Film Holders

[revdocjim]

So here goes another slightly embarrassing question. Is there a standard procedure for which side to have out or in on the slide, to indicate the presence of film in the holder and whether it has been exposed?

I have 5 holders of various brands. Some of the slides are black on one side and red on the other (along the tab). Others are black on one side and silver on the other. I haven't decided (or been told) which color stands for what, so I'm always nervous that I'll get mixed up while out shooting and in fact I did lose a couple sheets of film due to such confusion.

[Roger Thoms]

I always use the black to indicate that the film has been exposed.

Roger

[bgh]

I always use the black to indicate that the film has been exposed.

Roger

As do I. I also put a rubber band around the film holder to indicate that film is inside, whether exposed or not (and, hopefully, to stop me from opening it. Not that it has stopped me in the past, of course....).

Bruce

[Brian Ellis]

My method was white = empty holder, black and holder right-side up in zip lock bag = unexposed film in holder, black and holder upside down in zip lock bag = exposed film in holder. There's lots of different ways, none perfect. Just come up with a way that you're comfortable with and that you can remember.

[Preston]

White: Empty or Unexposed. Black: Exposed.

I use a rubber band on loaded holders. When a holder has been exposed, I put them upside down in the bag. I keep empty holders completely separate from loaded ones.

--P

[Mark Woods]

White: Empty or Unexposed. Black: Exposed. I also keep loaded film holders in a plastic bag completely separate from empty holders that are not in a bag and are waiting to cleaned and loaded.

[drew.saunders]

I also do white for unexposed or empty, and black for exposed, but when I re-load them, they go in the fridge, so white and not in the fridge is empty, white and in the fridge is loaded and unexposed.

[Leigh]

Well, just to be a contrarian...

Black = no light = unexposed
White = light = exposed

I keep unloaded holders physically separated in the darkroom, on a shelf. If a question arises, I can always turn off the light and open the holder to see if it has film or not.

- Leigh

[lenser]

White-unexposed. Black -exposed. When empty, I keep the dark slide only about half inserted which makes it very obvious, and put them in a large zip lock to keep dust out.

[Lenny Eiger]

I get the largest zip-lock bags I can find and put about 5 holders in each. A sharpie indicates what kind of film I have in the bag... A lot of folks use rubberbands as the slides can vibrate out in the car - if you store them vertically. I use a clam-shell box to hold them and stack them sideways - and I've never had a problem. And of course, black means exposed - one has to align one's self with the history of the medium... ;-)

Lenny

[Merg Ross]

If you are the sole user, you can make up the rules.

However, if you are sharing holders with multiple users, as I did doing press work, you would adhere to the professional practice of silver (white) unexposed, black exposed or empty. The black would be turned to silver (white) only at the time of reloading to prevent taking an empty holder on assignment believing it was loaded. The color tab you mention probably identifies the type of film.

[tgtaylor]

I'm another one that uses the black side to indicate an exposed sheet and the white for unexposed.

I also carry a small 120 page wire bound note book with me to jot down notes (location, exposure given, etc) for each sheet. Before heading out the door for a shooting session I enter today's date and directly under it indicate the holders containing a particular film. For example: Acros: 9,1,5,11...etc. Then when I expose a sheet I'll indicate in the notebook the particulars on that exposure. Each holder is numbered with an A and B side. 9A and 9B.

If I return without shooting all the holders, I re-list that holder on the next shooting session. That way I don't have to look back thru my notes for the type of film holder X contains. Since I shoot multiple types of film - color, B&W, IR, E-6 and carrying each type in a separate carrying case would be inconvenient, this has proven to be a reliable system for me. The main thing is to:

1. Number each of your holders.
2. Standardize on what side of the dark slide indicates exposure .
3. Be sure that you insert the correct side of the dark slide after exposure.
4. Record in the notebook which holders have what in them.
5. Record each exposure immediately after it's made.

Thomas

[amac212]

For me black=exposed.

I also numbered all of my holders using nailpolish on the frame. And just as I use a little digital recorder to record all my exposure notes when shooting medium format, I do the same for large, indicating the # on the holder. Among other things, it has helped me identify a holder that might be going bad due to light leaks.

[SocalAstro]

Well, just to be a contrarian...

Black = no light = unexposed
White = light = exposed

- Leigh

That's how I to it too; for the same reason as well :-)

[Noah A]

In college I was taught that white=unexposed and black=exposed. I never felt it made sense to change, since this is pretty much a standard among all of the pros I've ever known or worked with.

Of course it doesn't really matter, as long as YOU can keep track of your own system.

Also, black=empty. I don't turn the slides around until I clean the holders and reload them. If white were to mean empty, how would you know if your holders are loaded or not?

However you do it, I would think that you'd want your 'exposed' color code to also mean 'empty'. That way one side means the holder is ready to go and the other means don't shoot (either exposed or empty).

[Heroique]

I simply write a number on the white strip on the holder’s body (not the slide).

For example, a single holder would have #1 on one side, and #2 on the other side.

My field notes – ordered by number – remind me which side (of which holder) is empty, loaded, exposed, unexposed, etc. I’m careful not to lose my field notes!

I was never good at white/black orientation. It’s especially difficult for me to coordinate the two options of white/black with potentially three options of empty; loaded-unexposed; and loaded-exposed.

[dave_whatever]

Well, just to be a contrarian...

Black = no light = unexposed
White = light = exposed



I'm with you on that one - its the only way the makes sense logically to me.

[Heroique]

BTW, the entertaining thread titled Forgot to reverse a darkslide after shooting ( http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=48068&highlight=holder
) persuaded me never to go back to using white/black orientation. The thread describes quite a nightmare.

Here’s the first sentence that leads to a very complicated problem:

“I went out this morning to take my first shots with my new Chamonix. I hiked, set up my first shot, was very careful, took the shot, and was pleased. I went to location 2 and set it up, took a shoot and then realized when replacing the holder in my bag that I had forgot to reverse the darkslide for shot 1. Crap.”

It’s the type of mistake I would make.

Others swear by white/black simplicity, and have never made mistakes because they use it.

[jb7]

Silver tarnishes with exposure, and goes black-

[Noah A]

I'm with you on that one - its the only way the makes sense logically to me.

It may make sense for slide film--but do you do it the other way around when shooting negs:D ?

[K. Praslowicz]

Well, just to be a contrarian...

Black = no light = unexposed
White = light = exposed



That has always been my thought process on film holders as well.

[sun of sand]

How do you develop without taking notes on which films are to receive which development and so on
sometimes I want to develop certain exposures
for instancde all N or N+1 at a time

label 1234 and AB in case use a panoramic darkslide

[E. von Hoegh]

Well, the white/silver sides have "EXPOSED" painted on them.
So: Black = unexposed
White = exposed
White with locks turned in = empty. It's worked so far. :)

[Professional]

I didn't start to shoot LF film yet, and because the holder issue can be an issue in real experiment then i have to find a way that i don't screw up things, so the way i will use [and sure many did before] is to use a powerful stick on the darkslide and right a word exposed or unexposed on it, so by this way i know which side is exposed, i don't think i will be so idiot to not know if i exposed the film or not, and i will be more dumper if i expose the film and put "unexposed" darkslide side of it, i have to be careful and accurate than just be in hurry and dunno if i loaded the film or i exposed it, if there any another better way you didn't mention then please share us.

I also would like to buy 2 bags, i will write on one "Exposed", and the other "Unexposed, they didn't need to be so large bags, so i can put each holder on the bag that it stated on, or i may buy a bag that have both different sides or 2 places so i can divide both sides to each holder, so i know where is exposed film is from the unexposed one, and it seems i will shoot very few shots with LF because we don't have that many sight-seeing around to use 10+ sheets at one day.

[civich]

I read this little mnemonic somewhere and have lived by it: "white has seen the light"
- Chris

[Merg Ross]

To further beat this horse, and add to the long accepted professional use of holders, note the raised bumps on the silver portion of the darkslide. The silver side denotes unexposed film, and the raised bumps are intended as an aid for night or low illumination photography. Reach into a camera bag at night, feel those bumps, and you know that you have an unexposed holder.

The bumps have an additional function when processing split holders, no bumps means an exposed sheet.

As suggested earlier, the solo worker has the luxury of choice for a system. However, for those who were using holders many years ago, and assisted commercial photographers, the standard was very clear: silver slide unexposed, black slide exposed.

[revdocjim]

Wow! Three pages of replies! Obviously a topic of considerable interest I guess... :)
Film (4x5) holders are very easy to get here in Tokyo in used camera shops. At my favorite store they usually have a big full of them in the junk section, all priced at about 350 yen ($4). When I got my first 4x5 camera I didn't know which holders were best so I made a point of picking out several different types. I have two with metal tabs on the slides (Fidelity Deluxe and Riteway) and 3 with plastic tabs (Toyo, Fidelity Elite and Lisco Regal). The metal tabs are silver on one side and black on the other. The Lisco is black on one side and white on the other. The other two are black on one side and red on the other.

From everyone's comments I understand that the industry standard has been for black to signify exposed film. At the same time I can certainly understand why several feel that it is more intuitive for black to signify unexposed and white (or silver or red) to signify exposed film.

Nevertheless the problem remains because flipping the slides offers two positions but as has been stated, there are three possible situations; no film, unexposed film, exposed film. Using the stopper pins was suggested by my experience is that they can easily get turned unintentionally in my bag. Separate bags might work, but during the summer it is really humid here and I don't think a plastic bag would be advisable. So I'm leaning toward rubber bands. They would signify a holder that contains film, warning me not to open it. Then the tab color would tell me whether it is exposed or not. The only problem is that having to remove the rubber band when shooting and then immediately replacing it is a bit cumbersome.

By the way, several have mentioned cleaning film holders. I didn't know they needed to be cleaned but of course if I think about it, it makes perfect sense. So how does one go about cleaning a film holder? Just blow the dust off with a blower? Or something more intense?

[MIke Sherck]

I have a small hand-held vacuum cleaner originally used to clean automobile upholstery. It's battery powered and I got it at a garage sale for $2. I vacuum each film holder before I load it. When I buy additional film holders (all of my holders, 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 are used,) I use the house vacuum cleaner for the first cleaning as it's more powerful but for light cleaning the battery powered one works fine.

I use the black side out as unexposed film, white out is exposed (I too use "white is light",) and I do not carry unloaded film holders in my bag. Why on Earth would one carry unloaded film holders around? ALL my film holders are carried in plastic ziploc bags; gallon size holds two 4x5 or 5x7, two-gallon bags hold a pair of 8x10s. I carry six to eight 4x5 or 5x7 holders, or 4 8x10, in the backpack with the camera; reloads are in a collapsible cooler in the car's trunk. If I for some reason would feel the need to have unloaded film holders with me, they'd be in the spares bag in ziploc bags with the slides partially withdrawn. But I still can't see why I'd want to do that. :)

Mike

[Bob McCarthy]

Zip lock bags, rubber bands and post-it notes inside bags keep me organized.

I do use black to mean exposed film inside.

bob

[Professional]

Where to find the zip lock bags to order online?

[MIke Sherck]

Where to find the zip lock bags to order online?

I buy mine from the local supermarket. I like "Spartan" brand bags because they're the only ones around who carry the 2-gallon size.

Mike

[Brian C. Miller]

Where to find the zip lock bags to order online?

Ziploc bags (http://www.ziploc.com/)

Do a Google search on Ziploc, and you will see plenty of online stores. You can get them custom printed, too.

[Bart B]

A most interesting thread. Having recently acquired a Super Speed Graphic, I've been going round and round with the "How Do I Mark Film Holders?" issue for some time. In the 1960's, when I had a Century Graphic 2x3, all I had was a roll film back; film holders weren't an issue. But ne'er the less, that dark slide had to be put in some way so I could tell if the back was loaded or not by just looking at it. I finally put spots of red paint on one edge of the dark slide and put them out (back?) when there was film in it.

I've decided on the aforementioned "light - white" convention mentioned earlier. Black side out if the film inside is unexposed; white out if it is. Used steel wool to clean the grey corroded surfaces of the dark slide's bare aluminum part. I'll use some aluminum blackening stuff to well-darken the black side; paint that's on them comes off. The four bumps on the Riteway filmholder dark slide's bright aluminum tell me that side's exposed. Meanwhile, I've just been putting holders with exposed film in them in the bag hinge-end up. Not gonna do that any more.

I applaud the person who mentioned rubber-banding holders that are exposed. Never thought of that, but had some concerns about how to tell the difference between holders with exposed film in them and others holding unexposed film. Three cheers to you and the others mentioning it.

I remember some time ago about the black side of the slide should be out if it's over exposed film because B&W negative film exposed to light is black after it's developed. Don't know if this is the reasoning but I can see the logic of it.

I suppose which side one puts out for whatever reason is much like women and politics. Go with whatever makes you feel the best and is the most rewarding and fool proof for you; based on how you think and what's important.

[Leigh]

I remember some time ago about the black side of the slide should be out if it's over exposed film because B&W negative film exposed to light is black after it's developed.
I've heard that rationale, but I think it's specious.

The film is never developed while in the holder, so what difference does it make?

- Leigh

[Bart B]

About the dark slide's handle/tab color that's supposed to be out if the film under it's exposed, does any film holder's instructions (camera's, too) state what the standard/preffered/proper way is?

The internet's encylopaedia "Wikipedia" says about the dark slides:
Many dark slides have differently colored bands or handles on each side, one usually light and the other dark, to allow the photographer to distinguish between film which has been exposed and that which hasn't.with no mention of how they're supposed to be used. Nor does my Super Speed Graphic's manuals.

If there's some company's standard on this, I'd like to know which one it is and what they say's the correct way to use them. Here's one site with great details about loading and using film holders and what color should be out/in:

http://www.butzi.net/articles/filmload.htm

[Mark Stahlke]

I try to keep it simple. I write the film type on the white side with a china marker. White side out means unexposed film and black side out means exposed. I pull the dark slide out a couple of inches on empty holders.

[Roger Thoms]

Where to find the zip lock bags to order online?

http://www.uline.com/Grp_5/Poly-Bags-Reclosable

good selection of sizes and thicknesses.

Roger

[Roger Thoms]

http://www.uline.com/Grp_5/Poly-Bags-Reclosable

good selection of sizes and thicknesses.

Roger

I didn't realize that in most carton have 1000 bags, makes it kind of expensive. Sorry.

Roger

[Jim Jones]

. . . If there's some company's standard on this, I'd like to know which one it is and what they say's the correct way to use them. . . .

Graphic Graflex Photography by Morgan and Lester, 4th. ed., 1944, states, "When this slide is replaced in the holder after the film has been loaded into it, the raised dots should face outward. . . . After an exposure is made the slide is replaced in the holder with these raised dots of the bright metalic side facing inside. The darkened side of the handle will now indicate that the film has been exposed. This is universally adapted code famliar to all experienced photographers, who can at a glance can tell which of their film holders contain exposed negatives. The insertion of the slide in the holder following loading, with the raised dots outside -- and the reinsertion of the slide following an exposure, with its darkened side outside, should become a part of a rigid routine which will preclude double exposures and other mishaps. The same should be said about the simple but most frequently forgotten part of the routine; the withdrawal of the slide itselv before each exposure, and its replacement immediately after each exposure, before anything else is done." The 11th edition, 1958, briefly restates the same information.

The Navy training course, Photographer's Mate 3 of 1958 says, "Replace the dark slide with the BRIGHT side facing outward to indicate that the film is ready for exposure. Turn the catch or hook over the top of the dark slide to prevent accidental withdrawal. After exposing the film reinsert the dark slide with the black side of the handle facing outward to indicate that the film has been exposed."

Such rules are important when several photographers may use the same film holders. When working alone, we can disregard them. It's like driving on the right side of the road (in most countries); it prevents unfortunate mishaps involving others.

[MIke Sherck]

This is universally adapted code famliar to all experienced photographers...

Obviously, they never met us! :)

Sometimes I think that the only "universal" characteristic among photographers is that we use cameras... and then I remember photograms. *Sigh*

Mike

[Heroique]

Thanks, Jim. :) Reminds me that conflicting “how-to” books can get us into trouble:

-----
A Graphic Graflex photographer is busy working w/ his many film holders.

A friendly Photogapher’s Mate photographer walks up and says, “Here, let me help you w/ all those!”

“Thanks!” the Graphic Graflex guy replies. “You can start w/ these…”

[Bart B]

The Navy training course, Photographer's Mate 3 of 1958 says, "Replace the dark slide with the BRIGHT side facing outward to indicate that the film is ready for exposure. Turn the catch or hook over the top of the dark slide to prevent accidental withdrawal. After exposing the film reinsert the dark slide with the black side of the handle facing outward to indicate that the film has been exposed."Well, this brings back memories of my days in the US Navy (22.5 years of 'em, to be exact). A good friend of mine was a Photographer's Mate First Class at at the time. In 1959, I showed him my new 35mm camera then handed it to him so he could check it out. He looked through the viewfinder, focused the lens on my face then said: "This Nikon F will be the death knell to those Speed Graphics and Rolleiflexes we've got down in the shop."

[Jim Jones]

. . . In 1959, I showed him my new 35mm camera then handed it to him so he could check it out. He looked through the viewfinder, focused the lens on my face then said: "This Nikon F will be the death knell to those Speed Graphics and Rolleiflexes we've got down in the shop."

The Navy was still using Speed Graphics when I retired in 1969, but SG equipment was starting to show up in military surplus sales. With a new SG and lens costing over a month's pay, those surplus sales were paradise. I still occasionally use the surplus 90mm Optar with recessed lensboard that cost $13 in pristine condition.

[Vlad Soare]

How do you develop without taking notes on which films are to receive which development and so on
By inspection. :p :D