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View Full Version : A fool & his money will soon be parted



Louis Pacilla
15-Mar-2011, 13:55
Check this out.. OH well. A fool & his money

http://cgi.ebay.com/HUGE-DARLOT-PETZVAL-PORTRAIT-BRASS-LENS-8X10-11X14-/120695340835?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item1c1a00bf23

This just blows my mind. What's left of it anyhow.:)

Bill_1856
15-Mar-2011, 14:27
I take it that you're not of the soft-focus persuasion? Or are you just bitter because some other fool outbid you? :-)

goamules
15-Mar-2011, 14:27
These poor, ignorant buyers....

Vaughn
15-Mar-2011, 14:33
Too bad someone "clean it up" Looks like it had a nice patina at one time.

goamules
15-Mar-2011, 14:38
Too bad someone "clean it up" Looks like it had a nice patina at one time.

Who cares about patina on a common magic lantern projector lens? It's like saying you should keep the patina on your $19 walmart charcoal grill. They made tens of thousands of these projector lenses. In any month there will be 3 to 6 for sale...and this is just on Ebay. Why someone would pay almost $2,000 for one, when you can get a different one from any other seller for under a hundred, is beyond me.

I've got a really nice, patina'd charcoal grill to sell, probably from the wetplate era....

Jim Galli
15-Mar-2011, 14:50
An $1800 f5 projector lens! I can die now. I've seen everything. Is he shrinking that Kodak Canister in photoshop??? I think it's about the size of my little fingernail at this point :D:D

Steven Tribe
15-Mar-2011, 14:53
This is quite a serious business. Quite a lot of people were out to get this - not just a couple of people who lost their better judgement at a heated moment. Obviously, the lister must accept some responsibility: My guess is that he is quite shocked/alarmed rather than elated. It will be interesting to see if he screws down the hype now and is more realistic in the descriptions.

goamules
15-Mar-2011, 14:56
Steven, he somehow, supposedly, gets fresh bidders to bid these prices on all his magic lantern sales. They usually do better than when he infrequently sells a real camera lens like a Voigtlander or Dallmeyer. Pretty fishy. The same week, every time, there will be a few much higher quality brass lenses, that go for a fraction of what his projector lenses do....

Just one example from a couple days ago, Derogy 9" for $405: 290541199963

Hmmm...would I rather have a nice, 1870s Derogy petzval, or a lens that was stuck on the front of a tin projector by several factories in 1900? The attraction of magic lantern lenses used to be that they were forgotten, but useful and affordable alternatives to real camera lenses.

Vaughn
15-Mar-2011, 15:03
Who cares about patina on a common magic lantern projector lens? ...

My goodness, I just like a nice patina....no need to go nuclear on me...:p

goamules
15-Mar-2011, 15:12
Does chrome patina?

Steven Tribe
15-Mar-2011, 15:13
Detection of "bogus bidding help" has become more difficult since bidder identity, e**y history and feedback has been withdrawn. I can't see anything odd about the bidding pattern and participants here.

However, I know for certain that it has occured in "our" category within the past year!

Jim Galli
15-Mar-2011, 15:52
This is 90% sour grapes, mia culpa. I have the same lens with factory waterhouse stop and it says "Portrait" right on it, and mine won't fetch $500. :confused:grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!:mad:

Here's a neat little 4 inch Petzval that I'm going to sell

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/4SaleRR/4Petz.jpg

Form a line and keep order please. I'll start the bidding at $1500

Dan Fromm
15-Mar-2011, 16:16
Go kiss the Blarney Stone, Jim.

Vaughn
15-Mar-2011, 16:20
Does chrome patina?

Probably not, but there is a photo of the lens that shows that the brass was shined up except where the writing was. It clearly shows the before and after clean up...and makes mute the seller's contention that the lens would make a good display piece.

Richard Rankin
15-Mar-2011, 16:26
This guy has bidders, day in and day out and gets top dollar nearly every time. But it only takes 2 people with money to drive prices crazy. He just seems to know how to get them to bid on his auctions.

As much as I would like to sell stuff for 10 times its value myself, I think that load of text he always uses and his high feedback gives him the aura of expertise, stability and believability that people will pay for. I don't know this seller personally, so have no idea if he IS an expert, but I think he has hit on a very effective selling technique for Ebay. dagor77 did it with his bizarre stories, and this seller does it with what appears to be an overload of helpful information, which, if you delve into it, is pretty generic stuff for the most part.

I add his auctions to my watch list for the entertainment value of seeing the final prices...

Two23
15-Mar-2011, 20:23
There are always people who don't research before they buy. I once considered buying something from the guy, and I based it on his 3800 sales a 100% feedback. I did my homework and ended up buying from Garrett. Ironically, a guy with zero positive feedback.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk57K4OGrAg

Kent in SD

goamules
15-Mar-2011, 20:35
Huh? Zero positive? I've sold on Ebay since 1998 with 100% positive actually...! And a lot of happy buyers here too. I must not get what you mean, but I know you like the Derogy I sold you! We'll have to unload those makers and buy up all the magic lantern lenses we can find!

Mark Sawyer
15-Mar-2011, 21:06
Actually, the Darlot Magic Lantern lenses imported by Thompson are pretty nice. I have two smaller ones, and would have strongly considered buying this one for the $200 or so it is worth. I think instead I'll just be happy for the lucky buyer. :)

mdm
15-Mar-2011, 23:33
I think one day you will all realise the emperor has no clothes. All the mutual backslapping and xxxx sucking that goes on here, most of all amongst the self proclaimed lens connisouers, means nothing in the real world and all theese very expensive lenses are worth only what someone will pay for them. Certainly, there is no harm in enjoying them, but lets call a spade a spade. Its a case of extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds, like the tulip bubble, and you are all complicit.

Scotty230358
16-Mar-2011, 02:02
This is 90% sour grapes, mia culpa. I have the same lens with factory waterhouse stop and it says "Portrait" right on it, and mine won't fetch $500. :confused:grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!:mad:

Here's a neat little 4 inch Petzval that I'm going to sell

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/4SaleRR/4Petz.jpg

Form a line and keep order please. I'll start the bidding at $1500

Sorry Jim I'll pass on this one. I don't like the lack of patina. :D

GPS
16-Mar-2011, 02:27
This is quite a serious business. Quite a lot of people were out to get this - not just a couple of people who lost their better judgement at a heated moment. Obviously, the lister must accept some responsibility: My guess is that he is quite shocked/alarmed rather than elated. It will be interesting to see if he screws down the hype now and is more realistic in the descriptions.

What hype? The guy clearly and honestly stated at the begining it was a magic lantern lens. That there are fools capable of giving him $$$$ for that is entirely their ignorance problem.

jumanji
16-Mar-2011, 02:31
Maybe he is also the guy who buy this lens: http://cgi.ebay.com/Bausch-Lomb-Protar-IV-12x15-lens-f12-5-f90-BRASS-/140520905963?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item20b7b2dceb :D

GPS
16-Mar-2011, 04:52
Detection of "bogus bidding help" has become more difficult since bidder identity, e**y history and feedback has been withdrawn. I can't see anything odd about the bidding pattern and participants here.

However, I know for certain that it has occured in "our" category within the past year!

Yes, it is more difficult but not always impossible. The behaviour and re-listings of "sold" (to a bogus bidder) items gives them away. I was surprised recently to see even a reputable firm using this tactic. Obviously, the firms with thousands of sales in their history know all about using bogus bidding...

Fred Heming
16-Mar-2011, 05:04
Maybe he is also the guy who buy this lens: http://cgi.ebay.com/Bausch-Lomb-Protar-IV-12x15-lens-f12-5-f90-BRASS-/140520905963?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item20b7b2dceb :D

Protar IV this size might be another story.

Jim Galli
16-Mar-2011, 05:08
Protar IV this size might be another story.

385mm that covers 16X20 is milk and honey in Asia these days. That one seems legit. Rare, and even rarer in that shape.

eddie
16-Mar-2011, 05:55
buy my stuff. it sells for less than market.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290542111261&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT

i should have polished it!

goamules
16-Mar-2011, 06:52
Eddie, your sale is exactly what I'm talking about. Great lens/sells cheap - cheap lens/sells great. I've got a nice, almost mint Hermagis petzval that I don't need. I'm afraid to risk Ebay because it will probably sell for under what I have in it. Because it's pretty, from a famous maker, fast, lots of coverage, with flange, convertible hood, and 95% original varnish. Probably go for $100! If it were a chromed projector lens with a funky flange and slow speed, probably go for $1800.

eddie
16-Mar-2011, 07:48
I think one day you will all realise the emperor has no clothes. All the mutual backslapping and xxxx sucking that goes on here, most of all amongst the self proclaimed lens connisouers, means nothing in the real world and all theese very expensive lenses are worth only what someone will pay for them. Certainly, there is no harm in enjoying them, but lets call a spade a spade. Its a case of extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds, like the tulip bubble, and you are all complicit.


What hype? The guy clearly and honestly stated at the begining it was a magic lantern lens. That there are fools capable of giving him $$$$ for that is entirely their ignorance problem.


Probably not, but there is a photo of the lens that shows that the brass was shined up except where the writing was. It clearly shows the before and after clean up...and makes mute the seller's contention that the lens would make a good display piece.

eddie
16-Mar-2011, 07:53
Well I am having trouble getting my I phone to scroll on the previous page.

I agree with mdm and GPS above. I have always said This about geoff's auctions. He starts them low with nr. Buyer/ bidders set the price.

Vaugh, after looking at the photos it looks to me that the lens hS it's original laquer! Wow! The laquer seems to be missing near the writing. Not the other way around. But I could be wrong. Maybe i will just ask geoff. *gasp*

Hugo Zhang
16-Mar-2011, 08:30
My gut feeling tells me the lucky buyer is from China with limited understanding of English and a deep pocket and using a 1620 camera. In his wild excitement he overbidded and thought it was a bargin at $1,800 for a nice portrait lens for his camera, of course until he read this thread. Yes, he frequents this forum, but really does not know the difference between a real Petzval and magic lantern lens. I mean, not too much difference on the ground glass for the unexperienced eyes.

GPS
16-Mar-2011, 10:14
That is indeed a plausible theory. In such a case his pocket won't feel any difference but his 1620 film can get quite some excitement. And the seller is happy. An ideal happy end...

Douglas Henderson
16-Mar-2011, 10:24
There appears to be some weight to attaching a good story to an Ebay sale. In contrast, I recently bought on Ebay a Caltar N II 240mm F5.6 lens in near mint condition for $250.00 and a beautiful Fujinon W 210 (most recent model) for $190.00.

Years ago, with my then meager finances, these lenses were untouchable.

Vaughn
16-Mar-2011, 10:35
Vaugh, after looking at the photos it looks to me that the lens hS it's original laquer! Wow! The laquer seems to be missing near the writing. Not the other way around. But I could be wrong.

You might be right, I am not sure -- but there seems to be a couple indentations that may have gotten missed in the polishing -- and thus retain the same darker patina that is around the lettering.

But if you are correct, I wonder why the original laquer wold have been removed around the lettering .

Vaughn

PS -- but in the end, if the buyer and seller are both happy (and even if one isn't) I don't care. The money is chump change to some, and greater than some's monthly income.

CCHarrison
16-Mar-2011, 13:11
buy my stuff. it sells for less than market.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290542111261&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT

i should have polished it!

Ditto Eddie. I cant seem to sell a perfectly nice Spencer Port-land for a measly $ 1,499 !!! Maybe I should have GB sell it for me :)

Dan