Ebony advice

[Gary Tarbert]

Hi , After trying digital stitching (35mm) 8x10 and a few others to try and get the quality i am looking for i have come to the conclusion that the format i get the most satisfaction from is 5x4 personally i think the ease of use and practicality and indeed versatility of this format is what appeals to me , i just enjoy using it so much more than 8x10 .and in miniture format i hate taking 12 images of a scene to later stitch them together in a computer fun ?not!! So this leads me to my question when i first started in LF i fell in love with a camera it was a Ebony but at the time i thought i might not enjoy shooting 5x4 so i currently own a Shen hao which is O.K , don't get me wrong. But i am now looking to buy my last 5x4 and my attention has switched back to the Ebony the model i have settled on is the SV45ti or te same camera different finish.
The reason i settled on this model is i needed a camera that is portable for landscapes but also could double as a studio camera when required i have decided that i would like to keep my 450 nikkor(bought for 8x10) can't use on the Shen hao no problem on the Ebony. So any advice would be great as cannot touch and feel this camera in Perth so would have to buy sight unseen . Cheers Gary

[Gem Singer]

I owned an Ebony SV45te for a few months. Same design as the SV45ti.

Beautiful camera with excellent build quality. However, I found it annoying when it came to choosing between the three focusing knobs on the same side of the camera.

Eventually sold the Ebony and purchased an 8x10 camera with a 4x5 reducing back.

My Nikkor 450M was more suited to the 8x10 camera. Larger Sinar lens boards and more bellows to work with.

[Daniel Stone]

have you given any thought to getting a 5x7 camera with a 4x5 reducing back as an accessory?

if you're shooting b/w only, there's a lot of emulsions still available for that format(5x7), if you're working in color, no-go my friend, unless you cut 8x10 down. 5x7 is almost double the size of 4x5, allowing more "resolution" to work with. Its also a wider perspective, so there's less stitching involved that I can see.

Secondly, the 450 Nikkor would have some more working room bellows-wise with a 5x7 camera than with most 4x5 field cameras.

also, chamonix makes some damn fine cameras, and they cost a good bit less than an ebony. If you have someone around you who has an ebony to play around with and cuddle for an hour or so, try it out, even if it takes you a few hours worth of time in driving. Sure beats buying the wrong camera and trying to re-sell it for a loss, generally a big one, even with Ebony's.

don't get me wrong, just cause they're expensive doesn't mean they aren't great cameras. Design-wise, they're terrific! However, there's less-expensive options out there that might deliver better results and a smoother workflow for you, at a drastically reduced cost, allowing you more $$$ for film :).

but I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money

cheers,

-Dan

[Ken Lee]

"But i am now looking to buy my last..."

That's what we all say :)

[mandoman7]

It seems like the minute I get an outfit configured, guided by certain assumptions about what I'll be shooting, then some new ideas come along that seem to be best accomplished with a different system.

[Bob Kerner]

Are you buying the Ebony new?

I'm not going to try to talk you out of it. But I would suggest that for that price, you should not buy sight-unseen. Find someone near you who has one and road test it first.

And there is no such thing as a last LF camera. Really. I thought I'd buy one camera and be done with it. I'm on #3 in about 5 months. All used, thank goodness. I can say that the fancy wooden one (very expensive when it was sold new) that I thought would be my life partner camera will be for sale very shortly.

[Gary Tarbert]

have you given any thought to getting a 5x7 camera with a 4x5 reducing back as an accessory?

if you're shooting b/w only, there's a lot of emulsions still available for that format(5x7), if you're working in color, no-go my friend, unless you cut 8x10 down. 5x7 is almost double the size of 4x5, allowing more "resolution" to work with. Its also a wider perspective, so there's less stitching involved that I can see.

Secondly, the 450 Nikkor would have some more working room bellows-wise with a 5x7 camera than with most 4x5 field cameras.

also, chamonix makes some damn fine cameras, and they cost a good bit less than an ebony. If you have someone around you who has an ebony to play around with and cuddle for an hour or so, try it out, even if it takes you a few hours worth of time in driving. Sure beats buying the wrong camera and trying to re-sell it for a loss, generally a big one, even with Ebony's.

don't get me wrong, just cause they're expensive doesn't mean they aren't great cameras. Design-wise, they're terrific! However, there's less-expensive options out there that might deliver better results and a smoother workflow for you, at a drastically reduced cost, allowing you more $$$ for film :).

but I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money

cheers,

-DanHi Dan , I shoot a lot of color Velvia 100 when i can get it! so this might cause a problem but how awkward are reducing backs to work with? Cutting film sounds tricky .Cheers Gary

[Gary Tarbert]

"But i am now looking to buy my last..."

That's what we all say :) Hi Ken, That's what i'm telling my wife anyway;) Cheers Gary

[Rick Russell]

Gary,

I purchased Gem Singer's Ebony SV45te years ago. I too desired to use a 450mm lens, but found that it would focus the lens, but with not much bellows draw easily available. I sold the SV45te and purchased the SV45U2 to solve that issue, and to avail myself of the assymmetrical movements. Heavier camera, more expensive, but ultimately the camera for me.

Rick Russell
richardrussell-1@ca.rr.com

[Alan Gales]

Are you buying the Ebony new?

I'm not going to try to talk you out of it. But I would suggest that for that price, you should not buy sight-unseen. Find someone near you who has one and road test it first.

And there is no such thing as a last LF camera. Really. I thought I'd buy one camera and be done with it. I'm on #3 in about 5 months. All used, thank goodness. I can say that the fancy wooden one (very expensive when it was sold new) that I thought would be my life partner camera will be for sale very shortly.

Hey Bob, I hope you like the Sinar F2 that I helped encourage you to purchase. If you don't it's quite all right. I went through the same deal with medium format before I got into 4x5. I have owned Bronica 645 and 6x6,

Hasselblad 6x6, Mamiya 6x7, and Pentax 645. With 4x5 I have owned Cambo, Sinar, and Tachihara. I have recently purchased a used 8x10 Wehman. Fortunately buying used you can try out cameras and lenses and resell

them if they don't quite suit you and not get burned. Frank's not alone. A bunch of us are camera whores!:D

[Gem Singer]

Hi Rick Russell,

So you're the attorney from Calif. who purchased my Ebony?

I often wondered how you liked the SV45te. I considered it to be the Lexus of the camera world. Interesting that you have upgraded to the top of the line Ebony SV45U2.

Didn't realize that model had a longer bellows.

Ebony 4x5's utilize Linhof Tech type lens boards.The Nikkor 450M is mounted in a Copal 3 shutter that requires a 65mm opening. That doesn't leave much lens board material to support a shutter of that size.

How is it working out?

[Gary Nylander]

From one Gary to another,

I own an Ebony RW45 and have actively been using it for the past 1 1/2 years, before that my main camera was a Tachihara which I owned and used for a 17 year period. I really like the RW45, its simpler camera and quite a bit less expensive than the SV45ti that you are a looking at, I find it easy to operate ,and has exceptional quality, its a better built camera than the Tachihara, ( which is a very good camera ). Good luck with your Ebony what ever you buy it will never likely be your "last" camera :)

Gary

[Dave - Landscapes]

G'day Gary. Good to hear you are looking at 5x4". Interesting format and film is still available. Don't forget that you can use say a 6x12cm roll film back with it as well. If you are like me, I look at the work of Adam Monk and the other pano 'experts' and then want to use 6x17cm. So I swing between my 5x4 and Ebony SV57U with a Canham roll film back. Of course weight is an issue if you are taking it into the field.

So I've found it is all about compromises no matter what option you settle on. I'm swinging now away from the heavier field cameras and building up a Chamonix 5x7 system which is considerably lighter (weight and $ wise). Also, I've built up a set of the lighter lenses to work with it. Check out Kerry Thalmann's website for more on lens choices.

Regards

Dave (in Aus)

[Gary Tarbert]

G'day Gary. Good to hear you are looking at 5x4". Interesting format and film is still available. Don't forget that you can use say a 6x12cm roll film back with it as well. If you are like me, I look at the work of Adam Monk and the other pano 'experts' and then want to use 6x17cm. So I swing between my 5x4 and Ebony SV57U with a Canham roll film back. Of course weight is an issue if you are taking it into the field.
So I've found it is all about compromises no matter what option you settle on. I'm swinging now away from the heavier field cameras and building up a Chamonix 5x7 system which is considerably lighter (weight and $ wise). Also, I've built up a set of the lighter lenses to work with it. Check out Kerry Thalmann's website for more on lens choices.

Regards

Dave (in Aus)Hi Dave , I have met Adam , and only spoke to him last week about him doing a bit of scanning for me on his Imacon , I have been using a Shen hao 5x4 for a while , weight is a factor love my fujinon 300 c for this reason , the suggestion that i look at a Chamonix is ringing loud and clear had a look at their website , Cameras look good and their philosphy seems sound.But would a 5x8 be a better option buy 8x10 sheets and cut in half would have to be easier than cutting back to 5x7 and they make a 5x4 reducing back for it it is heavier though. Where do you get your 5x7 scanned in Aus . Cheers Gary

[Dave - Landscapes]

Gary, I'm not an expert on 5x8 but it may be an option for you especially if you can cut 8x10 sheets in half. However, I think that option may rule out using a roll film back?

As I said, I'm wanting to use the Chamonix 5x7 with the Canham rf back and will have that sorted out by June I hope. (At the moment it won't take the rf back and is made to take DDs or similar. Seems silly but thats life!). Then 120 roll film is the option I will be using for panos.

I don't use 5x7 film at all but do have the 5x4 reducing back for it and use that when I can with mainly Fuji Quickloads or the 6x12 rf holder. Any scanning I get done is either now sent away to Adelaide through BICA or Sydney (not tried yet!) or done locally with a guy here in Canberra who has a drum scanner. His work is very good.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Dave

[Brian Ellis]

I've owned about 12 LF cameras in various formats including two 4x5 Ebonys, an SVTi and an SVTe. The Ebonys were the most disappointing of the bunch. Not that they were bad cameras, just that for the price and some raves by other users I expected better. There were several things I didn't like. One, the viewing screen was awful, nice and bright but difficult to focus. Two, I hated the focusing system, whereby when using lenses in the approximate 100 - 240mm range you had to switch from one focus wheel to another in the middle of trying to focus. Beyond irritating. Three, with the Te when setting up the camera it was difficult to get the lens board into the slots and lowered (I may have the terminology wrong here, it's been a while since I owned the cameras). Four, the bag bellows didn't fit correctly which I didn't realize until I had ruined a batch of film, had to return it to the factory for a fix.

At the time I owned mine Shen Hao and Chamonix weren't around (or maybe I just rejected the Shen at the time because I wanted a longer bellows). I've since owned both and I think both are much better values for the money if they otherwise meet someone's needs, especially the Chamonix which IIRC does everything the SVTi and Te did for about a third of the price and is equally well made.

[Frank Petronio]

Eh and just to chime in from the peanut gallery, hanging a 450mm on a light wooden camera seems like a way to get shaky shots, even if it is a high-quality one. Have you ever used a solid camera (ie Linhof, Sinar, Arca) to compare the difference in results?

[Gary Tarbert]

Eh and just to chime in from the peanut gallery, hanging a 450mm on a light wooden camera seems like a way to get shaky shots, even if it is a high-quality one. Have you ever used a solid camera (ie Linhof, Sinar, Arca) to compare the difference in results?Hi Frank ,I have only ever used the 450 on 8x10
so you could be right , That is why i was looking at the more solid build quality of the Ebony ,because i would prefer to keep the lens than sell it just a very good example of the model , I just aquired a Linhof monorail at a swap meet Funny story i wanted the lens he had with his kit , But he wouldn't split it so i made him an offer at only $100 more than the max i was prepared to pay for the lens alone then i realised when he said
the lot he meant the pair of double darks linhof cable release lens shade etc .
I walked away a Happy man , Having said that i have not tried the 450mm on it , i think only just! definately wont be focusing at much under infinity ,I would say at a guess Cheers Gary

[Graybeard]

Eh and just to chime in from the peanut gallery, hanging a 450mm on a light wooden camera seems like a way to get shaky shots, even if it is a high-quality one. Have you ever used a solid camera (ie Linhof, Sinar, Arca) to compare the difference in results?

An 18 inch Artar (pretty close to 450mm) seems to be just fine on my Ebony 4x5. No evidence of shake that I've found or noted (one can count the bricks in architectural shots, the mortar between the bricks is sharp as well). A rock steady tripod is essential with the bellows all the way out.

[Rick Russell]

Gem,

The SV45U2 is all that I could want in a camera. It is extremely stable and I use lenses from 75mm to 45mm. I also occasionally use a 6x17 back and the camera is sturdy enough that the weight of the back is not a problem, given a sturdy tripod.

Gary, I have owned two Ebony's and have loved them both.

Rick Russell
richardrussell-1@ca.rr.com

[Drew Wiley]

I've got both an Ebony and a Sinar. The Sinar monorail system is far more practical with long lenses, the Ebony much more compact and easier to backpack with. With 4x5 in general, I prefer a lighter 450, namely, the Fuji C. A heavy no.3 shutter at that much extension sets up more vibration which is harder to control. Don't get me
wrong - Ebony cameras are superbly made and if you can afford one, get it. But
with a Sinar F or similar monorail you will actually have far more studio versatility,
at a far lower price.

[Gary Tarbert]

I've got both an Ebony and a Sinar. The Sinar monorail system is far more practical with long lenses, the Ebony much more compact and easier to backpack with. With 4x5 in general, I prefer a lighter 450, namely, the Fuji C. A heavy no.3 shutter at that much extension sets up more vibration which is harder to control. Don't get me
wrong - Ebony cameras are superbly made and if you can afford one, get it. But
with a Sinar F or similar monorail you will actually have far more studio versatility,
at a far lower price.Hi Drew , You are right i have become too attached to this lens and i am trying to redesign my whole bag to accomodate it a 450 in a copal 3 on a wooden 5x4 field camera is folly even if the extension is there and would be better of selling the Nikkor and if i need this focal length going to the Fuji , I have the Fuji 300c and just love it for size coverage & image quality . BTW i think my sample of the Nikkor M is a fairly late sample with a serial #766535 correct me if i'm wrong . Cheers Gary

[Gem Singer]

Gary,

Your Nikon/Nikkor 450M lens is a later one. However, the last large format lenses that Nikon manufactured had 800*** serial numbers.

Since you already have a Fuji 300C, sell or trade the Nikon 450M and get a Fuji 450C.

Those two Fuji's make a nice pair of small, lightweight, long lenses for 4x5.

[Professional]

In fact i am still looking at to get Ebony even i just got Shen Hao, it lacks only one movement which is a front shift, so i feel i want to get another 4x5 with full movements front and back, and i found few Ebony 4x5 have those, so i am not sure if that only movement is important for an application i would like to know before i get another camera.
Also the Ebony 4x5 with the full movements have longer bellows, so this will allow me to use longer lenses, but is it worthy to go with 5x7 or 8x10 rather than 4x5?

[Jim Becia]

Hi , After trying digital stitching (35mm) 8x10 and a few others to try and get the quality i am looking for i have come to the conclusion that the format i get the most satisfaction from is 5x4 personally i think the ease of use and practicality and indeed versatility of this format is what appeals to me , i just enjoy using it so much more than 8x10 .and in miniture format i hate taking 12 images of a scene to later stitch them together in a computer fun ?not!! So this leads me to my question when i first started in LF i fell in love with a camera it was a Ebony but at the time i thought i might not enjoy shooting 5x4 so i currently own a Shen hao which is O.K , don't get me wrong. But i am now looking to buy my last 5x4 and my attention has switched back to the Ebony the model i have settled on is the SV45ti or te same camera different finish.
The reason i settled on this model is i needed a camera that is portable for landscapes but also could double as a studio camera when required i have decided that i would like to keep my 450 nikkor(bought for 8x10) can't use on the Shen hao no problem on the Ebony. So any advice would be great as cannot touch and feel this camera in Perth so would have to buy sight unseen . Cheers Gary

Gary,

I have the Ebony SV45ti and think it's the best. I have gone through several 4x5s before settling with this camera. That includes Canham (both DLC and MQC), Toyo AII, and Tachihara. I have had the chance to "play" with a few other cameras at Badger Graphics over the years, but the Ebony (my personal opinion here) out shines them all. I liked the Ebony so much I also have a 5x7 and a 8x10 version also. The Ebony 45SVti will handle a 450 at infinity, however, I put my Fuji 450 on an extension set so I could focus closer. While I don't know how it would work with the Nikkor 450, I can say that I have never had a problem with sharpness with the bellows extended out. Of course, that means I probably make sure that the conditions were calm, but that's kind of the norm with large format. It's weight is reasonable (the mahogany version) at about 4.5 pounds. I've taken it with me on a few backpack trips. Again, and this is my personal opinion, it is a wonderful camera and I don't see anything out there that would make me change my mind at this time. Jim Becia

[Malcolm70]

Gary,
I purchased an Ebony SV45U2 late last year. With the standard "Universal" bellows (with the bag type front section), I use it successfully with 110 - 450 (FujiC) lenses; no instability/rigidity/shake problems. The asymmetric rear tilts & swings are handy. I had some focusing issues with the standard fresnel ground glass (a non-fresnel 4x5 gg isn't available from the manufacturer), but have replaced it with a gridded non-fresnel gg made by Steve Hopf.
Agree that Ebony's are very expensive, and that less costly alternatives are available. For me, the SV45U2 is an ideal combination of design, materials, assembly, functionality, stability, and portability. Everything but the tripod fits in a f.64 backpack.

[Drew Wiley]

The one thing I didn't like was the Fresnel/gg, which was prone to fogging. I replaced
it with a Satin Snow glass, though with just a tiny bit of trimming width-wise, a Sinar
glass will also fit. Ebony cameras do seem to hold their rigidity at extension better than
other wooden cameras. I am certainly glad I spent the extra to buy one.

[Gary Tarbert]

Hi guys thanks for all the great feed back , I am going to go this way , hopefully it is the correct decision , I will order today a 5x8 Chamonix C/W 5x4 reducing back and about 3 or 4 5x8 holders , even with the added exspense of new holders it will come to less than the Ebony 45ti , The tipping point was when my local lab agreed to pass my special rate for 5x4 and process the 5x8 E6 at the same discounted rate. the film splicing is simple with 5x8 also all i'm doing is modifying A4 office cutter so you can find 5 inches in the dark.
The only downside with this as i see it is you lose the notching on one sheet so now i have to come up with a system for making my own notching , thought of a hole punch but worried in the dark it may be easy to perforate to far into the film accidently , any ideas? Cheers Gary

[brian mcweeney]

Gary,
You are going to be setting up a system to cut the film in the dark, just make an additional guide to cut a corner off one end. Then all your film will have a notch or a cut corner in the same place for easy loading.