Colour Management – Aaarrgghh pt2

[SteveH]

I'm sorry to be asking for answers to a blow by blow methodology but there are questions that don't seem to be answered in the help menus.

So I’m digging into my printer settings trying to find out why the prints are still not looking like they are on the screen.
Finding my printer through control panel – Devices & Printers (PC Win 7 64bit) I can right-click and get “Printer Properties” and come up with a dialogue box that includes a tab “colour management”
Within this option from the “Devices” tab I can select my printer and choose “Profile selection” Automatic or Manual. If I choose manual I can choose from a list of profiles including my calibrated printer profiles (and my monitor profiles).
Do I need to make changes at this level or just leave it set to “Automatic” and rather make changes in the Printer Preferences dialogue?
Also if I go to the “Advanced” tab I get the option to select profiles for a range of different options. Should I be fiddling around here or just leave it be?

cheers
Steve

More dumb questions to follow – hoping for clever answers

[SolsticePhoto]

Steve,
Going to need a bit more information on you setup to be of help.

In my experience you can setup all of your devices to either sRGB and run independently or you can center on one tool -- say PS and set the color space there. When I do this I tell the printer to not use any profiles (exercise no color correction) but rather let PS manage the colors for the printer. This works well for me with the exception that given the contrast ratio of the displays these days what is on display is brighter than what I get on the printer. I usually overcome this by a simple brightness offset in PS before I hit the print button.

HTH
Eric

[Preston]

Steve, we do need more info...So, let's start with the following:

1. Is your monitor calibrated and profiled.
2. If so, is your monitor profile selected by Windoze in the display properties?
3. What image editing software do you use?
4. What make and model printer are you using?

--P

[SteveH]

Hi
thanks for the replies

My monitor is calibrated and profiled woth Spyder3 elite.
I'm using PhotoShop CS4 on Win 7 64bit. In PS I set the RGB colourspace as ProPhoto RGB, Grey as Gamma 2.2, spot as DotGain 20%. All else as default.
The Printer is an Epson 3880 with standard inkset

I'm not at my home computer at the moment but I believe I set the custom profile through device properties.
Actually I thought that the Spyder Calibration wizard would do that for me.

So maybe I can leave the "printer properties" options well alone and just set the options through PS and the Printer Driver?
I think also I may have to turn my screen brightness way down.
cheers
Steve

[SolsticePhoto]

Steve,
Your setup is virtually the same as mine (I have cs5 and a 4880). I do not set any profiles on the printer rather in the print dialog from PS I select my printer and go to printer settings where I check "custom" and "no color adjustment" (as well as choosing the right paper type etc). Back on the PS print dialog box on the right select "Photoshop Manages colors" and under that the icc profile for your paper.


I often do not use EPOSN papers (Moab) and just use the .icc's for the particular style of paper loaded. I have never loaded a custom .icc but woudl imagine that if you have profiled your printer and a particular paper then you custom profile would be loaded at this point.

HTH
Eric

[Peter De Smidt]

Steve,

In the Edit>Color Settings dialogue, you might want to copy the settings I have in the Color Management Policies area.

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae37/peterdesmidt/colorsettings.jpg

That will keep Photoshop from switching profiles without your knowledge.

Regarding Prophoto, it should be fine as long as you work exclusively with 16 bit files. If you make images for the web, make sure to convert the web image to 8 bit sRGB jpg.

You won't need to set anything in device properties. The Spyder software will take care of that for you.

You shouldn't need to go in the control panel "printer properties" section.

Hope that helps.

[Brian Ellis]

If you read the Adobe paper to which I provided a link in my response to your first message I think you'll find all you need to know (and probably more).

You haven't mentioned the paper you're using (or if you did I missed it). I assume it's an Epson paper. Otherwise you'd need to download a profile for the paper from the paper manufacturer's web site (or by having a custom profile made). But if you use an Epson paper that's unnecessary, the profiles for Epson papers were downloaded when you installed the printer software.

Once your monitor is calibrated you don't need to do anything more except recalibrate it occasionally. Don't change the brightness of the monitor once the monitor is calibrated. If you calibrated correctly Spyder should have set the correct brightness (I don't use Spyder but I've never heard of a calibration method that doesn't set the brightness).

You shouldn't need to do anything more through Printer Properties.

When you open a photograph in Photoshop and click on Edit > Convert to Profile what do you see in Source Space Profile and Destination Space Profile?

It would also be helpful if you'd give us a screen shot of your Color Settings (Edit > Color Settings) or tell us what you see and what options you've chosen in Color Settings where you have an option (you've given a couple of the settings, e.g. dot gain 20%, above but not all of them.

[Peter De Smidt]

Regarding the brightness of the monitor, you're going to want to set it at a level that gives a good representation of how a print will look in your evaluation light. Often, this involves turning the contrast down to about about 50. "Contrast" effects how bright the image is, and "brightness" effects how dark the darks are. Yeah, it's a poor name. Once you get that right, you'll then have to create a new monitor profile with your Spyder. It helps if you work in a room with a fairly constant and low illumination.

[Gary Tarbert]

Steve , I think i can see your problem , because you are talking about printer profiles , Before you go any further remember the printer manages nothing!It's only an order taker, Photoshop manages colors , In PS go to PROOF SETUP select CUSTOM a window will pop up named customise proof condition in device to simulate select the paper you are using , Then set the rendering intent as reccomended by the paper manufacturer ( you can experiment with this usually perceptual or reletive colormetric . Then select simulate paper color. With moniters one of the biggest mistakes people make is they forget a moniter screen is backlit and normally will have a brighter appearance than paper, I have set my moniter to a point where it is set to print values not for movies , On my Eizo this is easy to do as it is a part of the moniters menu system .But on any moniter you should be able to do it by doing this print an image that you are happy with the contrast and brightness . Obviously with same unchanged image on the screen tweak your moniter until you are happy with the match with the print . Remember this is not an exact science as matte papers absorb more light than glossy ones. If i am way off the mark and your issue is more a windows system color management issue then i can't help as i run Mac . Cheers Gary

[Brian Ellis]

In re-reading what I wrote I see that I shouldn't have said not to adjust the brightness of your screen because it will mess up your calibration. It will mess up the calibration but that's not a reason to not adjust the brightness if after calibrating your prints are still too dark. What I should have said was that if you adjust the brightness make sure you recalibrate.

[SteveH]

Hi Guys
There is some really helpful information for me in this thread. I really appreciate it.
I may not get a chance to dig into the printing process again for a few days - off shooting for a while; its great to get out with the 5x4" camera for a few days where it all makes perfect sense.:rolleyes:

Do you have Mechanic's Institutes in the US? I'm starting a project of photographing all the old rundown MI buildings in Victoria (Aus).

I look forward to to using all this info to revise my calibration process soon.

Brian - I will definately turn down the brightness/contrast of my monitor and then re-calibrate. Thanks for the links. I have read Eric Chan's excellent webpage but the Adobe link is new, will peruse it soon.

Peter - I use the same settings except for Prophoto. And I intend to only work in 16 bit but thanks for the warning. Also for clarifying the printer settings issue. BTW is there an optimum Dot Gain for Epsom 3880 with standard inks and gloss paper? I've just left it at 20%.:confused:

Gary - haven't tried soft proofing yet but will try that next. Cheers.

BTW - My monitor is a cheapie AOS 23". It is IPS but doesn't seem to have the display controls of a high end IPS monitor.

cheers
Steve