PDA

View Full Version : My New Wilderness 8x10



celticexplorer
2-Feb-2011, 13:05
Yesterday I took delivery of my new Wilderness 8x10 from China. I was not sure what to expect as I could find no information at all from anyone who had bought or handled one. So when opening the box I was a bit nervous. When I took it from its wrapping I knew that I had bought the right camera. Its an all metal 8x10 field camera built in with a design not unlike a Phillips Compact . For an all metal camera it's light at around 8-9 pounds..I have not weighed it yet. It has been engineered like a tank with every part being a metal of some sort. It was easy to erect, locks off to become very stable and has all of the movements that I will ever need. I put my 360 onto it which it seemed to handle fine though my work horse will be either my 240mm or my yet to be purchased 300mm...over 360 I am not sure if it would have all of the extension required. As of yet I have not had it in the field...it just came yesterday but I cannot wait to do so. I wanted a camera that was a modern and had all of the advantages of the best cameras on the market today... and I think that I have found it. I have no idea who designed or built it or where the factory is...but whoever you are thank you very much...I think I have my 10x8 for life..

Robert Hughes
2-Feb-2011, 13:08
Well ... where are the pictures of it? Don't leave us in suspense.

celticexplorer
2-Feb-2011, 13:10
I found it here www.bhcamera.us/wilderness810.php

celticexplorer
2-Feb-2011, 13:11
Next week I will do a video of it with its movements and will post it on you tube for you to see..

Bob McCarthy
2-Feb-2011, 13:19
Woowee, it takes the Sinar shutter. I believe I just found my next camera. Let's hear all about it.

Bob

celticexplorer
2-Feb-2011, 13:27
Hi Bob....when I looked at the images that the seller had on his site everything seemed good except for the fact that the rear standard pivots from the bottom and didn't seem to have a brace that attached to the center of the standard..like most other cameras...so this was the first thing that checked..It locks off more sturdy than my Sinar F2 8x10 and much more than my Linhof Technikardan 45...The rear standard clicks into postion and the whole locks off to become very rigid...saying all of this though the proof will be in the pudding...once I have shot something I will post again with my thoughts..

Vlad Soare
2-Feb-2011, 13:36
Wow, that looks really good. And 2100 dollars for a brand new metal 8x10" camera is not bad at all.
All metal and only 3.75 kg! :eek:

Drew Wiley
2-Feb-2011, 13:41
The link shows it weighing in at 8-1/4lb, and with 640mm of bellows extension, which
means even a 600 lens should be usable with a tophat, or at inifinity without one.
I'd be curious about the quality of the bellows material and of the central focus screw.

Gem Singer
2-Feb-2011, 13:53
Judging from the pictures on the BH Camera website, The Wildermess 8x0 has features that are similar to the all metal KB Canham JMC 810.

Folds like the Canham and has rear base tilt like the Canham. However, it uses a lead screw focusing mechanism similar to the Phillips.

The pictures show a Sinar to Linhof Tech lens board, as well as a Sinar shutter. Are these options?

A great combination of two outstanding camera designs.

If the build quality is high, this camera should prove to be a winner.

Hope the OP keeps us informed.

Professional
2-Feb-2011, 13:54
Please, make a review and let me know, i am still planning to get 8x10 field camera and not sure which one yet, so if your camera satisfying you and you like it then i may think about it as well.

And forgot to say, CONGRATS!!!

Now i am waiting you work out of it.

celticexplorer
2-Feb-2011, 14:01
...the bellows is perfect...just what you might expect .as good as my Sinar in fact...and the focusing screw is metal ( as are all of the knobs) and works really very well....tight and secure yet very responsive...

celticexplorer
2-Feb-2011, 15:55
Hi Professional...I will get a chance to put some sheets through it next week and will post a review for you...

ic-racer
2-Feb-2011, 16:43
The pictures on that link show cameras with either six or four knobs on the front standard. Which did you get? Does it have axial tilt?

Gem Singer
2-Feb-2011, 17:37
The stats list base tilt and center (axial?) tilt on the back.

There doesn't seem to be a knob for center tilt on the back.

Are they referring to center swing or shift?

olwick
2-Feb-2011, 20:04
The camera looks great, although does anyone else think it's weird that:

a) It's named BH Camera, which may or may not be meant to associate it with B&H photo in NY?

b) The contact e-mail address is a gmail address?

Since you got the camera just fine, I"m happy that it worked. I'd have been very wary of that site.

Mark

Gem Singer
2-Feb-2011, 20:24
Old Chinese proverb: "If you're going to copy a name, choose the biggest and the best".

B&H Photovideo in NY has no connection to BH Camera in China.

Lachlan 717
2-Feb-2011, 23:34
The camera looks great, although does anyone else think it's weird that:

a) It's named BH Camera, which may or may not be meant to associate it with B&H photo in NY?

b) The contact e-mail address is a gmail address?

Since you got the camera just fine, I"m happy that it worked. I'd have been very wary of that site.

Mark

I have purchased small/low value stuff several times from this Seller.

All arrived quickly and safely.

celticexplorer
3-Feb-2011, 04:56
when I contacted BH Cameras I thought the same initially...but to purchase they sent me an ebay page so I could then see that they had over 99% positive feedback on over 6000 purchases....I was able to track the progress of the delivery and it arrived 10 days after purchase as was suggested by their emails to me...The two images at the bottom of their page are from an earlier model...when I first made contact they changed some of the images as they said that the camera had been updated...so on my camera the front has separate rise and tilt knobs...the back tilts from the base....

Armin Seeholzer
3-Feb-2011, 13:42
And where is your user report, we need it;--)))

Cheers Armin

retrogaz
3-Feb-2011, 17:25
Hi I've been looking at this camera and it sounds very interesting. Celtic, are you in the UK? I would love to see one in the flesh.
Gareth
Www.garethgardner.com

celticexplorer
4-Feb-2011, 00:56
Hi..yes I am based in SE London..you are wekcome to drop buy to see the camera..

msk2193
5-Feb-2011, 03:32
Bob, got your new camera yet? :D
Nice looking camera.
Too bad I am in the departure lounge at Heathrow when reading this and not before!!

celticexplorer
7-Feb-2011, 01:55
yes..it's a shame as you could have dropped by to have a look...

Bob McCarthy
11-Feb-2011, 10:00
hmmm, any progress on video?

bpb

myoptic
11-Feb-2011, 13:32
Looks like a beautiful thing. When I sold my 8x10 B&J, a horribly rickety thing, and my 11x14 Korona, I swore off the larger of the large formats. This camera is one of those temptations that really makes me wonder about my previous conviction.
It looks quite well made too, and costs less than a used Toyo 810M(II).
I wonder if we are reaching a tipping point of Chinese manufacture, art and artistic production? I vividly remember what people said about Toyotas and Datsuns in the early 70s, and look where they are now.
Leica and Rollei prices are supported by the insatiable Chinese market. With 1.3 billion people, their numbers alone would support the idea that within a generation they will produce giants of photography that may well rival the greatest American, British and French photographers; China has spectacular geography, and has so many people and stories, that it almost can't be helped.
Could this be the Toyo 810M of China, and where to next? Shen Hao and Chamonix have already proven themselves capable LF makers. Anyway, 2100USD seems like a very decent price for such an item.
I'm very much looking forward to reviews of this camera.
David

Daniel Stone
11-Feb-2011, 16:57
I'd love to see a camera with this design made for 4x10. Maybe the manufacturer could make a separate model w/ some AFFORDABLE holders(like a kit :)). 5 holders + camera + 5 lensboards(say, Technika sized). Price it at $1500, and you could sell LOTS of them. I'd buy one :). Especially if they offered a "warranty" of some sort.

-Dan

Roger Cole
11-Feb-2011, 17:13
Man..once I get fully geared back up for 4x5, and replace my elderly and failing Tech III...especially if I luck into a reasonable sized (relatively..) 8x10 enlarger locally...that's an awesome looking camera, especially for the money!

(I should have my head examined for looking at 8x10...)

Sdrubansky
24-Feb-2011, 08:30
So, what is the user verdict on this splendid looking machine?

Also: did you have to pay a lot of custom tax/import duties?

Mat

Jim Becia
24-Feb-2011, 12:17
If anyone is interested, I contacted the company about the chances of them producing a 5x7 and 4x10 reduction back for the 8x10. It may take a while, but they said it was in the works. The camera certainly looks interesting. Jim

Bob McCarthy
24-Feb-2011, 12:28
I was hoping OP would have done a report/video by now.

bob

celticexplorer
25-Feb-2011, 16:28
Hi..I am sorry for not getting back to you sooner as I said that I would, I have been on another shoot.Today I managed for the first time to shoot with the Wilderness 8x10. I have been putting it through it's paces at home getting myself used to collapsing and building it. So here is my verdict for what it's worth.

In it's collapsed state the camera feels easy and reasonably light to handle.I attached a Manfrotto quick release plate so I can pop it on and off my tripod with ease. Once secure on the pod it really only requires 3 movements to build the camera.The belt that holds the camera in it's closed position is popped open. You then remove the GG protector and easily pull the rear standard into position where it clicks when it finds it spot. The knobs at the rear of the standard are great in that they are large , metal and one locks by turning anti-clockwise and the other clockwise, this locking movement feels very natural. Some sort of small washer between the knob and the standard means that very little effort is required to lock the knobs tight.When locked off the rear standard is pretty solid..as solid as one would need. At this point the front standard which is lying flat can be pulled out along it's track and lifted up into position. Again it gets locked off easily at the foot of the standard. The front standard 'tilt' also clicks into position. You then mount your lens on it's Sinar panel. The camera is focused by using
a single knob on the rear bed of the camera, this is not unlike the Phillips Compact, this is also simple and sure in it's movement. So the pros and cons.

Pros
The camera is very light, especially as it's totally metal.It seems that every part of the camera that is not needed has been cut away or drilled out to save weight.
It seems well engineered and is very strong in the same way that a Harley Davidson is.
It is very quick and easy to build and collapse.
Focusing is simple.
It comes with a handy ground glass cover

Cons

The texture of the ground glass is a little too coarse..I will replace that.
Front standard focusing..I know that some of you may not like that.
Don't expect any packaging or boxes..it didn't come with any...I have no idea who makes the camera.

I think that this is a good camera and I like it very much ( so far). It has been refined down to the bare essentials of what you might need from an 8x10.

celticexplorer
25-Feb-2011, 16:32
...Hi Mat..no ..I wasn't asked for any extra tax..I am in the UK

pjotr
4-Apr-2011, 18:01
Hi celtic explorer,

maybe you could post some photos of your camera? I think this a very interesting lightweight 8x10. It would be interesting to see how it compares to the Chamonix model. I wonder why there is so little information about it and it's manufacturer. Maybe the camera is known under a different name in china, and there is some information on the forums there(which could be translated by goggle translator).

Greetings,
pjotr

pjotr
4-Apr-2011, 19:30
Here's a long thread i found about it: http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=620511&pagenumber=3

if you can read chinese...

pjotr

cosmicexplosion
5-Apr-2011, 00:30
looks like a winner, have been looking for a field camera, and have been thinking that although the metal cameras are aesthetically challenged, they wont smash in a puff of wind.
so the idea has won me over but...a toyo @5k has knocked me over, and i cant seem to get back up.

so that looks affordable and about half the weight of a toyo

so am looking forward to hearing about your shoot.

how did it stack up?

Jrewt
5-Apr-2011, 07:21
Here's a long thread i found about it: http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=620511&pagenumber=3

if you can read chinese...

pjotr

I was going through that thread and stumbled upon this photo:http://www7.xitek.com/forum/200911/235/23561/23561_1257556742.jpg

What is that thing??

pjotr
10-Apr-2011, 15:51
you mean the camera?

its a hasselblad xpan.

p

Mike Stacey
4-Jun-2011, 18:55
I'm very interested in this camera. The usable lens list on the BH site leaves many lenses out. Is there a more complete review coming?

David Karp
5-Jun-2011, 09:29
Looks like an interesting camera. I like how the front standard folds down, but you still get the advantage of the Phillips design. Now all someone has to do is separate the front shift from the swing.

Seems like you could get closer than 155mm on the short end.

Ash
5-Jun-2011, 09:43
Looks like something I'd love in the 5x7 version

rknewcomb
11-Jun-2011, 07:55
When looking at the photos carefully I noticed that the focus track slides through a shorter "keeper" track attached to the bed of the camera. The focus track is held in place only by a short 3-4 inch metal piece up front with a dovetail inner shape. On the Chamonix and I think the Phillips that sort of piece runs the length of the bed, all the way back to near the focus knob.
Seems like the front standard and lens and focus track might sag downward at the front as the weight of it are extended outward - kind of pivot on a too short "keeper" at the front of the bed.
Any thoughts?

R Mann
11-Jun-2011, 12:50
Looks like something I'd love in the 5x7 version

They do show a 5x7 version on their website -

rknewcomb
11-Jun-2011, 14:03
On the pictures of the 5x7 you can see that the focus end knob of the extension track is up in the air. The focus track and the camera bed touch only where they meet in the front. That is where the short bracket block type part is located. Have to wonder how sturdy it is under the weight.

Nana Sousa Dias
12-Jun-2011, 07:56
I've read somewhere that this camera is made by Shen Hao.

Rod.F
15-Jun-2011, 20:12
I've read somewhere that this camera is made by Shen Hao.

I don't think so. Admittedly I am very new to LF, but I saw an 8x10 Wilderness camera on Hong Kong Island a few months ago. I spoke to the owner briefly, I recall he said that the camera is very difficult to get in Hong Kong but he had a friend/contact that helped him. I asked if it was related to Shen Hao but he said that it was made in completely different part of China - up north somewhere (not Shanghai, where Shen Hao is, right?).

ZoneIII
19-Jun-2011, 13:18
It looks like a nicely made and well-designed camera. But I'm surprised that you didn't 't know if you have enough bellows draw for your lenses. Did you check the specs before buying it? I did a quick search for it and came up with the specs instantly but it appears they make more than one version because I found two different maximum bellows draw. One has very limited bellows draw for an 8x10" camera and I would avoid it for that reason. Of course, that depends on what you are using it for. I'm also surprised that you are deciding between 300 and 360mm lenses because they are so close in focal length unless you are planning on using the camera for a single specialized purpose. The difference between 240 and 360 is significant but 300 and 360 is really splitting hairs. All else being equal, I would opt of the 360mm because it should have more coverage. That said, any decent 8x10" camera should easily have enough bellows draw for a 360mm lens unless it is made specifically for wide-angle work. After all, a 360mm lens is really just about a "normal" lens for 8x10.

Again, it looks like a very well-made camera and it's always encouraging to see new large format cameras being introduced these days.

http://tjohnstonphoto.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/ZoneIII
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/photocommunity/gallery/viewgallery.asp?n=3

rknewcomb
4-Jul-2011, 06:20
I would sure like to hear & see more about this 8x10 camera.

Tri Tran
5-Jul-2011, 22:00
I also emailed the company twice regarding the camera but no reply. Sounds like it's well made.

joica
20-Jul-2011, 21:46
Hi ,I'm a Chinese and i'm using wildness 810 III. I find a lot of people interesed in wildness here, but seems, it is a little difficult to get exact information over sea . So I registered , and very glade to share the information I konw.
Mr Gao, an engineer, I think he is retired now. He designed Wildness personally, and find help to manufacture the parts in a military facoty, so there are no packing , boxs , manual .......
Based on the feedback from about 40 Wildness users , Mr Gao refined and manufactured III version this year. It is a very steady camera( I use apo symmar 360 , sinaron 240), easy to rear up, easy to pack up, easy to use at all. I haven't found any big defect until now.
Mr Gao also design and manufacture sepecial version based on customer's request. ZoneIII mentioned he found a very limited bellows version before,I think it was for sepecial request.
Wildness already has 5x7 size.
Mr Gao is designing a multifunctional rear back, with which, you can take 4X10 , 5x8 easily. pls refer this picture.
http://www7.xitek.com/forum/201107/235/23561/23561_1309598652.jpg

Because I 'm not good at English writing , pls make do with what I wrote.If you have question , I will contat Mr Gao and reply asap.

Tri Tran
20-Jul-2011, 22:02
Hi ,I'm a Chinese and i'm using wildness 810 III. I find a lot of people interesed in wildness here, but seems, it is a little difficult to get exact information over sea . So I registered , and very glade to share the information I konw.
Mr Gao, an engineer, I think he is retired now. He designed Wildness personally, and find help to manufacture the parts in a military facoty, so there are no packing , boxs , manual .......
Based on the feedback from about 40 Wildness users , Mr Gao refined and manufactured III version this year. It is a very steady camera( I use apo symmar 360 , sinaron 240), easy to rear up, easy to pack up, easy to use at all. I haven't found any big defect until now.
Mr Gao also design and manufacture sepecial version based on customer's request. ZoneIII mentioned he found a very limited bellows version before,I think it was for sepecial request.
Wildness already has 5x7 size.
Mr Gao is designing a multifunctional rear back, with which, you can take 4X10 , 5x8 easily. pls refer this picture.
http://www7.xitek.com/forum/201107/235/23561/23561_1309598652.jpg

Because I 'm not good at English writing , pls make do with what I wrote.If you have question , I will contat Mr Gao and reply asap.

Hi,
I'm very interested in this camera for my Ankor trip. Please PM me or keep us posted if you have Mr Gao contact info ? I assumed he speaks English if not I will have my brother in law Hugo to contact him for me :) . Thanks a bunch.

joica
21-Jul-2011, 02:38
Hi,
I'm very interested in this camera for my Ankor trip. Please PM me or keep us posted if you have Mr Gao contact info ? I assumed he speaks English if not I will have my brother in law Hugo to contact him for me :) . Thanks a bunch.

His telephone number : +86 -15842065977. I think he can't speak English.

David R Munson
1-Sep-2011, 06:53
OP - did you ever do that video review of the camera? If so, please point me in the right direction! :)

Tri Tran
1-Sep-2011, 10:08
I will reveive the 8x10 Wilderness in a few weeks so bare with me , I will report after I have it tested. Stay tuned.

Mike Stacey
8-Sep-2011, 16:43
I purchased one of these cameras a couple of months ago and am, at the early stage, very happy with it. It's not the most solid camera in world when set up but I haven't used any other light 8x10 cameras before so I don't have any comparisons. The only comparison I have is with my previous Toyo 810G and that's a little unfair, stability wise. I like the fact that the back slides forward to enable accommodation of very wide lenses without having the rails in the image. I can even get my 90mm Nikkor 4x5 lens on it. GG is pretty coarse but I put a fresnel over it and it's fine. Also, the back is not reversible; this would be a very worthwhile modification by the manufacturer. So, at this early stage, everything seems fine.

Here's a couple of photos taken with it using a Super Angulon 165 and Portra 160NC...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikestacey/6064250615/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikestacey/6064215345/sizes/l/in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikestacey/6064215345/sizes/o/in/photostream/)

Roger Cole
8-Sep-2011, 17:52
Not reversible? You have to turn the camera up on its side to shoot a vertical?

That's a complete deal killer for me in any view camera. Reversible or rotating, one or the other.

Ramiro Elena
9-Sep-2011, 00:10
That can't be right. It'd be silly.

Frank Petronio
9-Sep-2011, 01:05
I went and looked at the web photos and the last photo shows the rear frame with the back removed. It looks like they built it as a horizontal-only camera, like the ultralight Phillips.

Yet if they intended this to make it simpler and to save weight, why didn't they make the entire rear frame and bellows smaller to match?

rknewcomb
9-Sep-2011, 07:20
Rumors rumors rumors.....
The back on the 8x10 Wilderness camera that I have in my possession is completely and easily reversible for horizontal and vertical formats. It is a very sturdy well made back on a very sturdy well made camera. It is a very modest sized camera for an 8x10 - feels more like a big 5x7 or whole plate camera.

Miguel Curbelo
9-Sep-2011, 08:09
Rumors rumors rumors.....
The back on the 8x10 Wilderness camera that I have in my possession is completely and easily reversible for horizontal and vertical formats. It is a very sturdy well made back on a very sturdy well made camera. It is a very modest sized camera for an 8x10 - feels more like a big 5x7 or whole plate camera.

Would you kindly tell us a little bit more about it?

pjotr
9-Sep-2011, 10:00
It seems like there are several 'generations' of this camera and it is still beeing improved, maybe the chinese gentleman that posted here before could tell us more.

pjotr

evan clarke
9-Sep-2011, 10:14
8 months!! the OP might be a troll..EC

Roger Cole
9-Sep-2011, 12:31
Rumors rumors rumors.....
The back on the 8x10 Wilderness camera that I have in my possession is completely and easily reversible for horizontal and vertical formats. It is a very sturdy well made back on a very sturdy well made camera. It is a very modest sized camera for an 8x10 - feels more like a big 5x7 or whole plate camera.

When someone who has one in his possession says it isn't reversible, that's more than a rumor. Of course it's a new camera possibly without any instructions and it's very possible he simply hasn't discovered how to reverse it, or that a reversible back was added to the design since his early model one was produced, so that's all good to know.

Thanks - puts it back in the realm of "possibly a really good buy for a new 8x10."

joica
17-Sep-2011, 16:47
I took 3 pics for my wildness III , to show how to change the back frame position for horizontal and vertical formats.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=61338&stc=1&d=1316302382
slide the module I highlighted in the pic , then you can take of the back ground glass frame.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=61341&stc=1&d=1316302990

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=61342&stc=1&d=1316303181

joica
17-Sep-2011, 17:06
in version IV , wildness use fresnel & focus combined acrylic screen, and make a alu case for long-distance shipping.
pls refer to this pic:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=61343&stc=1&d=1316303944

David R Munson
17-Sep-2011, 21:12
Pssssssst! Link doesn't work!

joica
18-Sep-2011, 05:34
http://www7.xitek.com/forum/201108/235/23561/23561_1313561502.jpg

joica
18-Sep-2011, 05:35
http://www7.xitek.com/forum/201108/235/23561/23561_1313561225.jpg

akfreak
18-Sep-2011, 10:50
PSSSST again! Those boxes aren't working either

joica
19-Sep-2011, 17:46
61411

61412

mortensen
21-Sep-2011, 16:10
So... I can't remember... does this fine camera have zero detents for front swing? I assume it's the same knob that locks swing and shift, right? Does it have anything to guide you in keeping the standards parallel - also when applying shifts?

thanks...

joica
22-Sep-2011, 06:34
So... I can't remember... does this fine camera have zero detents for front swing? I assume it's the same knob that locks swing and shift, right? Does it have anything to guide you in keeping the standards parallel - also when applying shifts?

thanks...

wildness has zero detents and zero marks on front and back frame, and a zero mark for shift.
on front standard, there are 3 knobs , one locks swing , one locks shift , the left locks tilt.
zero marks can guide u in keeping the standards parallel.

thanks

mortensen
22-Sep-2011, 09:17
okay... so it doesn't have a dedicated zero detent for front swing (not tilt), right? It only has markings for 'zero' and no mechanical 'zero'? Likewise for shifts (and not rise/fall), I understand you as there is only markings and nothing mechanical to ensure parallel standards.

Not that I'm about to buy an 8x10, but this would really be a show stopper for me. It really puzzles me why they manufacture otherwise nice and great cameras (I'm thinking of Chamonixs as well, here) and leave out such an important feature. If you are careful, yes, most exposures will be great, but inevitably some of your shots - and possibly some of the really great ones - will be ruined by uneven focus.
Give us version IV with zero detents on EVERYTHING :)

Brian Ellis
22-Sep-2011, 13:42
okay... so it doesn't have a dedicated zero detent for front swing (not tilt), right? It only has markings for 'zero' and no mechanical 'zero'? Likewise for shifts (and not rise/fall), I understand you as there is only markings and nothing mechanical to ensure parallel standards.

Not that I'm about to buy an 8x10, but this would really be a show stopper for me. It really puzzles me why they manufacture otherwise nice and great cameras (I'm thinking of Chamonixs as well, here) and leave out such an important feature. If you are careful, yes, most exposures will be great, but inevitably some of your shots - and possibly some of the really great ones - will be ruined by uneven focus.
Give us version IV with zero detents on EVERYTHING :)

Of the 10 or so different brands of LF cameras I've owned I can't offhand think of any that had detents for swing (maybe I'm forgetting one because I don't use swing very often but I don't think so). I don't recall ever losing a photograph because the front and rear standards weren't parallel.

Roger Cole
22-Sep-2011, 15:11
Of the 10 or so different brands of LF cameras I've owned I can't offhand think of any that had detents for swing (maybe I'm forgetting one because I don't use swing very often but I don't think so). I don't recall ever losing a photograph because the front and rear standards weren't parallel.

I use it little enough that I had to check out my Tech III to be sure, but it does snap into a zero detent for front swing. Like you I can't recall ever losing an image because standards weren't parallel when I wanted them to be so.

Sal Santamaura
22-Sep-2011, 19:01
...It really puzzles me why they manufacture otherwise nice and great cameras (I'm thinking of Chamonixs as well, here) and leave out such an important feature...Probably because it's not that important to many users, who place greater value on the simplicity, lightness and rigidity that such constructions permit.

Now, why Chamonix doesn't include a handle, that puzzles me. :)

Oren Grad
22-Sep-2011, 20:02
Now, why Chamonix doesn't include a handle, that puzzles me. :)

+1

mortensen
22-Sep-2011, 22:33
well, I found that using a heavy wide angle lens, which is more sensitive to subtle swing, occasionally left me with slightly uneven focus across the frame. Probably because I unintendedly have wiggled the front standard a little bit while composing with front rise. Nothing dramatic that you would notice on the neg, but a decrease of quality that could easily have been avoided... either by a simple zero detent or me using excessive force to lock the front. I know what I will choose in the future.

Lachlan 717
22-Sep-2011, 22:53
well, I found that using a heavy wide angle lens, which is more sensitive to subtle swing, occasionally left me with slightly uneven focus across the frame. Probably because I unintendedly have wiggled the front standard a little bit while composing with front rise. Nothing dramatic that you would notice on the neg, but a decrease of quality that could easily have been avoided... either by a simple zero detent or me using excessive force to lock the front. I know what I will choose in the future.

Wouldn't any issue show up less with a wide angle, given the inherent greater DOF? (Maybe it was mounted in a recessed board?)

mortensen
22-Sep-2011, 23:59
nope, the shorter lens-to-film distance, the more sensitive it will be to the scheimpflug rule (at least thats how I have understood it). Hence, with wider lenses parallel standards really need to be parallel. Depth of field and depth of focus are not interchangable.

GPS
23-Sep-2011, 01:00
Probably because it's not that important to many users, who place greater value on the simplicity, lightness and rigidity that such constructions permit.

Now, why Chamonix doesn't include a handle, that puzzles me. :)

Zero detents don't take away anything from camera's lightness or rigidity. The fact that they are missing on the camera in question has more to do with manufacturing costs. It's cheaper not to bother with them.
The lack of a handle on Chamonix can be just a decision to boast a lighter camera - at least on paper - beside the fact of manufacturing costs again. It's called cutting corners.

GPS
23-Sep-2011, 01:03
nope, the shorter lens-to-film distance, the more sensitive it will be to the scheimpflug rule (at least thats how I have understood it). Hence, with wider lenses parallel standards really need to be parallel. Depth of field and depth of focus are not interchangable.

That's correct, it's a question of geometry. Therefore those who buy cameras with extreme wide angle lenses capabilities should check if the camera has more to allow them than just bag bellows...:)

rdenney
23-Sep-2011, 08:41
Wouldn't any issue show up less with a wide angle, given the inherent greater DOF? (Maybe it was mounted in a recessed board?)

Actually, wide angle lenses are pickier. Think of it this way: A 2" lens goes from infinity to 1:1 in two inches of focus travel. A 12" lens goes from infinity to 1:1 in a foot of focus travel. The 2" lens moves less far for a given change in focus. Thus, focus precision must therefore be greater for shorter lenses.

And it's true that less tilt does the same work. Let's consider a picture of the surface of a rocky beach. The lens board plane will have to intersect the ground at the same point as the film plane to tilt the focus plane to run along the surface. If the camera is three feet off the ground, the tilt for a 2" will have an angle of 2/36 (expressed as a gradient for clarity). That 2" lens on a 4x5 camera does the same thing as a 4" lens on 8x10. The 4" lens will have to be tilted at an angle of 4/36. So, for the same effect on the focus plane, a short lens needs more precision in tilts and swings than a long lens. And 8x10 cameras are easier to use without precision movements than 4x5 or medium-format cameras.

Rick "noting that short lenses are less forgiving of film curl, too" Denney

mortensen
24-Sep-2011, 01:33
... and from reading posts in here for a couple of years it seems, that most of you like separate controls for rise and tilt - or at least zero detents for tilts, when using rise/fall... why not the same for swing and shift then? same thing, different axis...

GPS
24-Sep-2011, 01:41
... and from reading posts in here for a couple of years it seems, that most of you like separate controls for rise and tilt - or at least zero detents for tilts, when using rise/fall... why not the same for swing and shift then? same thing, different axis...

I think the reason is a mechanical one. While doing tilts you need to hold the rise value with your hand in the non separate version of cameras. But making swings does not disturb the shift in the same way - the slight difference is perhaps the answer.

Sal Santamaura
24-Sep-2011, 07:46
...why not the same for swing and shift then? same thing, different axis...Probably because, for most of us, swing and shift are rarely used. :)

rknewcomb
26-Sep-2011, 15:56
In the Wilderness 8x10 camera, on the base of the front standard, there is a small notch that centers the front standard left and right. Marks on the bed for zero swing.

Lachlan 717
26-Sep-2011, 16:38
Does this take Sinar sized bellows?

Marizu
25-Oct-2011, 08:35
their numbers alone would support the idea that within a generation they will produce giants of photography that may well rival the greatest American, British and French photographers; China has spectacular geography, and has so many people and stories, that it almost can't be helped.
I'm guessing that they already do!
I just can't type the names in to search for them.

I'm certain that there are a load of guys that surpass the Dusseldorf school photographers (Hoefer, Ruff, Struth et al) but because we can't read the abstracts about their bodies of work, we just think that they are boring snapshots :D

(This is only a joke. I love contemporary fine art)

The camera looks great BTW.

joica
26-Oct-2011, 04:13
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoptic
their numbers alone would support the idea that within a generation they will produce giants of photography that may well rival the greatest American, British and French photographers; China has spectacular geography, and has so many people and stories, that it almost can't be helped.

Hi Myoptic:
I didn't want to reply on this topic before, but I really don't think most foreigners understand China and Chinese well.

It is very difficult for Chinese people use their ability to its full potential, although China has a big population.
If u have a chance to live in China for a long time, pls pay attention to our bureaucracy, average salary level , real estate price, price level , education system, law system,etc.. U will get the answer.
I convince that, if our system become more healthy(I wish), we will produce giants in many aeras.
tks

ashlee52
27-Oct-2011, 09:55
Hugo Zhang tells me that Chamonix has sold several thousand 4x5's in the domestic Chinese market. They are selling large format cameras at a quicker pace than Deardorff ever did.

Now it is true that for generations many/most of all still and video cameras were made in Japan, a huge percentage was sold there, and less great art (and particularly film/video) has come from there than you might expect.

But my bet is on the Chinese to amaze us... and hopefully keep the world producing large format film.

motionbroker
9-Nov-2011, 23:46
Greetings all

I am a new member of this forum and returning to the world of LF photography after a long absence.

I used a toyo 45 AR extensively in China many years ago, spending a great deal of time in the mountains and had a lot of experience working with that device in very harsh conditions.

I have spent the last 15 years building up an architectural practice and I am now really feeling the urge to get back to doing some large format shooting. I have decided to really take the plunge and go with an 8X10 setup. My office has an epson stylus pro 9600 and the quality for large prints is pretty great. I figure with 8X10 originals it would be awesome.

I am strongly considering the Wilderness 8X10 and would really love to communicate with a current owner of one to get some advice and impressions about tripods / lens choices etc. Anyone out there willing to let me give them a call? Would be more efficient for both sides to have a quick chat rather than extended forum posting.

If there is a kind soul out there willing to help, please PM me a good contact number and a local time good to chat.

Thanks and best regards,

Dennis

https://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/photo.php?fbid=10150340585469150&set=a.10150340585159150.343868.626894149&type=1&theater

duff photographer
14-Nov-2011, 06:11
18-Oct-2011, 14:56
Gao Ying Chau
This message has been deleted by Ralph Barker. Reason: English only, please


Is this Mr Gao, the maker of the camera in question? If so, there could have been some very interesting information.

It would have been good to allow him to post and then have someone interpret it or at least run it through Google Translate as a one-off thing.

Steve.

joica
15-Nov-2011, 05:48
Is this Mr Gao, the maker of the camera in question? If so, there could have been some very interesting information.

It would have been good to allow him to post and then have someone interpret it or at least run it through Google Translate as a one-off thing.

Steve.

Hi steve:
If you want to contact Mr Gao directly , pls write email to him
gyz50004177@yahoo.com.cn and cc to me : joica@163.com I will translate to both sides.

thanks

Sdrubansky
15-Nov-2011, 07:44
Hello,

My intrest in the Wilderness camera has drawn me to this thread.
Would like to note that I've posted messages and received replies
in Italian and not had the posts deleted.

(They were short puns and maybe I got away with it, but still)

Thanks to all who posted pictures and info on the camera,
Mat

EOTS
13-Jul-2012, 02:42
I'm also interested in the camera.

How is the stability / rigidity of the Wilderness compared to a Toyo 810M?

Has somebody already tested the latest incarnation (version IV)?

Best regards,
Martin

Curt
13-Jul-2012, 16:29
I would like to have Mr. Gao make an 11X14" camera with 36" bellows and a reversible back.

我想有高先生“摄像头36”波纹管和一个可逆回11X14。

Curt

Tri Tran
15-Jul-2012, 06:17
Great camera and design but is a it heavy because its all made with metal . I use it on daily basic . I will bring it to Jim's show on Saturday for who wants to see it .

Former Member 27732
3-Mar-2013, 04:14
Does the Wilderness have an interchangeable bellows? Is there a W/A bellows option? Couldn't see one on the web site.
And if anyone is using a 90mm lens with this camera, can you get it centred on the top and bottom half (4x10) of the gg?
/Frank..

asmariglia
20-Jul-2013, 12:46
i hope to see some pics about this camera in action

evan clarke
20-Jul-2013, 16:03
Hard to beat the Chams..


Great camera and design but is a it heavy because its all made with metal . I use it on daily basic . I will bring it to Jim's show on Saturday for who wants to see it .

EOTS
12-Sep-2014, 08:41
Hi,

I'd like to share two videos I stumbled upon,
which are perhaps also of interest to other people who wanna learn about this camera:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIz4jMLabHo ("Wilderness V 10x8 camera overview" by Dave Smith)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGZEWMDUn9Y ("Wilderness V 8x10 camera movements" by Dave Smith)

Best regards,
Martin

Ari
12-Sep-2014, 08:52
Great camera and design but is a it heavy because its all made with metal . I use it on daily basic . I will bring it to Jim's show on Saturday for who wants to see it .

I don't mind the weight of the Toyo 810M because it is such a solid, stable camera.
If rigidity of the Wilderness were shown to be on a par with the Toyo, I would consider the Wilderness, and shave a few pounds from my case.

Martin, I just watched the videos, thank you for posting them.
The camera looks solid enough, but it also looks bulkier than the 810M, which I didn't think was possible.
Still, it's great to see someone manufacture an all-metal 8x10 camera these days.

hoffner
12-Sep-2014, 13:46
Zero detents don't take away anything from camera's lightness or rigidity. The fact that they are missing on the camera in question has more to do with manufacturing costs. It's cheaper not to bother with them.
The lack of a handle on Chamonix can be just a decision to boast a lighter camera - at least on paper - beside the fact of manufacturing costs again. It's called cutting corners.

Common sense goes long way in life, Mr. GPS. I like yours. :)