Backpacking Appalachian Trail in Virginia in April-May [Archive]

jloen

4-Apr-2011, 15:14

I'm backpacking about 400 miles from Shenandoah NP (Thornton Gap) to Damascus, VA, starting in mid-April. I'm starting out with a light (2.6 lb) Nagaoka 4x5 field camera rig, totaling 8 lbs including camera, 3 lenses, Gossan light meter, Slik tripod, two film holders, a box of HP5 sheets, dark cloth, and a few other things like filters, lupe, & shutter release. I plan to change films at night under the dark cloth although I could carry a changing bag if necessary, which would allow me to shoot more than 4 sheets/day.

The main problem I foresee is making decent hiking mileage (15-25 mpd), which will cut into the photo taking-ha ha, early AM or late PM probably are best for photos anyway and daylight hours are mostly for marching south.

My main question is if anyone has any suggestions as to localities for seeing gritty old log cabins, historical sites, battlefields, natural features, you know--good B&W material. I'm not so much into shooting views at overlooks. I will be entirely on foot, so mobility to surrounding areas is limited, and my time is limited to 4 weeks.

Plan to bring only 400 speed film, since the trail usually is quite low light.

Walter Calahan

4-Apr-2011, 16:30

The AT is far from battlefields because armies don't like fighting on ridge lines and mountain tops. The natural features in the area are usually below the AT trail, which means you'll end up eating up a lot of top off trail.

15 to 25 mpd is pushing it with that much LF gear. I prefer one Leica rangefinder when I'm on the trail.

http://www.walterpcalahan.com/Photography/Portfolios/Pages/Lifestyle.html#2

Bill_1856

4-Apr-2011, 16:31

Replace those double-dark film holders with a Grafmatic or two. (Holds Six sheets at one pound.)
Which Slik tripod/head are you using?

ROL

4-Apr-2011, 16:55

To tell you the truth, I'm surprised you're able to get the camera equipment down to 8 lbs. (...my BPing MF Kit is 10+, with only 2 lenses, and meter) But really, 4 sheets of film/day? You must be very confident, very good, or both!

Like the other responders I am going to try to lighten/streamline your kit for you, rather than answer your actual question. When I carried LF for multiple days I was able to forego the darkcloth by using my (dark) windbreaker/rainsuit top, elastic waistcord snugged to the GG (works like a BlackJacket). Think about using cheap strong eyeglasses in place of a loupe. I changed film inside my sub 2 lbs. sleeping bag at night, in the shadow of a tree when moonlit.

Have fun!

christopher walrath

4-Apr-2011, 18:01

It has been a long time since I hiked the AT. In 85 I, along with an uncle, trekked from Penmar to Front Royal over the span of two weeks. And I remember that the 15-18 mile days were followed by a 6-8 mile day. Don't count on much being within close proximity to the trail. You might focus more on local living and aspects of the trail itself. Battlefields are but done from a car when there are reenactors present, IMHO.

There's no way I could traverse the AT now. But I am envious, nonetheless. That is one time I will cherish and never forget. Have a great time.

Thebes

4-Apr-2011, 20:43

Can you really make 15-25 miles per day for that long without blowing out your knees?
Can you really do that while also carrying your photo gear and occasionally using it?

My wife and I averaged about 12 miles per day hiking from Springer to MA in 2000 and from MA to ME border in 2001. Both times we went off the trail due to injuries, a common enough occurrence. Unless you have recently spent months straight hiking up every bump, mountain, ridge and peak around with a heavy pack on, I'd bet your knees won't handle the strain even if your muscles can. We did one 27 mile day slack-packing, and only three or four other 20+ mile days. We saw a lot of very fit adults drop off the trail due to joint problems, they were usually pushing to make big mile days. We saw a drunkard who hiked every year, actually hike while swigging Jack Daniels and smoking, he looked like crap but his body was used to it.

Its likely at some point everything you have will get wet. This happened to us about once a month. Double ziplock anything that should stay dry, consider how you will keep your film dry if it rains and fogs for a week straight. I can't imagine having changed film on many wet, foggy, or stormy nights, but a sleeping bag at least has two uses if you change in that.

If I were to make another attempt at a thru-hike or even at finishing up Maine, with a view camera, it would be something like a Galvin 2x3 and roll film. Aside from weight, film holders would be my biggest concern- its easier to keep rolls clean, uncrushed, and dry. In any case I'd send exposed film home (or to lab) each time you resupply, no sense in having more at risk due to mishap... and oh the mishaps we occasionally saw!

If you can keep up 15+ miles a day in that section, consider north bounding it, you will have some thru-hikers then and will enjoy the multi-day company. A lot of my fondest trail memories are of other long-distance hikers.

As for sites, occasionally look behind you as well as to the front. Consult hiking guides, some of the blue blazes lead to better views than the AT itself, decide in advance if you will only be following white blazes. If you no-bo it, you'll want to photograph people you meet along the way, if you so-bo you probably won't care because you'll see most of them once.

Duct-tape, super glue, a swiss army knife and a sewing kit will fix almost anything.
Not all who wander are lost.

tgtaylor

4-Apr-2011, 21:02

I haven't hiked the Appalachian Trail but 3 lens sounds like overkill to me. Here's my lightweight LF kit for Hiking in the Sierra consiste:

1. Toyo 45CF with 150mm Rodenstock Apo-sirona S lens attached. ~ 4lbs. Carried inside the pack.

2. F64 film holder case with 4 Toyo holders attached to the outside.

3. Harrison pup tent on the outside of the pack.

4. 50 Sheet film box with a mixture of B&W and color\ on the inside.

5. Cable release, Toyo 4x loupe, cokin P slim holder, and 3 Cokin P filters on the inside top.

6. Gitzo GT0540 tripod w/G1177M ball head on the outside. Yes, that's a light tripod and head but with a 4 lb camera with copal shutter you don't need a lot of weight as long as you have a shutter release.

I don't know how much all of the above weighs but I'm sure it comes in at around 10 lbs.

The above lens gives me as much coverage as a 35mm lens on a 35mm camera or a 75mm lens on my 6x7 and is the focal length I use most in the Sierra. A 90mm would be nice but mine, a f4.5 Grandagon, weighs as much as the tripod and is bulky.

The camera, which I keeped wrapped in a Domky wrap, is equipped with a folding focusing hood and I use it and the wrap in lieu of carrying a focusing cloth.

Thomas

jloen

5-Apr-2011, 10:25

Thanks for your thoughts. I knew there were some other LF backpackers and enthusiasts out there.

Anything can happen. Physically I've done this sort of thing many times before (career as a field geologist), but thank you for your warnings and concerns. The Blue Ridge sections have a lot of long ridge walks, so it is possible to do fairly good mileage. I also run ultramarathons (13 last year). My knees are fine and my pack weight will be fairly light. On my last backpacking trip I hiked Maine's 100 mile wilderness with a Contax G1 35 mm outfit and tripod, which was good, but I have a need for a bigger neg this time.

With a 12 lb base weight, I can afford 8 lbs for camera gear and 10 lbs food/water and still be at or below 30 lbs, which is acceptable to me (age 55, wanting to do this before I get much older!).

Probably I could use fewer lenses. I've chosen the wide field Ektar 100/6.3, Rodenstock Geronar 150/6.3, an Ektar 203/7.7. Weights range from 144 to 189 g. I had bought a Schneider Algonon 90/6.8 off eBay for it's light 121 g weight but it needs to be repaired. I might just use the two Ektars.

The tripod weighs about 1.5 lbs. It's the lightest Slik available, a little short but usable in a pinch with a light camera if the wind's not blowing.

I considered the Grafmatic holder, they certainly are convenient but heavy; three Fidelities are still lighter than one Grafmatic although the Graf takes up less space.

I normally do take very few photos. Four/day is about right. I am no expert, but pretty motivated.

There's another week to refine things. Thanks again for your suggestions.

Bill_1856

5-Apr-2011, 10:59

Jloen, I are impressed (and more than a little envious).
I am also surprised: you are absolutely right -- I just weighed them, and 3 Riteway holders are 12 ounces compared to 16 oz for a Grafmatic.
The two-Ektar option sounds good. If you really want a medium FL, there are often six inch (152mm) Ektars for sale cheap -- a really superb lens in the same Supermatic shutter as your other lenses. I love the 203mm Ektar.
I use a Nagaoka also, and don't believe that any tripod/head that light is adequate. A carbon-fiber Feisel with Leica ball head is about 3.5#.
Have a great trip, and please report back to us after you get home.

Greg Lockrey

5-Apr-2011, 11:37

LOL... I was watching a PBS show about the Appalachian Trail and they showed the number of cameras left behind at the first station.

Vaughn

5-Apr-2011, 12:11

LOL... I was watching a PBS show about the Appalachian Trail and they showed the number of cameras left behind at the first station.

And the gear left at the bottom of the Grand Canyon every year could fill an outdoor supply store! LOL!

Have a great hike! I spent 5 months or so bicycling in New Zealand with a 4x5 -- I exposed about 75 sheets...which is only about a half sheet a day...so 4 sheets a day sounds fine to me. I only used one lens, but that was my normal set-up and not just my traveling one. Two would be "safer" if one gets dropped or the shutter stops working (I took a pinhole as my "spare" lens).

I took a spare GG in a film box, since that is one of more fragile components -- and critical. A bit of rope to attach a weight (rock, etc -- or a nylon bag to put dirt/sand in) to the center of the pod might come in handy for stabilizing such a light pod in the field.

The more accessible the camera gear, the more likely one is to haul it out and use it. In other words, don't bury it in the bottom of your pack. I ran into that on the bike -- as I tended to stash various camera bits and pieces on different parts of the bike.

Vaughn

Alan Rabe

5-Apr-2011, 12:51

Burkes Garden. It was a mountain that collapsed in on itself a long,long time ago. It has some amish farms in it and a big white church and cemetary right in the middle. It is just east of Tazwell. The AP Trail runs right along its eastern edge

tgtaylor

5-Apr-2011, 18:21

I use a Nagaoka also, and don't believe that any tripod/head that light is adequate. A carbon-fiber Feisel with Leica ball head is about 3.5#.

Bill,

Below is a picture of my Toyo 45CF set-up on a Gitzo GT0540 tripod (1.7lbs) and Gitzo G1177M ball head (0.68lbs).

It's shown with the 150mm Rodenstock which folds-up with the camera with its protective lens cap attached at focus extension for that lens. I don't use a quick release but instead screw the camera all the way down to the circular base of the head using the cameras 1/4 inch thread and an adaptor for the ball head's thread. I find it more more stable to use the large circular base of the tripod to anchor the camera and not use a quick release plate. I then extend the legs and balance the camera using the tripods adjustable legs while observing the dual levels on the rear standard. Rarely, if ever, will I extend the center column but, as suggested above by Vaughn, often use the hook to hold ~10lbs of rocks which are usually readily available in the sack as shown. If not, then I will either grasp the center column and firmly apply pressure straight down to the ground or hook my pack up to it if there is room enough.

As long as use a cable release I have had great success using this set-up with the Toyo CF and Pentax 645N. It won't work with the Pentax 67II and I have never tried it with the Toyo AX. It's expensive but it allows me to take a 4x5 camera on hikes that otherwise I wouldn't. Just as important, though, is using cut film and a Harrison pup tent. You can easily pack 100 sheets or more of film that way.

jloen

5-Apr-2011, 18:56

I use a Nagaoka also, and don't believe that any tripod/head that light is adequate. A carbon-fiber Feisel with Leica ball head is about 3.5#.

I was afraid this thread would change to a gear thread... Well, OK then, hey I might learn something. If anyone is interested in my gear list, with weights, I will post it.

Bill, I'm sure the Feisel or a CF Gitzo Mountaineer is great.
However, I have used the Slik Sprint Mini GM (weight 1 lb 9.5 oz) for three-hour-long time exposures of stars swirling around Mt Katahdin in Maine, and it worked great with a 2 lb Contax G1 camera. No vibration in 3 hrs! 3 lbs is 33% more weight, although I think it will actually work fine without center post extension, and with the suspended weight others recommend. For long distance backpacking I don't want to pay $500+ for a much heavier tripod, even though it may be quite a bit better. If that's really necessary I would drop down to MF or 35 mm for this trip. I'm actually looking for a lighter tripod than 1 lb 9.5 oz!!! BTW there are some shockingly light ideas on www.backpackinglight.com if you search for tripod.

Has anyone been to Hoover's Rapidan Camp in Shenandoah? Does the cabin have B&W character? 1930's CCC rock/wood structures might be good too. PATC cabins are good ones, especially Corbin.

jloen

5-Apr-2011, 19:34

just for illustration:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/61474803@N06/5594148916/

Night time exposure of Mt Kathadin from Abol Bridge campground.
Contax G1 on a 1 lb 9 oz Slik sprint mini GM tripod.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/61474803@N06/5594148916/

Bill_1856

6-Apr-2011, 05:12

I was afraid this thread would change to a gear thread... .

I apologize.

ethics_gradient

6-Apr-2011, 07:14

And the gear left at the bottom of the Grand Canyon every year could fill an outdoor supply store! LOL!

Have a great hike! I spent 5 months or so bicycling in New Zealand with a 4x5 -- I exposed about 75 sheets...which is only about a half sheet a day...so 4 sheets a day sounds fine to me. I only used one lens, but that was my normal set-up and not just my traveling one. Two would be "safer" if one gets dropped or the shutter stops working (I took a pinhole as my "spare" lens).

I took a spare GG in a film box, since that is one of more fragile components -- and critical. A bit of rope to attach a weight (rock, etc -- or a nylon bag to put dirt/sand in) to the center of the pod might come in handy for stabilizing such a light pod in the field.

The more accessible the camera gear, the more likely one is to haul it out and use it. In other words, don't bury it in the bottom of your pack. I ran into that on the bike -- as I tended to stash various camera bits and pieces on different parts of the bike.

Vaughn

Do you have a blog/write up of this online somewhere? I'd love to read it!

Vaughn

6-Apr-2011, 08:12

Do you have a blog/write up of this online somewhere? I'd love to read it!

This was almost 25 years ago -- a time before blogs, LOL! My journal was my notes in the cycling guides I had (one for each island) where I kept track of my route and daily miles (km) -- along with my photo notes (recorded light values and exposure info), and of course the 20-print portfolio that resulted from the trip (16x20 silver gelatin prints).

There are certainly some good stories over the 6 months I was on my travels and I have bored some people with them. Perhaps I will write them up someday, illustrated with the images I took -- something for my boys to read, though they will have adventures of their own to experience before they are ready to sit down and read such a thing.

But right now I am too wrapped up in the present and the images still to make to go back and spend the time to do that. And I am ready for some more adventures myself. I would like to spend some time this Spring/summer backpacking solo in the wilderness I worked in as a wilderness ranger for ten years (1981 to 1990). I prefer to go where I would not see anyone else the entire trip.

I would like to see if I can pack my 5x7 along with me -- or perhaps just the Gowland 4x5 (2.5 lbs with the lens) that I used in New Zealand, down in the Grand Canyon and other places. But my days of 85 pound packs are over. I will have to do some research on lightening things up! I day-hike with my 8x10 camera -- that is about 60 pounds of gear, so that would have to be my max now.

Like jloen, I need to do this before I get too old (I am 58 this year). All too soon I will have to restrict myself to just taking the Rolleiflex!LOL!

tgtaylor

6-Apr-2011, 11:07

Below is a picture of my bicycle parked at a small roadside church east of Heraklion on the island of Crete. I had taken the overnight ferry from Piraeus (the port of Athens) to Heraklion. After touring Heraklion and Knosos I circled Crete clockwise staying close to or on the coast before finally taking the ferry back to the mainland at Hania where I continued to tour central Greece and the Peloponnese before to returning to Athens.

At the time my camera was a Pentak K1000 which I carried in the handle-bar bag along with 2 additional lens, my wallet, sun screen, etc. The Toyo 45CF with Gitzo GT 0540 and G1177M ball head and Harrison pup tent and a couple hundred sheets of film would be very doable on bicycle. You get the opportunity to meet a lot of the locals when traveling on bicycle: you're not the average tourists to them. Traveling with LF would allow you the added possibility of meeting some of the local photographers and developing your film (at least the B&W) during the tour. I'm sure that here and there you'll find B&W chemistry for sale and suitable trays can be found at a flee market or store for almost nothing and toss after using. Who knows, you may even run into an advanced amateur like myself that has a Jobo and the chemistry to do C-41 or E-6.

BTW, the little roadside church in the photo was open like all such roadside shrines that you run into in Greece. This particular one had an alter with lit candles and I snapped a couple of photos inside.

jeroldharter

6-Apr-2011, 11:34

jloen,

15-25 miles? Perhaps you would like to carry me along just to increase the difficulty? That is an ambitious itinerary, especially to include photography. I don't do very good photography if I am tired.

Looks like you have your methods and gear in order.

I do like the idea of the other guy's Toyo CF with 1 lens attached that can fold up in the clamshell. That would be great for backpacking.

Vaughn

6-Apr-2011, 11:41

Taking over the thread, but here is one of my favorite images from my NZ bike tour:

Truman Cove
West Coast, South Island
Gowland 4x5, Caltar II-N 150mm/5,6
T-Max100 in HC-110

Every picture tells a story, don't it...this one was taken after a long drought of about three weeks -- wet weather, stuck in my tent for a week in the rain with the flu, a bad knee, etc etc. I rode my bike a mile or so from the campground at the Pancake Rocks (Punakaiki) to this place and as I turned off the road to the trail head to get to this cove, I found a dead weasel -- actually just its head and one front leg.

I carried RK (Road Kill) down to the cove with me and photographed it several times -- why? Just to break the drought. I have never done more than make contacts of those 4x5's. After that I made the image below (just a scan of a straight contact print.)

For those who are interested (anyone? LOL!), some stats. With the bike fully loaded (~80lbs of gear), I rode 2000 miles in 5 months, averaging riding every third day and about 45km per day ridden. I went to photograph, not necessarily to cover distance.

Heespharm

6-Apr-2011, 11:52

I would get a gowland pocket view with 3-4 film holders and a changing bag with a box of film should way like 5 lbs max... The a small 150mm grandagon very small light weight and capable

Vaughn

6-Apr-2011, 12:25

I would get a gowland pocket view with 3-4 film holders and a changing bag with a box of film should way like 5 lbs max... The a small 150mm grandagon very small light weight and capable

While that is my 4x5 kit, the Nagaoka 4x5 field camera is just a few ounces heavier and is a fine camera -- and perhaps easier to pack and use than the monorail Gowland.

jloen

11-Apr-2011, 17:32

Thanks for sharing, Vaughn.
And I wish you hadn't said that about the Rolleiflex. It is pulling me so much in that direction! A bit heavier than the 4x5 (2 lb 11 oz for my 2.8C) but much less overall gear & hassle.

All too soon I will have to restrict myself to just taking the Rolleiflex!LOL!

Vaughn

11-Apr-2011, 22:42

I know, I know. I have been looking at new backpacks -- my large-volume Gregory Cassin is 27 years old and the metal hardware on it is failing. I can no longer carry the 85 pound packs I did 25 years ago, so I am looking at the smaller volume Gregories (such as the Baltoro 75). In theory, I could carry a 60 pound pack -- that is the weight of my 8x10 system I day-hike with. But the reality is that I would enjoy it much more with 45 pounds, which I would hardly feel.

This Spring/summer I hope to get back into the wilderness I had worked in for 12 years (1979 to 1991) -- mostly as wilderness ranger and trail builder. But I have to decide why I am going...to photograph and document it, or just to experience the Wilderness again.

Somehow, the idea of keeping everything simple seems to be growing on me. No stove, no tent, no major camera equipment. And spending a lot of time off the trails -- I spent years on those trails -- packing mules, swinging a pick-axe and pulling on a cross-cut saw. Time to explore more rather than just revisit.

The Rolleiflex could be a good compromise for me. I have made tiny platinum prints and carbon prints from medium format negs -- intimate little prints that could match how I feel for the place. I even have a Zeiss 6x9 folder I could bring along -- run some color in the Rollei and B&W in the folder. Dang -- there I go complicating things again! LOL! Actually, rather than color, I would probably run B&W in both -- and develop the films differently -- The Rollei for silver gelatin printing and folder for the alt process printing.

Once I build myself back up, I could think about taking the 4x5 (or the 5x7) -- or take one of those set-ups when my boys go with me, and have them carry the extra weight! What's the sense of having three 14-year-olds if you can't get any work out of them!

Whatever you take with you, enjoy your time in the woods! If that means having the 4x5 with you, go for it!

Vaughn

Frank Petronio

11-Apr-2011, 23:03

Medium format with a light 6x6 fixed lens TLR or 6x9 folder just makes so much more sense... overall less complex and bulky, loading issues are resolved and the weight of a changing tent/bag is saved. Even a relatively heavy Fuji 6x9 Texas Leica still puts you ahead, and carefully used is capable of stunning quality.

The other big savings could come from not using a tripod but perhaps using a combination of beanbags, clamps, and hiking poles, etc. Since the tripods you're suggesting are all short to begin with, resting the camera on natural objects isn't going to put it that much lower (just move the stump or rock as needed).

A Rolleicord can be half the weight, just as sharp, more reliable (film transport is simple), and a lot less expensive than a Rolleiflex. Some of the German folders can also be flyweight.

Personally I'd be looking at Bessas, old or new versions depending on your budget.

Vaughn

12-Apr-2011, 00:17

I do have several rolls of 120 film from the wilderness taken 20 or so years ago (I did not trust the mules with my LF equipment!). But when one is contact printing, the more film real estate the better! LOL!

My 6x9 Zeiss folder is a hefty little package!

Thad Gerheim

12-Apr-2011, 06:50

Take an 11x14 and go only five miles, you'll see more and come back with great images! Seriously, I could never understand why people want to set distances to hike or peaks to bag. I find the slower I go the more I see. I take my 4x5 Toyo AX on ten to fourteen day trips that rarely are more than 70 miles, and I'm now using horses!
The important thing is to have fun and stay dry.

jloen

12-Apr-2011, 08:33

It's all about living life to the fullest. Do whatever works for you, but get out there!

In my case a friend asked me to join him, hiking to Trail Days in Damascus, VA. Long days, adding up to decent mileage are pretty standard on this part of the AT. It's not about walking fast, but walking long. I've averaged 1 mph on many parts of the AT because I stop a lot, eat, talk, take photos, space out, etc, and the trail can be very rough going.

I realize that a lot of people are not capable or willing to do long distance hikes. That's OK. I'd doing it now because I may not be able to do it in a few years. I would never recommend this sort of thing to others because it can involve a lot of discomfort. Low lows and high highs rather than the mundane sameness of modern life.

jloen

19-May-2011, 17:55

I'm back from the trip. We did the miles as scheduled, 500 in 27 days. Not bad for old guys on a tough trail, climbing up and down mountains all day.
I carried the 4x5 kit for the first 4 days in Shenandoah NP. The load was manageable, but I had only a short time in the evening for photos. Shot maybe 15 sheets.
I dropped off the 4x5 and picked up a Rollei 35SE. Carried it for 9 days or so then sent the whole photo kit home from Pearisburg and completed the hike without a camera. I was frustrated that I didn't have time to shoot photos correctly (slowly, that is) so I gave up the whole game this time around.
My conclusions are that it is possible to backpack with 4x5, but only do it if the purpose of the trip is photography, and sufficient time will be available at the times when light is good. Good B&W subject matter on the AT was, for me, rather difficult to find. Monotonous long green tunnel day after day, and lighting usually was harsh or very dim.
Perhaps those dang little digi-snappers have a place in this world after all. (Alas).