View Full Version : Buyer Beware

14-Mar-2011, 12:17
Just bought a speed Graflex on e-bay! Piece of junk when it arrived. Of course, the old fart wouldn't take it back. Said it was in perfect shape when he mailed it. My fault, should have know something was wrong when he said had old film for the camera. 30 years old, it turned out to be. Can't trust anybody these days.

14-Mar-2011, 12:19
How do you know the seller is an old fart? Perhaps he is just a curmudgeon.

Ed Kelsey
14-Mar-2011, 12:34
File a Paypal dispute and you'll get your money back.

14-Mar-2011, 12:35
30 years old is not old enough??

Brian C. Miller
14-Mar-2011, 12:37
Isn't there some kind of dispute thing you can do? At least leave bad feedback on the seller.

14-Mar-2011, 12:42
Only if you used PayPal, another e-bay ripoff. E-bay isn't really interested in doing anything for buyers, only sellers, since that's who they make their money off of. Have a lot of experience with e-bay. Don't know when I'm going to learn. Like I said, my fault. Guy didn't even have a rating with them. Mine's always been 100%. Not the first time I've dealt with a bogus seller. The folks I've done business with for years take my checks. They aren't worried about me.

Alan Gales
14-Mar-2011, 12:43
File a Paypal dispute and you'll get your money back.

File a dispute like Ed recommends. Ebay favors Buyers so you should have no problem getting your money back.

Dishonest Sellers come in all ages.

14-Mar-2011, 12:57
If you feel wronged, file a dispute.

A couple of years ago eBay changed the feedback and payment to seller system to turn the tide of bias somewhat away from sellers and more fair toward buyers. I haven't followed the result on this, but it came as a result of the purported bias toward sellers, along with sellers use of feedback in a retaliatory fashion.

I do know it changed the system somewhat as Sellers had limitations put on their ability to give any feedback until after the buyer received, or acknowledged (by feedback) receipt. Seller payment was withheld depending on their statistics, until receipt was documented or acknowledged, or for 30 days.

I think it's a deliberate fiction to say that eBay favors sellers over buyers. The system is routinely adjusted to deal with these issues. On the other hand, many buy without looking closely at the sellers listings and statistics. Still there is much more safety involved than other venues of buy/sell, such as local advertising and Craigslist.

I do quite well on eBay and I teach eBay classes at a local community college as well. I strongly support the system, given proper cautions, of course. Yes, hackers and scammers do exist there, but they are patently obvious.

Even on eBay, if it looks like too good a deal, it probably is.

My two basics, or requirements...

99.5 positive feedback or better requiired
A reasonable amount of feed back spread evenly and unbrokenly (timewise) over at least a year.

Those two, plus more or no bid. Your bad experiences will wither away.

14-Mar-2011, 13:24
If you don't pay by paypal you're a little stuck.

On personal transactions of a high value I try and avoid it, but on smaller transactions and using ebay it is, though I bite my tongue to say it, invaluable.

A few weeks ago. I had a camera arrive that was totally rubbish. I sent it back, the guy said I'd damaged it and he couldn't sell it on, so I filed an ebay dispute. Ebay then reversed the paypal money that he was withdrawing, and held it until he agreed to refund. Job done.

Alan Gales
14-Mar-2011, 13:41
I think it's a deliberate fiction to say that eBay favors sellers over buyers.

Deliberate fiction? A lie?

There are quite a few Sellers on this format and elsewhere that feel that Ebay favors Buyers over Sellers in disputes.

I both buy and sell on Ebay. I have absolutely nothing to gain from handing out deliberate fiction about Ebay.

14-Mar-2011, 13:41
I believe you can file a dispute on both PayPal & eBay. I filed mine on eBay & they ruled in my favor. I had bought a Horseman view camera with lots of accessories. The seller said the bellows were in good condition and had no repairs. They were falling apart. She admitted that she never opened them. The way they put pressure on the sellers is they put a hold on their PayPal account. A few sales went through for the seller after I filed my case against her and she couldn't get the funds. She must have gone crazy. This went on for a couple weeks. Because her account was frozen she paid me through her husband's PayPal account. Ebay said her other options were to send me a check or money order.

When they ruled in my favor they said I could either negotiate further or return the camera. They had a link to a shipping label so I could return it for free. They said once they had proof of the return they would pay me immediately. Then they would go after the seller for the money. I wanted to keep the camera so we negotiated the bellows problem. The seller was still very hard to deal with. The camera was a real steal. It even came with things that weren't in the ad.

Good luck.

>>> Jim

14-Mar-2011, 14:24
File a dispute like Ed recommends. Ebay favors Buyers so you should have no problem getting your money back.

Dishonest Sellers come in all ages.

you can say that again!

14-Mar-2011, 17:38
Maybe they need a special section for people who do not know how to buy on Ebay. It seems like every week there is another person ripin on ebay or a seller. I have many years of experience buying and selling on ebay. Seriously; you did not use Paypal to pay with? Why complain here. Most of the people here know better, they say so every week. The members here all have advice to give most good and some not so good. I bet you will use Paypal in the future. i bet it was an expensive lesson. Ebaay may find in your favor but they have no way to get your money back if you didnt use PAYPAL.

14-Mar-2011, 18:32
eBay does have some clout. They can suspend selling privileges.

>>> Jim

luis a de santos
15-Mar-2011, 06:48
These things happen everywhere.
I had a recent problem in this forum buying an item.
You can not trust anybody.


15-Mar-2011, 07:07
Luis did you use paypal?

26-Mar-2011, 15:47
Photobymike, no, you would loose all your bets. I will not be using PayPal in the future, nor e-bay either, for that matter. I used PayPal for years before they changed the rules and wanted direct access to your checking account. NOBODY has direct access to my checking account, but my wife, and that's because everything we have is joint. I'll take my licks, it was partly my fault for doing business with someone without a rating. I have a perfect rating with e-bay and normally only do business with the same. Somehow I slipped up on this one, partly my bad! Camera is already at Fred's now, anyway.

Tony Evans
26-Mar-2011, 16:47
I was going to shut up but the OP Post got the better of me. Ebay & Paypal offer absolutely no protection when the scam is to scam you out of being able to file a dispute. In my case $260 for a lens from Russia from a supposedly acredited (180) vendor. In short, lens did not arrive. An email elicited a response that a Post Office error had returned it to sender. He/she stated he was re-sending it and supplied a Tracking Number. Like a fool, with a tracking number in hand, I then took no action. I followed the tracking number all the way to Canada only to see it delivered to an address on the other side of the country whereapon it was "returned to sender". The post Office keeps no track of delivery addresses even with tracked mail, so the accomplice can not be identified. In short, Ebay said contact PayPal, PayPal said too late! As far as I know Ebay has done nothing in respect of this fraud. There! Finally got it off my chest.

neil poulsen
26-Mar-2011, 19:48
As a buyer, I've successfully resolved two disputes through EBay. One was in the pre-PayPal days, the second was more recent.

EBay does care about buyers, and they care about accurate descriptions.

I resisted PayPal at first. But now that I've gotten used to it, I think it works quite well.

Brian Ellis
26-Mar-2011, 20:11
I don't know about disputes, fortunately I've never been in one as either a buyer or a seller. But lately it's seemed to me that the rules tend to favor the buyer, especially the one that says a seller with less than 100 transactions can't get his or her money until the buyer leaves positive feedback or 26 days (something like that) go by without a complaint from the buyer. I was shocked the first time that one was pulled on me with my then 90 or so transactions and 100% positive feedback.

26-Mar-2011, 20:18
Armyphotog ("I used PayPal for years before they changed the rules and wanted direct access to your checking account. NOBODY has direct access to my checking account, but my wife, and that's because everything we have is joint.")

If you send me a check i can use your routing number and account number to gain access to your account. Gaining access to your checking or savings is easier than you think. At least with paypal the seller does not have access to your account info such as credit card info or checking numbers. Every time you use your credit/debit at a taco bell to buy food ect... you are exposing your financial information. I am retired certified programer for dealing with secured communications (https). This type of theft is the largest and most successful lucrative illegal business in the world.

26-Mar-2011, 20:27
Here in the USA the best way to handle a transaction without Paypal is to use a USPS money order. If you do not receive the item you ordered; the post office has their own police force and fraud using the US mail is a pretty serious offense.

Jan Pedersen
26-Mar-2011, 20:52
The fees paypal get's from sellers transactions are ridiculous since paypal is owned or are a part of ebay who already took their cut for the sale.
Paypal does however comes through if the item fails to appear, at least they did for me.
About 3 years ago i purchased on of the Horizon swing lens cameras from a Russian vendor with a good feedback score.
The camera did not arrive and several emails to the vendor who was responsive and promissed that the camera would arrive did nothing to make me at ease.

About a week before the two month cut of from the dispute deadline i did file a dispute with paypal and within 8 days i had the money in my account.

I don't like the fees but i do feel that i have some protection if i don't receive what i paid for.

Sirius Glass
27-Mar-2011, 16:41
The best way to avoid eBay-PayPal problems is buying from KEH.com or directly from a camera store. Yes, and face to face with Craigslist.


27-Mar-2011, 19:16
I just ordered a 4x5 Speed Graphic from Ebay. Guess what came? A 3x4 Speed Graphic. Attempts to explain the difference to the seller fell on deaf ears. I'm keeping it though, especially after I restored the leather.