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ThePenguin
20-Feb-2011, 12:35
I need some advice regarding choosing equipment. I currently have a Pacemaker Speed Graphic with the Aero-Ektar 178/2.5 and it's a wonderful combination. But I rarely use it, I think it's to heavy to bulk around with.

I will use the camera for mostly landscapes and nature, but maybe also some architecture. And I got really interested in a panoramic camera (6x17) but I also like the 4x5 format. How is it to use a 6x17 adaptor on a 4x5 camera? Do you get good results comparing to a dedicated panoramic camera? I will use the camera on a tripod. Now I'm trying to figure out witch camera I should choose and what (lets say 3) lenses to get and I'm hoping YOU can help me :)

Thanks!

Professional
20-Feb-2011, 12:58
I did ask about using a roll back of 6x17 on 4x5 here but then the comments or posts showing me that it is not a good idea, buying a dedicated 6x17 is better, i asked also if i will use only tripod, but seems even with tripod it is not a better choice, so maybe i have to forget about that roll back and try to find 6x17 camera cheap new.
Meanwhile, i am so happy with 4x5, so i will spend time to use 4x5 as it is my first time to use LF, later i will worry about 6x17.

engl
20-Feb-2011, 13:23
If you use a 6x17 back on a 4x5 camera, you will run into some issues with wide and long lenses. The back moves the film plane back, so depending on choice of camera, you might have trouble focusing to infinity with a very wide lens. Long lenses (I've read up to 150mm is no problem) will start cutting off the sides of the image. In theory, I guess there should be vignetting from extensive movements with a wide lenses as well, but I do not know if this is a real problem.

The above might of course not be a problem for you, depending on your choice of lenses and camera.

Lachlan 717
20-Feb-2011, 13:30
It's not that a roll film back is a bad thing; it is a LIMITED thing.

If you're not intending to use wide or long lenses, it could be a perfect choice.

Just understand the limitations of the design before making a decision either way.

As for lenses, perhaps give some indication of what you want to do. Do you want to shoot wide? Do you want to shoot long? Landscapes? Urban? Portraits? Macro? Tabletop? Sport? Cityscapes? Only then will we be able to assist you with information/recommendations...

ThePenguin
20-Feb-2011, 14:27
Thanks for you advice! I'm mainly going to shoot landscapes, nature, cityscapes but also some portraits and editoral.

I need some advice on what camera to choose and what 3 lenses I should start out with. I looking for something more flexible then the combo I have today.

Professional
20-Feb-2011, 14:36
In fact the only 2 things i want to shoot 6x17 for are landscapes and some cityscape or urban/architecture, and i don't need to shoot very wide because that 6x17 will be wide enough than wider normal, so i can use normal lens and i will be happy.

Also limiting for me can be a bad thing, if i have between two choices and one is limiting then for sure i will go for un-limiting option, but i know that money-budget is another limiting factor, so i have to see whether design/movements limiting is more important than money limiting option.

engl
20-Feb-2011, 15:48
Wanting to shoot cityscapes and some architecture, you are going to need a camera which is fairly friendly to wide angle movements. Landscape, nature, portrait means you might want somewhat long lenses, as well as good front movements. I do not think you will need a lot of, if any, back movements for what you do.

I also assume you want something fairly light and small, since you said the Speed Graphic with Aero Ektar was too bulky and rarely used.

I'd take a look at the Chamonix 045N-2. For more ruggedness/stability and geared front movements, you could get a Wista VX. For more movements, maybe a Shen Hao TZ45-IIB. The later two would probably need bag bellows, the Chamonix has universal bellows.

Gem Singer
20-Feb-2011, 16:04
Look for a 5x7 camera that has an international back with Graflok sliders.

Get a 6x17 roll film holder and a 4x5 reducing back. That way, you will be able to choose from three different formats on the same camera.

More versatile and less expensive than a Linhof or Fuji dedicated 6x17 camera.

Vaughn
20-Feb-2011, 16:44
If roll film is not the issue, I would suggest a 4x5 and crop when needed to panoramic. Closer to 6x12 instead of 6x17 if one splits the 4x5 in half. Or use a modified darkslide and get two images per sheet of 4x5 with the same proportions as 6x17.

Keeps the amount of equipment to a minimum and easy to enlarge with the more common 4x5 enlargers.

ThePenguin
21-Feb-2011, 04:54
Look for a 5x7 camera that has an international back with Graflok sliders.

Get a 6x17 roll film holder and a 4x5 reducing back. That way, you will be able to choose from three different formats on the same camera.

More versatile and less expensive than a Linhof or Fuji dedicated 6x17 camera.

It sound like the ultimate sollution, but wouldn't I have the same limitations with the focus that Lachlan 617 mentioned before?

Lachlan 717
21-Feb-2011, 05:53
It sound like the ultimate sollution, but wouldn't I have the same limitations with the focus that Lachlan 617 mentioned before?

Less with a 5x7 than with a 4x5 because it has a bigger "hole", reducing vignetting.

But I would strongly suggest you investigate the availability of 5x7 film if you're considering this option. It was the sticking point for me; too few, and too costly, alternatives.

ThePenguin
21-Feb-2011, 06:04
Less with a 5x7 than with a 4x5 because it has a bigger "hole", reducing vignetting.

But I would strongly suggest you investigate the availability of 5x7 film if you're considering this option. It was the sticking point for me; too few, and too costly, alternatives.

A 6x17 back would fit perfectly in a 5x7 if I did the math correct. If I go with the 5x7 I want to have a 6x17 back and a 4x5 back. So I probable wouldn't even use it with 5x7 film.

Has anyone tried this? With both a 4x5 back and a 6x17 back? But I can't use the same lenses, I need "bigger" lenses I'm I right?

Steve Hamley
21-Feb-2011, 06:04
As Lachlan says, there's less (or no) vignetting with a 5x7 camera.

The Canham Traditional 4x5 IS a 5x7 with a 4x5 back, and it's light, has all the movements you'd ever need, and is designed to take the Canham 617 roll film back. Shoot 5x7 if you want and 4x5 if you don't. 5x7 is to me the smallest format that will have decent "presence" on a wall. The Traditional will take lenses from 3"/75mm to 25" with the standard bellows according to Canham's website.

Ebony's 5x7 cameras also have Graflok bars and will take the Canham 617 back, but they are considerably more expensive. The SV57U can take lenses from 55mm (or less) to 24"/600mm with 4" to spare with the standard bellows. Of course, you'd have to be using a 4x5 back with lenses that won't cover 5x7/617.

Cheers, Steve

Frank Petronio
21-Feb-2011, 06:27
I actually read your question.... If the Speed Aero is too much of pain to carry around, then why would a 6x17 view camera be any less of a hassle? It'd be worse if anything. A 5x7, 617 back, and three lenses... would be a bone-crushing burden!

Maybe you should consider a medium format-based camera like the Chinese copies of the Fuji copy of the Linhof 617?

And even that may prove to be too much of a hassle since they are not exactly small or flyweight. While the 6x17 format is cool, and rules are meant to be broken, it's not a general all-around thing, it is really hard to do a good headshot with a 617 (maybe you could stitch three verticals together!) Start with one normal popular lens, like the 90mm, and then see what you might need as you progress.

But otherwise please, feel free to buy a bunch of stuff you won't use because that just means someone will get a great deal later when you go to sell it ;-)

My real, genuine advice? Take the silly heavy bulky Aero-Ektar off the Speed and sell it on eBay. Buy a standard 135mm press lens like God intended you to use with the Speed and get someone to recalibrate the rangefinder (or easier yet, just buy a Crown Graphic already with a lens). Get a Horseman 6x12 back if you want to use 120 film. Buy other lenses as needed. The entire package folds up into a box and is easy to carry and shoot with.

Two23
21-Feb-2011, 07:21
My advice would go along with Frank's. With 4x5, you can crop an image to any dimensions you want. I don't see the advantage of fooling around with a back. Get three lenses such as 90mm, 150mm, 300mm and either mount them on your current camera or get a Shen Hao or Chamonix 4x5. Keep it simple.


Kent in SD

Gem Singer
21-Feb-2011, 08:03
Many of the same lenses for 4x5 will also cover 5x7.

Just be sure that the lens has a large enough image circle.

(see the comparison chart on the home page of this website).

ThePenguin
21-Feb-2011, 08:42
Let's say that I instead go with the Gaoersi 617 and perhaps a Shen Hao 4x5, can I use the same lenses on both? Cause I dont want to sets of lenses.

Gem Singer
21-Feb-2011, 09:20
The answer is yes. However, doesn't look like it would be a simple matter to interchange lenses, since the Gaoersi 617 uses a helical focusing mount and the Shen Hao uses Linhof-Tech type lens boards.

See:www.gaoersi-camera.com Look at the picture of the Gaoersi 617 camera. There is also a chart listing the lenses that can be used on the camera.

ThePenguin
21-Feb-2011, 09:45
Yes, thats what concerns me, meybe it's better to buy both the ShenHao 4x5 and 6x17, then I can use the same lenses without trouble, but then I have two very bulky cameras, the Gaoersi seems more flexible.

Gem Singer
21-Feb-2011, 10:18
Tilt is an indispensable movement capability on a large format camera.

The Gaoersi 617 does not have tilt, It only has shift.

However, the 4x5 Shen Hao has more movement capability than most cameras in it's price range.

Look at the cameras that Shen Hao offers in the 5x7 format. Add a 6x17 roll film back and you have the best of both worlds.

Or, settle for a 4x5 Shen Hao with a 6x12 roll film back.

Professional
21-Feb-2011, 11:20
Tilt is an indispensable movement capability on a large format camera.

The Gaoersi 617 does not have tilt, It only has shift.

However, the 4x5 Shen Hao has more movement capability than most cameras in it's price range.

Look at the cameras that Shen Hao offers in the 5x7 format. Add a 6x17 roll film back and you have the best of both worlds.

Or, settle for a 4x5 Shen Hao with a 6x12 roll film back.

So if i get Shen Hao 5x7 with 6x17 roll back it will serve me fine? I have Shen Hao 4x5 so i will not think about 4x5 reduced back.

Gem Singer
21-Feb-2011, 11:47
I'm using a Canham MQC57 camera with the Canham 6x17 (motorized) roll film back.

Also have a 4x5 reducing back with a Cambo Reflex Viewer.

I compare my camera set-up to a "Swiss Army Knife". Can shoot 4x5, 6x17, or 5x7.

The most versatile outfit I have ever owned.

The answer to your question is Yes.

Professional
21-Feb-2011, 11:53
I'm using a Canham MQC57 camera with the Canham 6x17 (motorized) roll film back.

Also have a 4x5 reducing back with a Cambo Reflex Viewer.

I compare my camera set-up to a "Swiss Army Knife". Can shoot 4x5, 6x17, or 5x7.

The most versatile outfit I have ever owned.

The answer to your question is Yes.

OK, good to know, thanks.

Lachlan 717
21-Feb-2011, 13:14
Or get a Shen Hao 4x10 with a 4x5 back.

Mmmmm.... Nice!!

jan labij
21-Feb-2011, 16:07
I suppose (because I'm the cheapskate around here) I'd buy a 135 ektar or graftar in a sync'd shutter and use it on the camera you have.