Which Head, 410 or 405?????

[wista45]

So I just aquired a wista 45 :D and i am looking for a nice geared head. I've used a friends 410 and love the geared head setup but im not sure if the 410 is heavy duty enough for my camera which weighs in at about 14-15 pounds all set up. Is the 405 worth the extra loot. I've seen tons of post say the 410 is great but not many from people who have used the 405. anyone have any experience that can help me decide one way or another? hurry i need to starting using my wista before i go nuts! btw ill be using it on the 055XPROB if that really matters. 405 might add too much weight for those legs?

any advice is greatly appreciated, hope i can tap into the wealth of knowledge here at LFPF.

[wista45]

p.s. also open to any other suggestions as to geared heads that are out there, just havent found much else out there for a reasonable price...

[David de Gruyl]

the only reasonably priced geared head is the majestic, which weighs a ton and is only geared in one direction, does not have fine adjustment, and is VERY heavy duty. Used price ~$100

I use one to hold up a Calumet C-1 (which is possibly the most unwieldy camera around).

[wista45]

really looking for a fully geared head not just one way, thanks for the input though

[David de Gruyl]

I was mostly trying to talk you out of even thinking about the majestic. It works, but only for the most monsterous of cameras.

Are you sure the camera + lens is that heavy? Seems like a lot of lens on a 6 lb camera. (unless I am getting the wrong camera: it is a field 4x5, right?)

[Noah A]

I recently ordered a 405 from B&H. Until you see it in person you may not be aware of just how huge it is. Really big. And I wasn't overly impressed with its rigidity. Perhaps it needed to be tightened up (I couldn't risk removing the plastic covers to tighten the mechanism since then I couldn't have returned it.), but it seemed like the metal actually flexed quite a bit. I promptly returned it and ordered a 410.

I've been using the 410 with my Technikardan 4x5 (around 7.7 pounds plus some pretty big lenses (115 grandagon, etc.). It works great. It could be sample variation but it seems much more solid than the larger 405, which doesn't make sense but it was certainly my experience.

I'm not familiar with the camera you're talking about. I previously used a wista metal field (45VX) that I think was around 6.5 pounds. The 410 worked great for that camera as well, though the Technikardan is heavier and has a higher profile so it's more of a test. But as I said, with the TK it's a brilliant head. It's a good balance of size, weight and performance and while I wouldn't say it's as solid as an arca ballhead, it has seemed to hold my camera well enough for sharp negs even in tough windy conditions.

I will never use a ballhead again for LF. Ever.

Of course, the Arca Cube is probably the best geared head, but it comes at a hefty cost.

[Gem Singer]

The 410, weighs 2.7 lbs, and is priced around $200.

The 405 weighs 5.3 lbs, and lists for twice the price of the 410.

The 410 is strong enough to support any 4x5 field camera, wood or metal, that Wista makes, and is a better match for your tripod legs.

I am using a Manfrotto 804 RC2 pan head, on 055XPROB legs, to support a heavy medium format camera. Works great.

[lenser]

I've used the same 405 head for nearly 20 years without incident. It is light weight, solid as can be, the quick release plate locks on very tightly even with heavier cameras, and the gearing works very well in both gross and micro movements.

I routinely use a Zone VI with heavy lenses (including in straight down vertical positions) and have used it with my Cambo SCX (much heavier) without difficulties. It also works quite well with either medium or 35mm (or digital) format systems.

Tim

[Kirk Gittings]

The 410, weighs 2.7 lbs, and is priced around $200.

The 405 weighs 5.3 lbs, and lists for twice the price of the 410.

The 410 is strong enough to support any 4x5 field camera, wood or metal, that Wista makes, and is a better match for your tripod legs.


ditto

[William Gregory]

I have and use the 405 with my 4x5 and 8x10. I can't imagine using the smaller 410 with my 8x10. It is really a lot smaller and I don't believe is rated for the weight of most 4x5's or any 8x10's. I know I've heard many hear say the 410 is sufficient but I think the 405 is a great head and your best bet. It should be the only head you'll ever need!

[engl]

How do you make a Wista 45 reach 15 pounds? Even the heaviest versions of that camera, 45SP and 45RF, are only 6.3 pounds (the 45VX is 5.3 pounds).

[brchambe]

I have had both and couldn't stand the 410. The quick movement releases hurt my hands and the controls were just too small to get fine control. I still have the 405 (the larger one) and use it on everything from DSLR to a monorail. I shoot a lot of still life so I really like the fine control the larger micro adjusting knobs provide.

My shooting friends are always envious of the control the 405 give me. Right up until we go hiking with our gear, then they laugh.

Brian

[wista45]

nevermind, it weighs about 6.4 sans lens. its a wista 45sp. i think im leaning more towards the 410 due to the fact that ill be travelinig/hiking with the setup alot. can anyone confirm the rumor i hear of nylon gearing on the 410? if i am going to make the investment i want a piece that will last.

lenser i worry that the reason reason yours has lasted 20 years is because it was made 20 years ago, anyone have more recent experience with the 405?

[Mark Sampson]

I don't use either of these heads but Manfrotto quality has improved from 20 years ago.
My 1987 Bogen (Manfrotto) 3035/3047 still works, though. Parts are cheap and you can fix them without great skill. I'd buy a 410 head if I had the $200 to spare right now.

[Kirk Gittings]

Many people here successfully use the 410. Do a search. This is the 4th or 5th thread I can remember in the last few years. I am a professional and use the crap out of them on both my tripods. One of them was run over by my truck-seizing up the back to front mechanism. I hammered it loose with a big rock-no other adjustments-and continue to use it to this day. It works fine.


but Manfrotto quality has improved from 20 years ago

Bogen quality better now? I am still using the same Manfroto light stands-all for location shooting-bouncing around in the back of my truck-year in and year outsince 1978!!!!!!

[Peter De Smidt]

I agree with Kirk. 410s are very nice heads.

I have a 3021 Bogen/Manfrotto tripod from the early 90s. It is terrible. Nothing locks well, including the center column, and the knobs catch on everything. I've never sold it because I'd feel bad inflicting it on another photographer. I work with guys who use current 3021s, and they're much better, although I still prefer Gitzos.

[Gem Singer]

Bogen---Manfrotto-----Gitzo--manufactured by the same company.

You get what you pay for.

[Mark Sampson]

Kirk, my old Bogen tripod is good, 24 years with it now; although I've never tried a Lester and sat on top of it. But I think their newer ones are built just a little better, easier to lock in place. Their stands, well, my experience is much like your own. They'll outlast me.

[David de Gruyl]

Does anyone know if the quick release assembly on these heads are removable and replaceable with an arca / RRS clamp?

[John Koehrer]

Bogen---Manfrotto-----Gitzo--manufactured by the same company.

You get what you pay for.

Owned by, not manufactured by.
Bogen was the former US distributor.

[Brian Ellis]

I've used a 410 for years but with something that weighs about 6 pounds or less. However, Bogen rates the maximum capacity of the 410 at 13.25 pounds. These capacity numbers from all the manufacturers usually seem very conservative to me so I think you'd probably be o.k. with a 14-15 pound outfit on the 410. However, if you take the manufacturer's numbers as gospel then you'd want something rated higher.

[mandoman7]

I have a 410 and love it for 4x5 use. I've used a for 8x10 a number of times and it works fine, basically. If there is an issue, I would say it might be with the QR plate and its somewhat small size, where a camera with a large base will have some wobble. The 405, though, would be overkill for any 4x5, IMO

[Gem Singer]

John Koehrer,

In the early 1990's, Manfrotto purchased Gitzo and also bought out Lester Bogen.

Gitzo of France and Manfrotto of Italy are now one large company owned by The Vitek Group in the UK.

Manfrotto distributes its own products in the USA. Bogen is out of the picture.

What I was attempting to say is that Gitzo is their higher end product.

[B.S.Kumar]

I've been using a 405 with a Sinar X and a Betterlight scan back on a large Slik CF tripod for the past five years. I am very happy with it. I briefly considered selling it, and tried to use a regular 3-way head, but I don't think I can go back to a non-geared head.

Kumar

[sultanofcognac]

Another 410 user here - I use this for my Shen Hao 4x5 and Arca Swiss 4x5 view camera (the "A" Basic) and it's a beautiful piece of kit. I wouldn't use it with my 8x10 as it's a Plaubel Peco Profia and weighs a tonne.
I swear by the precision of the geared head, but mostly with my digi kit and MF cameras.
I like a ball head with my LF kit, but then again the 410 is sturdy and very stable with no possibility of slippage.

[Brian Ellis]

nevermind, it weighs about 6.4 sans lens. its a wista 45sp. i think im leaning more towards the 410 due to the fact that ill be travelinig/hiking with the setup alot. can anyone confirm the rumor i hear of nylon gearing on the 410? if i am going to make the investment i want a piece that will last.

lenser i worry that the reason reason yours has lasted 20 years is because it was made 20 years ago, anyone have more recent experience with the 405?

I've had my 410 for about 12 or so years. While I don't use it daily or even weekly, it's seen plenty of use and still works fine though it doesn't look real pretty any more. I'm not sure what rumor about nylon gearing you're talking about, if it's supposed to be a problem it hasn't been with mine.

With all due respect, if you photograph much at all you're going to spend more money on film and maybe processing in fairly short order than you'll spend on the 410 so I wouldn't worry too much about the investment aspect of it.