Panoramic Camera

[ThePenguin]

I'm on the lookout for a panoramic camera (6x17) and have found these different models:

Linhof 617

Fuji G617 / GX617

Horseman SW617

Widepan WP617

Fotoman 617


The cheaper ones:

Gaoersi 617

Dayi 617


The one that really caught my attention:

Shen Hao TFC617


Has anyone had any experiense with these cameras? I'm really interested in the bottom three, they're a little bit cheaper. Please feel free to link some pictures taken with the cameras, and what kin of lens and film you're using.

[IanG]

I've been using a Gaoersi 617 for at least 3 years now and I'm very pleased with the results, build quality is good.

Ian

[Lachlan 717]

I have used the Fuji's and a Fotoman.

I currently own a DaYi and the Shen Hao.

Use the Shen for 90% of the 6x17 stuff I shoot as it is compact, light and I can use any of my lenses from 72mm through to 360mm on it.

The DaYi gets packed when I'm spending time working overseas and don't want the full kit. It's built like a tank, so no need to worry about packing it in Checked luggage. I just remove the lens and GG holder for packing in my carry on.

[Bob Salomon]

Which Linhof 617? The current interchageable lens version is the 617 S III. It also takes a shift adapter for 72, 90 and 110mm lenses and now has a darkslide for mid roll lens chages. A ground glass back is also available.
A Linhof 617 would be pretty old. That was the original version. There were several between that and the S III version.

[rguinter]

For example photos check this thread in the Lounge:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=69756

All mine were done with a Fuji G617 that I bought new circa 1994.

The G617 is long discontinued but still available on auction sites. The GX617 is a more versatile camera but still obsolete and of course not as versatile and more costly than current models built in the large format style.

Bob G.

[Lachlan 717]

Van's thoughts on hand held are what made me hang on to the DaYi... Mightn't be something I'd consider doing often, but it will be a great camera when I do want to!

Even got me thinking about a 72mm nose cone!

[IanG]

I bought my Gaoersi because I often have to work hand-held, there's no way I can do that with a Shen Hao 617 or a 5x4 camera with an extension back.

However I've just restored a British half plate camera and almost finished a 5x4 adaptor for it and then want to add a 6x17 back as well. There are advantages having movements and the idea is that the combination is light weight and flexible. The half plate camera is already significantly lighter than a Wista or Crown Graphic.

Ian

[Professional]

I really interested to know about the difference between a 617 camera and a 617 roll back for 4x5 camera, are both doing the same and have same quality? What's the pros and cons between the two?

[ThePenguin]

I have used the Fuji's and a Fotoman.

I currently own a DaYi and the Shen Hao.

Use the Shen for 90% of the 6x17 stuff I shoot as it is compact, light and I can use any of my lenses from 72mm through to 360mm on it.

The DaYi gets packed when I'm spending time working overseas and don't want the full kit. It's built like a tank, so no need to worry about packing it in Checked luggage. I just remove the lens and GG holder for packing in my carry on.

What kind of lenses are you using on the Shen? Does all largeformat lenses fit on it?


Decide what kind of photography you need to do. For handheld, or quick work on a tripod (when don't
t want a darkcloth)...you can't beat the Goaersi or Fotoman style cameras that come with optical finder and helical focus with depth of field scales (I switched it out to a Sony Tx7 to give me a LCD, which is very precise after you mark off the crop lines on top of stick on LCD screen protectors, if you want more info on attaching, write me). On the other hand, for total control Lachlan knows all about the Shen Hao...a great camera also. It offers tilts, and ability to carry more lenses into the field (no cones consuming space). Both cameras are superb, it's down to personal taste. Fotoman is in business under name Fotoman China...the new website is http://www.fotoman.cc/ .

If you're into close focusing the Shen Hao I imagine is best, and Fotoman 2nd best...allows adding spacers to reduce focus (10mm spacer only $25 and cuts near focus in half, although temporarily you lose infinity with it on).

I currently have the Pacemaker Speed Graphic with the Aero-Ektar 178/2.5 lens, and I'm thinking of selling that one to buy a pamoramic camera. I don't really like the speed, it allways stays at home (but that could be the weather doing that).
I'm mainly going to shoot landscapes and nature, but I also wanna shoot portraits and editoral. And I'm going to use a tripod. For the nature and landscapes a panoramic camera would be fantastic, but to the portrait and editoral I rather shoot with a 4x5. Is there a nice 4x5 with the possiblity to shoot 6x17 aswell?

[Bob Salomon]

I really interested to know about the difference between a 617 camera and a 617 roll back for 4x5 camera, are both doing the same and have same quality? What's the pros and cons between the two?

I wander through Death Valley and then Moab using a Technorama 617 SIII with a 72mm lens and finder and shoot handheld. Wouldn't want to even think of being able to shoot that freely with a 45 and a 617 back.

[Professional]

I wander through Death Valley and then Moab using a Technorama 617 SIII with a 72mm lens and finder and shoot handheld. Wouldn't want to even think of being able to shoot that freely with a 45 and a 617 back.

Why?

[Bob Salomon]

Why?

Know any accurate viewfinder for a 45 using 617? If there isn't you are not going to easily compose 617 hand held.

[IanG]

Why?

If you shoot LF or 617 hand-held you'd understand.


All the dedicated 617 cameras except the Shen Hao 6x17 field camera are easy to hand hold, as long as you're not wild with longer focal length lenses.

Bob Salomon was talking about Death Valley, so lots of light, I shoot in Turkey/Greece etc so similar. With 100 EI film that's 1/125th f16 sometimes a stop brighter, I more usually shoot with Delta 400 so 1/250 @ f22 is posible, so lots of DoF, I only use a 75, Super Angulon although I have a v=cone etc for a 90mm.

Now I shoot 5x4 regularly hand held I've just switched from a Crown Graphic to a Super Graphic and use HP5 the camera's balance nicely and I can use the sports finders.

The problem with adding a 617 back to a 5x4 camera is it's an extension back, using a 75mm or wider isn't very practical, it may not focus to infinity. Then there's the effect the extension back has on the balance of the camera making it harder to hand hold, and there's no quick way of framing, you need to use the ground glass screen, no problem if you're using a tripod but useless for hand held work.

Ian

[Professional]

Know any accurate viewfinder for a 45 using 617? If there isn't you are not going to easily compose 617 hand held.


If you shoot LF or 617 hand-held you'd understand.


All the dedicated 617 cameras except the Shen Hao 6x17 field camera are easy to hand hold, as long as you're not wild with longer focal length lenses.

Bob Salomon was talking about Death Valley, so lots of light, I shoot in Turkey/Greece etc so similar. With 100 EI film that's 1/125th f16 sometimes a stop brighter, I more usually shoot with Delta 400 so 1/250 @ f22 is posible, so lots of DoF, I only use a 75, Super Angulon although I have a v=cone etc for a 90mm.

Now I shoot 5x4 regularly hand held I've just switched from a Crown Graphic to a Super Graphic and use HP5 the camera's balance nicely and I can use the sports finders.

The problem with adding a 617 back to a 5x4 camera is it's an extension back, using a 75mm or wider isn't very practical, it may not focus to infinity. Then there's the effect the extension back has on the balance of the camera making it harder to hand hold, and there's no quick way of framing, you need to use the ground glass screen, no problem if you're using a tripod but useless for hand held work.

Ian

WOW, so is that all because handhold? In fact i don't use Large Format even that Speed/Crown Graphic handholding, i always use the tripod, i love to use tripod, even with my 35mm DSLRs shooting landscapes i use tripod about 95%, one friend recommend me to use tripod always when possible, so if using that roll back needing me to use tripod i will be so pleased to do, are there any another issues of using the roll.

[IanG]

WOW, so is that all because handhold? In fact i don't use Large Format even that Speed/Crown Graphic handholding, i always use the tripod, i love to use tripod, even with my 35mm DSLRs shooting landscapes i use tripod about 95%, one friend recommend me to use tripod always when possible, so if using that roll back needing me to use tripod i will be so pleased to do, are there any another issues of using the roll.

I much prefer to use a tripod, but many places where I photograph tripods aren't allowed, getting permissions is tedious, too many different authorities often they want to levy charges etc. The ability to work hand-held save a lot of problems and a small tripod that fit's inside a backpack can be useful :D

It's far easier to work hand-held than I'd initially thought, even with front tilt on the Crown/Super Graphics, with the 617 it's almost point and shoot, with a 75mm @ f22 I hardly need to focus :)

Ian

[rguinter]

I much prefer to use a tripod, but many places where I photograph tripods aren't allowed, getting permissions is tedious, too many different authorities often they want to levy charges etc. The ability to work hand-held save a lot of problems and a small tripod that fit's inside a backpack can be useful :D

It's far easier to work hand-held than I'd initially thought, even with front tilt on the Crown/Super Graphics, with the 617 it's almost point and shoot, with a 75mm @ f22 I hardly need to focus :)

Ian

I agree with Ian on the benefits of handholding panoramic cameras. I have the Fuji G617 and a Widelux 1500.

Although I use tripods for almost all my work, there are occasions where handholding is necessary. To make things easier when handholding these larger cameras I use a pistol-grip that threads into the tripod plate. With this arrangement I've taken several of my all-time best photos over the years.

Bob G.

[Professional]

The problem will be that if i have to think about those Panoramic cameras then i will pay too much, i don't buy used, and if those Panoramic cameras all are discontinued then i don't have any choice as a new, so looking at Panoramic New camera or a Panoramic roll back i see a difference in price, and in fact i will use that roll back if i may think to get with 4x5 only for shots where i use tripod always, i will not use large format or even panoramic cameras in places i can't use tripod or i don't want film cameras, i still have digital cameras including MF, so LF will be dedicated mostly for outdoor landscapes and some architecture where i have a lot of time to setup and wait, i also like the idea of handholding, but is there any Panoramic 6x17 camera New less than $1500 or not more than $2000?

[Lachlan 717]

There are several new dedicated 6x17 cameras under the $1500 limit. These are all of Chinese manufacture, but I don't think this is an issue.

As for the 6x17 roll back on 4x5, I would reiterate that you are limited in the focal range of usable lenses.

Do some searching here on roll backs for 6x17 images to get more detail on these limitations.

[Professional]

There are several new dedicated 6x17 cameras under the $1500 limit. These are all of Chinese manufacture, but I don't think this is an issue.

As for the 6x17 roll back on 4x5, I would reiterate that you are limited in the focal range of usable lenses.

Do some searching here on roll backs for 6x17 images to get more detail on these limitations.

OK, if i can get some new dedicated 6x17 cameras even at about $2000 that will be great, just i don't want to spend too much over $2000 on just body, so if i can get around or less than $1500 that is a big bonus, but can you link me to one of those?
I don't care about Chinese, my Shen Hao 4x5 is chinese and it is working flawlessly from what i see [until i see the B&W sheets as well soon].

[Lachlan 717]

Check eBay. Quite a few there.

[cgrab]

I have experience with the Fuji G617 and GX617. Besides the interchangeable lenses, the biggest advantage of the GX series are the very nice viewfinders. They are the same on the very expensive Horseman SW617, which seems still available, and the viewfinders can be bought individually from B&H.

For a really bullet-proof panoramic camera, check out the Burke&James Panoram. Mine has a 120mm Angulon lens and a sports viewfinder.

All those cameras are technically not very complicated and usually quite sturdy, so buzing used is no big risk in my opinion, and they seem to hold their value quite well.

Christoph