Best 90mm lens...

[Alessandro V.]

Hello!

Lately I have really felt the need for buying a 90mm lens (as it would be only my second lens) but, despite all my research online, it has not be easy to find some information.

I could not get much information, especially about the Schneider Super Angulon 90mm, which, I think, could be an option. I have seen that the SA 90mm comes in two variation f/8 and f/5,6: apart from the aperture and weight is there any other difference!? Will they both cover 8x10 too!? (I have a 4x5 but you never know...)
Personally I am looking for the sharpest lens possible and I don't care about it's weight.

Do you have any suggestions/advices!?

Thank you very much!

[E. von Hoegh]

The 90mm SA will not cover 8x10 in any iteration.
There is info available on the home page of this site about coverage and etc. of various lenses. Any modern lens you are likely to find will give more than adequate sharpness.

[Lachlan 717]

Here are 2 sites that you should check for the requested information:

http://www.ebonycamera.com/articles/lenses.html

http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/testing.html#

You'll find your answers in them.

[Alessandro V.]

Thank you!

But in the secon link how do I see the tests?
I only see a list of lenses...

Nobody has any suggestions?!
I am a bit lost, the more I look around the more lens I find but I can't find any information about the differences...

Thank you

[Bob Salomon]

Assuming that you are looking for a 90mm lens for film and not for digital this link will give you the MTF, distortion, color curves for the Rodenstock lenses including the 90mm 4.5 Grandagon N and the 90mm 6.8 Grandagon N.

Current Schneider lenses are the 90mm 5.6 Super Angulon XL and the 90mm 6.8 Super Angulon. The 90mm f8 is no longer in their line.

[Ari]

Consider also the Nikkor f4.5; a worthy piece of glass at a competitive price.

[Leigh]

The full diagonal of an 8x10 film is about 325mm, so that's the minimum IC required for full coverage with no movements.

Of the four 90mm lenses in my database, the Super Angulon XL 90/5.6 has the largest image circle at 259mm.

The Fujinon SWD 90/5.6 is 236mm
The Nikkor SW 90/4.5 is 235mm (at f/16)
The Nikkor SW 90/8 is 235mm

All ICs are at f/22 unless otherwise noted.

The IC at viewing aperture (wide open) will be smaller. For example, the wide open IC for both Nikkors is 154mm, slightly smaller than 4x5 coverage.

HTH

- Leigh

[Brian Ellis]

I think the lack of responses is due to the fact that there is no "best" 90mm lens. Any used lens you buy from one of the "Big Four" (Schneider, Rodenstock, Fuji or Nikon) is going to be fine from an image quality standpoint as long as the lens and shutter are in good condition. If you're thinking of buying new then you can eliminate Nikon. Just buy whichever one seems to fit your needs best in terms of size, weight, shutter brand and condition if used, price, etc. All other things being equal, which they seldom are, a wider maximum aperture will be better because it will be easier to compose and focus.

This isn't something on which you need to spend days poring over MTF charts and stat sheets. Modern large format lenses from any of the Big Four are better lenses than most of us are photographers.

[Gem Singer]

The Rodenstock f4.5 Grandagon-N is hard to beat for speed, the size of the lens, and its image circle.

[Noah A]

As others have said I think any of the current 90mm lenses will offer good quality, though there may be subtle differences.

I use a Rodenstock f/4.5 Grandagon-N and it has lots of coverage and is very sharp. I don't use a 90 very often since I really prefer the 115/120 focal length, but when I need the wider view the Grandagon is a great lens.

The fast f/4.5 aperture makes it slightly brighter for composing, though for shooting it makes little difference since you probably won't shoot wide open with 4x5.

The faster lenses often offer more coverage than the slower ones, with some exceptions (like the Nikon 90/8). The faster lenses are big and somewhat heavy, though personally it doesn't bother me.

I got my 90 Grandagon on Ebay for well under half of the current street price of a new lens, so if size isn't a problem I'd say it is a good choice.

[Leigh]

The Rodenstock f4.5 Grandagon-N is hard to beat for speed, the size of the lens, and its image circle.
The 90mm/4.5 Grandagon-N has the largest IC of any lens in that product line, and is the only one rated to cover 5x7, but the IC is only 236mm.

This would certainly be an excellent choice for 4x5.

- Leigh

[John Kasaian]

Click on LF Homepage on the blue banner at the top of this page and follow the trail to many very informative articles and tables on lenses. Everything you need to know is in there.

[Frank Petronio]

To some people who value compact size and light weight, a 50-year old Linhof-selected 90/6.8 Schneider Angulon (not a "Super") is the best lens. Others, including myself, think the Rodenstock 90/4.5 Grandagon-N is the best 90mm that isn't too large, others prefer the smaller, more moderate in-between size of the 90/6.8 Grandagon-N (or the Schneider/Fuji/Nikon varieties). And there is a Schneider 90/5.6 Super Angulon XL that is larger than all, plus some lenses slightly wider or longer (80-100mm).

[pdmoylan]

The only way you are going to know which of the aforementioned lenses is the sharpest is to test them at the apertures and magnifications you intend to use. Some lenses fall apart after F22, others have a gentle decline (look at LF Tests for details), while others are sharpest at F11. The same make/model may show variability in sharpness by aperture (Nikon 300mm F9). Acutenance is the appearance of sharpness which would include contrast levels. My Nikkor 90mm F8 and 210mm lenses are contrasty but may not resolve quite the level of their Rodenstock brethren. The distinguishing factor I found with different lenses was not so much resolution or contrast, but subtle color differences. Flare is another issue but is moderated by multicoating.

Joseph Holmes felt the 90mm F4.5 Nikkor the sharpest lens he ever used, Joe Cornish another well know user.

[Joshua Dunn]

I have three 90mm lenses and one old brass one I think that is right around 90mm. All three have different applications.

The Schneider 90mm Super Angulon XL f/5.6 has an image circle of 260mm. It has the largest coverage of any 90mm lens I have ever heard of. It is a large lens (the front lens element is about 4” across) and is difficult to use filters with. I usually use a filter holder for gel filters to put on the rear element. It has greater light fall off so I almost always use a center filter (expensive). This lens is amazingly sharp.

The Schneider 90mm Super Angulon f/8 an image circle of 216mm. Plenty of coverage for most 4x5 applications. Its small and light and the smaller aperture of f/8 usually is not a hindrance. The light fall off is significantly less than the Super Angulon XL and I rarely use a center filter. These usually sell for a very reasonable price given the sharpness and coverage of this lens.

The Sinar 90mm Sinaron W f/4.5 (made by Rodenstock) has an image circle of 221mm. Probably more coverage than most people will need. It’s smaller than the Super Angulon XL but larger than the Super Angulon. It’s still a large lens and fairly heavy. I don’t have a center filter for this lens but the light fall off is acceptable (granted judging what light fall off is acceptable or not is completely subjective). It’s a great lens for dark interiors or any situation where you need to make critical movements in low light.

Other considerations are the “look” or “feel” of a lens, again totally subjective. Some lenses are tack sharp but you might think it has too much contrast. If you can borrow one or two lenses and try them yourself to gauge there “feel” that would be best. If not than pick a lens by the numbers (size, weight, smallest aperture and of course coverage) and test it out thoroughly. As long as you are happy with it that’s all that matters. If not sell it to someone else and try another one. Most people have a lot of success buying and selling on this form.

[Alessandro V.]

Thank you all for your useful responses!

So far I think I could restrict the decision between the Grandagon and the Super Angulon XL.
The reason for this is because I would need a big amount of movements, therefore a big image circle. Please correct me if I am wrong.
As I was thinking about buying it used on ebay and I have no idea about what could be a fair price, do you have any advices!?

Also, what does it mean:
The rear flange of the Schneider 90mm Super Angulon XL must be removed to allow it to fit through the hole in the front board of 4x5 cameras.

Thank you very much!

[jb7]

There is also the Super Angulon 90mm f/5.6 -

Pre XL, with an image circle of 'only' 235mm, 105º.

It will be significantly less expensive than an XL, I'd say-
and a little bit smaller too-

I've never been able to justify trading up to an XL on this one-
I have the 72mm XL, and there is quite a lot of stretching in the area covered by the extra 5-10 degrees- perhaps something to consider if you plan on using the outer part of the XL image circle-

[Frank Petronio]

The rear flange of the Schneider 90mm Super Angulon XL must be removed to allow it to fit through the hole in the front board of 4x5 cameras.


On some of the larger lenses, a small field camera may not be large enough to contain the rear element. Or sometimes you must remove it in order to mount the lensboard, then rescrew the rear element from the back (remove the camera's back).

Most people who need large camera movements are using larger monorail cameras, like the Sinar, that are big enough to handle such lenses. Most field cameras will not have enough movements to use the lenses effectively anyway, it would be a waste.

[Alessandro V.]

Hello,

I am very sorry for getting backt to this conversation once again.
After having thought a lot about it I came to the conclusion that probably either the Rodenstock Grandagon 90mm f/4.5 or the Nikon Nikkor-SW 90mm f/4.5 could be okay for me.

I was wondering if you had some advices regaring the latter, as I only found information about the f/8 version, and if you could tell me the different between the Grandagon f/4.5 and the f/6.8 version.

One more thing that I cannot track online is what type of shutter this lens has.
I am really sorry, I am new to 4x5 and I don't recognize this type. (I attach an image)

Thank you very much!


Ale

[Lachlan 717]

This is not mounted in a shutter. It is mounted on a Sinar board to fit a camera with a Sinar shutter.

[EdSawyer]

Agreed, sinar db type shutter pictured. The nikon 90 f8 is really in my opinion, the best 90mm available from anyone.

[richard brown]

Fascinating that so many people have so many favourites. At one point, I had three 90mm f8 lenses and I was trying to see which one was the best (re: image circle) on an art pan 6x17 camera. The Super Angulon f8 was sharp center and pretty good on the edges; the nikon f8 was the sharpest at the edges; the fujinon f8 at the edges had the optical qualities of toilet paper! Used them all at f22 .... and kept the nikon lens as it was the best for my application. Your results may vary.... but I do like the nikon glass and the size of it is more comfortable as I age.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

The sharpest possible lens in 90mm will also very likely be the one that you're not having to use with a center filter. (Consider using print film if you've got a lens with a need for one with transparency emulsions).

[Bob Salomon]

Hello,

I am very sorry for getting backt to this conversation once again.
After having thought a lot about it I came to the conclusion that probably either the Rodenstock Grandagon 90mm f/4.5 or the Nikon Nikkor-SW 90mm f/4.5 could be okay for me.

I was wondering if you had some advices regaring the latter, as I only found information about the f/8 version, and if you could tell me the different between the Grandagon f/4.5 and the f/6.8 version.

One more thing that I cannot track online is what type of shutter this lens has.
I am really sorry, I am new to 4x5 and I don't recognize this type. (I attach an image)

Thank you very much!


Ale

Rodenstock lens curves and specs are available on the Rodenstock factory web site here:

http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/en/main/download/professional-photography/

[Helcio J Tagliolatto]

This isn't something on which you need to spend days poring over MTF charts and stat sheets. Modern large format lenses from any of the Big Four are better lenses than most of us are photographers.

Very well put, Brian.
Most amateur photographers adore spend days and nigths talking about MTF curves than photographing.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

No, I see that any number of professionals and aspiring pros are getting into the larger formats for the first time precisely to make enormous gallery prints. Trying to wring the ultimate resolution out of the format can be a legitimate concern for some. Of course, there are many other factors that can affect this besides lens choice, but 90mm happens to be a focal length where differences in lenses can be tremendous (testing ala Perez and Thalmann demonstrates this rather starkly). Simply because one photographer won't see more than 40 lp/mm with their desktop scanner doesn't mean that other photographers won't put a premium on twice that resolution.

[IanG]

The major differances between the two Grandagon's is weight and size, the f4.5 version is 700g compared to 460g. Both cma be found in Copal 0 shutters, the image circle is 236mm for the f4.5 and 221mm for th f6.8.

The MC on these Grandagons is superb, I've been using a 90mm f6.8 90 Grandagon for nearly 25 years (it was secon hand then) and I've never run out of coverage.

Ian

[Alessandro V.]

Hello,

thank you very much for all your answers!

I have found a lens for an interesting price but it has a little scratch (more or less 0,5mm) on the front element.
Do you think this would influence the quality of the lens in a very strong manner?

Thank you very much!


Alessandro

[Bob Salomon]

The major differances between the two Grandagon's is weight and size, the f4.5 version is 700g compared to 460g. Both cma be found in Copal 0 shutters, the image circle is 236mm for the f4.5 and 221mm for th f6.8.

The MC on these Grandagons is superb, I've been using a 90mm f6.8 90 Grandagon for nearly 25 years (it was secon hand then) and I've never run out of coverage.

Ian

Sorry, the 90mm 4.5 Grandagon-N is only supplied in a 1 shutter while the 90mm 6.8 Grandagon-N is only supplied in a 0 shutter. One other difference though; 102° vs 105° angle of illumination. At f22 at infinity that is 221mm vs 236mm circle of illumination. On 4x5 that means 45mm of rise and 40mm of shift vs 54mm and 48mm.

Or on 5x7, 21 and 16mm vs 10 and 7mm.

[E. von Hoegh]

Hello,

thank you very much for all your answers!

I have found a lens for an interesting price but it has a little scratch (more or less 0,5mm) on the front element.
Do you think this would influence the quality of the lens in a very strong manner?

Thank you very much!


Alessandro

No. You'll never know it's there.

I use a 9 1/2" Dagor that I found at a show for $40, in a good Compound shutter. It has a nasty looking 8-9mm gouge right about in the center of the rear surface. I filled the scratch with india ink, you can't tell it's there from the photos. I had another 9 1/2" that I traded off when I saw how well the scratched one worked.:)

[Ivan J. Eberle]

You may notice it with specular light sources or with strong backlighting, as when including the sun in a landscape. (There's a reason beyond merely cosmetics why scratched lenses are not as desirable as unblemished ones)

[E. von Hoegh]

You may notice it with specular light sources or with strong backlighting, as when including the sun in a landscape. (There's a reason beyond merely cosmetics why scratched lenses are not as desirable as unblemished ones)

True. But a 1/2mm scratch is pretty unlikely to show up. Half a millimeter is about twenty thousandths of an inch. Miniscule.

[Kevin Crisp]

The tiny scratch won't do anything except save you money on the purchase.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Yes, a .5 mm scratch is a non-issue if you're scanning to print. Such defects had a bigger impact back in the days of printing Ilfochromes and the like where retouch was a bug-bear.

[Alessandro V.]

Thank you very much!

I've read your answer but the seller told me that the shutter for this grandagon f/4,5 is a compur 0, how is it possible?! Shouldn't it be a copal 1?

Thank you very much!


Ale

[Alessandro V.]

Sorry for the last message, it has been a misunderstanding between me and the seller.


Ale