Greets..

[Underaglassbell]

Good afternoon,

Figured it prudent to post a introduction of sorts :)

My name is Dan, I'm 26 and from Wales.

I've had a fondness for photography for about 8 years now.
- Initially it was just casual walk about's with a point and shoot digital, playing around with limited DoF options and less then great manual settings.

December 2005, I purchased a Canon 350D SLR on my way home from work one cold december eve and from that point just fell into photography like a day-dream.

After learning the basics with digital, I started to turn my attention to film and started shooting 35mm and 120.

I think for me it was Infrared that did it.
- I recall seeing my first HIE image and just falling for the 'look' of Infrared film.
Indeed, without question Kodak HIE/EIR is my favourite film (if pressed on the matter) - I can't explain it, I just have this deep affinity for IR film.

Well, a couple of years on and my 350D has been converted to an Infrared only camera, and I pretty much shoot nothing but film, mostly 120.

My workflow is a lot more refined and I have not long made the jump from 120 to 4x5.
I think the fact I have been using fully manual cameras for a couple of years made the transition a lot easier for me, albeit the first time I loaded a 4x5 holder was quite amusing.


My current 4x5 Set-up:

Graflex Speed Graphic [working Focal Plane Shutter]
Aero-Ektar 175mm with JoLo lensboard.
Optar 135mm lens - broken.

Tripod:
Manfrotto 475B with 229 Head

> Looking forward, I really hope to get a Fujinon 135mm f5.6 lens for general purpose
and alternate that with the Ektar and a 90mm lens of sorts.

As I am still building my camera (so to speak) I have only used it once (make sure it was all ok), and despite the horrendous sticky shutter on my Optar, I was able to use the Focal Shutter for my first images:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5090/5249707374_aa7a713d98_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5167/5249694280_595f7613ca_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5042/5252851036_27c6c02a0a_z.jpg


If your interested, you can find my other work on my flickr Page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/underaglassbell/


Kind Regards,
DaN

[Brian C. Miller]

Welcome to the forum! A CLA for your Optar isn't too costly. Most of us do it only when it becomes evident that something's really out of kilter with the shutter.

Good start with the images! If you use just a little bit of font tilt, you'll get the foreground in focus.

I love IR, too. Unfortunately nobody has made a film which comes close to Kodak HIE. There's a couple of emulsions out there, but nothing has HIE's response.

[Underaglassbell]

I'm going to pass on the CLA. While not costly I would rather just put the money toward a multicoated Fujinon 135mm.
- I don't like the shutter on the Optar, and no filter thread.

Font tilt? - hmm I can't say I have explored that area. Does the focus adjust on the ground glass or is it just a cause of tilting then hoping the final result will bring the foreground back into focus?

I have 10/15 sheets of 4x5 HIE and a lot more in 120 and 35mm. I should be good for a couple more years.

I actually like the efke IR film, it's no HIE, but I do like the lack of sharpness and the overall look one can achieve from it. I suspect when the time comes, I will fall back on the efke.

[Roger Cole]

I'm going to pass on the CLA. While not costly I would rather just put the money toward a multicoated Fujinon 135mm.
- I don't like the shutter on the Optar, and no filter thread.

Font tilt? - hmm I can't say I have explored that area. Does the focus adjust on the ground glass or is it just a cause of tilting then hoping the final result will bring the foreground back into focus?

I have 10/15 sheets of 4x5 HIE and a lot more in 120 and 35mm. I should be good for a couple more years.

I actually like the efke IR film, it's no HIE, but I do like the lack of sharpness and the overall look one can achieve from it. I suspect when the time comes, I will fall back on the efke.

You can use either front or back tilt to tilt the focus plane and get the foreground in better focus. Front tilt will not change the relative size of objects in the photo. Back tilt will, making closer objects appear relatively larger, because tilting the back changes the distance of that part of the film from the lens, while tilting the lens doesn't. Some people make too much of this but it is there, and some folks prefer to use back tilt if there's something in the foreground they want to emphasize, a rock or whatever, and front tilt if they don't want that effect.

You can see either very easily on the ground glass. Most books on view cameras cover the basics of camera movements, but I'm sure it's there for the googling on the web now.

I've never shot IR film but become interested in doing so recently. I'll have to try out the Efke. I'm not sure if it's worth buying up any HIE off eBay. The 35mm still isn't too awfully expensive, but I might form an addiction I'm doomed to have to withdraw from!

Welcome to the forum!

EDIT: Oops, just read the post again. I don't think the Graphic has back movements, but if you have the front tilt, it will fix that foreground focus. With those foregrounds being pretty plain it wouldn't matter whether you tilted the front or back anyway.

[Underaglassbell]

Thanks for the tip!
- I will use that the next time im out with my 4x5!


HIE is so expensive on the eBay, but occasionally you can get some quite cheaply around £20 a roll, with a decent expiry (08/09).

I purchased most of mine before it got discontinued, and some more afterward on the eBay, just prior to when the prices started spiralling out of control hah.

The 120 I purchased from a guy in Germany who purchased various rolls of uncut HIE/EIR infrared which he then cut down into 120 and sold for around $24 a roll (EIR) and $12 HIE - Expiry on the EIR is fresher then fresh! He did some in 4x5, but no longer an option (alas).

The 4x5 HIE I have is split, a contact on Flickr sent me some of her HIE for free :) and I purchased a box on eBay, apparently well stored so I'll give it a shot - Ideally 2005+ is the best for HIE, the 4x5 I have is 2001/2003 - Im optimistic I should get a couple of results from it.

The efke is rather cheap all things considered - 50 sheets for around €30 isn't bad at all. It does require a IR filter though, no 25A red like with HIE.

[Roger Cole]

You're right, it IS expensive. :eek:

Last I looked I saw some 35mm for about $20 a roll and thought it wasn't all that bad considering. Now the cheapest on ebay is $90 for three rolls. There are single rolls for asking BIN prices of $50 and $55!

I'll just start out in with something I can continue to get and afford.

Oh, and I'll have to get the IR filter. Just as well as I'd have to get a 25 too. I find a 23A gives similar results with less filter factor so that's what I tend to use for a red filter in normal photography. I use 3" acetate (cheaper and more durable than gels) filters in a holder, but I'm pretty sure I can get an IR that fits the holder, which is good since my LF lenses are oddballs.

[Robert Perrin]

Dan, welcome to the forum. In case you haven't yet explored the movements of a speed graphic, if you have the pacemaker model (with a body release and single knob focal plane shutter setting) the front standard has rise, shift, and tilt; unfortunately it will only tilt backwards (loosen the knobs on either side of the front standard base). To get a front tilt you must drop the bed (press the side struts). To recenter the lens you need to use the rise (knobs on the sides of the front). The drop-bed and tilt were designed to keep the bed from showing with a wide angle lens so the maximum back tilt in this configuration bring the front back to vertical. I can't speak to 4x5's but I can't find any tilt on my 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 anniversary model although it has a drop bed, rise and shift.

[Underaglassbell]

I'll just start out in with something I can continue to get and afford.


Absolutely, your in the position where you have not shot HIE, so don't have anything to compare the efke to. Which is in away a good thing.

I suspect those who are spending $50+ for a roll are doing so as it can be hard to let go of something you like and I have to say HIE, fresh is in short beautiful to behold, mores the pity it is now gone :(

That said, the efke is an Infrared film and In my opinion a VERY under rated one at that. The main difference is that it is slow, very slow, so chances are high you wont be shooting handheld with shutter speeds of 125/f8 in the sun. No more like 1+ second at f16 with the IR filter in play.
- But that is how it's made, it requires the IR to bring out the magic (as it were).

HIE - Handheld
Efke - Tripod (but then, how many people handheld 4x5+, not many I suspect)

The revised efke IR, now has no anti-halation backing. The absence of an anti-halation is critical to achieve the "blooming" effect reminiscent of Kodak HIE Infrared film.

In-short it's the closest yet to HIE in terms of look but it is most definitely it's on film with it's own hoof-print. A possible future classic maybe...

http://www.macodirect.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=IR+820&x=0&y=0



unfortunately it will only tilt backwards (loosen the knobs on either side of the front standard base).

Damn!
- I just went and checked. Just my luck, it only tilts backward :( I was quite looking forward with toying with that as I'm used to 'putting' up with out of focus foregrounds and whatnot coming from 120 & 35mm.
That said, I have a fully working FP shutter which I have to say was my main priority (after a lightproof camera of course).

The bed does drop, but not very far.

Can you by replacement 'fronts'? I.e is it possible to procure a front with a front shift and retro fit it to my Speed Graphic, or is that going to be too much faff
- It is worth noting I'm not exactly au fait with dismantling/reassembling things.

I have purchased a new Graflok back for my Speed, as mine is a little bent and I'm quite confident in simply taking one back off and putting on another :D


DaN

[Roger Cole]

Can you mount it upside down? ;)

Seriously, too bad it apparently doesn't have swing either. My Tech III only has front back tilt, not forward. Most of the time I use back tilt (that is, tilt the back, not tilting the front back which would be the wrong way...) for focus plane correction but on the rare occasions I've preferred front, I've rotated the camera 90 degrees on the tripod (re-rotate the back as needed of course) and used the swing as a tilt.

[Underaglassbell]

Here she is:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/5057796406_d1502ebb17_b.jpg

[Roger Cole]

Absolutely, your in the position where you have not shot HIE, so don't have anything to compare the efke to. Which is in away a good thing.

I suspect those who are spending $50+ for a roll are doing so as it can be hard to let go of something you like and I have to say HIE, fresh is in short beautiful to behold, mores the pity it is now gone :(

That said, the efke is an Infrared film and In my opinion a VERY under rated one at that. The main difference is that it is slow, very slow, so chances are high you wont be shooting handheld with shutter speeds of 125/f8 in the sun. No more like 1+ second at f16 with the IR filter in play.
- But that is how it's made, it requires the IR to bring out the magic (as it were).

HIE - Handheld
Efke - Tripod (but then, how many people handheld 4x5+, not many I suspect)

The revised efke IR, now has no anti-halation backing. The absence of an anti-halation is critical to achieve the "blooming" effect reminiscent of Kodak HIE Infrared film.

In-short it's the closest yet to HIE in terms of look but it is most definitely it's on film with it's own hoof-print. A possible future classic maybe...

http://www.macodirect.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=IR+820&x=0&y=0



Damn!
- I just went and checked. Just my luck, it only tilts backward :( I was quite looking forward with toying with that as I'm used to 'putting' up with out of focus foregrounds and whatnot coming from 120 & 35mm.
That said, I have a fully working FP shutter which I have to say was my main priority (after a lightproof camera of course).

The bed does drop, but not very far.

Can you by replacement 'fronts'? I.e is it possible to procure a front with a front shift and retro fit it to my Speed Graphic, or is that going to be too much faff
- It is worth noting I'm not exactly au fait with dismantling/reassembling things.

I have purchased a new Graflok back for my Speed, as mine is a little bent and I'm quite confident in simply taking one back off and putting on another :D


DaN

I don't know of a way to replace the front. OTOH, basic cameras with more movements are not necessarily very expensive. That's a beautiful Graphic. I'd keep it and put away what money I could toward another camera, and use each where appropriate. My old Tech III looks like it's been through hell and back, but it works. I do plan on getting something else soonish, but really want to get the darkroom up and going again first.

True enough about shooting 4x5 off a tripod anyway, but the VERY slow speed with the Efke film and IR filter can really get into the range of reciprocity failure and complicate already iffy exposure, not to mention causing problems with anything in the scene moving - tree limbs in a breeze, for example. I also would like to shoot it in 120 in my TLR, and that would ideally be handheld.

Oh well, I have some time before I'll get around to it. Too many other things to do trying to get the darkroom set up again.

[Underaglassbell]

I've only just started my 4x5 adventure; at this point I'm adding lenses - I suspect when I get a couple more lenses I may look at getting another camera.

I have to say I would really like this Wista 4x5 Cherrywood
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/blackfloorwhitesky/PalmHandlerashx.jpg

Regarding the Efke, from what I have seen and information I have been past one shouldn't have to worry to much about reciprocity failure, as the IR 'Wood Effect' kicks in with longer exposures, it has quite a high IR sensitivity, not as much as HIE but enough for a wow factor.

Movement can be an issue, but it can also add a lot to a scene - I started my IR antics with a Nikon D70 due to the hot mirror allowing IR light to pass with the aid of a IR filter. That usually required 30+ second exposures in the day time, which usually meant some motion was captured.

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs40/o/2009/262/9/3/9338914c113bb54ef9149472f0927fa2.jpg

I took this image with my D70 and a IR filter, notice the movement in the corn, personally I feel this is a lot nicer then the shot I took where the wind was not blowing and there was no movement.
- For the most I found the moment more of a bonus then a hindrance; Personal preference of course.

If you want handheld IR for your TLR, look out for some Konica IR film. ISO 50, and plays nicely with the 25A around 1/30 at f11 in the daytime 1/60 f8 - so perfectly usable, also yields beautiful results despite often having an expiry of 2001

[Brian C. Miller]

And now for exciting action pictures featuring the (drum roll...) Graflex Super Graphic!

(crickets chirping)

Hey! Quit yawning like that!

The Super Graphic has front forward tilt, but no drop. Your Speed has no forward tilt, but I'll show you how that's overcome.

The first picture shows the camera with a straight setup.
Next, I've tilted the front standard as far forward as it will go. This is way beyond what is needed in a normal landscape scene.
Next, I've straightened the standard back up, and I've dropped the bed. See how there is about the same, mabe a bit more, front tilt? You can do this with your Speed.
The last picture shows the front standard tilted back, straightening it with the rear. This makes for some drop, same as with the Speed.

On the subject of IR, if you start developing your own film, the Efke works well with Pyro developer. We have lots of threads discussing it. Check with other photographers in your area on where to get some premixed formula, or in powdered kit form. I use PMK (Pyro Metol Kodalk) (http://stores.photoformulary.com/-strse-28/PMK-%28Pyro-Metol-Kodalk%29/Detail.bok), myself. The Efke picks up a very nice stain.

I use B+W 092 or Hoya R72 with my IR. These are about as dark as you can possibly get with the non-Kodak film and get reasonable speeds. A couple of guys have posted about using the opaque filters, but the exposure times are rather long.

[Robert Perrin]

Dan, first thing I'd try is dropping the bed. You may well find that that is enough tilt for most needs. But there are a few other routes. Not really practical nor the least bit handy and will look very peculiar to passers-by but you could mount you camera upside down. A frame to hold the camera upside-down would need to be fairly large and heavy, even if made of wood (which your graphic's body is). It could be done with a very sturdy (heavy) tripod with a side-arm or a center arm that will tilt to the side. Much more practical is turning the front standard supports around. I've seen directions for doing that but not sure if on this forum or elsewhere. The down-side is that you cannot bring the standard parallel to the film plane if the bed is dropped out of the way for a WA lens. Finally--and you'd need to research this properly--the Super Graphic front standard LOOKS like it would fit a Pacemaker. It has forward and back tilt plus swing along with rise and shift although none of the movements are very extensive. You would probably have to buy a Super Graphic to get the standard so there'd be little reason to do the surgery. The Super has a revolving back and all metal body but no focal plane shutter; the Super Speed model only has a faster BTL shutter. Bottom line is that I'd second the suggestion that you keep the Graphic as is and invest in a field or monopole camera (some of which go for quite modest prices).

[Pete Watkins]

Hi Dan,
I used to call at Newtown a few years ago (during my working life) and it's a nice part of the country.
Welcome to the Forum. If you've got that Speed Graphic with a working focal plane shutter you could look for Repromaster and Escofot Ultragon lenses. They'ry very cheap because they are very difficult to mount into shutters but in my opinion they're very sharp multi coated lenses similar to the G-Clarons.
I've got a Wista 45DX and love it but you might miss the focal plane shutter.
Pete.

[Underaglassbell]

And now for exciting action pictures featuring the (drum roll...) Graflex Super Graphic!

(crickets chirping)

Hey! Quit yawning like that!

The Super Graphic has front forward tilt, but no drop. Your Speed has no forward tilt, but I'll show you how that's overcome...


Hah, Thanks! - I will try that approach on my next outing!
Incidentally it will be next week when I plan to shoot some sheets of the Efke Aura 4x5 IR film :D



On the subject of IR, if you start developing your own film, the Efke works well with Pyro developer. We have lots of threads discussing it. Check with other photographers in your area on where to get some premixed formula, or in powdered kit form. I use PMK (Pyro Metol Kodalk) (http://stores.photoformulary.com/-strse-28/PMK-%28Pyro-Metol-Kodalk%29/Detail.bok), myself. The Efke picks up a very nice stain.


No plans as yet to start developing my own film - My Lab (Peak Imaging UK) uses Kodak X-Tol for B&W development. The examples of Efke developed this way look fine. It's certainly great for HIE which I have been sending them the past few years.



I use B+W 092 or Hoya R72 with my IR. These are about as dark as you can possibly get with the non-Kodak film and get reasonable speeds. A couple of guys have posted about using the opaque filters, but the exposure times are rather long.

I have a R72 for HIE and a 25A for HIE/Konica
For Colour Infrared EIR I use a B+W 099 filter and sometimes a Tiffen 12 or Hoya K2

R72 for HIE is a bit over kill and the 25A is (IMHO) the better choice, as such I can't say I've had any interest to go any deeper then a R72, but I can understand why some do.



Dan, first thing I'd try is dropping the bed. You may well find that that is enough tilt for most needs.


I will try dropping the bed first and see how it goes; I don't really want to go cutting into my Speed graphic too much. Once my replacement Graflok back is installed, I dare say that will be it in terms of customisation.


Hi Dan,
I used to call at Newtown a few years ago (during my working life) and it's a nice part of the country.
Welcome to the Forum. If you've got that Speed Graphic with a working focal plane shutter you could look for Repromaster and Escofot Ultragon lenses. They'ry very cheap because they are very difficult to mount into shutters but in my opinion they're very sharp multi coated lenses similar to the G-Clarons.
I've got a Wista 45DX and love it but you might miss the focal plane shutter.
Pete.

Thanks, Newtown is a nice part of Wales, we are surrounded by valleys and green landscapes - A good /base/ to be sure!

I will have a look into those lenses. I plan on getting the Wista later on this summer - The fact my FP Shutter is working on my Speed means that should I want to shoot with a shutter-less lens I could always fall back on the Graflex and for other times switch to my Wista.

MY Tripod / Head combination should cover up to 12Kg which I hope will be ok with a Wista and lens :)


Regards all,

DaN

[Vick Vickery]

Welcome to group therapy! :) That Speed is a fun beastie to play with...have fun with it!