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Jeff Bannow
14-Mar-2011, 11:20
Which center filter would be appropriate for a Fuji Fujinon-SW 90mm? I'll be using this lens on 6x17 / 5x7.

Thanks!

Jeff Bannow
14-Mar-2011, 11:23
BTW - this uses a 67mm filter size.

Gem Singer
14-Mar-2011, 11:52
Since it takes 67mm screw-in filters, this lens is the Fujinon f8 90SW. Doesn't need a center filter.

Jeff Bannow
14-Mar-2011, 11:53
Sorry, I should have specified. It is the f8.

No center filter, even for 5x7?

Gem Singer
14-Mar-2011, 11:56
No center filter needed. Not even for 5x7.

You are confused as to your "needs" and your "wants".

Save your money for more important things.

Bob McCarthy
14-Mar-2011, 12:01
That is a practical solution with B&W and color negatives, "but" I think a center filter, if your shooting transparencies, helps significantly.

An major brand center filter of 67mm thread will work.

bob

GPS
14-Mar-2011, 12:09
That is a practical solution with B&W and color negatives, "but" I think a center filter, if your shooting transparencies, helps significantly.

...
bob

You think so because you have an experience with the lens needing the CF? Or is it just out of the head artificial need?

Gem Singer
14-Mar-2011, 12:09
Bob,

I would agree with your generalization, providing this lens had a larger image circle with significant light fall off at the edges. However, like the Nikkor f8 90SW, the Fuji f8 90SW exhibits sharp cut off at the edges.

BTW, Not much chance of using 5x7 transparency film it all but disappeared from the market place.

Bob Salomon
14-Mar-2011, 12:57
That is a practical solution with B&W and color negatives, "but" I think a center filter, if your shooting transparencies, helps significantly.

An major brand center filter of 67mm thread will work.

bob

Not quite. Rodenstock makes two 67mm center filters. One is specifically, and only, for the 35, 45 and 55mm Apo Grandagon lenses and the other is for the 75mm 4.5 and the 90mm 6.8. The second should work just fine with the fuji but the first will not work properly with the Fuji.

Heliopan use to make two different strength center filters in each size, including 67mm. Both would work on the Fuji but today they only have one type of center filter in each size.

So why will one work and the other not? The Apo Grandagon lenses, depending on focal length are 110 to 120 coverage lenses. The Grandagon-N lenses are 102 formulations which are closer to the Fuji's 100 coverage.

dave_whatever
14-Mar-2011, 13:36
I have a Fuji 90mm f/8 SW and got a rodenstock 1.5stop center filter - its the same type that fits any 90mm lens with a 67mm front thread (like a super angulon/nikon f/8 or rodenstock/caltar f/6.8) and also the super symmar 100mm. This is the second type Bob mentions above.

For 4x5 the CF is unnecessary unless you're using the limits of the image circle all the time (architecture?). For 6x17 on transparency film the falloff without the CF isn't actually that severe, but it is noticable.

Steve Goldstein
14-Mar-2011, 14:38
Also, Schneider lists center filter IIIb (that's a Roman-numeral 3) for the 8/90 Super Angulon with the 67mm male thread you need. The female thread is 86mm. I believe the Rodenstock CF also has an 86mm female thread, so either route brings you to the Land of Expensive Filters.

I see Schneider IIIb CFs on eBay from time to time. It seems to be the most common one, but I don't pay careful attention.

Jeff Bannow
14-Mar-2011, 14:56
Thanks everyone for the feedback - I'll test the lens out first before buying a CF. I will be shooting mostly B&W with some color negative, no transparency.

My concern is that I will be using shifts with the lens, so I may be reaching the edges of the image circle at some point.

Jeff Bannow
14-Mar-2011, 14:59
Looks like the Schneider IIIb filter is going on ebay for almost the price of a new one! Holy cow! Last one sold for over $300 used.

At that price I'd rather buy new for $350.

Gem Singer
14-Mar-2011, 15:25
Jeff,

Your Fuji f8 90SW has a 216mm image circle.

Ample room to use shift movements when shooting 4x5 and 6x17.

However, minimal room for movements with 5x7, and that could cause vignetting.

A center filter will not prevent vignetting. A lens with a larger image circle will.

I've owned several wide angle lenses, and have never found the need for a center filter when shooting B&W.

Leigh
14-Mar-2011, 16:09
Your Fuji f8 90SW has a 216mm image circle.
I'm using the Fujinon SWD 90/5.6, which has a 236mm image circle.

That might be a better choice for 5x7. It's also a full stop faster.

- Leigh

Jeff Bannow
14-Mar-2011, 16:15
I'm using the Fujinon SWD 90/5.6, which has a 236mm image circle.

That might be a better choice for 5x7. It's also a full stop faster.

- Leigh

Quite a bit heavier and larger though as well I believe.

Gem Singer
14-Mar-2011, 16:26
Leigh,

There is no doubt that a lens with a larger image circle would be a better choice for 5x7.

The OP was asking about a lens that he already owns, the Fuji f8 90SW.

I have a Nikon/Nikkor f8 90SW that has a 235mm image circle. However, the lens that I choose to use for 6x17 and 5x7 is a Nikon/Nikkor f8 120SW that has a 312mm image circle.

The OP did not ask which lens he should purchase.

Jeff Bannow
14-Mar-2011, 16:28
I do appreciate the advice though. The f8 appeals primarily due to size and weight. I'll be backpacking with it, which will already be a challenge. :)

Gem Singer
14-Mar-2011, 16:37
Jeff,

I was under the impression that you already owned a Fuji f8 90SW.

If not, look for a Nikon/Nikkor f8 90SW with a larger image circle.

It is a great lens for backpacking. Harder to find on the used market, but worth the search.

JimL
14-Mar-2011, 17:27
I have used a Schneider III on my SA90/8 on 6x17. I find it works well when shooting in conditions where the exposures are getting long, i.e. where shadow detail at the edges can get lost due to reciprocity.

Bob McCarthy
16-Mar-2011, 07:45
You think so because you have an experience with the lens needing the CF? Or is it just out of the head artificial need?

If you understood the geometry of light passing through a lens you would have not made this post. All lenses have falloff. In most cases with normal/long lenses its insignificant. The shorter the lens the greater the falloff.

A 90 is on the cusp where its becomes a minor issue for some, not at all for others.

While glass/optical formula can make a difference (small) and aperture used has an impact, the typical user can only noticably detect a difference with contrasty slide film and even then since many darken the corners of a print, it may be welcomed.

And yes I've owned this lens as well as the Nikon 90 and Rodenstock 90.

bob

Bob McCarthy
16-Mar-2011, 07:51
What I meant was any major brand of 67mm with the appropriate "gradation". As you pointed out its usually designated by the manufacture by focal length.

I guess I need to spell out everything, I thought this would be understood.

sorry,

bob


Not quite. Rodenstock makes two 67mm center filters. One is specifically, and only, for the 35, 45 and 55mm Apo Grandagon lenses and the other is for the 75mm 4.5 and the 90mm 6.8. The second should work just fine with the fuji but the first will not work properly with the Fuji.

Heliopan use to make two different strength center filters in each size, including 67mm. Both would work on the Fuji but today they only have one type of center filter in each size.

So why will one work and the other not? The Apo Grandagon lenses, depending on focal length are 110 to 120 coverage lenses. The Grandagon-N lenses are 102 formulations which are closer to the Fuji's 100 coverage.

Bob McCarthy
16-Mar-2011, 07:57
Bob,

I would agree with your generalization, providing this lens had a larger image circle with significant light fall off at the edges. However, like the Nikkor f8 90SW, the Fuji f8 90SW exhibits sharp cut off at the edges.

BTW, Not much chance of using 5x7 transparency film it all but disappeared from the market place.

Eugene,

The collar is used to cut off the low performing edges of the image circle, not for light falloff. That is baked in to the geometry/optical formula of the lens.

Man I wish I had my Nikon 90 back, did you end up with it? I appreciate the optical qualities of the grandagon, but the compactness of the Nikon is super.

bob

GPS
16-Mar-2011, 08:07
If you understood the geometry of light passing through a lens you would have not made this post. All lenses have falloff. In most cases with normal/long lenses its insignificant. The shorter the lens the greater the falloff.

A 90 is on the cusp where its becomes a minor issue for some, not at all for others.

While glass/optical formula can make a difference (small) and aperture used has an impact, the typical user can only noticably detect a difference with contrasty slide film and even then since many darken the corners of a print, it may be welcomed.

And yes I've owned this lens as well as the Nikon 90 and Rodenstock 90.

bob

The well known fact of fall off on 90mm LF lenses you bother to preach is no reason to generalize necessary use of CF for this lens. If you read more posts about CF on this forum you would see how different opinions photographers have about it. Which you yourself imply in this very post. And yes, me too I have Nikon 90/8 and a Schneider 90/5,6 and don't need a CF - shooting 6x17 transparencies. Go wonder.

Bob Salomon
16-Mar-2011, 08:29
As you pointed out its usually designated by the manufacture by focal length. bob

That isn't what I pointed out. I specifically pointed out that in the case of the 2 Rodenstock center filter it was by lens type, not focal length.

The 110 to 120 coverage Apo Grandagon 35, 45 and 55mm lenses require one center filter while the 102 to 105 Grandagon 75mm 4.5 and 90mm 6.8 lenses require a different center filter.

Rodenstock also makes 2 82mm center filters. One is specifically for the 90mm 4.5 and 115mm 6.8 while the other is only for the HR Digaron-S 23mm 5.6 and the 28mm 4.5 lenses.

It is interesting to note that the 67mm for the 35 to 55mm lenses has a filter factor of 2.5 while all of the other 3 center filters mentioned above have a filter factor of 1.5. So the two 82mm CF have the same density in the center but different patterns while the two 67mm CF have different center densities.

The filters with a filter factor of 1.5X have an optical density in the center of 0.45. That is also the same density as the Heliopan center filters.

Bob McCarthy
16-Mar-2011, 09:34
The well known fact of fall off on 90mm LF lenses you bother to preach is no reason to generalize necessary use of CF for this lens. If you read more posts about CF on this forum you would see how different opinions photographers have about it. Which you yourself imply in this very post. And yes, me too I have Nikon 90/8 and a Schneider 90/5,6 and don't need a CF - shooting 6x17 transparencies. Go wonder.


Must be a language thing.

I do not use a center filter BTW.

I don't even use a CF with the 75mm, even though the darkening of the edges is noticable.

bob

Bob Salomon
16-Mar-2011, 11:37
Must be a language thing.

I do not use a center filter BTW.

I don't even use a CF with the 75mm, even though the darkening of the edges is noticable.

bob

But this is not unusual. Many people that we sell cameras and lenses to, including 617 and 612 cameras, like what they call the "wide angle look" of darkening at the edges which they feel brings the eye into the subject.

But we talk to just as many who don't like that effect and want to reduce it to a minimum by using a center filter.

We also talk to customers who frame their shots by having dark areas at the edges and avoid expanses of light, open space across the frame. That reduces the fall off.

Of course other shooters will over light the edges of a scene eliminating the need for a center filter or correct by dodging and burning in the darkroom or the computer. Dodging and burning will not work with chromes though.

Some users would rather just get it even and use the filter.