14x17 Chamonix

[Tri Tran]

A custom order 14x17 Chamonix just landed here today and still sealed in the box. Thanks to Wendy for a New Year gift. Also thanks to Hugo and Hass for another beautiful photographic instrument. The camera has an option of extra dark slide for the 7x17 format . The 7 1/2 in lens board has plenty of room to accomodate the Portrait Brass lens.Light weight and relatively small and compact. I will post some pictures later on , side by side with Hugo New 16x20 and 20x24 for your preview.

BTW. All this caused by the box of X ray film that Jim gave me to try. Beware!

[BILL3075]

Hey, Tri !

Welcome to the 'club' !

Bill

[John Bowen]

Hey Bill,

I was in VT over the weekend photographing. We visited Richard Ritter. I noticed a stack of various size backs and asked "What's that?" Richard replied, "Bill's pile."

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Yes, Tri I can take the blame for this. I just could not see using the 500 sheets of 14x17 film I got in my lifetime! I am a bad influence...... wait who has more cameras???? I'm looking forward to seeing it. BTW I just got the bellows for my 14x17 today!

[Tri Tran]

Thanks Bill, Jim,
I'm now officially a new member of 14x17. Here it is.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1700/78028017.jpg (http://img88.imageshack.us/i/78028017.jpg/)

With 7x17 dark slide ( optional)

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3059/80930479.jpg (http://img819.imageshack.us/i/80930479.jpg/)

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6821/89127871.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/i/89127871.jpg/)
with an 18 in Verito . Perfect for this format!

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8564/33899654.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/33899654.jpg/)

[Tri Tran]

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2442/18120706.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/18120706.jpg/)

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5103/21845439.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/i/21845439.jpg/)

71/2 in lens board with Sinar adapter board ( optional)

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/8127/17098675.jpg (http://img806.imageshack.us/i/17098675.jpg/)


These 14x17 walnut will soon no longer be available. There is 1 or 2 left as I ordered a few months ago. If someone consider this format I urge you to contact Hugo to secure the old price and the color. These are a few last Mohicans .

Again . Thanks Hugo and Hass. Happy New Year!

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Tri, my favorite wood. Walnut! Boy does it look nice! Can't wait to see it in person. I guess I should get back to finishing the back of mine now!!

[SocalAstro]

WOW! that is very nice - Congrats Tri.

-Leon

[dsim]

Oh my :) . Very nice camera. Congrats Tri.

[Vlad Soare]

What a beauty! :eek:

[Cor]

Stunning, but please place it on a stable tripod, not on that wobbly stool...:p

Best,

Cor

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Not to worry. Tri has plenty of tripods. I've seen them all!

[Robert Hughes]

All you need now is a 35mm roll film adapter...

[Professional]

Is it better to buy this camera and then buy a reduced back like 8x10 or just get 8x10 and forget this one? I really like so large camera i can get even larger than 8x10, but are there some films available for larger than 8x10 out there?

[Tri Tran]

Is it better to buy this camera and then buy a reduced back like 8x10 or just get 8x10 and forget this one? I really like so large camera i can get even larger than 8x10, but are there some films available for larger than 8x10 out there?

Jim, can you please explain for this one ? I'm off for a Lingerie coffee brake in Little Saigon right now. See you soon :)

[Michael Kadillak]

Looks pretty sweet to me. I am resisting the temptation as one more camera and I will be excised to the North 40 all by myself. The recent Deardorff V11 acquisition put me on notice that the Mrs. is starting to question my sanity. It did not help when I told her (honestly) that one must toss sanity to the curb when working with large cameras such as these.

[Michael Roberts]

Makes perfect sense to me!

Tri, congratulations on your beautiful new 14x17!

[Tri Tran]

Looks pretty sweet to me. I am resisting the temptation as one more camera and I will be excised to the North 40 all by myself. The recent Deardorff V11 acquisition put me on notice that the Mrs. is starting to question my sanity. It did not help when I told her (honestly) that one must toss sanity to the curb when working with large cameras such as these.

Among ourselves, I'd like to think that we LF and ULF are 'sane' people
operating in a world that is not quite ready for our line of 'sight' yet.
Like musicians and artists who are considered 'out of the box' thinkers or
performers, we are passionate about our art. My Mrs. think I'm nut; but she
said that if she had to choose between the "evils" that men are tempted
with, she'd rather have me locked up in a dark room rather than causing
trouble elsewhere.

[David Aimone]

That's a good woman you have there! Very perspicacious! Just looked that word up myself...


but she
said that if she had to choose between the "evils" that men are tempted
with, she'd rather have me locked up in a dark room rather than causing
trouble elsewhere.

[Michael Kadillak]

Among ourselves, I'd like to think that we LF and ULF are 'sane' people
operating in a world that is not quite ready for our line of 'sight' yet.
Like musicians and artists who are considered 'out of the box' thinkers or
performers, we are passionate about our art. My Mrs. think I'm nut; but she
said that if she had to choose between the "evils" that men are tempted
with, she'd rather have me locked up in a dark room rather than causing
trouble elsewhere.

The use of the word "sane" in this post was purposefully used completely tongue in cheek.

My wife has similar sentiments. What she is surprised about is the duration of this condition with ULF and how long it will continue - based upon the amount of sheet film that occupies freezer space at our house. She has a mathematics degree in addition to her engineering degree.

[Tri Tran]

Micheal, I use most of X ray film for my process . The freezer is no longer an issue for me except the 20x24 format . To avoid the freezer storage I usually order enough for me to use within 1-2 years.
And here it is as I promised to post 14x17 side by side with Chamonix 16x20 and 20x24

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1883/3camerafolded.jpg (http://img404.imageshack.us/i/3camerafolded.jpg/)

14x17,16x20,20x24

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1969/3cameratopdia.jpg (http://img708.imageshack.us/i/3cameratopdia.jpg/)

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7659/3camerafront.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/3camerafront.jpg/)

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7569/3camerafrontbellow.jpg (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/3camerafrontbellow.jpg/)

[Tri Tran]

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3706/3cameraprofile.jpg (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/3cameraprofile.jpg/)

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2537/4camerafront.jpg (http://img841.imageshack.us/i/4camerafront.jpg/)

8x10 Philip with Chamoix

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1526/4cameraprofile.jpg (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/4cameraprofile.jpg/)

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6674/3cameraback1.jpg (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/3cameraback1.jpg/)

[Allen in Montreal]

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3706/3cameraprofile.jpg (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/3cameraprofile.jpg/)



Wow!
Congrats on the new camera!
That is an amazing line up, you are blessed man (camera wise and wife wise!! :) )


..... My Mrs. think I'm nut; but she
said that if she had to choose between the "evils" that men are tempted
with, she'd rather have me locked up in a dark room rather than causing
trouble elsewhere.

[Tri Tran]

Thanks Allen.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7775/scrwesbed.jpg (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/scrwesbed.jpg/)

Chamonix needs to revise these screws for front standard mount . They often loosen and come out over time It is quite a challenge to put it back in.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/8837/14x17lockable.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/14x17lockable.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)A nice lockable back tilt zero position . Nice improved feature.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1458/doublebail.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/i/doublebail.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)Double bail for all model.

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6393/sschaholders.jpg (http://img842.imageshack.us/i/sschaholders.jpg/)

SS holder and Chamonix holder

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Tri, nice to see the entire line up. It sure was nice to see the 14x17 up close and personal the other day at lunch. That Phillips? Where did that one come form? Yes, if any of you guys want coffee in Little Saigon, I know a GREAT place to get it!!!! Tri, one of my favorite coffee bars. I should have made time after lunch the other day.

[Jim Graves]

Tri ... I have to know ... who is responsible for the beautiful flowers ... you or your wife?

Jim in Sacramento

[Cor]

Tri..

Any change seeing a image from one of your X ray negatives?

best,

Cor

[jb7]

Among ourselves, I'd like to think that we LF and ULF are 'sane' people
operating in a world that is not quite ready for our line of 'sight' yet.
Like musicians and artists who are considered 'out of the box' thinkers or
performers, we are passionate about our art. My Mrs. think I'm nut; but she
said that if she had to choose between the "evils" that men are tempted
with, she'd rather have me locked up in a dark room rather than causing
trouble elsewhere.

TT, if you decided to get into trouble, it'd be big trouble, and would probably make the news over here...

Lapsing into the vernacular- sick ...

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Jim, Tri grows the orchids. He has an amazing collection in his backyard. He tells me that it is an amazing site when they are all in bloom.

[imagedowser]

Eddie's wife grows some beautiful orchids.... no small feat here in the cold North East. I have 10 or so, must be a requirement for the environment... ULF lives.

[Tri Tran]

Tri ... I have to know ... who is responsible for the beautiful flowers ... you or your wife?

Jim in Sacramento

I would love the better half to have this credit but she does not have the green thumb. I do have an extensive Orchid collection and they are all blooming right now. My favorites are Lelia Ancepts, Dendrobium and Lilea/Cattleya


Tri..

Any change seeing a image from one of your X ray negatives?

best,

Cor

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9301/xrayf.jpg (http://img812.imageshack.us/i/xrayf.jpg/)

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7376/xrayprint.jpg (http://img251.imageshack.us/i/xrayprint.jpg/)

The X ray film base has some blue tint on the polyester base. It gives a nice tone & contrast negative for what Jim and I are working with. Just to give you an idea . Here’s the scan from my PS camera and sorry for the poor quality .
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8007/lith20x24.jpg (http://img651.imageshack.us/i/lith20x24.jpg/)


In this picture you will see the big 20x24 negative hanging from the ceiling. That Lith film was being used and exposed at 3 iso using Rodinal diluted to retain the medium contrast. The Platinum print was displayed far right corner.

[Cor]

Thank you Tri..which I could them live!

best,

Cor

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Well here are a few images of the finished 14x17 that I built. Took me 7 months. It is heavier than Tris and man is it big!

[Tri Tran]

Well here are a few images of the finished 14x17 that I built. Took me 7 months. It is heavier than Tris and man is it big!

It's beautiful Jim. It looks so different from the one I just posted. Have you tested it yet? Excellent work!

Here's one more from the show. Before and After!
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4452/jimcamera1.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/i/jimcamera1.jpg/)

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Tri, we ran out of time to shoot it. I was exhausted from the two days of finish work. Some tweaking still to do but it looks great. Thanks.

[Dave Wooten]

That is a beauty Jim!

[Jim Graves]

Jim ... what is the lens?

[cdholden]

The X ray film base has some blue tint on the polyester base. It gives a nice tone & contrast negative for what Jim and I are working with.

Tri/Jim,
Maybe this question is best asked separately, but I'll try it as a general question first. Do either of you find large differences in working with X-ray film to get desired results in Platinum or Carbon, as opposed to the typical panchromatic film used for silver gelatin prints?
I've been reading and am contemplating trying Carbon. X-ray film would certainly provide a cost benefit if the learning curve isn't too big.
Thanks.
Chris

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Chris, yes I find that my work flow changes using x-ray film for carbon. Sensitizers strengths for me are different than with my traditional Efke 25 negatives. I don't know exactly what causes it but I know how to print from the negatives. Takes a bit more tweaking to the work flow but the prints come out great. I had four prints in the show that were shot on x-ray film.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

That is a beauty Jim!

Dave, if I remember correctly you shoot 14x17 don't you? I love the image size.

[Tri Tran]

Tri/Jim,
Maybe this question is best asked separately, but I'll try it as a general question first. Do either of you find large differences in working with X-ray film to get desired results in Platinum or Carbon, as opposed to the typical panchromatic film used for silver gelatin prints?
I've been reading and am contemplating trying Carbon. X-ray film would certainly provide a cost benefit if the learning curve isn't too big.
Thanks.
Chris

It requires a little learning curve with the X-ray film. The TLC loading/unloading/handle X-ray film through the whole process is crucial. I used D76 and it gives a great contrast density,details for Carbon and Platinum printing compared to panchro film but not recomended for Gelatin Silver Print.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1596/tri2024.jpg (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/tri2024.jpg/)

Demo 20x24 Chamonix convertible back .

[cdholden]

I'll take a shot at Carbon in the spring when more free time comes my way. It sounds like I should stick with panchromatic film for starting out, but I'll definitely be trying X-ray film once I get the basics down.
Thank you both for your input.
Chris

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Chris I feel that this is a good approach. Lean the process with the film you are used to using and developing and then branch into x-ray film as there are some differences. Let me know if you have any questions when you get started.

Jim

[Tri Tran]

For your preview . This one taken with 14x17 Chamonix today . Vet X Ray film with 355 G Claron for this shot . The neg developped in the tray , came out flawless without any scratches that I noticed. Unsharped & unadjusted contrast scanned.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3176/14x17xray.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/i/14x17xray.jpg/)

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Tri, looks very good to me! Nice to know that box of film is in good hands.

[Tri Tran]

Tri, looks very good to me! Nice to know that box of film is in good hands.

You bet. Thanks again for a New Year Gift. Looking forward to this weekend.

[Cor]

Nice!

At what speed did you shoot, and how exactly did you process that X-ray film?

Thanks,

Cor

For your preview . This one taken with 14x17 Chamonix today . Vet X Ray film with 355 G Claron for this shot . The neg developped in the tray , came out flawless without any scratches that I noticed. Unsharped & unadjusted contrast scanned.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3176/14x17xray.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/i/14x17xray.jpg/)

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I don't want to speak for Tri but I will. He shoots the film at ISO 80 and tray develops one at a time in D-76. I know Tri will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong. 6 minutes is all it takes and you can turn on your red safe light and watch development! Cheap and easy ULF! What is wrong with that. I mean shooting 14x17 at $.50 a sheet.

[Tav Walraven]

Jim....I would like to try that film soon with my 12x20. I assume I would need to get some LARGE sizes if available as I have seen some like 24x24 or therebouts. Any suggestions for this size I need and if so, which one did Tri use for the above shot? Thanks............................tw

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Tav, x-ray film is not available in 24x24. The sizes as far as I know are 8x10, 11x14, 7x17, 14x17 and 14x36. Trying to cut it down is not easy and I don't recommend it. With emulsion on both sides you are going to scratch it no mater how careful you are.

The film that Tri used for the above shot is some 3M veterinary green sensitive film. I have a case of 500 sheets and I gave Tri a box of 100 as a New Years Gift. I have not shot any yet but Tri tells me it is very sharp and the negative looks great. I hope to shoot the 14x17 this weekend with this film.

[evan clarke]

Does the 3M film have emulsion on both sides?? I have a box of green sensitive 11x14 but just haven't had the chance to use it yet, Tri's looks very good...EC

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Evan, I have not used it yet but like all x-ray film it has emulsion on both sides.

[doublezero]

hello ,


"I have not used it yet but like all x-ray film it has emulsion on both sides "

Not exactly , some film as mamography film has only emulsion on one side , can be used for fingers or very small bones

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I stand corrected! I should have said all of the x-ray film that I have used has had emulsion on both sides. Might be something to try.

[Jim Graves]

some film as mamography film has only emulsion on one side , can be used for fingers or very small bones

Anything that is large format size??????????

[jkcz]

I use Agfa CP-V 8x10, 11x14 , green sensitive, emulsion only on one side. Maximum size is 14x17. Prices in Europe are higher than for 3M x-ray, 14x17 sheet ~3usd, but still significantly lower than for the ilford/kodak.

[evan clarke]

Evan, I have not used it yet but like all x-ray film it has emulsion on both sides.

I've just been holding back from fear of scratching but I have smooth bottom trays and Tri's scan looks clean so as soon as I can empty my holders, I'll give it a shot..after all, it's only forty or fifty cents a shot!:) Thanks..Evan

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I use Agfa CP-V 8x10, 11x14 , green sensitive, emulsion only on one side. Maximum size is 14x17. Prices in Europe are higher than for 3M x-ray, 14x17 sheet ~3usd, but still significantly lower than for the ilford/kodak.

Jiri, this is interesting. Do you buy the film new? What is the ISO of the film?

[jkcz]

Jiri, this is interesting. Do you buy the film new? What is the ISO of the film?

Yes, new. I´m rate film at 50 ISO, soup in pyrocat hd 1+1+100, drum development. Main advantage is one_side_emulsion, that allow me rotating development. Absolutely flawless emulsion.

[Tri Tran]

Dear Friends,
After 5 years owning the first version of the Chamonix 20x24 in Walnut wood and now is discontinued as you might know.Here's my new 20x24 Teak update version 2 just received today along with a blue case . A Ries tripod with a A250 head is ready for this new 20x24 Carbon Fiber bed .

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/1146/chamonix1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/chamonix1.jpg/)

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7323/chamonix2p.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/chamonix2p.jpg/)

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I love it! Now I have a 20x24 I can borrow! Just need to get film. $$$$$$ What is in the blue case? It says Schneider on it doesn't it?

[Hugo Zhang]

I love it! Now I have a 20x24 I can borrow! Just need to get film. $$$$$$ What is in the blue case? It says Schneider on it doesn't it?

If film is hard or expensive to get, just get a Chamonix 20x24 wet plate holder like Tuant and shoot 20x24 wet plate. :)

[Tri Tran]

I love it! Now I have a 20x24 I can borrow! Just need to get film. $$$$$$ What is in the blue case? It says Schneider on it doesn't it?
Anytime my dear friend Jim.
Here it is , it does look snobbery when I open the case :)

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1329/mailbn.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/401/mailbn.jpg/)


If film is hard or expensive to get, just get a Chamonix 20x24 wet plate holder like Tuant and shoot 20x24 wet plate. :)

Not necessary, there is Ortho film that we can use.

[Philippe Grunchec]

Splendid camera, I'm jalous!

Jiri, did you try to use Foma X-Ray films? I did... and liked the results, but hard to get here in France!

[photoevangelist]

I would love the better half to have this credit but she does not have the green thumb. I do have an extensive Orchid collection and they are all blooming right now. My favorites are Lelia Ancepts, Dendrobium and Lilea/Cattleya


http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9301/xrayf.jpg (http://img812.imageshack.us/i/xrayf.jpg/)

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7376/xrayprint.jpg (http://img251.imageshack.us/i/xrayprint.jpg/)

The X ray film base has some blue tint on the polyester base. It gives a nice tone & contrast negative for what Jim and I are working with. Just to give you an idea . Here’s the scan from my PS camera and sorry for the poor quality .
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8007/lith20x24.jpg (http://img651.imageshack.us/i/lith20x24.jpg/)


In this picture you will see the big 20x24 negative hanging from the ceiling. That Lith film was being used and exposed at 3 iso using Rodinal diluted to retain the medium contrast. The Platinum print was displayed far right corner.

Very nice camera(s) and work! Wish I could see it in person! The Lith film are you getting it from Freestyle or Ultrafin online? How is it compared to the xray film? I just purchased my first box of xray film and hope to try it soon. Never played with the lith films either.

[Tri Tran]

Very nice camera(s) and work! Wish I could see it in person! The Lith film are you getting it from Freestyle or Ultrafin online? How is it compared to the xray film? I just purchased my first box of xray film and hope to try it soon. Never played with the lith films either.

It's completely difference film. You have to test and fine tune your developer according the lighting condition for what you are shooting. You can order the developer at Freestyle for this application. The developer needs to be diluted in order to maintain the continuous tone and the shadow details. Xray is great too ,you can develop the film by inspection . I'm greateful that I don't have to order special run ULF film anymore for my workflow. Good luck !

[wiggywag]

Where is a good place to order X-ray film online? Please post some links :-)

[tenderobject]

http://www.flickr.com/groups/xrayfilmphotos/discuss/72157624086753301/


Where is a good place to order X-ray film online? Please post some links :-)

[wiggywag]

Considering the big price difference between x-ray film and conventional photo film, are we being robbed? Why do photo film increase in price all the time. Is the technology very different?

[wiggywag]

I use Agfa CP-V 8x10, 11x14 , green sensitive, emulsion only on one side. Maximum size is 14x17. Prices in Europe are higher than for 3M x-ray, 14x17 sheet ~3usd, but still significantly lower than for the ilford/kodak.

Is it as sharp as normal film like HP5?

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Is it as sharp as normal film like HP5?

If you use a sharp lens I believe it is. You have to decide.Test some it is cheap. Here is something to think about. If it is not sharp enough for you use it as a portrait film for some subtle added softness to a sharp lens.Works for me.

[wiggywag]

Any suggestion for which Xray film to be developed by inspection and with ABC Pyro developer? I love the freedom of tray processing and DBI. I use Lodima.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I DBI all of my work. The great thing with x-ray film is that you use a red safe light the whole time. I mean load and unload and develop. Mine never goes off during the whole process. I use Pyrocat-HD 1:1:100 for 6 minutes or so until I get the density I need for carbon printing. If you are using trays use a flat bottom tray for the developer or it will leave the narks from the ribs of the tray. Some people use glass to put their neg on I prefer a Cesco flat tray for all of my ULF work up to 14x17.

[wiggywag]

I DBI all of my work. The great thing with x-ray film is that you use a red safe light the whole time. I mean load and unload and develop. Mine never goes off during the whole process. I use Pyrocat-HD 1:1:100 for 6 minutes or so until I get the density I need for carbon printing. If you are using trays use a flat bottom tray for the developer or it will leave the narks from the ribs of the tray. Some people use glass to put their neg on I prefer a Cesco flat tray for all of my ULF work up to 14x17.

Can you do more than one neg a time, shuffling like say 6 negatives?

[wiggywag]

Can you do more than one neg a time, shuffling like say 6 negatives? I mean without scratching the emulsion...

[phillip2446]

this is great info for x ray film and ULF. love it.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

one negative at a time or you will scratch it. Why rush it. Really 6 14x17 negatives at a time??