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goamules
3-Apr-2011, 05:33
....at least, that's what this seller says. 330549156099

"Many folks are dishonestly adding the moniker ‘Portrait’ to the name of the lenses they’re selling to mislead folks into believing these lenses are portrait or soft focus lenses when they aren’t by any stretch of the imagination a soft focus or portrait lens. For example, some Petzval lenses are soft enough to be used as a portrait lens, some are ‘tack sharp’ and despite this, are being mis-represented as a portrait lenses."

He seems not to know why Petzvals were invented (for Daguerreotype portraits), what they were marketed and used for for 100 years, and that they are having a resurgence with portrait photographers. I wrote and tried to explain the same, but just got chewed out.

Emil Schildt
3-Apr-2011, 08:31
....at least, that's what this seller says. 330549156099

"Many folks are dishonestly adding the moniker ‘Portrait’ to the name of the lenses they’re selling to mislead folks into believing these lenses are portrait or soft focus lenses when they aren’t by any stretch of the imagination a soft focus or portrait lens. For example, some Petzval lenses are soft enough to be used as a portrait lens, some are ‘tack sharp’ and despite this, are being mis-represented as a portrait lenses."

He seems not to know why Petzvals were invented (for Daguerreotype portraits), what they were marketed and used for for 100 years, and that they are having a resurgence with portrait photographers. I wrote and tried to explain the same, but just got chewed out.

can imagine...

His ranting about us from the old world is rather rude.... I wouldn't buy anything from him anyway...

BarryS
3-Apr-2011, 08:51
Say what? Why go out of your way to insult potential customers--many of whom presumably buy, sell, and use Petzval (omg portrait) lenses. Then he goes on to salt his ad with the magical Pinkham dust. :)

Mark Sawyer
3-Apr-2011, 10:19
At the risk of being pedantic... :rolleyes: There are three generations called portrait lenses by photographers or manufacturers of their day, (the dates you could probably argue with a bit):

The first (1840-1900) was the Petzval, because they were bright enough (f/4-ish) for fairly quick exposures on less-light-sensitive materials when all other lenses of reasonable sharpness were f/8 or slower. One needed a portrait lens so the sitter didn't hold still for so long.

The second (1880-1950) was the softened portrait lens of many different designs, meant to flatter the sitter by smoothing out the skin flaws and wrinkles.

The third (1920-current) is just a conventional general -purpose lens of somewhat-longer-than-normal focal length to flatten the features, or at least keep them from appearing to protrude.

Jonathan Brewer
3-Apr-2011, 11:55
The first poster is mis-representing what I said in my ad for my 405mm Kodak Portrait lens, here's the first entries in my ad, and I'll point out that I was talking about lenses in general and not just Petzvals, and I mention Petzvals way down the line, and in mentioning them I said 'some', not all, some Petzvals are being represented by sellers as something they aren't. Here's what I said..........

"This is the FABULOUS 405 Kodak Portrait lens, a TRUE PORTRAIT LENS that doesn’t take a backseat to even the Pinkham semi-achromatics.

This lens was designed as a portrait lens from the start and has PORTRAIT on its barrel, unlike the imposter lenses being thrown up for sale on ebay recently, that were NEVER portrait lenses nor do they have the name PORTRAIT ANYWHERE ON THE LENS BARREL.

Many folks are dishonestly adding the moniker ‘Portrait’ to the name of the lenses they’re selling to mislead folks into believing these lenses are portrait or soft focus lenses when they aren’t by any stretch of the imagination a soft focus or portrait lens. For example, some Petzval lenses are soft enough to be used as a portrait lens, some are ‘tack sharp’ and despite this, are being mis-represented as a portrait lenses."

I was talking about ALL the lenses NOT just Petzvals, that some speculators and/or collectors are representing as portrait lenses when they in fact they have no idea of what they're selling.

Where does anybody see me knocking the photographers who use these lenses or a other fellow shooter??? I haven't been rude to anybody who uses and/or are knowledgeable these lenses, I use them myself. What I've done, I've spoken my mind, and done just the OPPOSITE of what Goamules says, and spoken out against the folks who DON'T use any of these lenses let alone Petzvals and who suggest that any of these lenses started out life as portrait lenses when they haven't.

There's been some dancing w/words here, I am a portrait shooter, and know what a Vitax, Vesta, or Dallmeyer is, and my gripe w/the speculators and collectors on ebay is that they're representing lenses(others lenses along w/SOME Petzvals) to folks as portrait lenses who're going to be awafully disappointed when they get the lens and it doesn't turn out to be a Vesta or Dallmeyer.

You made up your mind I was talking about only Petzvals and the folks who use 'em and that was wrong Goamules as well as you continuing this by bringing here w/partial quotes.

I was talking about speculators and collectors who mis-represent lenses in general as portrait lenses, to collect a 'buck' and not fellow shooters .

If you want to 'roast' me for what I 've said in my ad go ahead, but don't put words in my mouth by mis-representing what I wrote as being only about Petzval lenses, because that's not what I said.

Projection Petzvals have been mis-represented on ebay as being portrait lenses, I'm critical of that, which has nothing to do w/somebody selling a Vesta or Vitax, or Dallmeyer which are obviously are portrait lenses.

Goamules decides that's not what I'm talking about and also decides that what I've said amounts to 'Petsvals are portrait lenses', and them somebody else chimes in that I meant some of you, via rudeness.

Fairness????? I don't so. This is my first/last comment. I'm gone.

Jonathan Brewer
3-Apr-2011, 12:40
I'm not going to let this pass w/o a reply to another comment.

I'm not putting 'salt' in the game w/my comparing the Kodak Portrait lens to the Pinkham, I've said what I've said about the Kodak Portrait in comparison to the Pinkhams for years via my site 'Widopen'.

I've mentioned for yrs before I posted this ad that I considered the Kodak Portrait as another interation of the Pinkham SA, so I'm not going to stop saying that because I'm selling this lens.

I've in fact shot w/the Kodak, Pinkham SA I, Pinkham SA Doublet III, and Pinkham VQ IV #2 along w/the Kodak Portrait, so I can compare 'em because I've actually shot with them.

If I shot the same subject matter w/all of the above mentioned lenses you would not be able to spot the shots by the Pinkham versus the Kodak Portrait.

Now I'm gone

Steven Tribe
3-Apr-2011, 13:18
Jonathan.

I like most of what you write in your listing about the lens itself. But I think, like, Goamules, that you ignore the fact that the definition of portrait lens until the last century WAS a question of speed and the movement of sitters/illumination. It had nothing to do with soft lenses - apart from a few speciality lenses. The criticism of certain listers which has made here about Projection Petzvals sold as Portrait Petzvals has been about the "packaging" in the listing - many of these have been optically identical with some of the glamour names - just without stops.

And a few more comments:

"This lens was designed as a portrait lens from the start and has PORTRAIT on its barrel, unlike the imposter lenses being thrown up for sale on ebay recently, that were NEVER portrait lenses nor do they have the name PORTRAIT ANYWHERE ON THE LENS BARREL."

This is absolute nonsense, Jonathan! "Portrait" labelling started with Voigtländer's (Euryskop) Portrait series in the middle 1890's, I think. Which rules out a lot of classics.



" I will NOT sell outside the United States PERIOD. Don’t ask, don’t beg, don’t bid, if you’re not in the U.S. No proxy bidders bidding through a US address, then you contact me from out of the country. I’ve had enough of overseas buyers attempting to victimize me with CHARGEBACK FRUAD and FEEDBACK EXTORSION. Enough is enough."

Like, Gandolfi, I think this could be more diplomatically worded. When selling high value items, there is always a good chance of attracting unsavory/demanding bidders - irrespective of country of residence.

"No returns accepted"

You cannot be serious about this. Things do ocassionally get damaged in the post or delamination starts - my courier says "expect a fall from 1 meter".

cowanw
3-Apr-2011, 14:15
I do have some sympathy for Jonathan's position in this, despite not liking his sales requirements ( I am from away); these are not at issue here.
The current favour petzval's have in the market have more to do with the use of them on larger than recommend formats and the enjoyment of their flaws, than their use as a sharp and fast portrait lens of the day.
The time of the soft focus lens really didn't stop in 1950 as the makers of 35mm lenses Fugi, Canon, Minolta, Pentax Mamiya and Nikon all marketed their soft focus lenses as portrait lenses
the general purpose lens of longer than normal length was as much a function of 35mm and medium format as a trend away from large format bouncing back to large format usage.
I think that the underlying assumption of a purpose built portrait lens for the last 100 years is a soft focus lens.
I think I understood what Jonathan was saying.
Better than hearing "How this baby swirls"

Jonathan Brewer
3-Apr-2011, 14:32
I guess I'll be riding this out....

You've got this on the money Cowanw.....

I think I've tried hard to encourage folks to get into this very type of photograph, I've preached this kind of photography for years, and it would be very disappointing to have a buyer mis-represent a lens to somebody who is considering getting into this and who's promptly burned on his first purchase of a 'Soft Focus'/'Portrait' lens.

"This is absolute nonsense, Jonathan! "Portrait" labelling started with Voigtländer's Portrait series in the middle 1890's, I think. Which rules out a lot of classics.'........

You're mixing up issues, this was never about what you or I consider a Petzval to be, again, my comments were about folks who in many cases have no idea of what the performance is of the lens they're selling, and we're talking about folks who haven't studied the history behind James Petzval, and Petzval lenses, they simply have a lens and figure they'll get more if they call it a portrait regardless of what the lens will do.

Again, you're dancing w/words, I think it's reasonable to assume that if a lens has 'portrait' on it in the way we're discussing this, that there's the strong possibility that it's a portrait lens, and OF COURSE there are lenses there WERE NEVER intended as portrait lenses that turned out to be GREAT portrait lenses.

None of what I've just mentioned has ever been an issue w/me, and I think I alluded to that in the original ad, so let me clarify, my comments have been about folks having no idea of what they're selling, and the resulting disappointment of the folks who may buy these lenses from these folks.

I'm NOT excluding lenses just because they don't have 'Portrait' on the barrel, I've got lenses myself that don't have portrait on the barrel and I've done some very satisfying portrait work w/them, like the Raptor, a GREAT PORTRAIT LENS.

My ad simply suggests that my lens is the Kodak Portrait lens, and you can be confident of that since it does have 'Portrait' on the barrel, saying this doens't exclude some other lenses that function as great portraits lenses regardless of what they were intended for, AGAIN, my negative comments were reserved for the those that would mis-represent what a lens does regardless of what's on the barrel, and disappoint a buyer who doesn't get what he thinks he's getting. What I've just said isn't non-sense, it makes a lot of sense.

This is about what I've said, dishonest sellers bullshitting buyers, and NOT what you or I consider a lens to be regardless of whether a lens has got 'portrait' on the barrel, or a lens that started out life as something else, but functions as a great portrait lens anyway.

This all depends on what you mean by a portrait lens, I think to a certain degree folks can interchange the idea of a soft focus w/the so-called portrait lens, or at least a degree of softness, in using a lens for portraits for a soft rendering. My Petzval was too sharp for portraits out of the box, I had to separate the rear elements away from each other to get it to perform the was I want on portraits.

If I'm honest, and I'm going to sell this lens on ebay, and for the benefit of somebody who may not know what you folks know, I'll list this Petzval as being quite sharp, where you'll have to unscrew the rear elements away from each other to get some softness, and let the buyer make up his mind as opposed to just saying it's a portrait lens and taking my money.

The harshness and abruptness in the wording of who bids is not for the good folks, it's for the 'crooks' where I've worded this nicely and delciately and they still bougt my gear though a US proxy, contacted me from overseas, telling me that they were on an oil rig and I wouldn't be getting any money for a month, and after a month, they tell me the perfect gear that I sent them was damaged and that they'll hold up my money unlesss I agree to change the price to HALF of the winning bid. They also make it clear that if I don't do that, I'll get a negative.

I was two months battling this out on ebay and paypal, so I wish I could know who to trust and to sell to but I can't, so I directed some harshness to the crooks, not to good folks, I wish I know who to trust overseas

What I take issure with and what I think is unfair is somebody starting out this thread by suggesting in a mocking tone that I stated that 'Petzvals aren't portrait lenses'. Now you can lynch me to the rafters but I didn't say that.

Jonathan Brewer
3-Apr-2011, 22:20
This is 'Upon Reflection'..............one version is the Kodak Portrait, the other version is the Pinkham Visual Quality IV #2..............Pick 'em

Regardless of whether you can pick which is which, I'll suggest that these two versions are both fairly close, close enough that neither image is taking a backseat to the other.

Jonathan Brewer
4-Apr-2011, 08:34
Here's 'Upon Reflection' w/this version from my Petzval w/the rear elements screwed away from each, and in this config I consider it definitely putting out the kind of softness as my other soft focus/portrait lenses such the Kodak Portrait, my Velostigmat II(w/limiting screw removed) and some other glass, the question of the difference is one of degree.

In this mode it still may not be a Vesta, Vitax, or Dallmeyer, but it's trying. One thing is for sure, w/o me srewing out the rear elements from each other, it's still VERY fast, and you can obviously still take portraits, again the difference between what you get from the lenses original config and screwing the rear elements away from each other being a difference in the degree of softness.

This goes along w/the original point, and contrary to the way my ad and I have characterized in this thread, I've studied all this, from James Petzval, his life, to the definition of a 'zero Petzval sum', read up 1000 times CC Harrison's good stuff and everything else I could find on Petzvals for quite a long time.

My Petzval lens ISN'T a Vesta, Vitax, or Dallmeyer, and if the expectation from somebody considering buying a portrait lens is that he's getting a certain degree of softness/or something approaching a Vista or a Vitax, then my lens isn't that kind of lens(in its orgiginal config) even though it is STILL a Petzval, STILL fast, and can still be used on portraiture.

This of course is why the Vestas and Dallmeyers fetch more bucks and it's because of the difference in degree in softness, not the consideration of the creation of the Petzval by James Petzval resulting in a faster lens photographers could take advantage in using this lens for portraiture.

I would knock my own lens as a portrait lens in its original config(I get a portrait lens, my expectation is that is has a degree of softness), so that doesn't mean somebody else can say because of that that I'm saying that 'Petzvals aren't for Portraits'.

Yes, the Petzval took us to the faster lens for Portraiture, that's a given, it's used differently now in many cases, for the transition from fairly sharp in the center to the 'swirlies', I am aware of that, and was aware of that when I posted my ad.

I guess this also boils down to what someone's concept of what a portrait lens is, regardless of whether the lens happens to be a Petzval or not

Jonathan Brewer
4-Apr-2011, 19:25
Another aside re: the comment about salting my ad w/my comparing the Kodak to the Pinkhams.

When you actually shoot w/these lenses, the one thing you learn is that they can change/exchange personalities. There are a few lenses that can produce imagery comparable to the Pinkhams.

I uploaded a comparison between the Kodak and Pinkham VQ to drive home the fact that the Kodak is EVERY BIT as good as the Pinkhams(you could debate how it stacks up against the SA Doublet III which I consider the top of the SF foodchain).

Both lenses are great lenses, ONLY difference, if you're lucky, you pay hundreds for one, thousands for the other.

One lens I paid $275.00 for, can produce imagery that is every bit as striking as the Kodak and the Pinkhams, and like many folks, I unleashed its greatness by taking off the set screw off the front SF adjustment ring.

The images I'm uploading here from this lens I consider JUST as satisfying to me as anything I ever did w/any of my Pinkhams.

This ain't sprinkling salt, just plenty of hot sauce.

Emil Schildt
5-Apr-2011, 05:04
The harshness and abruptness in the wording of who bids is not for the good folks, it's for the 'crooks' where I've worded this nicely and delciately and they still bougt my gear though a US proxy, contacted me from overseas, telling me that they were on an oil rig and I wouldn't be getting any money for a month, and after a month, they tell me the perfect gear that I sent them was damaged and that they'll hold up my money unlesss I agree to change the price to HALF of the winning bid. They also make it clear that if I don't do that, I'll get a negative.

I was two months battling this out on ebay and paypal, so I wish I could know who to trust and to sell to but I can't, so I directed some harshness to the crooks, not to good folks, I wish I know who to trust overseas

.

hi Jonathan.
Just a note:

I was sitting, looking and reading your add on Ebay, and then suddenly you started "yelling" at me for being located overseas!

I was reading that I am a potential crook - dishonest - not to be trusted...
I'm sorry, but that's rude in my book.

How can you know if I was bidding by proxy? If I have an agreament with an american friend (and still being a good boy in paying with no questions asked), how could you know?

I have seen a lot of ebay statements saying "I don't send overseas. period"...

Even though I still don't understand why this seller doesn't want to sell for a potential higher price, I don't get offended.

the use of capital letters puts me off.

I just would like to know who to trust overseas, you say.

Are all americans trustworthy?
I would like to know whether the location overseas automatically makes us potential crooks..

Two23
5-Apr-2011, 05:14
I have seen a lot of ebay statements saying "I don't send overseas. period"...

Even though I still don't understand why this seller doesn't want to sell for a potential higher price, I don't get offended.



I don't sell much on eBay, but my wife has in the past. She prefers to sell to customers in US/Canada not because of any trust issues, but rather because all those those European tax/import rules seem very difficult to deal with. It's nothing personal.


Kent in SD

Emil Schildt
5-Apr-2011, 05:28
I don't sell much on eBay, but my wife has in the past. She prefers to sell to customers in US/Canada not because of any trust issues, but rather because all those those European tax/import rules seem very difficult to deal with. It's nothing personal.


Kent in SD

:confused:

But that's "my problem" isn't it?

My country is a thief! yes - high taxes and custom fees (except for antiques (100+years - then it is free....), but again, that I know and count on....

How can it be a sellers problem? (as long as we still consider me honest..)

eddie
5-Apr-2011, 06:10
he only has a few words in capital about overseas shipping.

jonathan, if you exclude the rest of the world they can not see or bid on the item.

BUT as the dollar continues to drop my overse3as sales have gone way up. i have shipped more overseas since jan. than i can believe.

anyway. too bad on how poor old jonathan is getting bashed.

eddie

ps. i know which is the pinkham and which is the kodak in the above photos....:) lol!

Two23
5-Apr-2011, 06:26
:confused:

But that's "my problem" isn't it?

My country is a thief! yes - high taxes and custom fees (except for antiques (100+years - then it is free....), but again, that I know and count on....

How can it be a sellers problem? (as long as we still consider me honest..)

Again, this is more my wife's deal, but even I wasn't aware that the seller didn't have to deal with all the VAT stuff etc. She's mostly been selling inexpensive stuff leftover from an estate sale, but I'll be selling some camera gear when the weather warms up a bit more, later this month. I will go by buyer feedback. (But will still likely rule out anyone from Nigeria. :D ) There's a few things I will probably just sell here. I have no problem selling to anyone here.


Kent in SD

Richard Rankin
5-Apr-2011, 06:49
I think one reason Americans don't want to ship overseas is because of the US postal service's attempt to force people to use more expensive options. Plus Americans in general don't seem to understand customs procedures because we rarely have to deal with it as a buyer or consumer. In my opinion, the postal service is trying to confuse people so they automatically default to the easiest (and most expensive) method.

For example, if you use an international flat-rate priority box, the postage might be $35, but you can print it at home, get a small label, and even get a discount on postage, and the postman picks it up.

If you ship in a non-flat rate priority box, the postage might be $25, but you need a special plastic envelope for the label, you get multiple copies to put in the envelope, and the instructions are practically non-existent and unclear. BUT, you can print at home and ship if the box is large enough to hold the giant plastic envelope you have to use AND you have the special envelope.

If you ship 1st class int'l package, the shipping might only be $12 BUT, you have to physically take the package to the post office, hand-fill out a customs form, and physically hand it to a postal employee. No home shipping, no discounts, just queues and hassles but a far better deal for the buyer.

They also have limited tracking/confirmation options to the more expensive shipping options. They lose money hand over fist, and are obviously trying to raise the revenue-per-package rate they get.

Since I live in a very small town with no queue at the post office, I try to save buyers money by shipping international first class package, but it involves a risk if they used paypal and it doesn't get there, or they deny it got there.

Richard

eddie
5-Apr-2011, 12:00
all overseas packages need teh big plastic bag EXCEPT 1st class.

you can buy all the mail classes one way or another on line. you can do it through paypal with out having anyone buy something from you.

you can only add insurance to USPS.com overseas packages.

all teh supplies from USPS.com for mailing are free including t he boxes and the plastic bags mentioned earlier.

any box with a label affixed that has postage paid online can be given to any post office employee for mailing including your carrier or any other one. no need to wait on line. all the customs forms are done on line. all you do is drop it off at the PO.

using the PO is very very easy really. AND they have a PO in almost every zip code. i have two with in one mile and like 4-5 others with in 5 miles.

Richard Rankin
5-Apr-2011, 12:59
See what I mean about confusion?

Possibly with Paypal you can get all mail classes, but not on USPS.com. If Paypal offers the same discounts, it might be worth looking at. Last time I looked, ages ago, they were more expensive for the same package.

You do NOT need the big plastic bag sort of customs/label on all but 1st class packages. I mis-typed when I said 1st class does need them instead of the newer carbonless multi-part form, BUT priority int'l that is not flat-rate from usps.com also needs them. Usps.com flat-rate int'l priority does NOT need them.

You can only add insurance/tracking to SOME usps.com overseas packages

Using the post office is NOT very, very easy. A 10 mile round trip to your post office adds at least several dollars to the cost to you to send it, and at least a half hour to your day. Maybe in NY you have one every mile but that is not the norm throughout the entire country. Surely not around here.

In any event, this probably should have been a separate thread since it really has nothing to do with the original post, and his reluctance to deal overseas seems based on his past experience with some buyers.

I have been shipping int'l priority packages at least bi-weekly overseas for nearly 10 years, and 1st class int'l for a couple of years. I do not sell on Ebay, so that might be a factor, but I've never had someone buy from me and try to rip me off. And I've never had a package get totally lost. Very slow, yes, but never lost.

Cheers, Richard

Mike Anderson
5-Apr-2011, 20:10
See what I mean about confusion?

Possibly with Paypal you can get all mail classes, but not on USPS.com. If Paypal offers the same discounts, it might be worth looking at.

I don't think you can buy 1st class international postage through paypal (nor through USPS online). So shipping from U.S. internationally cheap (1st class) does require a trip to the post office and waiting in line.

...Mike

Jonathan Brewer
6-Apr-2011, 01:50
To Gandolfi: Why don't you just quit reading my ad and my posts, cuz I'm not going to change the way I write.

You read my ad and saw what you wanted to see, I did refer to why I said what I said in the ad, and I clarified it here, I couldn't have made this clearer, so to me, you're focused in on only that part that you think gives you an excuse to 'go off' and ignoring everything else.

I don't know who the hell you are Gandolfi or where you're from, now, or when I wrote the ad, so from where I'm sitting, I think you got a serious problem thinking all this was directed to you

The madder you get, the more I think that's true.

My using caps when I write, is my business, it's not up for discussion, you don't like it. don't read it.

I've made it clear that what I said was a strong and harsh admonition for the crooks(DIDN'T MENTION COUNTRIES-LOL), again, this was for the crooks and not the 'good folks', there's nothing clearer than that, if you decide the part about crooks means you, well that's you deciding that, not me.

I'm sure after saying all this you'll blow, if you do, go right ahead, but I'll suggest you take a deep breath, understand that I was talking to no one in particular in the ad, so why not come back down to earth, instead of going crazy over an attack that was never made.

Getting off personalities, the issue of selling/shipping overseas for me, became untenable w/being forced to go through PayPal. When I sold my SA Doublet for $12,500, and after ebay took their cut, PayPal took $1,500 on top of that, and the FEES(yeah I'm yelling) ended up being a chunk of change that could have bought me another Pinkham.

Worse, what frustrated me was going overseas w/PayPal is that you're getting paid isn't the end of it, you're actually in limbo for 2 months(got that straight over the phone from PayPal). Folks can make a claim for as long as 60 days after the auction. Another time I was burned, I sold this guy a camera, after he begged me to trust him, even though I had stated clearly I wasn't accepting bids from where he was from(made sure I told him it was nothing personal), and of course he begged/pleaded and asked only after he'd made the high bid w/o asking that I let him continue since he was the high bidder anyway.

He won the auction, paid promptly with paypal, I thought it was end of story, it wasn't. He contacts me after he gets the camera, says it's been dropped, doens't want to send the camera back, tells me I have to admit that I intentionally sent him damaged goods and that after I admit he'll drop the whole thing. I know this is a bunch of bullshit, and tell him so, he promptly starts a case w/paypal, starts a site on the internet publishing w/o my permission, my real name, ebay user name, and email address, and my personal emails to him regarding the matter. After that, someone trying to impersonate me, kidnaps my my ebay account, and folks start calling/emailing my bank.

This guy and the dude who bought my gear from an oil rig were the clincher.

I don't trust anybody, you gotta EARN my trust, so it's kind of silly somebody I've never heard of ranting about I don't trust him, why would I(LOL)??? The answer is I wouldn't.

One big issue about overseas versus selling here in the US, is that I have some redress here if somebody rips me off, but no redress when it comes to overseas, and the issue of the manifpulation of PayPay via chargeback fraud and feedback extortion.

When I was being blackmailed, I took the negative because I refused to be blackmailed knowing full well that I might not be sucessful in getting an unjust negative off my record, but I did, at the cost of a lot of sweat and stress.

There are people overseas that I trust, but they had to earn my trust, no amount of self righteous ranting is going to change that

soeren
6-Apr-2011, 02:06
I’ve had enough of overseas buyers attempting to victimize me with CHARGEBACK FRUAD and FEEDBACK EXTORSION. Enough is enough."

Hmm Whats wrong with simply just stating you wont send oversees? Why do you have to ad the above? There is no need to. There is no reasonably reason to throw suspicion on people simply because they do not live i the US. You can have your resons, think what you like but there is no reason to yell it out to the world that you dont trust us foreigners.
Best regards

Steven Tribe
6-Apr-2011, 02:17
I admire your passion. This is good thing for the kind of photography you do.
Perhaps this passion is not such a good thing for messy business of disposing of equipment on Ebay or focussed discussions here?

Emil (Gandolfi) is identified in every posting he makes as being from Denmark, Europe (left-hand column). There are plenty of links here to his own website.

"This is my first/last comment - I'm gone" - well it wasn't!

Andrew Plume
6-Apr-2011, 02:20
I've just caught up with this little thread

maybe it's time to put this one to bed.......................?


andrew

Jonathan Brewer
6-Apr-2011, 02:26
Nah that's BS, plenty of folks have mentioned chargeback fraud and feedback extortion in their ads, so did I.

I've explained why I wrote it enough, If you're still offended so be it. I wrote it the way I intended to, that just the way it's going to be.

Jonathan Brewer
6-Apr-2011, 03:55
Steven Tribe

'Perhaps this passion is not such a good thing for messy business of disposing of equipment on Ebay or focussed discussions here?

Emil (Gandolfi) is identified in every posting he makes as being from Denmark, Europe (left-hand column). There are plenty of links here to his own website.'

Steven, I haven't by choice particpated in this forum in a couple yrs., maybe longer, I truly don't know who Gandolfi/emil is, you didn't know that, but you weren't willing to give me the benefit of the doubt and you assumed I should know who Gandolfi is despite the fact that I'm telling you truth.

What you just did is make an assumption, a wrong one, but you think you're right, that was what was at the heart of this.

Is that Trust??? Why don't you show some before you ask for any??????

The passion and inflamed rhetoric have come from you and a few other folks hijacking this thread from a discussion about Petzvals which I thought did everybody some good, and degenerated to some folks pushing 'buttons' like 'are you calling me a crook?

As far as suggesting that I'm so passionate that I cant see through to a focused discussion, It's always a great tactic to accuse others of what you yourself do, or can't do.

Passion??, you guys went crazy w/passion after I took the time to explain my position, if you were interested in a focused discussion then it would've been reasonable to just end the debate like a few others suggested w/'I don't care for the wording of the ad, but............'

That's what should've happened but didn't, because you guys wouldn't let go of it, you wouldn't let go of the ad and go onto something else, you had plenty of chances to.

What brought me back here was to stick up for myself after Goamules entitiled this thread 'Petzvals aren't for portraits' and then he goes on to say 'at least that's what this seller says' ........which are his words, but he represents them as mine.

I'll say it straight out, folks like Cowanw, and Eddie, and a couple of others focused in on these discussions w/o the inflammatory rhetoric which came from you and Goamules and Gandolfi.

I was gone, and I came back, so you can make a snide comment suggestive of 'why don't I leave', it's not up to you Steven, I'll ride this out or go as I see fit. After this thread is put to bed/locked/or continues/whatever, you may not hear from me for a couple of yrs, or maybe never, but it will be my decision to stay or to go, do you respect that??

If you and the others are really interested in fairness, a spirited exchange of an honest difference of opinion, then you'll welcome me to stay for as long as I want to stay to engage in that focused discussion w/o inflamming things w/the 'who you calling a crook' acrimony.

Now do I get a fair shake???? Do you mean what you say????

soeren
6-Apr-2011, 04:06
Jonathan
Have you by any chance worked for Lehman Brothers or IndyMacBank? :D

cdholden
6-Apr-2011, 07:09
Hey Emil,
Not all of us Americans see non-americans as crooks. Terrorists maybe, but not crooks!
Some of us just don't like selling overseas because the additional customs forms are a pain in the ass... a simple inconvenience.

Chris

Jim Galli
6-Apr-2011, 07:30
I can certainly sympathize that if you go to the Camera and Photo section of evilbay and do a search on Portrait lens, you will pull up a net of fish that are mostly inedible. The sellers there have learned that perhaps just the word 'portrait' seems to have magical values.

Recently a Euryscop Series IV, a NON portrait lens was branded as a Euryscop Portrait Lens and fetched over a thousand dollars more than it's real value. Other examples are a very very pedestrian 10" brass Darlot projection petzval touted as gigantic and portrait bought by some poor fellow in asia for over $1800 thinking that an Imperial Voigtlaender must surely soon show up at his door. This is BLATANT mis-representation and I must believe everyone (except the poor fool who shells out the $$$$) must know this is only done to gather a lot of unfair extra income.

It hurts everyone!

Now, to Jonathan, my friend. The United States is gutted. I send many many boxes overseas. Reason: no one in USA has any luxury item $$ to spend these days. It's all being "re-distributed". Not so much in other lands.

Attention Kirk. That was pretty politically charged and you must soon delete this post, and perhaps even close down the discussion!

soeren
6-Apr-2011, 07:37
Now the worlds Portraitlens experts are gather here how about pointing me in the direction of some fairly cheap portraitlenses (soft focus if possible) that are available in europe. something for the Hollywood style soft portraits.
Best regards

Emil Schildt
6-Apr-2011, 07:44
To Gandolfi: Why don't you just quit reading my ad and my posts, cuz I'm not going to change the way I write.

You read my ad and saw what you wanted to see, I did refer to why I said what I said in the ad, and I clarified it here, I couldn't have made this clearer, so to me, you're focused in on only that part that you think gives you an excuse to 'go off' and ignoring everything else.

I don't know who the hell you are Gandolfi or where you're from, now, or when I wrote the ad, so from where I'm sitting, I think you got a serious problem thinking all this was directed to you

The madder you get, the more I think that's true.

My using caps when I write, is my business, it's not up for discussion, you don't like it. don't read it.

I've made it clear that what I said was a strong and harsh admonition for the crooks(DIDN'T MENTION COUNTRIES-LOL), again, this was for the crooks and not the 'good folks', there's nothing clearer than that, if you decide the part about crooks means you, well that's you deciding that, not me.

I'm sure after saying all this you'll blow, if you do, go right ahead, but I'll suggest you take a deep breath, understand that I was talking to no one in particular in the ad, so why not come back down to earth, instead of going crazy over an attack that was never made.
--

I don't trust anybody, you gotta EARN my trust, so it's kind of silly somebody I've never heard of ranting about I don't trust him, why would I(LOL)??? The answer is I wouldn't.

One big issue about overseas versus selling here in the US, is that I have some redress here if somebody rips me off, but no redress when it comes to overseas, and the issue of the manifpulation of PayPay via chargeback fraud and feedback extortion.

--

There are people overseas that I trust, but they had to earn my trust, no amount of self righteous ranting is going to change that

wow - talk about getting offended...

Mr Brewer.
I am sorry if I offended you!

But I am not you.. And your response here makes me wonder whether you at all think about how written language might be recieved?

You don't trust anybody unless they earn your trust.
That's fine. I, however, trust everybody unless they misuse that trust.

you say": I don't know who the hell you are Gandolfi or where you're from, now, or when I wrote the ad, so from where I'm sitting, I think you got a serious problem thinking all this was directed to you"

I don't know why you have to swear at me. And yes - I feel it is written to me. How could I read otherwise?

You mention two bad cases, selling to overseas people...

And you mention PayPal trouble..

Well - you don't know me of course - and it sounds like you have no intention to try, but that wasn't me!
I have bought several items from USA - I have sometimes overpaied by choise to ease the PayPal pain for the seller.
I try to be respectful and I never try to cheat/underpay a seller.



I get cheated! Yes I do, bu tit is in my nature not to let cheaters affect my approach to others.

And I have never refused an item - or complained about a broken item - or even a wrongly described item... (I am stupid, I know)

That's how I am.

And that is proberly the reason I reacted to the note in your add as I did.

"I'm sure after saying all this you'll blow, if you do, go right ahead.."

you really don't know anything about me....

"One big issue about overseas versus selling here in the US, is that I have some redress here if somebody rips me off, but no redress when it comes to overseas, and the issue of the manifpulation of PayPay via chargeback fraud and feedback extortion."

Now this makes sense to me (maybe I am slow...)


Sorry to have made you angry.
.........


On a side note: I have seen your page several times, and I love the way you treat your lenses...

Jonathan Brewer
6-Apr-2011, 12:34
Gandolfi.........

I'm not angry........................Before Steven Tribe suggested it, I came here for a dis-passionate and focused discussion, but I have to respectfully disagree, I think it's a few folks taking offense to what I said not the other way around.

In spite of that, I agree w/Steven Tribe if he really means what he says, just accept that we disagree and let it go.

My suggestion is to just let it go, if you guys want to discuss this in a positive way. I've always been willing to discuss this in that mode.

I've had several conversations w/folks on this forum via pm, so that part of it was actually enjoyable, but I don't usually participate here. The only reason I jumped in here is to comment on somebody starting this thread w/a quote I didn't make.

Jim I know about 'big bucks' overseas, I sold the Pinkham SA Doublet III overseas, and there was $12,500 worth of trust on that deal which was a magnificent deal between me and him.

That gentleman along w/folks like Stefan Dieterich, Dr. Schmitt, who I've talked to on several occasions, and some other folks who've contacted me from France and other countries like my Chinese pals from Paowang, I consider my among my friends.

Thank you Gandolfi/Emil for the kind words on my site.................I've commented twice on this forum in 2 or 3 yrs, but I certainly know who you are now(LOL)

Everything I want to say has been said.

soeren
6-Apr-2011, 21:21
Nah that's BS, plenty of folks have mentioned chargeback fraud and feedback extortion in their ads, so did I.

I've explained why I wrote it enough, If you're still offended so be it. I wrote it the way I intended to, that just the way it's going to be.

See thats where I really disagree. Because other people mention that in their adds you don't have to. When I read such adds I get a feeling of hostility, a feeling that tells me this guy needs to justify himself and tell us all "Im not a con" so when I see those adds from this side of the pond I ignore them even if its an item id like to buy. If you don't wanna sell overseas thats ok with me, if a german don't wanna sell overseas that ok too, no need to explain, no need to tell people "I don't trust people from the rest of the world" simple as that. Perhaps using capitals is normal in your work but on the internet its like shouting at people. And like Emil I feel its me youre talking to in your add and I think its inpolite to tell other people you see them as frauds just because you have been conned twise. Mind you most of the earths population live outside US.
Btw lots of people drive in the left side of the road, do you? :D
Best regards

BrianShaw
7-Apr-2011, 06:39
And like Emil I feel its me youre talking to in your add and I think ...

Get over yourself... move on... you don't want to buy his lens anyway. :rolleyes:

soeren
7-Apr-2011, 07:16
Get over yourself... move on... you don't want to buy his lens anyway. :rolleyes:

Hehe no and he wont sell it to me :rolleyes:

BrianShaw
7-Apr-2011, 07:51
Hehe no and he wont sell it to me :rolleyes:

If you change your mind, let me know. I'll act as your American agent. Of course... I might have to use the lens for a while before forwarding it but what-the-heck. :D

edp
7-Apr-2011, 09:53
I hope this seller wipes the flecks of spittle off his lenses before shipping them.

soeren
7-Apr-2011, 11:54
If you change your mind, let me know. I'll act as your American agent. Of course... I might have to use the lens for a while before forwarding it but what-the-heck. :D

Thanks Ill remember that
And who am I gonna charge for my money when it gets damaged in the mail? :D