Looking for a Goerz 3" lens

[mrkauffman]

Hi,

im on a path to find any info possible on a 3" goerz lens that was made. its proven to be very difficult to find.

the lens covers medium format, up to 6x9 and is sharp as a tack.

thats all i know unfortunately, which is why im seeking the help of all you wiseman.

Thanks,
Robert

[Mark Tweed]

Robert,

Perhaps there was a 3" Goerz Dagor or Celor, but I'm not familiar with one. I do have the 3" (75mm) f6 Goerz Rectagon. They are found in older Synchro Compurs or Rapax shutters and their globe-shaped elements barely protrude beyond the front and back of the shutter. The one I have is in a (#2) Synchro Compur which is not much bigger than a Copal 0 and weighs 7.5 oz (and that includes a Technika style lensboard). The lens is a 4 element Gauss design, similar to the Kodak Wide Field Ektars, the Wollensak f12 159mm and the Bausch and Lomb Metrogon. They were originally developed for aerial photography and mapping. Their coverage is 100 degrees, a spec very similar to the modern 6 to 8 element 'wasp-shaped' wide angles but much easier to focus than their dim, f8 ratings. They are sharp, contrasty and easily cover the 4X5 diagonal, but you must stop it down to f16 or f22 to create a crisp image. The downside . . . they are hard to find.

I hope this is helpful.


Mark

[Steven Tribe]

There is a 3" dagor but it was not standard on any camera sold by Goerz.
It would cover 6x9 at small apertures.
Far more common is the 3 1/2 (90mm) dagor which was a standard lens on the small Goerz Tenax type cameras. These are often in bad condition (camera body, that is)and generally unloved so can be bought at lowish prices - unless there are other after the same lens! Shutter are Compound or Dial I think.

The goerz size you are after is 00 = 90mm. This is the standard for all Goerz lenses at this time. There should be a Celor (serie 1B) or a Syntor (serie 1D) on some tenax 6x9 cameras.

[eddie]

i thought i had one. turns out to be a Goerz Aerogar. 1 1/2 inch 38.4 mm f4.5

[mrkauffman]

Mark, you reminded me of something else i knwo about the lens. it was used for aerial mapping photography. i also know its relatively small in size and has a leaf shutter, the type i dont know. would you mind, if you get the chance, posting a picture of said lens you own?

this really is like finding a needle in a haystack because of the limited info i have on the lens.

[Dan Fromm]

eddie, I think that if you'll look closely you'll find that your 1.5"/4.5 Aerogor is a 38/4.5 Biogon made under a USAF contract.

Robert, Goerz also made 3"/4.5 Biogons that were engraved Biogon. They cover 4x5, probably aren't what you were thinking of. Reconnaissance lenses, not really mapping lenses. The Rectagon is described here: http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/goerz_3.html

[John Schneider]

Goerz also made 3"/4.5 Biogons that were engraved Biogon...

The Rectagon is described here: http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/goerz_3.html

Robert, there is a Rectagon on that auction site if you were interested.

And there also is the Goerz Aerotar, but I've only seen them in longer focal lengths (I have a 10-3/4" and I've seen a smaller one, I believe it was a 6" or so).

[Lightbender]

Goerz made a few wide angle lenses.

There is the Hypergon which is an extremely wide angle lens and the 3" lens would probably cover 5x7.

Then there is a hycon which i have seen in arial cameras. These are similar to the biogons. I think someone here has one link (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=458871&postcount=66).

Then of course there is the wide angle dagor and the rectagon as mentioned above.

NONE of these lenses are common.

[Dan Fromm]

Lightbender, I believe that Hycon made aerial cameras, bought lenses for them. Am I mistaken? Your link seems consistent with what I believe.

[Lightbender]

That is likely. And actually I am not sure if they are a biogon design but they sure are similar. They dont look like a metrogon type.

[edp]

There is a 3" dagor but it was not standard on any camera sold by Goerz.
It would cover 6x9 at small apertures.

I have a 75mm dagor (1920s, Germany) which I assumed came off a Tenax, although I've never seen another one so my assumption is baseless. It's tiny, about 10mm in diameter, has been remounted in a 00 synchro compur and apparently coated (all four surfaces reflect slightly blue or lilac).

Not tried it, because I've never got round to making a Bergheil bayonet for it.

[Steven Tribe]

I have found that Goerz did make a camera with the 75mm series III/Dagor as standard. This was the rare Stereo/mono Photo Binocle from around 1900. The later small cameras Roll Tenax and Vest Pocket Tenax (4.5 x 6cm) had 3" f.4.5 Dogmar lenses.

[Dan Fromm]

That is likely. And actually I am not sure if they are a biogon design but they sure are similar. They dont look like a metrogon type.Thanks for posting the images. I have a pile of USAF lens data sheets that includes one for a 3"/4.5 Goerz Biogon. A number of lens-makers built 3" Biogons to USAF specs. The least likely one is Viewlex, who also made 6" Metrogons. The Viewlex Metrogon I bought was badged Viewgon. No kidding.

Cheers,

Dan

[John Schneider]

A number of lens-makers built 3" Biogons to USAF specs. The least likely one is Viewlex, who also made 6" Metrogons. The Viewlex Metrogon I bought was badged Viewgon. No kidding.

Igor's has several of these in shutter (Ilex as I recall), the price is right but the mounting is clumsy, as if the machinist did everything possible to avoid any threading operations.

[mrkauffman]

all this info and help and i still dont know. lol. thank you everyone for the help and suggestions. i know the lens im looking for is extremely rare and very hard to find, hence this thread. ill take a deeper look into everyones link and/or suggestions today and see if i find anything conclusive.

[Geoffrey_5995]

I do have two of these 3" f6.8 Dagors. Both are coated. I purchased them with the idea of using them for Stereo work but haven't gotten around to it yet. They definitely haven't come off folding cameras and don't know what they were originally intended for. I should test one of them on a 6x9 Speed Graphic and it should reach infinity focus. They are very strange little lenses. Rare as they are I would know how to value them. Haven't considered selling one or both but could possibly be open to it if the price were right but would want to test them before selling.

[Dan Fromm]

Re short focal length Dagors, the VM says "Series 111 1900 f6.8 40, 60, 75, 90, 100, 120, 135, 150, 165, 180, 210, 240, 270mm in 1922."