HARMAN technology. Has anyone on this forum dealt with this company?

[Bunwackett]

I just need some information on how this company operates with small size customers. I wish to deal with them in the future, and would like some information from people who have dealt with them before. I have read their web page, but would like to know the stages of dealing with them. :D

Ok, let me rephrase my question, I want to purchase the raw gelatin emulsion, in a liquid form, not the middle man (Ilford), Ilford get their emulsion from HARMAN technology, who make the emulsion which is coated onto the Ilford film.

I want my Liquid emulsion to be panchromatic, and this facility has the technology to do so. This will enable me to coat it onto my own plates.

[Kirk Gittings]

This is a bit of an odd question. Many of us use their products. They have made some very nice papers. Personally I just bought them from retailers as many have here. Beyond that what is your real question? What "stages of dealing with them"? You go to a retailer and buy their product..............?

[IanG]

You deal with their agents/importers which are listed on the Ilford website (http://ilfordphoto.com).

Ian

[Bunwackett]

This is a bit of an odd question. Many of us use their products. They have made some very nice papers. Personally I just bought them from retailers as many have here. Beyond that what is your real question? What "stages of dealing with them"? You go to a retailer and buy their product..............?

I did not say I wanted the papers, I did not say I wanted to buy retail. I want to go direct to the source of the photographic emulsion so............................?

[BetterSense]

I had a 5-liter bottle of fixer, and I wanted to determine its vintage so that I knew if it was still good or not. I called the number on the bottle and left a message. A day or so later I got a call from a different (correct) division of the company who had looked up the serial number I gave and told me that it was less than 2 years old and still good. Just the fact that they returned my call with an actual answer was somewhat impressive compared to some.

[Kirk Gittings]

I did not say I wanted the papers, I did not say I wanted to buy retail. I want to go direct to the source of the photographic emulsion so............................?

No, you added the last two paragraphs to clarify your question after I made my post. Your initial post/paragraph was very vague.

[IanG]

No, you added the last two paragraphs to clarify your question after I made my post. Your initial post/paragraph was very vague.

I made my reply before the post was heavily edited as well :D

Ilford/Harman are not going to help with how to make an emulsion Panchromatic, however there's plenty of information available in books & online.

Denise Ross has a site the Light Farm and there will be details there. There are also books on emulsion making as well available through libraries or second-hand via Amazon etc.

Ian

[Bunwackett]

May be vague to you, but I got the answer to my question from BetterSense, as he said, all I need do is phone them up and leave a message, they would phone back and tell me the answer. I just wanted to know if they shun the little man, like Ilford they coat emulsion onto film, and sell it, that is all. HARMAN technology are the ones who have what I want, the raw emulsion. Not like Ilford would tell any of us where they source the raw emulsion from. As I found out when I asked them.

[Bunwackett]

I made my reply before the post was heavily edited as well :D

Ilford/Harman are not going to help with how to make an emulsion Panchromatic, however there's plenty of information available in books & online.

Denise Ross has a site the Light Farm and there will be details there. There are also books on emulsion making as well available through libraries or second-hand via Amazon etc.

Ian

Yes they will help me, if I have the money they will help me do whatever I want.

http://www.harmantechnology.com/DotNetNuke/Capabilities/CrystalManufacture/tabid/192/Default.aspx#Photo-Sensitisation

As you can see, HARMAN technology’s Photographic Emulsion Making Plant is a high-tech, high yield, fully automated facility. All processes including scheduling, cleaning (CIP) and chemical additions are controlled by a central, state-of-the art, process control system. :D

Separate Production Facilities are available for the chemical and spectral sensitisation of batches as small as 60L. :D

They have a pilot plant for small yields. :D

They have a contact number, you phone, ask for what emulsion you want, you pay, they deliver.

[IanG]

Ilford is Harman Technology, they aren't two separate companies. Harman is now the Company name and Ilford is their product brand name as is Kentmere, and Harman.

I've been to the factory a number of times over the years, most recently a factory visit 2 years ago.

Ian

[Sevo]

I did not say I wanted the papers, I did not say I wanted to buy retail. I want to go direct to the source of the photographic emulsion so............................?

Uh, Harman is the name of the company whose products are generally known as Ilford. A reused name of one of the companies once amalgamated into Ilford. They could not pick Ilford after the collapse and management buyout, as that stuck with the other half of Ilford when it fell apart - the former Ciba photography division making Ilfochrome (which could not go back to Ciba/Cibachrome branding, as that name now is owned by Novartis and BASF).

So basically there is no "middle man" in shape of Ilford - Ilford Photo is a Harman brand. If you already talked to what you thought was Ilford, they won't give a different answer when wearing their Harman hat.

[Bunwackett]

Ilford is Harman Technology, they aren't two separate companies. Harman is now the Company name and Ilford is their product brand name as is Kentmere, and Harman.

I've been to the factory a number of times over the years, most recently a factory visit 2 years ago.

Ian

If you have been to their factory, then why did you lie and say "They won't help you with a panchromatic emulsion" When on their site, it clearly says in their brochure, what they can do for customers. Small batches are not a problem, they even say "When you phone up they will take credit card details" So as I want a large batch for my own use, I do not see any problem with phoning them up. :cool:

[IanG]

Ilford is Harman Technology, they aren't two separate companies. Harman is now the Company name and Ilford is their product brand name as is Kentmere, and Harman.

I've been to the factory a number of times over the years, most recently a factory visit 2 years ago. Many APUG members in the UK have seen the Ilford emulsion plant, coating facilities, pilot plant, glass plate line (demonstrated), slitting & packing etc.

Harman/Ilford make their all sensitised materials at Mobberly, they also made certain films for Fuji. In the 80's I had some raw emulsion from Ilford, at the time I worked as an emulsion/photographic chemist and they wanted to supply the company I worked for.

Ian

[Bunwackett]

Uh, Harman is the name of the company whose products are generally known as Ilford. A reused name of one of the companies once amalgamated into Ilford. They could not pick Ilford after the collapse and management buyout, as that stuck with the other half of Ilford when it fell apart - the former Ciba photography division making Ilfochrome (which could not go back to Ciba/Cibachrome branding, as that name now is owned by Novartis and BASF).

So basically there is no "middle man" in shape of Ilford - Ilford Photo is a Harman brand. If you already talked to what you thought was Ilford, they won't give a different answer when wearing their Harman hat.


Well I went onto the Ilford site and asked "Do you know where I can source raw emulsion from" Answer "No" It is clear they just wanted me to buy ready made products as they went on to list the 'great products' they have on offer. :mad:

[jnantz]

interesting, i didn't know ilford / harman sold liquid emulsion to the general public. that's good to know seeing the liquid emulsions i have made or used over the years
have been very-slow ...

[Bunwackett]

Look at this and read it, remember where he sourced the raw emulsion from.

http://www.autochromes.fr/english/def.html

Then look at this, and tell me who he thanked and what company he works for. Martin Hadden
Harman Technology

http://www.autochromes.fr/english/merci.html

[Bunwackett]

Ilford is Harman Technology, they aren't two separate companies. Harman is now the Company name and Ilford is their product brand name as is Kentmere, and Harman.

I've been to the factory a number of times over the years, most recently a factory visit 2 years ago. Many APUG members in the UK have seen the Ilford emulsion plant, coating facilities, pilot plant, glass plate line (demonstrated), slitting & packing etc.

Harman/Ilford make their all sensitised materials at Mobberly, they also made certain films for Fuji. In the 80's I had some raw emulsion from Ilford, at the time I worked as an emulsion/photographic chemist and they wanted to supply the company I worked for.

Ian

Well, it's a good thing that I am setting up my own company in the next year. As you already know that they will supply a registered company. The emulsion I get will not be for my own personal use, I am selling a product to customers. So I think you will find they will be more willing to supply a registered company. :)

[bob carnie]

I wonder how much of the emulsion he purchased and for what price?
I love the images btw


Look at this and read it, remember where he sourced the raw emulsion from.

http://www.autochromes.fr/english/def.html

Then look at this, and tell me who he thanked and what company he works for. Martin Hadden
Harman Technology

http://www.autochromes.fr/english/merci.html

[IanG]

Look at this and read it, remember where he sourced the raw emulsion from.

http://www.autochromes.fr/english/def.html

Then look at this, and tell me who he thanked and what company he works for. Martin Hadden
Harman Technology

http://www.autochromes.fr/english/merci.html

Remember that Lumiere who made Autochrome became part of Ciba later Ciba Geigy who also bought Ilford, the Lumiere factory became an Ilford factory, Ilford or maybe their French distributor Lumiere may well still have some documentation etc on the Autochrome process.

I'm sure that if there was a good commercial, scientific or research project Ilford would be interested in helping, they are open to ideas.

They are interested in making and particularly coating emulsions because their skills are also coating and confectioning.

They do make & coat small (& larger) batches of emulsion for other manufacturers or distributors, that's included Fuji, Adox (Fotoimpex), Bergger, Oriental etc over the past few years.

Back in the 1980's I did do some work with Ilford emulsions, they approached me, I had a commercial application for a B&W emulsion, and we were making our own. 60 litres of their emulsions goes a very long way :D

Ian

[Michael Batchelor]

Yes they will help me, if I have the money they will help me do whatever I want....They have a contact number, you phone, ask for what emulsion you want, you pay, they deliver.

If you have the money, you can buy almost anything that's manifest.

[Bunwackett]

Yeah, those images are very good, I would also like to know how much he paid, if he paid at all (As he said the manufacturing company "Gave" him the emulsion) Maybe it was coming up to out of date stock which was left in the storage warehouse, but that's me guessing. The best thing to do, is phone them up, and get information.

[Bunwackett]

That's right Ian, the Lumiere factory did become an Ilford factory. =D

60 liters would go a very long way.

[Pete Watkins]

Now here we go........you're all gonna jump on me. A few years ago Harman were selling 11x14 HP5+ to the American market. I contacted the factory to buy a couple of boxes (I had CASH in those days). They said "No". I offered to collect from the factory and pay on collection with card, cheque or cash. The person who I originally contacted (I can't remember his name but he used to creep around the APUG site where he acted as a sort of publicity officer for Harman) chose to totally ignore my E-Mails.
Then there is the P.O.P. fiasco. Ilford produced the stuff 80 years ago with seemingly no problems, they stopped production and when they bought out Kentmere and sacked most of the staff they killed off their P.O.P. manufacturing facility.
Harman is a prime example of all that's best about British industry, that's why the country's skint.
Foma film is very good though!
Pete.

[Ash]

I'm not sure I can say anything that the OP isn't going to argue against, and I can't offer a direct opinion of Harman (because it will be argued at none-the-less) because I last bought an Ilford product before the buyout.

Mostly I've stopped buying Harman products, they are too expensive. I prefer European and Japanese brands that provide a cheap alternative.

[bob carnie]

You may be referring to Simon Galley.
Actually he is one of the owners and a pretty decent dude.
He still posts on APUG.


Now here we go........you're all gonna jump on me. A few years ago Harman were selling 11x14 HP5+ to the American market. I contacted the factory to buy a couple of boxes (I had CASH in those days). They said "No". I offered to collect from the factory and pay on collection with card, cheque or cash. The person who I originally contacted (I can't remember his name but he used to creep around the APUG site where he acted as a sort of publicity officer for Harman) chose to totally ignore my E-Mails.
Then there is the P.O.P. fiasco. Ilford produced the stuff 80 years ago with seemingly no problems, they stopped production and when they bought out Kentmere and sacked most of the staff they killed off their P.O.P. manufacturing facility.
Harman is a prime example of all that's best about British industry, that's why the country's skint.
Foma film is very good though!
Pete.

[Pete Watkins]

That's him Bob. Probably is "a pretty decent dude", just doesn't answer E-Mails and failed the Customer Care course in my experience. Did he ever apologise for the sacking of The Kentmere employees or was that another E-Mail that he chose to ignore?
Pete.

[cdholden]

There is more to making business decisions than just "sacking the employees." I don't know all the details of their restructuring and I'd bet neither do you.
Just let it go.