New to the Forum; New to a Crown Graphic; and in need of advice.

[Rob Klurfield]

Hello. I'm new to LFP and the new owner of a Crown Graphic. Lots to learn.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5188/5614943129_997e5d719d_z.jpg

My camera seems to have two problems. One is that it's missing the piece that enables the body-mounted shutter release to actuate the lens board mounted release. Can anyone give me a suggestion about where I might be able to find this piece or who can do a repair.

The second issue is bigger deal to me. I intentionally bought a top-mounted rangefinder Crown with the intention of using it at least part of the time to do some hand-held shooting. My camera seems to have a non-functioning optical rangefinder. The focus patch circle does not move when I adjust focus using the knobs and rack. I have not yet tried the light beam rangefinder, but I assume it's also not working. I am all thumbs and am not interested in opening up the rangefinder and dismantling it myself. If it's a simple repair, I'll try it, but I'm not equipped to tear it down myself and rebuild it.

SO, if any of you experienced hands, old pros and otherwise well-informed Crown Graphic folks have any suggestions, including the name of a good and inexpensive repair person, I'd be much obliged. Some folks at RFF have suggested that my camera is missing a cam, but I suspect the problem is more complicated. Rather than guessing, I figured I'd come to the source. I'm in NJ and understand that Essex Camera might still work on Graflex cameras.

The fellow from whom I bought this on eBay seems to have lots of integrity as he's offered to take it back (and even pay the freight both ways). However, as the camera appears to be very clean apart from these two issues, I'd hope I can get it working for not too much extra money.

I do plan to use the ground glass and a loupe for some of my shooting, but I'd be totally bummed out if I found I couldn't get the rangefinder to work at all.

FYI, the lens is a 135/4.7 Optar.

Thanks!

[john biskupski]

Can't help with repair people, but two good sources for Graphic parts are Mid West Photo and Igor's Cameras, worth speaking to. It seems you're missing the linkage arm to activate the front lens shutter. Not the end of the world if it's missing, just use a cable release. For the rangefinder, you really have to determine whether the (right) cam is in the camera. They are specific to each lens focal length. You do this by extending out the front standard and opening the flap under the top rangefinder. Take a good look through the pages on the Graflex.org site covering your camera to help you, and check out their forum about changing cams. Did your vendor warrant that the rangefinder works with that (very common, and nice) lens? If so, that's implying that the right cam is in place. You can buy replacements, not cheap, c. $50 up I believe, or make your own if you can get a template. It's a fun and very reliable camera, so enjoy it.

[grahamcase]

Before someone else jumps in to tell you, I can suggest an even better place to ask (though, I'm brand new but recognize the members here to be generous and knowledgeable!):

Check out the Graflex forum (http://www.graflex.org/), though the site isn't working for me just at the moment. They are super knowledgeable in all things Graflex. If some there can't answer your questions, you'd be hard pressed to find someone else who can!

Good luck! The Crown Graphics are great and fun cameras.

[Bill_1856]

The rangefinder is probably stuck because the lubricating oil has thickened. Sometimes repetative working the lever (on the left side of the focusing track) will free it up, but you're probably going to need a CLA by a competent old-time repair person who is familiar with the camera.

[Dan Fromm]

If the cable that runs from the body shutter release to the front standard is there, all you're missing is the shutter actuating paddle. If the cable isn't there, well, then you're missing everything. The paddle is shutter-specific and for it to work the shutter has to be oriented "just so." I think body shutter release is a useless nuisance, have removed the cable etc. from my Graphics.

Since www.graflex.org is down, I'll tell you that the Graphic/Graflex repairman of choice is Fred Lustig of Reno, NV. He has the parts you need.

Fred doesn't have a web presence and if he has e-mail his e-mail address isn't available. He's in the Reno 'phone book, call him during business hours. And act promptly, he's elderly.

[Frank Petronio]

Hi Rob ;-) Rob is one of those Leica-rangefinder types and a fine photographer....

Also, a lot of general repair people can work on Graphics with their eyes closed, although Fred has the most old parts. The top rangefinder depends on the cam, the side rangefinders are adjustable. But don't expect your Leica-quality rangefinder experience, they are dim and crappy in comparison.

Most people selling Graphics are or feign ignorance of the rangefinder and chances are the cam was stolen or set in place wrong or something like that. The Crown's RF cam is located underneath the top rangefinder -- turn the camera upside down and "look inside the box" and there will be a black metal hinged door that you can open to access the tiny, not-very-obvious cam and the track it rides. The existing directions and photos of this online are lousy, it is so much better if you can track down somebody to show you how this all works in person. I still find it a bit of VooDoo.

That side release is nice for handheld work if you can get it to be smooth. If it is sticky I hate to trust it.

[Jim Jones]

This from Graflex.com: the cam number for for 133.5mm, no. 5; for 135mm, no. 6; and for 136.4, no. 7. Anyone seriously interested in Speed Graphic cameas should have a copy of Graphic Graflex Photography by Morgan and Lester in earlier editions and by Morgan and Morgan in later editions. The 11th edition of 1958 may be the first to include the top rangefinder model.

[BrianShaw]

... competent old-time repair person who is familiar with the camera.

In addition to Fred Lustig, another competent Graflex/Graphic repair person is Steve Choi at Steve's Camera Repair in Culver City CA. He has a web presence and is old (meaning "adult" & "mature"), but not frail or elderly.

[LF4Fun]

In addition to Fred Lustig, another competent Graflex/Graphic repair person is Steve Choi at Steve's Camera Repair in Culver City CA. He has a web presence and is old (meaning "adult" & "mature"), but not frail or elderly.

Steve & Bill are trustworthy and competent repair persons.
:)

[Rob Klurfield]

LOL. If Frank thinks the guts inside of the rangefinder are voodoo, then I'll look but not touch. With ten thumbs and crappy eyesight, I'd probably just make things worse. The gunked up lubricant or missing/maladjusted cam are pretty good guesses. I knew you'd find my post and give a good response. I may make a visit to Essex Camera next week.

Everyone, thanks for all the good tips. I should have some film from Freestyle on Saturday (50 sheets of el cheapo Arista 100 to get my feet wet) and some film holders later today. It will be nice to see my thumb prints on some larger negatives for a change of pace.

Will a standard cable release work? Hoping I don't need anything with special thread sizes or anything weird.


Hi Rob ;-) Rob is one of those Leica-rangefinder types and a fine photographer....

Also, a lot of general repair people can work on Graphics with their eyes closed, although Fred has the most old parts. The top rangefinder depends on the cam, the side rangefinders are adjustable. But don't expect your Leica-quality rangefinder experience, they are dim and crappy in comparison.

Most people selling Graphics are or feign ignorance of the rangefinder and chances are the cam was stolen or set in place wrong or something like that. The Crown's RF cam is located underneath the top rangefinder -- turn the camera upside down and "look inside the box" and there will be a black metal hinged door that you can open to access the tiny, not-very-obvious cam and the track it rides. The existing directions and photos of this online are lousy, it is so much better if you can track down somebody to show you how this all works in person. I still find it a bit of VooDoo.

That side release is nice for handheld work if you can get it to be smooth. If it is sticky I hate to trust it.

[Frank Petronio]

Yeah Essex should know what they are doing; normal cable release, you need an old bi-pole flash sync (from Paramount, new) to use flash.

[Rob Klurfield]

Frank, you're still the man. (FYI, I'm still thinking about a print.)

[Rob Klurfield]

John, thanks for the suggestions. I've dealt with Igor before; nice guy.

The fellow from whom I bought this camera is a private party and didn't provide a warranty. However, he seems to have plenty of integrity, offering to take the camera back and even cover shipping both ways. He seems to be someone, like me at this stage, who bought this on a whim, used it and then put aside. So, I honestly don't think he had much more clue than I do about what he owned and how to use it to its best advantage. I may ask if he'd reimburse me a portion of any reasonable repair costs.


My next question for him is if he wants to sell the M3 and Dual Range Summicron he claims was sitting on a shelf in his closet next the Crown Graphic.;) Though my wife will kill me if another box shows up in our mailbox anytime soon.


Can't help with repair people, but two good sources for Graphic parts are Mid West Photo and Igor's Cameras, worth speaking to. It seems you're missing the linkage arm to activate the front lens shutter. Not the end of the world if it's missing, just use a cable release. For the rangefinder, you really have to determine whether the (right) cam is in the camera. They are specific to each lens focal length. You do this by extending out the front standard and opening the flap under the top rangefinder. Take a good look through the pages on the Graflex.org site covering your camera to help you, and check out their forum about changing cams. Did your vendor warrant that the rangefinder works with that (very common, and nice) lens? If so, that's implying that the right cam is in place. You can buy replacements, not cheap, c. $50 up I believe, or make your own if you can get a template. It's a fun and very reliable camera, so enjoy it.

[Jim Jones]

. . . My next question for him is if he wants to sell the M3 and Dual Range Summicron he claims was sitting on a shelf in his closet next the Crown Graphic.;) Though my wife will kill me if another box shows up in our mailbox anytime soon.

Go for it! It's a great camera and a much smaller box, so she won't mind so much.

[rdenney]

Those cams were meant to be easily interchangeable by the user--changing them (or at least checking for its presence) shouldn't be too challenging even if your hands are full of thumbs. The only tricky part is realizing where that hinged door is.

If the cam is not there, then that would explain the problem. That's the first place to look. But if it is missing, then you'll need to find one, and I'm finding they do not grow on trees.

As far as the body shutter release goes, there is a bowden cable that runs from the side of the inner body to a fixture on the side of the front standard. That fixture includes a connection for the cable, a vertical rod that runs in a couple of eyelets on the standard, and an actuator that attaches to the other end of the rod. You appear to be missing the cable and the actuator. Lots of folks are like Dan and don't like the body release, and that actuator gets in the way of many lenses. Sometimes, they may just cut out the stuff they don't want, which makes it more difficult to repair if you do want it. In the end, though, I'd rather just hang a cable release off the lens, and attach it to the side of the camera using a cable clamp or something similar.

I never found the body release to really be in the right place, and the actuator is incompatible with the Ilex No. 4 shutter in which my 8-1/2" Paragon is mounted. And forget finding cams for many interesting lenses.

I ended up adding an old Kalart rangefinder to my top-rangefinder Speed. I still need to attach the actuator arm to the focus track, and then calibrate it for the Ilex. My rop rangefinder is already cammed for the 127mm Optar provided with the camera, and it's accurate enough.

Your lens board also has the solenoid release that was used in conjunction with the flash gun. The batteries in the flash would actuate the shutter release in time with the flash. You still needed the flash sync cable. I certainly have no interest in using a flash gun that takes bulbs, so I removed that solenoid actuator, and covered the two holes with black photo tape. That will make it easier to get your finger on the shutter release, too.

Rick "who set aside this project temporarily but will get back to it this year" Denney

[Rob Klurfield]

Hi Rick. Thanks for the tips. I opened the rangefinder housing and confirmed that the cam is intact. However, nothing in the housing moves at all.

I can live with a cable release.


Those cams were meant to be easily interchangeable by the user--changing them (or at least checking for its presence) shouldn't be too challenging even if your hands are full of thumbs. The only tricky part is realizing where that hinged door is.

If the cam is not there, then that would explain the problem. That's the first place to look. But if it is missing, then you'll need to find one, and I'm finding they do not grow on trees.

As far as the body shutter release goes, there is a bowden cable that runs from the side of the inner body to a fixture on the side of the front standard. That fixture includes a connection for the cable, a vertical rod that runs in a couple of eyelets on the standard, and an actuator that attaches to the other end of the rod. You appear to be missing the cable and the actuator. Lots of folks are like Dan and don't like the body release, and that actuator gets in the way of many lenses. Sometimes, they may just cut out the stuff they don't want, which makes it more difficult to repair if you do want it. In the end, though, I'd rather just hang a cable release off the lens, and attach it to the side of the camera using a cable clamp or something similar.

I never found the body release to really be in the right place, and the actuator is incompatible with the Ilex No. 4 shutter in which my 8-1/2" Paragon is mounted. And forget finding cams for many interesting lenses.

I ended up adding an old Kalart rangefinder to my top-rangefinder Speed. I still need to attach the actuator arm to the focus track, and then calibrate it for the Ilex. My rop rangefinder is already cammed for the 127mm Optar provided with the camera, and it's accurate enough.

Your lens board also has the solenoid release that was used in conjunction with the flash gun. The batteries in the flash would actuate the shutter release in time with the flash. You still needed the flash sync cable. I certainly have no interest in using a flash gun that takes bulbs, so I removed that solenoid actuator, and covered the two holes with black photo tape. That will make it easier to get your finger on the shutter release, too.

Rick "who set aside this project temporarily but will get back to it this year" Denney

[Oren Grad]

I ended up adding an old Kalart rangefinder to my top-rangefinder Speed. I still need to attach the actuator arm to the focus track, and then calibrate it for the Ilex. My rop rangefinder is already cammed for the 127mm Optar provided with the camera, and it's accurate enough.

Two rangefinders on the camera? If and when you get it done, I'd be really curious to see what it looks like.

[rdenney]

Two rangefinders on the camera? If and when you get it done, I'd be really curious to see what it looks like.

I'll show a picture. But just imagine taking a top-rangefinder speed, and attaching a Kalart on the side. That's what it looks like. I will calibrate the Kalart for the 8-1/2" Paragon, but the actuator lever is from a quarter-plate Speed, and not long enough for the 4x5. I have a box o'parts that I think includes the correct actuator. Then, I need to thread some holes in the focus rail to attach the actuator fitment. And then the nasty task of calibrating the Kalart.

This will be a three-lens camera: I have a 90mm Optar WA, for which I will use the ground glass until I can find or make a focus scale for it. And a 127mm Optar, which is already calibrated to the top rangefinder. And the 8-1/2". I will probably use it mostly with Fujiroid.

Rick "or for experimenting with barrel lenses" Denney

[Jim Jones]

. . . I have a box o'parts that I think includes the correct actuator. . . . Rick "or for experimenting with barrel lenses" Denney

So do I, if you can't find yours. You're welcome to it if you need it. My SG parts are well buried under many years accumulation of camera and other gear, though.

[rdenney]

So do I, if you can't find yours. You're welcome to it if you need it. My SG parts are well buried under many years accumulation of camera and other gear, though.

I had bought a Kalart from an Anniversary model, but the actuator lever and the follower that mounts to the focus rail are different than on the Pacemaker series. Those are the two parts I need--and the screws that hold the follower to the focus rail.

I'll put out a general call, too.

Rick "who just took a look at it again" Denney

[Bill_1856]

Those cams were meant to be easily interchangeable by the user--changing them (or at least checking for its presence) shouldn't be too challenging even if your hands are full of thumbs.

HA!!! Interchangable, yes. Easily -- no way!

[Frank Petronio]

I find it easier to just buy another Crown instead of mucking around trying to fixing them. You can always remove the rangefinder crap and sell them as "ground glass only" models.

[Rob Klurfield]

I shot a sheet ... several sheets shot [say that four times fast]....
anyway, I screwed up three of the first four (dummy, remember to CLOSE the shutter before withdrawing the dark slide, etc.). One of the four is drying and probably out of focus and is suffering some clumps of unfixed silver probably due to using a substandard brand of hair ties (or more likely, operator error, me of the ten-thumbed hands) for my first attempt at the taco method. Anyway, this is easier than I expected. First observation is that my 30-year old light-weight Gitzo is probably not steady enough for anything close and requiring perfect focus. Inserting the film holders on the portraits I shot was enough jostling to upset the focus. So, with a little practice, I'm sure I'll get the hang of this. Thanks folks for the encouragement.

Here's proof that I'm only partially incompetent...
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5148/5624560153_a77c7f26db.jpg

Maybe with some better weather (it's pouring here today) and good light tomorrow I can embarrass myself slightly less on my next attempt.

[Rob Klurfield]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5242/5687789648_651f687977_z.jpg

arista 100 edu 4X5. the streak was the result of doing the taco method inside out, causing the offending hair tie to block the chemicals for reaching my emulsion (re-fixed and it did get better, but the damage was done). oops. if I learn to process this stuff right, how to focus, set a decent exposure and compose for LF, I'll be all set. Miles to go yet. rather challenging now.

broken crown graphic, fungus-infected optar 135/4.5, non-working RF, screwed up focus rack yoke (just got a new-old stock replacement in the mail today), but look there's a readable image here. hurray. cause for optimism that I can actually make pictures with this setup even with the camera needing work and the shooter even more.

Frank Petronio and everyone else who offered encouragement at trying this, thanks. I may get hooked soon.

[al olson]

Rob,

From your photo it appears that the solenoid is not connected electrically. The solenoid was used by press photographers who usually relied on flash. The flash unit had a button up near the reflector and it was cabled to the solenoid. The button on the flash was very convenient because the photographer used the flash for a handle as well.

Unless your solenoid has an electrical connection to a release on the camera, I would recommend removing it and plugging the hole in the lens board. It is not likely to be usable unless you intend to reconstruct the historical configuration.

From your photo, I cannot see a location for screwing the cable release, but a cable release would be more suitable these days for tripping the shutter.

A note about the rangefinder cam. Frank has explained the essentials. It is much easier, however, to change the cams if you extend the bed forward, past the point where it engages the metal strip connected to the rangefinder.

Good luck, it looks like a very nice camera.