TMax RS developer as "one-shot"

[icanthackit]

I've looked around quite a bit both on this site and on others through Google but nothing I can find is really clear.

I've been finding my development times on the massive dev chart and my question is based on the stock solution idea that's on there.

As I mentioned in the title, I don't want to use this developer as a replenishment system, I simply want to use it to avoid this dichroic fog that apparently can accompany normal tmax developer used with sheet film. I bought the smaller size at the local photo store, I believe it says it makes a gallon of stock solution. It comes with Part A in a plastic bottle, and Part B in a very small pouch. I believe my first move is to mix B into A, but what about when I want to use the developer?

http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=TMax+100&Developer=TMax+RS&mdc=Search

...that's the link for using tmax100 along with tmaxRS developer. It mentions a stock dilution. I've heard a lot about 1+9 with this developer, and while the chart mentions 1+9, I don't think that's what I'm looking for. If I have my plastic bottle (~757mL) which includes Part B and Part A, and I want to make the "stock" dilution, do I mix this A+B mix 1+9 with water? I don't want to mix the whole thing in one big gallon jug and would rather mix it from the smaller bottle as I need it. Then I just would be disposing of the used developer after each use.

Thanks!

Andrew

[PViapiano]

Yes, once you mix A+B, you dilute it to the working solution, which is commonly 1:9. Just mix as needed...

[Roger Cole]

Humm. I've used a tiny graduated cylinder to measure a few ml of part B and mix smaller amounts of working solution when needed. It would be a LOT easier to just dump the little bottle of B (I bought the gallon size so it has 15ml I think of B) into the A bottle and mix. I figured if they were packed separately there was a reason and this would probably negatively impact storage life. Does it keep pretty well if I do this? I'm sure it would be better than mixing the total gallon, of course.

[Heroique]

If I want to make the “stock” dilution, do I mix this A+B mix 1+9 with water?

Andrew,

T-Max rs mixing instructions are naturally misleading, but I might have a simple answer for you. Once you mix A+B w/ water per Kodak’s instructions, you’ve created both your 1:9 “working” solution, and/or your 1:9 “stock” solution. I should repeat that: it’s both, and you can use it either way.

Depending on your work habits, you may wish to “mix from concentrate” each session; alternatively, you might mix some for stocking. If for stocking, the next time you need it, you’d simply pull it from the shelf and use it immediately as your 1:9 working solution. No mixing required – that is, unless you want to dilute it further – for example, for compensation effects…

Many people use T-Max rs as a one-shot solution. That is, at the beginning of each session, they mix the appropriate amount directly from the concentrate, or from their stock solution. They might want 1:9, or they might want greater dilution. But in every case, once they’re done, they dispose of the solution. It doesn’t get replenished.

Me, I make stock solutions and use Kodak’s “replenishment” process.

Good for the environment!

[memorris]

I mix A & B together when I open the container and have never had a problem with shelf life. It is my understanding that they are shipped apart because some uses are better without the additive. I mix for each batch of film and discard after each use. It is the way I was taught to achieve the best consistency.

[Drew Wiley]

I use it one-shot for very critical color separation work with TMax films, where there
must be absolute repeatability and virtually no fog whatsoever.

[jeroldharter]

With TMAX RS, simply pour the small container into the large container. When you are ready to process, just mix 1:7 or whatever proportion you choose.

[Roger Cole]

I mix A & B together when I open the container and have never had a problem with shelf life. It is my understanding that they are shipped apart because some uses are better without the additive. I mix for each batch of film and discard after each use. It is the way I was taught to achieve the best consistency.


With TMAX RS, simply pour the small container into the large container. When you are ready to process, just mix 1:7 or whatever proportion you choose.

Awesome! I never saw the dichroic fog from the regular stuff but always seemed to get nicer results with RS. I can dispense with the little graduated cylinder. Even if it is cool to be able to measure accurately down to a half milliliter, it's still fiddly!

[Heroique]

...that's the link for using tmax100 along with tmax rs developer.

BTW, T-Max 100 + T-Max rs is my “desert island” film/dev combination. ;)

If this combo ever disappeared from the film market, it would be as painful to me as the demise of Polaroid Type 55. I might not be able to survive that kind of blow again!

If you can, be sure to come back & share scans of your film development results, no matter which mixing ratio you use. I’m sure everyone will enjoy the smooth-silky “feel” of your images.

[BetterSense]

Once you mix A+B w/ water per Kodak’s instructions, you’ve created both your 1:9 “working” solution, and/or your 1:9 “stock” solution. I should repeat that: it’s both, and you can use it either way.

So Freeystyle sells Tmax RS "to make 1 gallon". Does that mean it makes 1 gallon, which you can dilute 1:9, or does that mean it makes 1 gallon even after it's been diluted 1:9?

It's like $13, so if that only makes 1 gallon of working solution, that's a pretty expensive developer to use 1-shot.

[icanthackit]

Thanks for all the replies! I feel like it'd be more productive to actually talk to somebody in person but nobody around here knows of all this stuff, or those that do don't work at photo stores.

I've seen 1:7 and 1:9. My problem has to do with getting the right development time.

Could anybody recommend a developing time for tmax100 film with tmaxRS mixed directly from concentrate?

My problem is that I assume the massive dev chart times that say "stock" assume that I've already mixed the concentrate with water to make 1 gallon of stock solution. As far as I've guessed, if I make one gallon using the whole concentrated mix of A and B, then it would be closer to 1:4, wouldn't it? Since the concentrate of A+B is right around 26oz and a gallon is something like 128oz, right?

Andrew

[icanthackit]

I think I just found something that helped.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=8352

that was in the similar threads below, which I didn't see when I was searching naturally. I wish they'd make a different name for this developer since searching tmax rs or anything similar brings me tons of results about the film.

Now just to find the development times for 1:9 from concentrate.

@BetterSense, the thread link I just posted says indeed that kodaks times are 1:4, so using a gallon, while 1:9 is a greater dilution than kodak's times. It should make a little more than a gallon at that dilution, correct? It should give over 2 gallons of ready developer if you were to mix it all 1:9 for some crazy reason, right?

Andrew

[PViapiano]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/articles/sexton-tmax.html

[Drew Wiley]

Just be aware that greater degrees of dilution seem to introduce a little more sag into
the characteristic curve - generally no big deal, but once you start working with a certain dilution, changing it later might have some surprises.

[Roger Cole]

I think I just found something that helped.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=8352

that was in the similar threads below, which I didn't see when I was searching naturally. I wish they'd make a different name for this developer since searching tmax rs or anything similar brings me tons of results about the film.

Now just to find the development times for 1:9 from concentrate.

@BetterSense, the thread link I just posted says indeed that kodaks times are 1:4, so using a gallon, while 1:9 is a greater dilution than kodak's times. It should make a little more than a gallon at that dilution, correct? It should give over 2 gallons of ready developer if you were to mix it all 1:9 for some crazy reason, right?

Andrew

Most people really mean 1+4 and 1+9 when they say 1:4 and 1:9. 1:4 actually means one part concentrate to four parts total solution, while 1+4 means one part concentrate PLUS four parts water, so 1+4 = 1:5.

So oddly enough, 1+9 actually makes exactly twice as much working solution as 1+4; 1+9 results in ten parts working solution while 1+4 makes five parts working solution.

I've always just used it at 1+4 but I may try the 1+9. It is somewhat expensive but given the amount I have time use, that's really not too important. (Plus, one odd seldom mentioned advantage of getting into flying is that it makes ALL your other hobbies look positively cheap! :eek: )

[Heroique]

So Freeystyle sells Tmax RS “to make 1 gallon.” Does that mean it makes 1 gallon, which you can dilute 1:9 [?]…

Short answer is Yes. If you mix it to one gallon, you’ve created an approximate 1+4 ratio (5 total parts). If you mix this w/ an equal portion of water (1+1), you’re mixing the 5 parts of this “gallon” solution (one part of which is A+B concentrate), to 5 parts of water. Now you have 1+9 (or, 10 total parts, one of which has remained the A+B concentrate). This 1+9 solution is typically my “stock” solution described in my longer post above. However, Kodak would technically call their stronger 1+4 solution the stock solution. This all sounds confusing, I realize. What you start with in your gallon of 1+4 solution is what Kodak wants you to use in their published time tables for this developer. However, what many people do instead is create 1+9. Their development times are, naturally, longer than what Kodak recommends for the 1+4 solution.

Roger: there’s reason to agree w/ you, but most film photographers will say 1:4 is the same thing as 1+4. That is, in either case, it’s one part [x] and 4 parts [y], for a total of 5 parts if you count-up all the parts together.

[Roger Cole]

Roger: there’s reason to agree w/ you, but most film photographers will say 1:4 is the same thing as 1+4. That is, in either case, it’s one part [x] and 4 parts [y], for a total of 5 parts if you count-up all the parts together.

I know that's the common usage in film photography. Chemists wouldn't agree, and since we're basically doing chemistry here I think it's incorrect, but so common that unless someone explains otherwise I assume when they write "x:y" they mean x+y.

I was really just explaining why 1+9 (or 1:9 if you must ;) ) is twice as dilute as 1+4 (1:4) rather than slightly more so as it might appear at first glance.

[EdWorkman]

When I first tried Tmax RS years ago, I figured that the little package was separated from the big package because if they were combined the complete developer would begin to deteriorate. I called Kodak to ask what's in the little package. Beyond MSDS information I could learn nada, so i went with my first assumption realizing that Kodak wants one to succeed and makes instructions as conservative as they can. I mixed concentrate directly to final dilution for one-shot use-tossing the little pack in the trash. My darkroom activity is very sporadic so I figured stock would go bad if mixed by the rules. I did a 120 coupla rolls comparing TMY to TX[400] at Sunny Sixteen and was satisfied there were no gross differences nor pitfalls in my madness. Later I tried and liked oneshot Xtol and am glad I kept the original instructions and my notes for 1:3 dilution, so I haven't TMY'd in a few years.
Off topic- yes I did suffer 1-liter pack failure once, so I mix the 5 liter stock in a 4 liter wine jug [who the heck has a 5 liter jug and I live in wine country] and vary the proportions to attain a final 1:2 for sheets and 1:3 for rolls.

[evan clarke]

Use everything one shot, it's the best way to be consistent.