Filters... Heliopan v. B+W... which is better?

[Leigh]

I have limited experience with filters, most such work being with Hasselblad and the Hasselblad filters.

Which brand (in the title or others) would you consider best from an overall quality standpoint?

This is in the context of black & white contrast manipulation. I don't shoot color.

TIA

- Leigh

[Eric Woodbury]

I like 4x4 polyester and gels. Fit everything, cheaper, work better with wide angle lenses. Lee filter makes a universal holder.

[Bob Salomon]

Heliopan SH-PMC coatings reduce reflections to below 0.2% and repel dust and moisture. Heliopan uses thin brass, black anodized rings with front threads on their UV and B&W and warming and cooling filters. Their polarizers are the most neutral in the industry and are available with or without front threads. Their new HT Cir Pol passes 25% more light then a regular circular polarizer with the same effect. Their continuously variable ND filter goes from 0.3 to 1.8 density with no color shifts.

Now compare this to any other filters. Make sure to check how well it combats reflections.

[Oren Grad]

Something to chew on:

http://www.lenstip.com/113.1-article-UV_filters_test_Introduction.html

[Leigh]

Something to chew on:
Hi Oren,

Thanks for that link (although I don't pay for filters in Polish złoty).

I'm surprised and somewhat disappointed by the performance of the Heliopan filters. I had expected better from them.

Bob, you might want to review those test results, particularly as regards flare.

- Leigh

[Darin Boville]

Hmmmm. Heliopan didn't do so well in the lenstip tests that Oren linked to. From the summary:

"We were very disappointed with the Heliopan products. The German filters are not only very expensive, but they also presented very mediocre optical parameters."

Thoughts?

--Darin

[Bob Salomon]

Hmmmm. Heliopan didn't do so well in the lenstip tests that Oren linked to. From the summary:

"We were very disappointed with the Heliopan products. The German filters are not only very expensive, but they also presented very mediocre optical parameters."

Thoughts?

--Darin

Maybe you want to try the Foto Magazin test from Sept. 01 which went head to head with:
heliopan
B+W
Leica
Minolta
Hoya Pro 1
Hama Wide
Nikon
Canon
Rodenstock
Contax
Tiffen
Hama Silver
Rowi
Soligor
Doerr
Cokin
Pentax

This one. among other criteria, compared resolution with and without on the same test subject.

[Brian Ellis]

I've used those two brands of filters as well as Tiffien, Hoya, and probably others I don't now remember. To tell you the truth I can't say I've ever noticed that the filter brand makes any noticeable difference. But I usually buy B+W filters on the theory that even if they're no better than any others they're probably no worse either. And many of my B+W filters do have a nice, solid feel that I don't find in Tiffen and Hoya.

[Sal Santamaura]

Something to chew on:

http://www.lenstip.com/113.1-article-UV_filters_test_Introduction.htmlUseful data. I'd temper them with knowledge that only B+W and Heliopan (I think) use brass for their filter rings. Just one filter galled to an aluminum lens' threads might be enough to convince you the higher price of B+W was worth it. :)

[Leigh]

... only B+W and Heliopan (I think) use brass for their filter rings.
The product listings on the B&H website way that they both use brass rings and Schott glass.

- Leigh

[Sal Santamaura]

The product listings on the B&H website way that they both use brass rings and Schott glass.

- LeighSorry for not being sufficiently clear. I knew Heliopan uses brass rings. My awkward sentence was meant to communicate the probability, but not certainty, that all other brands tested use aluminum rings.

[Bob Salomon]

Useful data. I'd temper them with knowledge that only B+W and Heliopan (I think) use brass for their filter rings. Just one filter galled to an aluminum lens' threads might be enough to convince you the higher price of B+W was worth it. :)

Sal,

There will be another German brand later this year and B+W also makes a series of ALU filters with aluminum rings. There is at least one Japanese brand that also uses brass rings on some of their filters. The ALU series of filters is not offered in all of their markets however.

As far as we know Heliopan is the only manufacturer who only uses brass for their screw-in filter mounts and the majority of their stepping rings as well as the only filter manufacturer who only uses glass from Schott exclusively. The exception to brass rings from Heliopan would be bayonet mounts and very large difference stepping rings as brass would make them too heavy.

[Armin Seeholzer]

I know the filter test which Bob mention and I belive more to the Foto mag Filter test they did it with a very expensive MTF Test machine which cost as much as a big house!
And B&W and Heliopan and Leica and also Canon was very good Hoya was only in the middle field and for the other test with only Polfilter the Hoya was almost at the end means the worst!
And yes I was never happy with the sharpness of my Hoya Polfilter and switched to B&W and Heliopan and I'm do not loose any sharpness anymore!!!

Cheers Armin

[Armin Seeholzer]

How do the Singh-Ray filters compare? Especially their polarizing filters?

I think they did not even exist at that time the test was done maybe around 1998 or of course would not have been on this test!
If I remember correctly the Cokin was the worst I think in therms of sharpness!

Cheers Armin

[Bill_1856]

I don't think that there's anything to choose between them except their prices.

[Leigh]

I know the filter test which Bob mention and I belive more to the Foto mag Filter test they did it with a very expensive MTF Test machine which cost as much as a big house!
I have two problems with the Foto mag test.
1) It's ten years old; and
2) MTF tests tell you nothing about reflections. You could also argue that they're not meaningful for planar elements like filters, but only for imaging optics like lenses.

- Leigh

[Bob Salomon]

I have two problems with the Foto mag test.
1) It's ten years old; and
2) MTF tests tell you nothing about reflections. You could also argue that they're not meaningful for planar elements like filters, but only for imaging optics like lenses.

- Leigh

The Heliopan and B+W filters tested were the same as the current ones that are available right now. Both were the SH-PMC and MRC coated. And, as I mentioned originally, the SH-PMC reduces reflections to the lowest in the industry.

[Brian Ellis]

I don't think that there's anything to choose between them except their prices.

That's pretty much where I come down too Bill, though I do buy B+W. But I've never done a real test of different brands except with skylight filters. I had several different brands of 67mm skylight filters - don't remember for sure but one was probably B+W and the other probably Tiffen or Hoya - so just for fun I put them on a digital camera and photographed sections of a 6'x8' oil painting that hangs on a wall in our house. I chose it because it's an abstract with lots of red, blues, and yellows (I was curious to see whether the filters created different color casts). I then viewed them at 100% in Photoshop and I couldn't tell any difference either in sharpness or colors. Probably not the most scientific test in the world and it wasn't done with film and I didn't make any prints but it was as much testing as I felt like doing.

I do remember that in the last issue of Camera and Darkroom magazine many years ago Joe Englander published the results of his extensive testing of polarizing filters. Different brands definitely produced different color casts though I'm not sure any were really objectionable, just different.

I also know that when I was taking workshops from him John Sexton used Tiffen filters and I don't think he has any commercial relationship with Tiffen. John approaches that sort of thing pretty scientifically and objectively so if he uses Tiffen they're probably o.k.

I wouldn't argue with anyone who claims their filter brand makes a real difference, it's just not something I've noticed in casual observation.

[patrickjames]

The most important thing with a filter is whether it is coated or not. You will only notice this though in the most trying conditions.

[Leigh]

The most important thing with a filter is whether it is coated or not.
I agree.

That's why I was so surprised to see the different results for the Heliopan and B+W filters in the lenstip review.

- Leigh

[Armin Seeholzer]

2) MTF tests tell you nothing about reflections. You could also argue that they're not meaningful for planar elements like filters, but only for imaging optics like lenses.
- Leigh

They tested not only the transmission, they tested color balance, vignetting and the test was done on one lens from Leica if I remember correctly. So the mesured the lens alone and them with the different filter in front!

Cheeers Armin

[Rui Morais de Sousa]

Hi all,
I am not sure if they are still in production, but I have been using Rodenstock glass filters for some years now with very good results. The rings are very well made and usually don't stick at all. Rodenstock also makes them in Slim Fassung, so they won't vignette.
I use several of them for light and color balancing and contrast control in BW. You can get them in big sizes too.
Greetings,
Rui
AL-MOST-LY PHOTOGRAPHY (http://ruimoraisdesousa.blogspot.com)

[Bob Salomon]

Hi all,
I am not sure if they are still in production, but I have been using Rodenstock glass filters for some years now with very good results. The rings are very well made and usually don't stick at all. Rodenstock also makes them in Slim Fassung, so they won't vignette.
I use several of them for light and color balancing and contrast control in BW. You can get them in big sizes too.
Greetings,
Rui
AL-MOST-LY PHOTOGRAPHY (http://ruimoraisdesousa.blogspot.com)

German branded Rodenstock filters are made by Heliopan. But Rodestock uses the older PMC multi coating on theirs rather then the more modern SH-PMC coating. The rings are the same as Heliopan's.

Japanese branded Rodenstock filters come from a totally different supplier and are not related to the Heliopan ones.

[Rui Morais de Sousa]

Thanks for the information Bob,
Although I could guess that they could be made by Heliopan, I had never heard of Japanese made Rodenstock...
Rui
AL-MOST-LY PHOTOGRAPHY (http://ruimoraisdesousa.blogspot.com/)

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks for the information Bob,
Although I could guess that they could be made by Heliopan, I had never heard of Japanese made Rodenstock...
Rui
AL-MOST-LY PHOTOGRAPHY (http://ruimoraisdesousa.blogspot.com/)

Which filters are sold in any specific market varies by the market. So it is very possible that the japanese made ones are not sold in Portugal. But they are all sold in Germany by Kaiser so if you check that web site you will see both types. The japanese ones are only available in UV and Cir Pol and maybe ND. Their german ones are available in many types and far more sizes.

[Oren Grad]

The japanese ones are only available in UV and Cir Pol and maybe ND.

http://www.komamura.co.jp/rodenstock/HRDF/index.html

[Bob Salomon]

http://www.komamura.co.jp/rodenstock/HRDF/index.html

Those are not the current version.

http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/en/main/news/filters-for-photography/

[Drew Wiley]

I personally choose skylt/UV filters according to how they affect the color balance as
well as sharpness of specific color films at high altitude. You need to learn from this
kind of field experience rather than just lab results. I might choose form Hoya, SingRay,
B&W, etc - always multicoated - or carry different ones if more than one type of color
film is in my pack. Black and white work is a little different. Once in awhile an aluminum
thread will freeze up on the lens at the worst possible time, so this is a secondary
consideration. Gave up on Tiffen many moons ago, at least for camera use - fog up
real easily due to lack of good coating, and sandwich construction affects sharpness.

[Steve M Hostetter]

I believe Sinar makes the best filters

[Leigh]

I believe Sinar makes the best filters
I didn't know Sinar was an optical company. They don't make their own lenses.

- Leigh

[Steve M Hostetter]

I didn't know Sinar was an optical company. They don't make their own lenses.

- Leigh

Yep, just google Sinarbron / accessories - filters

[Sevo]

Back when they still existed, Sinar filters were made by Formatt. High quality for plastics filters, and like gelatin, plastics filters have some advantages (like low dispersion). But they do scratch rather soon, so there probably aren't that many useful Sinar filters in reasonsbly clean surface condition still around. I must have some of the more outrageously silly CC filter values (like 50 green etc.) still somewhere about in mint state, as they were part of kits and directly went into storage decades ago. But all my more reasonable value filters have long gone to waste.

[Steve M Hostetter]

Hello Sevo,

Thank you for that info. I wasn't sure If Sinar made their own or not. Seems like I remembered them talking about quality control using a spectrometer in their catalog in regards to their filters ..
I can't find anything on them now they must have stopped carrying them