenses/1/sku-LF069990984990?r=FE

using this lens board:

http://www.keh.com/camera/Large-Format-Lens-Boards/1/sku-LF509991043260?r=FE

or this board:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Calumet-Cambo-Lens-Board-copalL-0-hole-/250803554181?pt=US_Lens_Boards&hash=item3a650e8785

Both of the lenses are in shutters (the Caltar in a "press" shutter, which is fine). Both of the shutters are No. 0 shutters, requiring about a 34mm hole in the lens board. Both of the boards have that size hole. They are a bit more expensive, but they have shutters. Both lenses will be excellent performers, and KEH has a return policy if they aren't.

To get the most out of the lens, you'll also need a bag bellows. The ones they show on KEH don't look right to me--call them to confirm it will work on an SC. I don't see any on ebay right now, but that seems unusual--they do appear frequently enough, and for a whale of a lot less than what I paid Calumet for a new one. But you can use the lens with limited movements even with the standard bellows. Tilting and swinging will be easier than shifting, which might bind the bellows and cause a wrinkle. You'll see when you put it together. Short lenses like the 90 impose a few more mechanical demands on the camera.

Rick "wondering if you live near another LF photographer who can show you the ropes" Denney

thefilmguy2009
15-Apr-2011, 09:00
Thanks for the help!

Yes, I should see if there are some LF photogs nearby as I am definitely slow on the uptake with LF.

awldune
15-Apr-2011, 13:31
If you do stick with the Cambo for wide angle, you will find that the 20'' rail gets in your way a lot.

I made a custom short rail out of 25mm aluminum bar stock, and have an extra if you'd be interested. I'll let you have it if you're in the US and will pay $5 shipping.

thefilmguy2009
15-Apr-2011, 16:19
awldune, thanks so much for the offer. right now I'm weighing the options. I can't get the scratch together for lens right away. I'll let you know if I find a 90 within my price range.

awldune
15-Apr-2011, 18:44
IMHO the KEH prices on LF lenses are on the steep side at the moment. Sometimes you will get lucky with a BGN lens.

On Ebay, you might grab an Angulon 90/6.8 for ~$120, which doesn't have much coverage for movements but would get you started. You should be able to get *something* for under $250. I found a 65/8 Super-Angulon less than a year ago for around $200. That's another lens that doesn't have a ton of room for movements though.

edit: You DEFINITELY are not using a 65mm on the Cambo.

rdenney
15-Apr-2011, 18:53
awldune, thanks so much for the offer. right now I'm weighing the options. I can't get the scratch together for lens right away. I'll let you know if I find a 90 within my price range.

You might stay on the lookout for a press-camera 90. They were not intended to provide movements and they barely cover the 4x5 format, but that will save you from having to worry about the bag bellows. Two examples of these are the Schneider Angulon and the Wollensak Wide-Field Raptar (also known as the Graflex Wide-Field Optar). Neither will be as sharp as a Super Angulon or a Grandagon in the corners, and you'll have to stop them down at least to f/22. But they will make great pictures. They tend to be cheap--often well under $200.

Another option is to start getting some experience with a normal lens, and save the short lens for later. 135-180mm lenses can be quite inexpensive if you keep an eye out. I paid $160 for a 180/5.6 Schneider Symmar Convertible, and $200 for a Sinaron N (Rodenstock Sironar) 210/5.6 that is multicoated.

Something like this:

http://www.keh.com/camera/Large-Format-Fixed-Focal-Length-Lenses/1/sku-LF060000610310?r=FE

KEH's selection of lenses in the 150 range is rather limited at the moment--you have to keep checking.

I know what you are going through, though. I used a Wide-Field Optar for a long time because I could not afford a Super Angulon. I finally bought the 90/5.6 Super Angulon--probably for four times what a used one costs now in real dollars. It was worth the wait. But sometimes you just have to be patient if you are looking for popular stuff on a tight budget. It does come up, and then when does you have to jump at it. Being prepared to jump takes a little experience, though, so put something on that camera and go make photographs.

Rick "tossing out ideas" Denney

thefilmguy2009
15-Apr-2011, 20:10
I'm checking ebay now and have a bid out on a Schneider Super Angulon 90mm 8.0 4x5 lens in Copal 0 with a small chip toward the outside. If I can get it cheap enough then I'm in business. Otherwise, I'll take the advice and shoot for a more regular lens in my price range. It's more of a hunt now so I'm not selling the cambo soon.

Shadowtracker
15-Apr-2011, 22:45
The best camera out there, is the one in your hands - learn something about LF by using the one you have. You might - or in my case, will - make mistakes - it's part of the learning curve, but it doesn't have to be expensive if you don't have the money. Just use what you have, learn how to get the best out of it that you can. Have fun with it. I put money into lenses and film for the most part. I have one new 4x5 on the way, 1 very nice, used camera that I got at a good price, one used but in good condition field camera and a beat to hell 8 x 10 that needs a total re-working to be useable. But, I also have lenses for all of them, and I can transfer lenses pretty much as I like - good glass is, well, good to have. But like rdenny said, it's not a marriage, and it will throw some curves at you, but not dishes if you decide to sell.

Marc B.
16-Apr-2011, 17:34
Here is a (link) chart detailing the hole sizes required for most of the shutters you will encounter.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lensboard_hole_sizes.html

thefilmguy2009
18-Apr-2011, 13:24
Gentlemen,

No luck on the notorious auction site, but I did find this:

http://www.keh.com/camera/As-Is-Fixed-Focal-Length-Lenses/1/sku-AI06999105611G?r=FE

I've had good luck with keh's as is lenses. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Gem Singer
18-Apr-2011, 14:22
KEH states that the shutter is definitely not working properly. Sounds like it will take more than a CLA to put it back into working condition.

That shutter might end up costing more to repair, or replace, than choosing a better quality lens and shutter to begin with.

awldune
18-Apr-2011, 14:22
Not a bad buy to get you going. It says "SPEEDS OFF" which might imply that bulb and time work.

If you put naptha (Zippo lighter fluid) in the shutter it will often speed up with a little exercise.

Worth a shot IMHO. If the shutter is totally junk, you could swap the optics into another #1 shutter, like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/COPAL-no-1-shutter-w-Tominon-4-5-75mm-lens-4x5-WORKS-/310311660237

thefilmguy2009
19-Apr-2011, 14:10
and it sold right as I was buying it, nice. I'll have to take the patience route.