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amonsul
30-Jan-2011, 02:40
Hi!


I need some help form you experts :)
I am looking for lense sthat can cover a image circle of 1.500cm. Schneider XXL lenses do cover a 900cm image circle but I need more.

Someone told me that I should loook for lenses that were used in analog copiers but I didn't find anything on eBay. Do you have any idea where I could fin such lenses?

Thanks!

P.S.: I need that lens for the following project:
cubestories.com (http://www.cubestories.com)

Dan Fromm
30-Jan-2011, 03:02
Interesting that you ask for directions to a lens you say you already have. "Inside the cube we have a giant lens that displays an image of 1,20m x 1,20m on a large plane."

There's a recent thread on the French LF forum that addresses the question. Here's the link: http://www.galerie-photo.info/forumgp/read.php?2,60406

Short answer, the participants came up with lenses that won't quite do what you want, also with some unfindable ancient curiosities. For them, go here: http://trichromie.free.fr/trichromie/index.php?post/2011/01/27/PERIGRAPHE

amonsul
30-Jan-2011, 03:14
OH yes we made alens for ourself but the image quality is not very good and aperture is not fast enought to portrait people. :)
Thansk for the links. Will take a look now.

Walter Calahan
30-Jan-2011, 06:21
If you didn't need to make portraits, I'd say ditch the lens all together, and convert the cube into a "Camera Obscura." Your huge pinhole camera would probably function more efficiently without a lens, but then your exposure times would quite long.

A very large "process" lens is what is needed if you want to make portraits.

The best example I can think of is the one-of-a-kind room size Polaroid camera used by Joe McNally to make portraits of New York City 9/11 responders. That camera use a lens taken from a U2 spy plane.

http://nyppa.org/mcnally_911

You might want to contact Joe for any advice he can offer. He's very helpful.

Richard K.
30-Jan-2011, 07:17
Hi!


I need some help form you experts :)
I am looking for lense sthat can cover a image circle of 1.500cm. Schneider XXL lenses do cover a 900cm image circle but I need more.

Someone told me that I should loook for lenses that were used in analog copiers but I didn't find anything on eBay. Do you have any idea where I could fin such lenses?

Thanks!

P.S.: I need that lens for the following project:
cubestories.com (http://www.cubestories.com)

Fantastic project, congratulations!

I seem to recall that Doug Busch used a 40x60 camera (I may be wrong!!) to photograph Chicago back in the 80s. Such a camera would have an image circle of 1831 if I calculate correctly, and a lens that covered it will cover yours. Doug Busch had a series of ULF lenses made (another avenue?!?) - de Golden Busch - some of which are still around but I don't know their coverage. You may want to contact him and ask him for advice:

http://www.superlarge.com/

Godd luck with your project!

jb7
30-Jan-2011, 08:39
What a wonderful camera- well done-

You often hear comments about the camera being no more than a tool,
and that is often true-
But a camera can be much more than that, as you've proved with this-

Hope you make it to Dublin-

I suppose you can set up a movable easel inside, and use that to focus?
I've got a big old Reconnaissance lens, 36", a telephoto, so only has a 500mm image circle- but at portrait distance, at 1:1, the image circle is more like 1.3m-
and because it's a telephoto, the back focus is only 1.4m at 1:1 - approximately-

It wouldn't be good quality, dof would be razor thin, and it only stops down to f/16-
but I suppose, if you want everything in focus, you have your Olympus Compact...

You sometimes see large process lenses for sale, but they can have really big asking prices-

amonsul
30-Jan-2011, 09:20
If you didn't need to make portraits, I'd say ditch the lens all together, and convert the cube into a "Camera Obscura." Your huge pinhole camera would probably function more efficiently without a lens, but then your exposure times would quite long.

A very large "process" lens is what is needed if you want to make portraits.

The best example I can think of is the one-of-a-kind room size Polaroid camera used by Joe McNally to make portraits of New York City 9/11 responders. That camera use a lens taken from a U2 spy plane.

http://nyppa.org/mcnally_911

You might want to contact Joe for any advice he can offer. He's very helpful.

Hi Walter!

First of all thanks for your help. I will contact Joe and ask him for help. Another known person (Adirano Lolli) suggested me to look for the lens from old analog copiers for architecture works. I dind't find any :(

Quick question. Which kind of paper did Joe use for that pictures?

Bye!

amonsul
30-Jan-2011, 09:26
Fantastic project, congratulations!

I seem to recall that Doug Busch used a 40x60 camera (I may be wrong!!) to photograph Chicago back in the 80s. Such a camera would have an image circle of 1831 if I calculate correctly, and a lens that covered it will cover yours. Doug Busch had a series of ULF lenses made (another avenue?!?) - de Golden Busch - some of which are still around but I don't know their coverage. You may want to contact him and ask him for advice:

http://www.superlarge.com/

Godd luck with your project!

Hi Richard! Many many thanks for your help! Let's hope Doug will help me ;)

amonsul
30-Jan-2011, 09:29
What a wonderful camera- well done-

You often hear comments about the camera being no more than a tool,
and that is often true-
But a camera can be much more than that, as you've proved with this-

Hope you make it to Dublin-

I suppose you can set up a movable easel inside, and use that to focus?
I've got a big old Reconnaissance lens, 36", a telephoto, so only has a 500mm image circle- but at portrait distance, at 1:1, the image circle is more like 1.3m-
and because it's a telephoto, the back focus is only 1.4m at 1:1 - approximately-

It wouldn't be good quality, dof would be razor thin, and it only stops down to f/16-
but I suppose, if you want everything in focus, you have your Olympus Compact...

You sometimes see large process lenses for sale, but they can have really big asking prices-

Hi JB7!
Our plan is to travel accross Europe to take pictures in all 27 EU nations. It's "a bit" ambitious I know but you should definitely come with us to take a picture!

Rod Klukas
30-Jan-2011, 09:57
The de Golden Busch lenses he used were built by 'Melles Griot'. They did have huge image circles. I know there were 750mm and 600mm and, I think, longer with very wide image circles. They are still in business so you might inquire.

Mark Sawyer
30-Jan-2011, 10:07
One possibility is to watch for old projection lenses. I found a 36" f/6 projection triplet that lights up a 4-foot-plus circle at infinity, and 24" lenses are fairly common.

Another possibility is using the long elements of a convertible lens.

Dan Fromm
30-Jan-2011, 10:46
There's a long-running debate among people who somehow create operas. Which comes first? The words or the music?

In this case, it probably would have been better, if not as much fun, to design the camera around a lens that the camera's makers/jokesters could find and afford instead of around a format. For ULF on a limited budget, first the lens and then the format seems better than first the format, then the lens.

amonsul
30-Jan-2011, 10:54
There's a long-running debate among people who somehow create operas. Which comes first? The words or the music?

In this case, it probably would have been better, if not as much fun, to design the camera around a lens that the camera's makers/jokesters could find and afford instead of around a format. For ULF on a limited budget, first the lens and then the format seems better than first the format, then the lens.

Hi Dan!
We first wanted it to use as a pure modular pinhole camera. Right now we are rethinking the whole concept and we will probably make a new "cube" once we know which lens we can use.

Bye!

jb7
30-Jan-2011, 11:39
God bless your patience...

You seem to be doing very well without taking anyone's advice, there's no reason to start now-

A project like this can only serve to popularize the whole concept of the making of large images, and should be able to help capture the imagination of the wider public,
although there will always be those who try to put you down, and seek to provide discouragement-

It seems you needn't be limited to a single format, or lens;
if there's enough space inside for three people, you should be able to position a focal plane wherever you want, whatever size you want.
I would imagine that a single exposure could turn out to be an event in itself.

Front elements, or single elements, as has been mentioned- that's a good idea-
The bigger Rapid Rectilinears, Aplanats, they'll work-
A single element off my Suter No. 6 is about 700mm, and lights up a big circle-
though probably not as large as you need.

Front element off a longer Dialyte, like an Apo Ronar, same thing- though testing will be necessary- and I'm sure there are others too.
And I know little about lenses, there are others here who could help more.

Since there are quite a few European posters here, who show off quite a few big lenses from time to time, perhaps they could try their lenses on your camera?
It might mean having to make some sort of universal mount, but that shouldn't be beyond you- and it might mean posting a schedule, so people know where to find you.

There is an annual photography festival in Dublin in the summer, dates not arranged yet for this year, but usually in July-
I'm sure the organizers would welcome an inquiry-

You might be able to contact them through this site-

http://www.photoireland.org/2010/

This would appear to be about Architecture as much as about Photography and Art, and should be able to pose more questions than it can answer-
and it looks like a great adventure-

Of course, it would be great if it could produce really great photographs too-

AF-ULF
30-Jan-2011, 11:55
For my truck camera, images 50x60 inches (127 cm x150 cm), I use a Kodak Red Dot, 35 inch lens. I unscrew the front element and use only the rear element. It has a focal length around 2300 mm. More than adequate coverage. Then lens is mounted in a shutter/aperture assembly, which is nice.

David Hedley
30-Jan-2011, 12:12
Hi JB7!
Our plan is to travel accross Europe to take pictures in all 27 EU nations. It's "a bit" ambitious I know but you should definitely come with us to take a picture!

Sounds great - please post your schedule on this forum.

ic-racer
30-Jan-2011, 12:24
I wonder what kind of lens this one had. The lens doesn't look all that big.
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/05/23/largest-camera-weighs-14-tons/

amonsul
30-Jan-2011, 13:39
I wonder what kind of lens this one had. The lens doesn't look all that big.
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/05/23/largest-camera-weighs-14-tons/

Our cube weights 250kg only! That's a progress ;)

amonsul
30-Jan-2011, 13:40
Sounds great - please post your schedule on this forum.

Will do that. I should open a "Cube-thread" where I put all news :p

amonsul
30-Jan-2011, 13:42
For my truck camera, images 50x60 inches (127 cm x150 cm), I use a Kodak Red Dot, 35 inch lens. I unscrew the front element and use only the rear element. It has a focal length around 2300 mm. More than adequate coverage. Then lens is mounted in a shutter/aperture assembly, which is nice.

I also take images of the same size! We are currently using a "piece" of an old projector lens. It's ok but not fats enough for portraits.

amonsul
30-Jan-2011, 13:47
God bless your patience...

You seem to be doing very well without taking anyone's advice, there's no reason to start now-

Thanks!



It seems you needn't be limited to a single format, or lens;
if there's enough space inside for three people, you should be able to position a focal plane wherever you want, whatever size you want.
I would imagine that a single exposure could turn out to be an event in itself.

Yes! To be honest we made it for fun, just to see how it would work. But once you see the camera and once you are inside it's simply...amazing! There are so many things we have to fix now and there are so many ways we can go to take a picture. We enjoy it a lot. The camera is modular and easy to transport and build.



There is an annual photography festival in Dublin in the summer, dates not arranged yet for this year, but usually in July-
I'm sure the organizers would welcome an inquiry-

I will contact them tomorrow! Thanks!

sanchi heuser
30-Jan-2011, 15:35
I see a very high potential in that amazing project.
May www.kickstarter.com help?

Best wishes
Andi

amonsul
30-Jan-2011, 16:03
I see a very high potential in that amazing project.
May www.kickstarter.com help?

Best wishes
Andi

But you have to be an american citizen to partecipate :(

sanchi heuser
30-Jan-2011, 17:10
Did you mean that:

"I’m not in the US. Can I fund my project on Kickstarter?
Currently a US bank account is required to start a project. This is a restriction by Amazon Payments, our payments processor. If you don't have a US bank account and are interested in starting a project, we appreciate your patience (we’re working on it!). Please note that anyone, anywhere (with a major credit card) can pledge to any project on Kickstarter."
(Quote from kickstarter page)

Che sfiga :eek:

Hmm, they write you need an US bank account.
Not that you need to be american citizen.
Or is that necessary for an US bank account?

Maybe there's a branch of an american bank in Italy and they can help?
When I look at Deutsche Bank and their engagement for photography...
I think they want to help you:)

Andi

eddie
30-Jan-2011, 20:52
series III Dagor 720mm.

i played with one once.....:)

amonsul
31-Jan-2011, 01:29
series III Dagor 720mm.

i played with one once.....:)


What's the image circle of that lens?

Dan Fromm
31-Jan-2011, 04:03
What's the image circle of that lens?There is no consensus about Dagors' coverage. Manufacturers' claims have changed over time and users don't agree.

Goerz' claim is 85 degrees. My friend Eric Beltrando has written a ray-tracing program that he uses to estimate how lenses perform. Using prescriptions from Goerz' patents, he finds that f/6.8 Dagors cover 60 degrees. See www.dioptrique.info

Other makers made Dagors, for example Berthiot's f/6.8 Perigraphe VI b. In 1912, Berthiot claimed it covered 95 degrees. Between the wars, 85 degrees. In the late 1940s, 65 degrees.

Buy one and find out for yourself.

Richard K.
31-Jan-2011, 07:14
Hmm, they write you need an US bank account.
Not that you need to be american citizen.
Or is that necessary for an US bank account?

I have a US bank account but it is a branch of my Canadian bank...

doublezero
31-Jan-2011, 14:06
Hello
some data from H Gaud

Zeiss Protar V 632 mm F/18,0 F/128 CI 1 302 mm AC 90

Zeiss Protar VII 690 mm F/18,0 F/128 CI 1 193 mm AC 80

Fuji Fujinon A 1 200 mm F/24,0 F/90 CI 1 153 mm AC 50

Nikon Apo-Nikkor 1 780 mm F/14,0 F/128 CI 1 263 mm AC 38 8 200 gr

Goertz Red Dot Altar 1 780 mm F/16,0 F/45 CI 1 191 mm AC 36 8 000 gr

Rodenstock APO-Ronar 1 800 mm F/16,0 F/90 CI 1 350 mm AC 40 8 000 gr

Zeiss Protar V 325 mm F/18,0 F/128 CI 956 mm AC 110

Richard K.
31-Jan-2011, 15:06
I think a 72" Red Dot will give you just over 1500 mm IC, but try finding one!! That, and your cube would need to be over 6' a side or you can mount the lens a few feet in front and bellows it!

John Schneider
31-Jan-2011, 15:23
I think a 72" Red Dot will give you just over 1500 mm IC, but try finding one!!

There were two on eBay within the last maybe 3-4 months (first I've seen in about five years), plus a 1800 Apo (Nikkor? Ronar?). Of course that inveterate glass hoarder Dagor77 sold two of these three ;)

amonsul
1-Feb-2011, 01:40
If someone has a nice lens to sell me let me know!

By the way. Adriano Lolli (http://www.adrianololli.com/) told me he could make the lens from scratch. He would need 6 months of work and the lens would cost me 15.000 Euro. It will cover an image circle of 2,5 meters!

If I only would have that money...some sponsors out there? :)

Lachlan 717
1-Feb-2011, 03:34
If someone has a nice lens to sell me let me know!

By the way. Adriano Lolli (http://www.adrianololli.com/) told me he could make the lens from scratch. He would need 6 months of work and the lens would cost me 15.000 Euro. It will cover an image circle of 2,5 meters!

Copal #0 or #1?

Dan Fromm
1-Feb-2011, 06:04
Copal #0 or #1?Ten gallon hat.

CP Goerz
2-Feb-2011, 00:17
http://home.earthlink.net/~photobook77/30dagor.jpg


You probably need one of these....;-)

Joe Forks
2-Feb-2011, 08:59
I need one of those Andrew! 16" please!

Louis Pacilla
2-Feb-2011, 09:40
How about another big coverage 30" lens.

Hers a 30"f6.3 plastigmat 18x22 @f6.3. Hard to get a scale of this monster.The 30" Plastigmat is about 9lbs & OD of flange is 7" yet kind of squat for it's weight & girth.
The lens next to it is a B&L Protar VIIa 20 1/4 f6.3 2x33 7/8" cells second to largest listed Hecac#28 . The VIIa is pretty impressive as well.

Dan Fromm
2-Feb-2011, 10:40
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/bauschlomb_4.html

A Plastigmat does well to cover its focal length. A 30 incher is a big lens with not that much coverage.

Steve Hamley
2-Feb-2011, 14:15
Or one of these...

Joe, Eddie has one for sale, 16-1/2"

Cheers, Steve

Joe Forks
2-Feb-2011, 14:58
Thanks Steve! I did see Eddies and it sounds nice, but I'll have to wait for better cash flow until I eventually and inevitably land one of those beasts - thanks again.

amonsul
2-Feb-2011, 15:11
Thanks all for your suggestions. Sadly I didn't find any plastigmat for sale on ebay- I found many goerz lenses but I don't know which one covers a large image circle.

If you don't mind ...can I aks you to send me the links to shops or ebay acutions with interesting lenses that might will fit for the cube?

Thanks!
By the way we did some shots lats weekend and I will add them tomorrow on cubestories.com
Bye!

amonsul
3-Feb-2011, 09:13
That's one of the first pictures taken with the cube:
http://www.cubestories.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/MG_3890-corretta_resized.jpg

Roger Krueger
18-Feb-2011, 19:22
For portrait use, remember that coverage increases as magnification goes up. Double at 1:1, right?

photojournalism
12-Sep-2016, 17:21
Hello!
The Soviet space lens Lava 3A is covering more than 40 inches. 800 mm f3.5 weight around 65 kg http://mariashin.com/lava/

154940