New toy - a Star Camera Co. 10x12!

[Scott --]

My new project ('cause I have time for it...:p) arrived today - a Star Camera Company 10x12" view camera (http://wp.me/pWENv-4P). In very good shape, with three holders. The unique rise/fall is based on a tambour panel, which needs some attention. Rest of it is icing on the cake.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5251/5530024410_1aa07102f9.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5530024410/)
New toy... (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5530024410/) by Scott -- (http://www.flickr.com/people/scott--/), on Flickr

Not sure how much spit-shining I'll do on this one - I'm tempted to give it a gingerly cleaning and get on with it...

Stay tuned...

[Steven Tribe]

I think it might need new bellows! Lucky again - the square type!

[Michael Roberts]

Scott,
Looks great!

Post more photos!

What are the specs--bellows length? Weight?

Interesting design--a folder with a cut-out base??

[Jim C.]

Nice !
That tambour rise and fall is very interesting, is it friction or is there a lock somewhere
to hold it ?

[Scott --]

Thanks, guys. I'm excited. I'll get more photos up soon.


I think it might need new bellows! Lucky again - the square type!

Steven, I need to check, but I think there's a slight taper to these bellows. But, yep, gonna be replaced. Sending the originals and frames off to Wales likely next week. Need to decide on color - black, red, or blue. Hmm...


Scott,
What are the specs--bellows length? Weight?

Interesting design--a folder with a cut-out base??

Michael, I'll throw it on a scale today, but it's pretty robust. I think the shipping box, with three holders, was around 27 pounds. Has just about 30" of draw. I'm just really happy it's got the front tilt.


Nice !
That tambour rise and fall is very interesting, is it friction or is there a lock somewhere
to hold it ?

Jim, the tambour is an interesting design, and may've been an attempt to keep the bellows design simple and less likely to sag. There's very little (if any) taper, and instead of a small board moving up and down with the rise, the tambour acts as a screen for the whole interior. And it has a locking knob - it actually raises and lowers with a turning knob.

Now, one of the tambour slats was loose and came off after unpacking. I've since removed that whole tambour panel, and can't fit the slat back in. I think what was causing it to seize was shrinkage of the leather backing, causing the panel to curl. With the one slat out, it's much more flexible and seems like it'll work better. I may take a hand plane and thin the slat and fit it back in. The curling caused some damage to the leather backing at the top of the panel; I think I'm going to flip it end-for-end and reinstall it. Should fix the problem, and when flat, I don't think there'll be any light leakage. That's the plan, anyway. And I think the leather'll get some Bick 4, too.

[Jay DeFehr]

Great project! I have a couple of 10x12 holders, and I'm planning an extension back for my 'dorff. I think 10x12 is a great format, and so is 6x10 (Golden Mean). I plan to use ortho lith or X-ray film, and I found some Chinese 10x12 paper to match. Am I coming off cheap?

[Scott --]

Not cheap at all, Jay! Just practical. And I want to know where you're getting film and paper in this size!

[Scott --]

Okay, a few more details, complete with photos:

First, it's too big for my Slik Master Classic:

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd359/smpsweeps/IMG_1275.jpg

This one'll live on the Ries.

Second, in order to minimize the size of the extension bed, there are brass strips on the bed with little detents every few inches:

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd359/smpsweeps/IMG_1278.jpg

There are two locking tabs on the front standard, one on either side, that snap into the detents. The tabs are tightened against the strips then by means of knobs at the top of the standard. A little slower to set up, maybe, but makes this behemoth a little more compact.

The ground glass is gridded, and the grid is silk screened on:

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd359/smpsweeps/IMG_1279.jpg

And, a unique feature of this camera, the bottom of the back is angled:

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd359/smpsweeps/IMG_1280.jpg

I think this allows for back tilt when the rear box is moved forward a bit. Regardless, it keeps the camera from sitting upright.

As near as I can measure, the bellows aren't tapered. I measure a slight difference (maybe 1/4") between front and rear, but the bellows are in very poor shape, and I think this is just error. When they come out, a measurement of the frames will be more indicative. And the camera, without lens or holders, weighs in at 14.5 pounds, which, I think, isn't bad for such a beast.

The removed bottom tambour panel is in clamps right now, tacking down some loose strips. The separated strip is staying off the panel for now...

[Jay DeFehr]

Scott,

See the links below for two kinds of film and one paper, all cheap...errr....inexpensive!

I have a project in mind for this kit. I work 1/2 the time here in Alaska and spend the other 1/2 at home in Idaho, soon to be Seattle. I plan to make one exposure at home, and another in Alaska, on the same sheet of film, so that each resulting negative will reference both halves of my life. It's technically challenging, but I have a strategy involving indexing each composition on a clear plastic sheet laid over the GG, and kept with the holder. I'll use my 'dorff with extension back at home, and I'll build a simple box camera to keep at work in Alaska, so I'll just carry the lens and film holders back and forth. My low contrast developer is working well for me:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jay_defehr/5521421621/

and I'm getting comfortable working with this type of film.

For 6x10, since I'll be using ortho film, I think I'll start by simply securing the 1/2 sheet of 10x12 in the middle of the 10x12 holder. Ultimately, I'd like to build some 6x10 holders, and even a 6x10 camera, but I've got a lot on my plate at the moment.

Enjoy your big, beautiful camera. I look forward to seeing it in refurbished condition.


http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulorlifi10x1.html
http://xrayexpress2-px.rtrk.com/product.php?productid=16194&cat=253&page=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/LUCKY-10x12-RC-2-Photographic-Paper-254x305mm-50-sheet-/360350919972?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e696ad24

[Scott --]

Jay, that's ortho lith film?! I thought that'd give very little in the way of grayscale. You're gonna have to give me more detail on that sometime...

Okay, question fer y'all: I've done a little work on the camera, and I swear that the metalwork is copper. Either plated or solid, it's definitely not straight brass. Has a nice, even, dark patina (not verdigris, though). I'm not polishing the metal. But has anyone heard of any cameras manufactured using copper?

[Colin Graham]

From what I understand brass is mainly copper and zinc, so maybe there's just an high copper content in the alloy?

[Scott --]

Maybe, Colin, but the color is pure copper. Had one of the spring leafs off last night, and it was penny-colored.

[E. von Hoegh]

Jay, that's ortho lith film?! I thought that'd give very little in the way of grayscale. You're gonna have to give me more detail on that sometime...

Okay, question fer y'all: I've done a little work on the camera, and I swear that the metalwork is copper. Either plated or solid, it's definitely not straight brass. Has a nice, even, dark patina (not verdigris, though). I'm not polishing the metal. But has anyone heard of any cameras manufactured using copper?
Depending on what it has been exposed to, the zinc can be "leached" from the alloy, leaving the surface more or less copper. Pure copper would be unsuitable - hence the development of alloys such as brass and bronze.
Also, some brass alloys have a coppery look. Brass has nigh infinite variations. If you go at an unexposed surface with fine sandpaper, I bet it comes up looking more like brass.

EDIT -PEnnies are 95% copper, 5% zinc. Or were, until the early 80"s

[Scott --]

Interesting. This seems to be an obscure manufacturer (relative to the usuals), and I'm finding materials to be different than what I've seen in Senecas, Eastmans, Gundlachs, etc. The metalwork is an example.

Like I said, I like the patina, and don't feel like completely tearing down this camera, filing peened heads, or polishing all the metal. I've started what I think is going to be my protocol on this camera, which is completely filthy: scrub the exterior with 0000 steel wool dipped in lacquer thinner. The lacquer is crazing in places; this scrub will remove some of the old, yellowed lacquer and even out what remains. Doing this leaves the surface a bit dull; I think a coat of paste wax will go on after everything is cleaned up. I'm not a huge fan of waxing cameras, but I'm even less of a fan of wiping lacquer, and like I said, I'm not tearing this camera down far enough to spray new lacquer.

[Jay DeFehr]

Scott,

The ortho film that's cheap (the stuff I use) is meant for high contrast applications (lith film), but it can be made to behave more like pictorial film by some manipulation. Pre-flashing the film lowers the exposure threshold so that any additional exposure registers on the film as density. I think of it as taking the slack out of the toe. I also use a special developer I call Sweet 'N' Lo, designed to increase the film speed and tame the contrast (kind of the same thing). Then, in printing, I use a soft working, metol-only print developer. I also try to avoid high contrast scenes. Lith film is still very slow (EI 6-12), so I'm looking forward to trying some X-ray film. In a perfect world I'd just use TMY-2, but I have obligations that preclude an unlimited budget for photo supplies, and besides, I enjoy a challenge!

I should clarify that the photo I posted above was not made on ortho film, but Kodak Imagelink HQ micro film, which is actually panchromatic, though its intended application and characteristics are otherwise very similar to ortho document films. Imagelink HQ is a pretty amazing film, once one has learned to manage it. It's finer grained than TMX or Acros, like its predecessor, Technical Pan, and ridiculously sharp. It's optimized for scanning, and it scans like a dream. Unfortunately, it's only available in 16mm, 35mm, and 105mm rolls. I'm planning to build a 4"x6.5" folding camera for the 105mm roll film.

Sorry to get off topic. Your camera is a real beauty! I'm afraid I don't know about copper camera hardware, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that nickel plated copper hardware was common. Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

[Scott --]

Thanks for the details, Jay. I may hit you up for some ortho lith examples in time. I'll PM you about it.

I scrubbed down a side of the rear box with lacquer thinner and steel wool. Removed all the crazing from the side, and once all the grime was removed from the metalwork, it looked very nice indeed. A coat of paste wax was easy, and the wood has a very nice sheen now. Think this will work out.

Interestingly, there's a front bellows frame, but no rear frame. Just the bellows tacked directly to the inside of the rear standard...

FWIW, I've updated the blog with these details... (http://wp.me/pWENv-4X)

[Jim C.]

Darn too late !
Are you sure that the wood was finished in lacquer and not shellac ?

My 2D was pitiful when I received it I did a small test to see if it was
shellac by wiping a small spot with denatured alcohol and the finish got
gummy which meant it was indeed shellac. I wound up rather than stripping
and refinishing, cleaning it with a damp cloth then naptha, and 'refreshing'
the crazed shellac with a denatured alcohol wipe.

[Scott --]

Jim, you're right. Shame on me for not checking that first. Scrubbed it with a little alcohol, and it gummed up and cleaned right up. I'm off to Ace for more denatured alcohol...

Good thing is that the wood's left even nicer, and will respond to a little wax even better. Thanks for the tip!

[Scott --]

Hmm, can't edit the last post anymore...

Anyway, the denatured alcohol and 0000 steel wool is working wonders. I scrubbed the parts I'd already waxed with VM&P naphtha and then alcohol, and the wood looks wonderful. Very smooth, even, and wonderfully tactile. That's really the best thing about finishing with wax - it feels wonderful in use.

[Scott --]

Haven't done much on the 10x12 recently, but a new strap made it here yesterday...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5266/5559083246_95f01c7c06_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5559083246/)
New strap for the 10x12... (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5559083246/) by Scott -- (http://www.flickr.com/people/scott--/), on Flickr

Found at Brettun's Village (http://www.brettunsvillage.com/trunks/howto/parts/schandles.htm). Now I have to decide - leave it tan, or dye it black. Or darker brown...

[Richard Rankin]

I think it looks pretty nice in a lighter color than the wood.

[Scott --]

Phew. Got the bellows out (http://wp.me/pWENv-56)...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5301/5559915318_a87a0b9a10_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5559915318/)
Bellows are OUT! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5559915318/) by Scott -- (http://www.flickr.com/people/scott--/), on Flickr

[Jay DeFehr]

It's looking great, Scott.

[Tom Keenan]

Yes, Looking fine. How do you get away doing this stuiff in the kitchen? I would have been thrown out by now.
Tom Keenan

[Scott --]

Thanks, guys!

Tom, I only take progress pictures in the kitchen. Any wet work or woodworking happens in the garage. The bellows came out in the living room, but there was much cleaning to do after that - those bellows were in bad shape... :eek:

[Steven Tribe]

Perhaps the bellows are in "bad shape" - but they look perfect to act as a pattern.
Remember to ensure the new bellows have the same thickness when compressed.

[Scott --]

Oh, yeah, Steven - the bellows are being shipped Monday to Wales so Sandeha can use them as a pattern. With them in hand he can figure everything to get the compression, draw, taper right.

They're super-messy, though. Drop little bits of liner and leatherette all over the place, and they're dusty as sin. Glad to get them out of here.

[Scott --]

Almost all the work is done on this camera now (http://wp.me/pWENv-59). I need to ship off the bellows, sooner than later.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5092/5568712104_389dde4b1b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5568712104/)
IMG_1312 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5568712104/) by Scott -- (http://www.flickr.com/people/scott--/), on Flickr

[Jay DeFehr]

It's looking great! What color bellows did you decide on?

[Scott --]

Gonna be bright red like the ones on the Asanuma, Jay. Should look, well, bright... ;)

[Jay DeFehr]

That will look great. I was kind of hoping you'd go a little further out and choose something less traditional, but maybe that would have been less appropriate, too. What kind of shape are your holders in?

[Scott --]

The color's partially dictated by what fabric Sandeha can get in the quantity needed righ now. And my daughter really likes the red... ;)

Holders are in fine shape. Slides need a little waxing, but other than that, they're perfect. And I have film ready to go, too. No way to scan it, and no paper to print on yet, though...

[Scott --]

Provenance (http://wp.me/pWENv-5c)...

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd359/smpsweeps/IMG_7554.jpg

[TheDeardorffGuy]

Many years ago Merle Deardorff gave me several cameras that he "redesigned". Senecas with front swings, 2Ds with rear rise etc. and a Star camera like this one.
He took V8 22A and put a tambor sliding panel on it. I assumed he invented it and put it on the Star. He never told me what came first or why. Now I know what came first.
But not why. What the groups idea about this sliding front? It looks like a HUGE bellows front frame. Whats the relationship between the two?

[Scott --]

So, Ken, are you suggesting that Merle took a Deardorff and added the tambour front to it, then the idea somehow was handed over/licensed to/sold to Star? Interesting. I really consider the tambour design an oddity, and somewhat of a step backwards technology-wise. It's kludgy, seems easily disturbed, and prone to failure if not used carefully. I'm surprised Merle would have had a hand in it.

The only reason I can see for the design is that it allows the bellows to have much more substantial ribbing, and almost zero taper top-to-bottom. Seems like it would have been a sag-prevention idea to me. The idea is kind of neat in practice, but like I said, it's kludgy.

All I can find about it is on piercevaubel.com (http://piercevaubel.com/cam/misc/star.htm), which dates it to about 1930, and actually claims it was designed to compete with the Deardorff. There are holes in the info there, though, so it's kind of suspect.

[TheDeardorffGuy]

So, Ken, are you suggesting that Merle took a Deardorff and added the tambour front to it, then the idea somehow was handed over/licensed to/sold to Star? Interesting. I really consider the tambour design an oddity, and somewhat of a step backwards technology-wise. It's kludgy, seems easily disturbed, and prone to failure if not used carefully. I'm surprised Merle would have had a hand in it.

The only reason I can see for the design is that it allows the bellows to have much more substantial ribbing, and almost zero taper top-to-bottom. Seems like it would have been a sag-prevention idea to me. The idea is kind of neat in practice, but like I said, it's kludgy.

All I can find about it is on piercevaubel.com (http://piercevaubel.com/cam/misc/star.htm), which dates it to about 1930, and actually claims it was designed to compete with the Deardorff. There are holes in the info there, though, so it's kind of suspect.

I just think that LF or Merle copied to try it. He did that all the time. Thats all. A tambor can't be licensed or patented. (back then) They have been around since the 1500s. The Star is far closer to a Century Universal. Sort of a merge of a Tailboard camera and a classic English folding field camera. Somewhere in my boxed collection of view cameras I have a 8x10 ROCO field camera that LF Deardorff designed when he worked for them. It is amazing that 20 years earlier than his own company built the first V8 there was a self casing camera. It sold poorly and was discontinued rapidly. People wanted tailboards! My own opinion after studing and collecting L.F.s and Merles designs. It was all done fefore starting in the 1870s. And just repeated over again......

[Scott --]

That's interesting, Ken.

FWIW, there's an update on the bellows, and on the handle dyeing (http://wp.me/pWENv-5h)...

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd359/smpsweeps/IMG_7617.jpg

[taulen]

A BIG bellows for a BIG camera, love it ! :D And the handle looks really good. =)

[Scott --]

Just received word - the bellows are finished (http://wp.me/pWENv-5m)!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5148/5621779479_9c28074879_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5621779479/)
Big and small... (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5621779479/) by Scott -- (http://www.flickr.com/people/scott--/), on Flickr

[TheDeardorffGuy]

How many shades of red does he have? My 1923 V8 would look really nice with red bellows. Just not as bright........
Ken

[Scott --]

Picked up the bellows today, and now they're installed! (http://wp.me/pWENv-5D) Hope to get it out shooting early next week (out of developer... :().

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5149/5657827825_2412c2fa03_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5657827825/)
IMG_1622 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5657827825/) by Scott -- (http://www.flickr.com/people/scott--/), on Flickr